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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/3/2004 5:02:28 PM EST
Just curious about their capabilities, since it's likely they are to open up some serious whoop ass in the near future.

How many men can they have in uniform?

How many tanks, APC's do they have?

Combat aircraft and helicopters?

It looks like $$$ issues have really effected their overall quality. Some of their equipments appears pretty ratty and run down. But if they were to get really serious, just how many troops and combat vehicles/aircraft could they bring to bear on the Islamofascists?
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 5:34:24 PM EST
Hmmmm, guess not.

I'll search globalsecurity.org or FAS and see if they have anything.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 5:36:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Hmmmm, guess not.

I'll search globalsecurity.org or FAS and see if they have anything.



+1 for www.globalsecurity.org
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 5:40:29 PM EST
They can bust ass on imported terrorists!

Being from the Cold War era it is strange and comforting to say I hope the Russians kick some ass over this Muslim/terrorist thing!

Is history holds true their military is small as they work through a progressive period. Working out the bugs on the new system.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 5:43:57 PM EST
They're not going to be able to do shit. Their military couldn't be any worse off than if Bill Lewinsky himself were president of that pathetic country! They have no money for training, they are completely unorganized, and they still operate with the cannon fodder mentality. Look at Grozny-their conscripts were getting killed so fast, they could hardly replenish them!! but they do have some nice guns!
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 5:46:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By AZSherman1:
They're not going to be able to do shit. Their military couldn't be any worse off than if Bill Lewinsky himself were president of that pathetic country! They have no money for training, they are completely unorganized, and they still operate with the cannon fodder mentality. Look at Grozny-their conscripts were getting killed so fast, they could hardly replenish them!! but they do have some nice guns!



One wonders how the world would react to Russian tactical nukes used to obliterate terrorist training sites in Chechnya.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 5:49:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By Shi_Huang_Di:
They can bust ass on imported terrorists!

Being from the Cold War era it is strange and comforting to say I hope the Russians kick some ass over this Muslim/terrorist thing!

Is history holds true their military is small as they work through a progressive period. Working out the bugs on the new system.



yeah, it's weird rooting for the russians. as far as they're concerned, it just like ww2. we have a common enemy. i don't trust putin for shit. as far as their military goes, it's still a big hammer but it's not what it used to be.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 5:50:46 PM EST
Russia still remains the only nation on earth that can completely destroy OUR nation.

That said, their conventional forces have degraded significantly, especially in numbers and types of new systems entering service.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 5:51:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By kill-9:

Originally Posted By AZSherman1:
They're not going to be able to do shit. Their military couldn't be any worse off than if Bill Lewinsky himself were president of that pathetic country! They have no money for training, they are completely unorganized, and they still operate with the cannon fodder mentality. Look at Grozny-their conscripts were getting killed so fast, they could hardly replenish them!! but they do have some nice guns!



One wonders how the world would react to Russian tactical nukes used to obliterate terrorist training sites in Chechnya.




This is me --->

This is me turning a blind eye as I hear about Russian nuking Islamists ---->

- BG
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 5:51:59 PM EST
Right now, they are under-funded for their needs. If I was going to help anybody...

They have the capability to get the job done. They have a core military that is quite modern and effective. They also have a huge commitment to guard their border with China. Talk about illegal immigrants...
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 6:02:41 PM EST
I heard conscripts make up about 1/3 of their military -used primarily in the support roles.

Russia is working its way towards a leaner, all volunteer military.

They obviously have a ways to go, but it's in much better shape than it was during the first Chechen war.

Link Posted: 9/3/2004 6:05:34 PM EST
It's an entirely different situation now, but it depends on what Putin does and if he can withstand the pressure on him to act. Those dumbass Chechens have turned what was not that popular of a war into a Russian Crusade. Everything they did, from choice of target, to their actions during the situation, to the resolution, achieved one thing and one thing only: it awakened every single bit of anger the Russian soul possesses. The Motherland, the Orthodox Church, and most importantly, the Russians' love for their children were desecrated, and those are the three most important things in a Russian's life.

The Neutral Observer doubts that Putin will be able to withstand pressure on him to act decisively. To a Russian, decisively is synonymous with brute force. The Neutral Observer would not be surprised to see Russian reservists called up, and multiple heavy divisions committed along with strategic airborne and strategic air assets.

The Russians are not in good shape for a large scale military effort, which is why Putin and others will try to resist. It would stall the military reforms that are just starting to get underway. But none of that will matter to the Russian people and the Russian soldiers, nor will casualties. Plenty of Russian politicians will call for action, as will the entire Russian people. If you thought the Russians were brutal before...this time they will demand that it is finished.

Did anyone watch the Russian news feed on CSPAN earlier? Their comments were quite instructive as to the average Russian's reaction to this.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 6:39:57 PM EST
yah groznys gonna be flat this time... and i bet some gulags are gonna be reopened
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 6:48:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By kill-9:

Originally Posted By AZSherman1:
They're not going to be able to do shit. Their military couldn't be any worse off than if Bill Lewinsky himself were president of that pathetic country! They have no money for training, they are completely unorganized, and they still operate with the cannon fodder mentality. Look at Grozny-their conscripts were getting killed so fast, they could hardly replenish them!! but they do have some nice guns!



One wonders how the world would react to Russian tactical nukes used to obliterate terrorist training sites in Chechnya.



My close friend was in the Soviet Army, Spetsnatz actually. He uses the phrase "Bullet Meat" to describe this mentality. He defected in 88 to Israel cause they'd take him at the time. He lived there for a couple years before coming here. While not hating all Arabs, he is accutely aware that the Muslim is an animal and I agree.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 7:59:43 PM EST
I'm not sure that even Putin knows the answer

SpecOps types are probably damn capable

Heavy division Army for major rolling offensive,? although greatly reduced from years past and much disintegrating, they could likely beat most in the world. But we are about the only ones able to take our hevy forces to theirs and they probably can't move much more than a handful of divisions

TacAir probably around 5th in the world, StratAir, maybe a few squadrons at best, Airlift , in numbers probably second only to us. But I wouldn't want to fly in their birds. Air Defense again a few squadrons, and a fair ground missile capability, abliltity to field a mobile force protection capability, shaky.

Navy, with few exceptions, rusting away.

core professional groups aare probably very good, the rest is not adequately supported or supportable.

Conscripts - Reliance on conscription was one of the straws that broke the bear's back. By the early 80's most conscripts were not Russian speaking and mostly nominally or very Moslem. Training by beating is not a viable method and they are slowly getting away from it.

Strategic Arms - scary but I think they retain some ICBM capability, but the state and safety of weapons is marginal. Can they deploy tactically or strategially against targets in Central Asia, MiddleEast, yeah some. Enough? more than enough? probably.

If they decide to use, will they care about the fall-out released on the rest of the world? NO. Should we be concerned? YEAH

Can the Chechens awake the once mighty Bear? Yea, it may be an older and decrepit bear, but when it catches the jackal, the jackal will lose badly.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:06:30 PM EST
Supposedly they have been deploy new ICBMS.... But they assaulted CHechnyia twice before and didnt do well
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:18:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
I'm not sure that even Putin knows the answer

SpecOps types are probably damn capable

Heavy division Army for major rolling offensive,? although greatly reduced from years past and much disintegrating, they could likely beat most in the world. But we are about the only ones able to take our hevy forces to theirs and they probably can't move much more than a handful of divisions

TacAir probably around 5th in the world, StratAir, maybe a few squadrons at best, Airlift , in numbers probably second only to us. But I wouldn't want to fly in their birds. Air Defense again a few squadrons, and a fair ground missile capability, abliltity to field a mobile force protection capability, shaky.

Navy, with few exceptions, rusting away.

core professional groups aare probably very good, the rest is not adequately supported or supportable.

Conscripts - Reliance on conscription was one of the straws that broke the bear's back. By the early 80's most conscripts were not Russian speaking and mostly nominally or very Moslem. Training by beating is not a viable method and they are slowly getting away from it.

Strategic Arms - scary but I think they retain some ICBM capability, but the state and safety of weapons is marginal. Can they deploy tactically or strategially against targets in Central Asia, MiddleEast, yeah some. Enough? more than enough? probably.

If they decide to use, will they care about the fall-out released on the rest of the world? NO. Should we be concerned? YEAH

Can the Chechens awake the once mighty Bear? Yea, it may be an older and decrepit bear, but when it catches the jackal, the jackal will lose badly.



The Neutral Observer agrees generally with your assessment, although it's probably a tough call even for Russian generals.

Spec-Ops/Airborne - very good. About 5 divisions of Airborne, if The Neutral Observer remembers correctly. 3 in strategic reserve.

Heavy divisions - range from very good to very poor. Some divisions are made up mostly of contract soldiers (volunteers), and are considered the elite of the regular army. Some are mere skeletons, and only really exist on paper.

Tac air - have a few ok squadrons and some bad ones. They've been trying to shift to PGMs (as opposed to irons), but none of thier pilots get enough stick time.

Strat air - poor; last The Neutral Observer heard, none of their strategic bombers have PGM capability. Same problem with lack of stick time. They rely on missles more than anything else.

Airlift - they use what capability they have very well. It's more than adequate to support a Chechen campaign.

Navy - improving rapidly, especially the submarine arm. Maybe 100 operational boats (a guess).

Nuclear weapons - They still have the most in the world. Some might not work, but enough will. What is even more frightening is that Russia relies on nuclear retaliation as a defense against a conventional invasion. They know it is the only way they can defend themselves against China (mainly).

They have been pruning obsolete weapons, reducing the size of their forces, and have been attempting to go to an all-volunteer force. Progress is slow though, and a lot of their units are still made up of conscripts.
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