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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/12/2005 10:17:41 AM EDT
I am not saying Infantry wasn't a good thing for me, but at this point in my life I am starting to think about the future (possibly fed LE work) I am thinking MI would help me in the civilian world and also offer a nice change of pace from infantry.

But as a 2nd LT will I be stuck behind a desk the entire time?
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:23:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 10:26:11 AM EDT by MrsWildweasel]
What part of MI are you looking at? Hubby fixed computers,I did supply,friends of mine did computer programing, others were linguist. Then there's the other side of the house,interogaters,interpreters,etc. The Lt's that worked field station,basically signed for it and had to account for it before they left. Yes they sat behind a desk and pushed papers. There are alot of avenues you can take in the MI field. I should also add it was a unique experience.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:25:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:31:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
Anyone here have experience in Military Intelligence?



No, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:33:17 AM EDT
thats an oxymoron
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:35:00 AM EDT
Was investigated by NIS once
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:39:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
The TS/SCI is worth something on the outside.


Especially with a DLPT 2+/2+ or better second language.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:45:41 AM EDT
Your asking for Intelligence HERE




Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:46:27 AM EDT
The TS/SBI never did CRAP for me. Every place that cared about clearances wanted only a DOE clearance and didn't look twice at a DOD. That was one of the biggest lines I ever heard when I was in was about how much a clearance would help me get a job outside.
Personally hated being MI. Winey babies that were out of shape and thought that they were smarter and better than everyone else. Maybe it was a unit thing. It sure made my decision to separate alot easier though.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:47:30 AM EDT
The TS/SCI clearance needed for intellince is only good if you use it to immediately transfer to a civilian position after you get out.

I had the clearance for nine years in the Air Force but if you let it lapse it means nothing.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:55:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 10:55:42 AM EDT by rtech]
My ex wife was Army MI. My penis was the smartest thing that ever came out of her mouth.

MI pukes were a joke. Usually wrong about intel they give out or way out of date to mean anything or be useful.

Go MP or CID for a future law enforcement career. I wish I'd stayed in and went CID, now.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:03:55 AM EDT
Nope, but there is alot of Counter-Intelligence going on around here...........
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:41:38 PM EDT
Criminy, talk about some trash talking going on. Maybe a couple of you guys were MI, but it doesn't sound like many of you have much real experience with it.

I was MI. Here's the deal. Depends on where you go and what you do. One of our LTs started as a PLT leader and wound up as a CPT in 1 SFG(ABN). Most of my PLT LDRs were branch detailed out of something else, like Field Artillery or whatnot. We were really a hodge podge, but as long as I was tactical, I spent more time with my boots in the mud than I did as a tanker.

I reclassed from Armor to MI in 1990 because the Army was cutting down on heavy divisions. It was about six months prior to Iraq invading Kuwait.

Either way, depending on where you were and what you did, it made a big difference in what it was like. Being CONUS sucks. Working field station (strategic) sucks. Those positions are all politics. Having to deal with NSA people, well, it pretty much sucks. Again, lots of politics.

Going out in the boondocks and finding bad guys is fun. Seriously. I can't post some of the stuff we came up with, but some of it still cracks me up when I think of it, even though I signed a piece of paper that says I don't remember it.

Going out and playing OPFOR was a hell of a blast, too. I was on a team that got a lot of tasking to go out and "support" other units in field exercises. Most of our support involved figuring out their communications and then screwing them all to hell and gone. We did deception, meaconing, jamming, more deception (deception was the most fun). We'd have units come up on "stop buzzer" freq to ask us to stop because they couldn't accomplish their training. I was batting about .950 for getting units into MOPP-IV when they didn't need to be.

As far as the people who talk about "out of shape" and all, yeah, we had soldiers who didn't make standards and we got rid of them (Chapter you name it). We had to maintain the exact same standards as the rest of the Army and anyone who tells you different needs to lay off the crack pipe. Army Regulations are the same for the whole Army. The PT test is no different for Infantry as MI.

I really enjoyed being a tanker. But when I got medically discharged in 1996, it was the skills I learned in MI that got me a job, and I'm still in the same line of work.

If you do branch detail to MI, as long as you avoid strategic assignments, you won't be stuck on a desk. Stick with the tactical side and do fun stuff.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:51:27 PM EDT


I do know that MI overall went down a few notches when I left AD.

Link Posted: 9/12/2005 4:18:05 PM EDT

I am thinking MI would help me in the civilian world and also offer a nice change of pace from infantry. But as a 2nd LT will I be stuck behind a desk the entire time?


A1: It may for you and it did for me.
A2: No.

If I had it to do over, I would've done four years infantry and then moved to intel. I still did twelve years in infantry Battalions and Regiments anyway.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 4:24:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 5:53:03 PM EDT by FordGuy]

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
I am not saying Infantry wasn't a good thing for me, but at this point in my life I am starting to think about the future (possibly fed LE work) I am thinking MI would help me in the civilian world and also offer a nice change of pace from infantry.

But as a 2nd LT will I be stuck behind a desk the entire time?



as a 2lt in MI, you will be primarily the weather man at BN level - you will do something called Intel Prep of the Battlefield or IPB, you will assist in map overlays, you will participate in wargaming possible courses of action, you will recommend a course of action to the commander from the Intel perspective.
IM me for more.

I am aware of several intel analyst jobs in the civilian market. I know a handful of folks, civilians now, who work for local entities, as well as in certain agencies within the State Department.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 4:31:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 4:41:24 PM EDT by jkstexas2001]
A lot of what you learn at Huachuca and other places does not have a counterpart in the civilian intelligence work. For example, developing sources is different in MI than the way its done outside the military. As far as I know, in the MI school they don't teach you to write "Memorandums of Conversations" about dinner discussions with foreign generals or foreign government officials or corporate officers. The emphasis for MI intelligence gathering is very different than jobs in intelligence outside of the military, as alluded to above. It may get you in the door, but won't guarantee you a career. If you have linguistic skills, you might be able to go straight into a similar job once you get out of the military. Regarding MI folks being a lot of slackers, S-2's (I think that is the designation) attached to SF units would disagree. Marine Corp intelligence folks have to be able to shoot just like non-MI marines, with their "Everyman a rifleman" doctrine.

A great deal of the job is very routine, I imagine, except for what an earlier poster said about chasing down bad guys. Who knows, if you are REAL GOOD at what you do, you might get sheep-dipped, and have a job for life outside the military.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 4:38:59 PM EDT
i worked in the S-2 for about 6 months as an additional duty and the TS/SSBI opened a lot fo doors for me. i figure it adds about 15 to 20% to my civilian market value. the best thing about intel is that it seems S-2 ALWAYS has money for schools. and good stuff too. SERE airborne, mountain warfare. etc
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 4:54:50 PM EDT
yes, I was MI. I liked it, worked with a bunch of good people. It was a long time ago and things have changed I guess. I would do it again though.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:00:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Delta_666:
thats an oxymoron




+1
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:05:05 PM EDT
Every one I met as a Marine, they thought their shit didn't stink & they were as worthless as tits on a bull for being a Marine officer. They didn't know shit, couldn't do shit, couldn't think on the fly & unassed back to their little abode every time they got showed their ass by better field officers in junior grades.

As the other posters suggest, go CID or MP's, IMO.

My .o2
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:18:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 5:19:35 PM EDT by jrzy]

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
I am not saying Infantry wasn't a good thing for me, but at this point in my life I am starting to think about the future (possibly fed LE work) I am thinking MI would help me in the civilian world and also offer a nice change of pace from infantry.

But as a 2nd LT will I be stuck behind a desk the entire time?



I can't speak for the Army but I was attached to ONI for a while and I skipped a few steps up the ladder.
The guys I worked with were at the top of their game in every respect.

The best thing you can do is talk to some guys working in the CID and see what they say.
You won't find them in the officers club unless they working by the way.


Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:23:54 PM EDT
kk7sm,

What do I know. I only slept with my wife whenever I wasn't out in the mud playing soldier. She was 311th MI at Campbell. I forget her MOS, but she spoke Arabic/Egyptian, learned from DLI at Monteray. Our recon/scout troops did a way better job at intel for us than anything we got from 311th. They were like F-Troop.

My ex was lazy and worthless and the troops in her shop were even worse. She wasn't a very good soldier. Her 03 CO was nearly a perfect a$$, but I've never seen one before, so I'm not sure.

I got offered an MI slot to reup. It was not for me. I pulled the plug.


I still wished I checked into CID.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:33:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:
Every one I met as a Marine, they thought their shit didn't stink & they were as worthless as tits on a bull for being a Marine officer. They didn't know shit, couldn't do shit, couldn't think on the fly & unassed back to their little abode every time they got showed their ass by better field officers in junior grades.

As the other posters suggest, go CID or MP's, IMO.

My .o2



Funny, from what I've read, the folks in the Directorate of Operations at the agency think the same thing about those in the Directorate of Intelligence.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:38:01 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:40:16 PM EDT
never heard of it
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:51:28 PM EDT
Unfortunately, there are fat head intel types that think they're smarter than everyone else. What these self centered knuckleheads fail to comprehend is they aren't as smart as they think and everyone else isn't as dumb.

When I first looked into lat moving into intel, I got a big dose of that. I did my best not to come off that way once I entered the field.

Plenty of other occupations have these types in their ranks, too.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:54:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 5:57:52 PM EDT by livefree]

Originally Posted By kk7sm:
Criminy, talk about some trash talking going on. Maybe a couple of you guys were MI, but it doesn't sound like many of you have much real experience with it.

Very few MI people do what you did. They are mostly office puke analyst types. Imagery Interpreters in my unit couldn't even get Russian tank flash cards right.

I was MI. Here's the deal. Depends on where you go and what you do. One of our LTs started as a PLT leader and wound up as a CPT in 1 SFG(ABN). Most of my PLT LDRs were branch detailed out of something else, like Field Artillery or whatnot. We were really a hodge podge, but as long as I was tactical, I spent more time with my boots in the mud than I did as a tanker.

I reclassed from Armor to MI in 1990 because the Army was cutting down on heavy divisions. It was about six months prior to Iraq invading Kuwait.

Either way, depending on where you were and what you did, it made a big difference in what it was like. Being CONUS sucks. Working field station (strategic) sucks. Those positions are all politics. Having to deal with NSA people, well, it pretty much sucks. Again, lots of politics.

Sounds like we agree here

Going out in the boondocks and finding bad guys is fun. Seriously. I can't post some of the stuff we came up with, but some of it still cracks me up when I think of it, even though I signed a piece of paper that says I don't remember it.

Going out and playing OPFOR was a hell of a blast, too. I was on a team that got a lot of tasking to go out and "support" other units in field exercises. Most of our support involved figuring out their communications and then screwing them all to hell and gone. We did deception, meaconing, jamming, more deception (deception was the most fun). We'd have units come up on "stop buzzer" freq to ask us to stop because they couldn't accomplish their training. I was batting about .950 for getting units into MOPP-IV when they didn't need to be.

As far as the people who talk about "out of shape" and all, yeah, we had soldiers who didn't make standards and we got rid of them (Chapter you name it). We had to maintain the exact same standards as the rest of the Army and anyone who tells you different needs to lay off the crack pipe. Army Regulations are the same for the whole Army. The PT test is no different for Infantry as MI.
Half the unit/detachment had to report to remedial PT daily. The Army doesn't want to kick anyone out. Some of them wanted out but couldn't make it happen. My roomate used to celebrate his overweight status after weigh ins by going out for pizza. No crack smoking going on here.
I really enjoyed being a tanker. But when I got medically discharged in 1996, it was the skills I learned in MI that got me a job, and I'm still in the same line of work.

If you do branch detail to MI, as long as you avoid strategic assignments, you won't be stuck on a desk. Stick with the tactical side and do fun stuff.



Thats probably the ticket
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:55:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By livefree:
The TS/SBI never did CRAP for me. Every place that cared about clearances wanted only a DOE clearance and didn't look twice at a DOD. That was one of the biggest lines I ever heard when I was in was about how much a clearance would help me get a job outside.

You werent looking in the right places, then. DOD clearances only apply to DOD jobs, even then, only TS transfers between services, anything lower requires a new investigation (although its very fast) by the new service.

Kharn
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:59:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rtech:
My ex wife was Army MI. My penis was the smartest thing that ever came out of her mouth.

MI pukes were a joke. Usually wrong about intel they give out or way out of date to mean anything or be useful.

Go MP or CID for a future law enforcement career. I wish I'd stayed in and went CID, now.



LMAO

Link Posted: 9/12/2005 6:02:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kharn:

Originally Posted By livefree:
The TS/SBI never did CRAP for me. Every place that cared about clearances wanted only a DOE clearance and didn't look twice at a DOD. That was one of the biggest lines I ever heard when I was in was about how much a clearance would help me get a job outside.

You werent looking in the right places, then. DOD clearances only apply to DOD jobs, even then, only TS transfers between services, anything lower requires a new investigation (although its very fast) by the new service.

Kharn



I tried various places in New Mexico, Kirkland AFB, Sandia Labs, anywhere federal that they would take a resume.
Too late now.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 8:21:28 PM EDT
If any of you have an active TS/SCI or Secret and live in AZ, IM your resume pls.

If you were an 96D or 1N1 and your clearance has lapsed still IM me your resume pls.

Additionally, if you have a TS / SCI and you cannot get a job, you probably screw up wetdreams as well.

Thanks!

- Gazukull
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 8:30:47 PM EDT
This page belongs to a real, current CIA Intelligence Officer

www.covertcomic.com/CovertComicUpdate.htm

Do you really want to end up like this?
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:40:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rtech:
What do I know. I only slept with my wife whenever I wasn't out in the mud playing soldier. She was 311th MI at Campbell. I forget her MOS, but she spoke Arabic/Egyptian, learned from DLI at Monteray. Our recon/scout troops did a way better job at intel for us than anything we got from 311th. They were like F-Troop.



Well, there you go. You married the entire Military Intelligence Corps.

In your assessment, are you including LRSD, SIGINT, HUMINT, ELINT, etc? I don't know when you were at Campbell, but the guys I knew in 311th, at the time I knew them, were pretty squared away. Units get better or worse at times. A lot of times this goes with whomever is in command.

Generally speaking, you won't know what intelligence they're producing anyway. Intelligence reports up, not laterally. Division and Corps commander decide what the S2 gets at some Battalion level or other. Were you working in a BN or BDE S2 to know what Intel was producing? I know when I was a tanker, I never had a clue what Intel was producing. Apparently, the S2 was using that info, along with S3 to produce the BN plans.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:47:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 3:47:28 AM EDT by kk7sm]

Originally Posted By livefree:

Very few MI people do what you did. They are mostly office puke analyst types. Imagery Interpreters in my unit couldn't even get Russian tank flash cards right.



My sis is a USAF imagery analyst. I'm not sure if she can tell a tank from the side, but she can figure it out from the top, plus tell you the load capacity of a bridge from some photo taken from an airplane, drone, or whatever it is that the Air Force has these days, paper airplanes and things!


Half the unit/detachment had to report to remedial PT daily. The Army doesn't want to kick anyone out. Some of them wanted out but couldn't make it happen. My roomate used to celebrate his overweight status after weigh ins by going out for pizza. No crack smoking going on here.


It's been about 10 years since I got out. i guess times have changed, what with the stop loss and stuff.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 12:54:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 1:16:04 PM EDT by livefree]
I'm happily employed these days. Times were rough after separating though. Sandia Labs wouldn't even consider me for a position cleaning dog cages back then.
The wet dreams stopped after puberty. Fantasies still happen though!
FYI, I was commo and had the TS-SBI to work on those nice fixed station sites overseas. Spent most of my time at noisy AFB's even though I was Army.


Originally Posted By gazukull:
If any of you have an active TS/SCI or Secret and live in AZ, IM your resume pls.

If you were an 96D or 1N1 and your clearance has lapsed still IM me your resume pls.

Additionally, if you have a TS / SCI and you cannot get a job, you probably screw up wetdreams as well.

Thanks!

- Gazukull

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 1:35:27 PM EDT

thats an oxymoron


And that is so old, overused and ignorant that when people said that to me, I instantly knew I was talking to dipshit.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 1:42:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
Funny, from what I've read, the folks in the Directorate of Operations at the agency think the same thing about those in the Directorate of Intelligence.




Those that can, do. Those that can't, analize.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 1:51:57 PM EDT

Those that can, do. Those that can't, analize.analyze


Or even spell.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:33:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
Funny, from what I've read, the folks in the Directorate of Operations at the agency think the same thing about those in the Directorate of Intelligence.




Those that can, do. Those that can't, analize.



I thought the rule was

"Those who can, do. Those who can't, post on the internet?"
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:41:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rtech:
My ex wife was Army MI. My penis was the smartest thing that ever came out of her mouth.




Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:22:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 2:26:14 AM EDT by jkstexas2001]
There are good and bad in every bunch. I have good friends in the field who are top notch individuals who do not think that they are better than other people, and who can be counted on in a SHTF situation to take care of business.

Do a google search to find a declassified version of "Handling of Sources", an older MI manual that gives you a good idea of the HUMINT aspects of the job, to see if it is of interest to you. I venture to say that there are more good folks in MI MOS's than bad.

Interestingly, in the Marine Corp, MI folks often start off working with Sniper teams, which sounds like it would be exciting to say the least.

ETA: I don't agree with the politics of the School of America's Watch site, but they have it online here:

www.soaw.org/new/article.php?id=46&cat=7
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:52:08 AM EDT
OK, I'll throw in .02....

I was in 312th MI BN at Ft. Hood. 31C, radioman. I was in a LRSD (long range recon detachment) fyi, the det was primarily composed of Rangers and the rest were volenteers.

The MI bn had battlefield deception (blow up tanks), lots of interogaters and linguists and a bunch of worthless intel folks. The standards were pretty low for the rest of the BN, out det most certainly set the standard and did so easily. If your an infantry officer and want to go MI, try out a LRS detachment. You'll stay in good shape and have top notch soldiers and NCO's.
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