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Posted: 4/13/2006 8:14:13 PM EST
What is the packing list like? Specifically what uniforms are needed? My experience has been that I need to bring my complete initial issue all the way down to brown underwear and towels. If I have been issued 2 sets of ACU's am I expected to bring along 2 sets of BDU's to total 4 sets of uniforms? What about things like Field Jackets and Goretex since no ACU replacement item has been fielded yet?
I know it seems like a silly question. I'm trying to clean out the garage and I have a ton of BDU's and DCU's that I want to get rid of but don't want to be surprised with them being an accountable item later on.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 8:47:40 PM EST
It depends on what your MOS is and if you are going to PLDC, BNCOC, or ANCOC.

If it's PLDC ( now known as WLC) then bring everything they tell you to. THere will be a layout on the first day and if you are missing shit, your sponsor will have to go fetch it for you. You won't use most of the crap you have to bring, it's just for your wall locker display, but you don't want to be that guy who forgot his hankerchiefs.

BNCOC and ANCOC are more relaxed. THere is usually no layout, but if you are missing stuff that is suppose to be in your wall locker, you will be expected to go buy it. Everyone still has to have the same display.


Good luck!
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 8:49:43 PM EST
Oh yeah, bring your field jackets. I went to BNCOC last year and not everybody had gortex, so we all had to wear field jackets.

As far as the ACU's go, I have no idea. CHeck the website for your school and they should have an updated packing list on there that reflects the current uniform changes.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 12:49:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2006 12:51:12 AM EST by Chairborne]
I have a question for you Army guys. In the Air Force we call our equivalent training Professional Military Education (PME). We have three levels, Airman Leadership School (ALS) which is required before promotion to E-5, our first NCO rank. I take it that is equivalent to what was PLDC? Then we have our NCO Academy, which is for E-6 only, and must be attended prior to sewing on E-7. The last school is our Senior NCO Academy, which is for E-8s (and some E-7s) and is required prior to sewing on E-9. I know you guys have BNCOC and ANCOC but are they MOS specific? Our three PME levels are all for any specialty/job, and have nothing to do with our actual job. We cover history, drill and ceremony, marching, PT, crap like that. We also prepare area studies, write reports, give speeches, and that sort of stuff. I just finished NCOA a month ago, it was 6 weeks, and a very useful school IMO. All of our three schools are about 6 weeks in fact, how long are the Army equivalents? The last question I have is, I saw a building at Ft. Lewis that says "NCO Academy" on the sign, what is it and what pay grade goes there? I'm just trying to expand my interservice knowledge, my three Army brothers never even went to PLDC so they can't help.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 1:10:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2006 1:15:20 AM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By Chairborne:
I have a question for you Army guys. In the Air Force we call our equivalent training Professional Military Education (PME). We have three levels, Airman Leadership School (ALS) which is required before promotion to E-5, our first NCO rank. I take it that is equivalent to what was PLDC? Then we have our NCO Academy, which is for E-6 only, and must be attended prior to sewing on E-7. The last school is our Senior NCO Academy, which is for E-8s (and some E-7s) and is required prior to sewing on E-9. I know you guys have BNCOC and ANCOC but are they MOS specific? Our three PME levels are all for any specialty/job, and have nothing to do with our actual job. We cover history, drill and ceremony, marching, PT, crap like that. We also prepare area studies, write reports, give speeches, and that sort of stuff. I just finished NCOA a month ago, it was 6 weeks, and a very useful school IMO. All of our three schools are about 6 weeks in fact, how long are the Army equivalents? The last question I have is, I saw a building at Ft. Lewis that says "NCO Academy" on the sign, what is it and what pay grade goes there? I'm just trying to expand my interservice knowledge, my three Army brothers never even went to PLDC so they can't help.




The 'NCO Academy' at Ft Lewis would be WLC/PLDC (E-5s and E-4s) - in the Army, they use said term for all NCOES schools.

Normally, the higher levels (BNCOC & ANCOC) are MOS-branch-specific and generally housed at the branch-center base (eg Infantry goes to Benning, Armor to Knox, Aviation Repair & Transpo to Eustis, Arty goes to Sill, and so on).

The Army version, rank wise, is this:

No school required to make E-5, but those who go to WLC get extra promotion points that may give them an advantage over those who don't (depending on the rest of their packet)...

WLC (er PLDC) before you make E-6

BNCOC before you make E-7

ANCOC before you make E-8

1SG course for the diamond
I don't know if there is a course for SGM

Everything used to be one rank lower, but the Army is short E-5s so they dropped the NCOES requirement for SGT.

Everything used to be one rank lower

Link Posted: 4/14/2006 1:17:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Chairborne:
I have a question for you Army guys. In the Air Force we call our equivalent training Professional Military Education (PME). We have three levels, Airman Leadership School (ALS) which is required before promotion to E-5, our first NCO rank. I take it that is equivalent to what was PLDC? Then we have our NCO Academy, which is for E-6 only, and must be attended prior to sewing on E-7. The last school is our Senior NCO Academy, which is for E-8s (and some E-7s) and is required prior to sewing on E-9. I know you guys have BNCOC and ANCOC but are they MOS specific? Our three PME levels are all for any specialty/job, and have nothing to do with our actual job. We cover history, drill and ceremony, marching, PT, crap like that. We also prepare area studies, write reports, give speeches, and that sort of stuff. I just finished NCOA a month ago, it was 6 weeks, and a very useful school IMO. All of our three schools are about 6 weeks in fact, how long are the Army equivalents? The last question I have is, I saw a building at Ft. Lewis that says "NCO Academy" on the sign, what is it and what pay grade goes there? I'm just trying to expand my interservice knowledge, my three Army brothers never even went to PLDC so they can't help.




The 'NCO Academy' at Ft Lewis would be WLC/PLDC (E-5s and E-4s) - in the Army, they use said term for all NCOES schools.

Normally, the higher levels (BNCOC & ANCOC) are MOS-branch-specific and generally housed at the branch-center base (eg Infantry goes to Benning, Armor to Knox, Aviation Repair & Transpo to Eustis, Arty goes to Sill, and so on).

The Army version, rank wise, is this:

No school required to make E-5, but those who go to WLC get extra promotion points that may give them an advantage over those who don't (depending on the rest of their packet)...

WLC (er PLDC) before you make E-6

BNCOC before you make E-7

ANCOC before you make E-8

1SG course for the diamond
I don't know if there is a course for SGM

Everything used to be one rank lower, but the Army is short E-5s so they dropped the NCOES requirement for SGT.

Everything used to be one rank lower




Thanks for the clarification. Are BNCOC and ANCOC MOS specific, or do all MOSs go to the same school? We pretty much have an ALS at every base, but the NCOA is regional (we only have about 8-9 of them AF wide) and there is only one SNCOA (in Alabama). Are your schools set up pretty much the same way?
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 5:43:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:


The 'NCO Academy' at Ft Lewis would be WLC/PLDC (E-5s and E-4s) - in the Army, they use said term for all NCOES schools.

Normally, the higher levels (BNCOC & ANCOC) are MOS-branch-specific and generally housed at the branch-center base (eg Infantry goes to Benning, Armor to Knox, Aviation Repair & Transpo to Eustis, Arty goes to Sill, and so on).


I don't know if there is a course for SGM




PLDC (Platoon Leaders Development Course) now known as WLC (Warrior Leaders Course) is general.
BNCOC (Basic Non Commissioned Officers Course) and ANCOC (Advanced Non Commissioned Officers Course) are MOS specific. Usually where you went to your MOS school is the same base you'll go back to for ANCOC and BNCOC. Your MOS will also dictate how long the course is.

There is the Sergeant Majors Academy, pretty sure that is a requirement for E-9 but don't quote me on that.....it's a little ways down the road for me still. Some day though, you all better watch out! haha


Back to my original question though because I don't think I got the answer I was looking for. Do I have to hold on to uniforms with the Woodland camo pattern if my unit has been issued ACU's. Seems that once I got the new uniforms the old ones became obsolete. I only throw in the NCOPD part because that is about the only place I can figure I may be inspected for them at this point.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 6:44:24 AM EST
According to AR 670-1, if you have ACU's then you are authorized to wear them and there is no need to maintain the BDU's. SO, logic would serve, that you would only have to bring 4 sets of ACU's to your NCOES.

However, I again suggest that you check the packing list on the web site of your NCOES. If you don't know the website, just go to the instalation website where the school is located. Find the link to the NCO academy and it should be self explanitory from there.

You can find the link to the installation website at www.army.mil.


NCO's lead the way.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 7:33:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2006 7:34:41 AM EST by Detslider]

Originally Posted By leatherpuke:
According to AR 670-1, if you have ACU's then you are authorized to wear them and there is no need to maintain the BDU's. SO, logic would serve, that you would only have to bring 4 sets of ACU's to your NCOES.



Hey, carefull with that logical thinking......

I checked the website and no packing list is posted. Normally this woudl be something I could adress within my unit but I'm detached from anyone else with a similar MOS right now. Oh well. The search continues...
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 8:02:52 AM EST
Well then, I would suggest that you take 4 sets of BDU's and 4 sets of ACU's. Better safe than sorry. If you don't have 4 sets of ACU's, just take the BDU's. It might be easier that way anyway. Just make sure that the BDU's are relatively new and in servicvable condition.

NCOES schools are a pain in the ass. Make sure you keep all of the stupid shit like the hankerchiefs, you will need them for your next NCOES school. No sense in buying them again.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 6:33:03 PM EST
Currently were in a uniform "transition phase" until 2008. You can wear BDUs with tan boots, ACUs with a BDU Gortex or field jacket. The current requirement is 4 uniforms, 1 field jacket, 2 pair of boots. Green or black socks, Under wear color hasn't been an issue at any NCOES school I went to. Brown t-shirts with BDUs and tan t-shirts with ACUs. It's better to have 2 pair of the tan boots as you can wear them with the BDUs and the ACUs. No reason to have 2 pair of black boots also.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 2:51:03 AM EST
It depends on the course as well.

Signal BNCOC, they didnt have us lay anything out.. It was May in GA, so a jacket was never an issue.. I did have to buy low quarters, bow tie and white shirt for some forced Dining in crap.. But that was it. I was the only guy out of 200 that still had the Sweat shirt and sweat pants for PTs, but they could not say anything, as there was still 5 months till the wear out date..

I would call to the school house, or look online at their website. They should have a packing list. I would bring ACUs and ACU boots, as otherwise you will have to spend money and time either pressing and shining BDU items. At BNCOC, you could put the pressing costs on your travel voucher, but the cleaners still ruined my stuff...



Link Posted: 4/16/2006 4:00:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By Detslider:

Originally Posted By leatherpuke:
According to AR 670-1, if you have ACU's then you are authorized to wear them and there is no need to maintain the BDU's. SO, logic would serve, that you would only have to bring 4 sets of ACU's to your NCOES.



Hey, carefull with that logical thinking......

I checked the website and no packing list is posted. Normally this woudl be something I could adress within my unit but I'm detached from anyone else with a similar MOS right now. Oh well. The search continues...



Simple... call the schoolhouse. Initiative...
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 9:45:32 PM EST
PLDC or WLDCthere is gonna be a layout, no matter what, ACU's or BDU's as long as you got 4 pairs of serviceable somethin. For 89d bncoc no layout but your rooms have to be dress right dress through common core, once you get to techtrack you can do what EOD techs always do which is whatever the fuck we want.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 12:35:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By Chairborne:
I have a question for you Army guys. In the Air Force we call our equivalent training Professional Military Education (PME). We have three levels, Airman Leadership School (ALS) which is required before promotion to E-5, our first NCO rank. I take it that is equivalent to what was PLDC? Then we have our NCO Academy, which is for E-6 only, and must be attended prior to sewing on E-7. The last school is our Senior NCO Academy, which is for E-8s (and some E-7s) and is required prior to sewing on E-9. I know you guys have BNCOC and ANCOC but are they MOS specific? Our three PME levels are all for any specialty/job, and have nothing to do with our actual job. We cover history, drill and ceremony, marching, PT, crap like that. We also prepare area studies, write reports, give speeches, and that sort of stuff. I just finished NCOA a month ago, it was 6 weeks, and a very useful school IMO. All of our three schools are about 6 weeks in fact, how long are the Army equivalents? The last question I have is, I saw a building at Ft. Lewis that says "NCO Academy" on the sign, what is it and what pay grade goes there? I'm just trying to expand my interservice knowledge, my three Army brothers never even went to PLDC so they can't help.



By the way, Air Force PMEs are not accepted by the Army.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 12:36:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Detslider:
PLDC (Platoon Leaders Development Course) now known as WLC (Warrior Leaders Course) is general.



Actually it was "Primary Leadership Development Course".
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 10:28:52 PM EST
oops, yeah, my bad
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 10:48:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By KNEESINTHEBREEZE:

Originally Posted By Detslider:
PLDC (Platoon Leaders Development Course) now known as WLC (Warrior Leaders Course) is general.



Actually it was "Primary Leadership Development Course".



Which I think was the same thing called PNCOC in my day.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 1:00:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By KNEESINTHEBREEZE:

Originally Posted By Chairborne:
I have a question for you Army guys. In the Air Force we call our equivalent training Professional Military Education (PME). We have three levels, Airman Leadership School (ALS) which is required before promotion to E-5, our first NCO rank. I take it that is equivalent to what was PLDC? Then we have our NCO Academy, which is for E-6 only, and must be attended prior to sewing on E-7. The last school is our Senior NCO Academy, which is for E-8s (and some E-7s) and is required prior to sewing on E-9. I know you guys have BNCOC and ANCOC but are they MOS specific? Our three PME levels are all for any specialty/job, and have nothing to do with our actual job. We cover history, drill and ceremony, marching, PT, crap like that. We also prepare area studies, write reports, give speeches, and that sort of stuff. I just finished NCOA a month ago, it was 6 weeks, and a very useful school IMO. All of our three schools are about 6 weeks in fact, how long are the Army equivalents? The last question I have is, I saw a building at Ft. Lewis that says "NCO Academy" on the sign, what is it and what pay grade goes there? I'm just trying to expand my interservice knowledge, my three Army brothers never even went to PLDC so they can't help.



By the way, Air Force PMEs are not accepted by the Army.



One of my guys came to us from the USAF as an E-5 and made E-6 while deployed and they accepted his USAF PME as the equivelent of WLC at the board and HRC.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 5:42:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By KNEESINTHEBREEZE:

Originally Posted By Chairborne:
I have a question for you Army guys. In the Air Force we call our equivalent training Professional Military Education (PME). We have three levels, Airman Leadership School (ALS) which is required before promotion to E-5, our first NCO rank. I take it that is equivalent to what was PLDC? Then we have our NCO Academy, which is for E-6 only, and must be attended prior to sewing on E-7. The last school is our Senior NCO Academy, which is for E-8s (and some E-7s) and is required prior to sewing on E-9. I know you guys have BNCOC and ANCOC but are they MOS specific? Our three PME levels are all for any specialty/job, and have nothing to do with our actual job. We cover history, drill and ceremony, marching, PT, crap like that. We also prepare area studies, write reports, give speeches, and that sort of stuff. I just finished NCOA a month ago, it was 6 weeks, and a very useful school IMO. All of our three schools are about 6 weeks in fact, how long are the Army equivalents? The last question I have is, I saw a building at Ft. Lewis that says "NCO Academy" on the sign, what is it and what pay grade goes there? I'm just trying to expand my interservice knowledge, my three Army brothers never even went to PLDC so they can't help.



By the way, Air Force PMEs are not accepted by the Army.



That's funny, since Army E-8s can attend our SNCO Academy, and we can attend yours. I can understand that since BNCOC and ANCOC are MOS specific they are not really equivalent to our NCO Academy. I know from my experience with they Navy that their equivalent to our PME is pretty much a joke. I think it's a shame that there are no interservice "exchange programs" for enlisted members. I wouldn't mind doing a two year exchage tour with somebody in a similar job from another branch of service or country.



Eligible Air Force senior noncommissioned officers (active duty only) may attend sister service senior enlisted Professional Military Education (PME) schools. The four sister service schools are listed below. The Air Force Senior NCO Academy is the only course that awards Community College of the Air Force (CCAF) credit. All volunteer letters must be faxed to DSN: 665-2328 or emailed to SNCOAScheduling@randolph.af.mil

US NAVY SENIOR ENLISTED ACADEMY INFORMATION

School Information:

- Location: Newport Rhode Island

- Number of Academic Days: 64 Days

- Course Number: USNSEA 100

- Number of Seats per year: 36

- US Navy Senior Enlisted Academy Web Site: https://www.npdc.navy.mil/cnl/sea/default.asp

Eligibility Criteria:

- Must be a SMSgt or a SMSgt-select who will pin-on prior to Class Graduation Date

- Must have 6 months remaining on active duty after Class Graduation Date

- Volunteer letter must be signed by the member and the member's commander

US COAST GUARD CHIEF PETTY OFFICERS ACADEMY

School Information:

- Location: Petaluma, California

- Number of Academic Days: 45 Days

- Course Number: USNSEA (CG) 100

- Number of Seats per year: 36

- US Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer's Academy Web Site: http://www.uscg.mil/hq/tcpet/cpoa/index.htm

Eligibility Criteria:

- Must be a MSgt (Primary or Alternate) or a SMSgt-select who will not pin-on prior to Class Graduation Date

- Must have 6 months remaining on active duty after Class Graduation Date

- Volunteer letter must be signed by the member and the member's commander

US ARMY SERGEANTS MAJOR ACADEMY

School Information:

- Location: Fort Bliss, Texas

- Number of Academic Days: 192 Days - This is a PCS

- Course Number: L5AZA8F090 000

- Number of Seats per year: 2

- US Army Sergeants Major Academy Web Site: https://www.bliss.army.mil/usasma/ (.mil access only)

Eligibility Criteria:

- Must be a SMSgt or SMSgt-select who will pin-on prior to Class Start Date

- Must have six months remaining on active duty after Class Graduation Date

- Volunteer letter must be signed by the member and the member's commander

US MARINE CORPS STAFF NCO ACADEMY

School Information:

Locations:

- Quantico, Virginia

- Camp Pendelton, California

- Camp Lejeune, North Carolina

- Camp Butler, Japan

- Number of Academic Days: 37 Days

- Course Number: Awaiting New Course Number

- Number of Seats per year: 15

- US Marine Corps Staff NCO Academy Web Site: http://www.mcu.usmc.mil/sncoa/okinawa/index.cfm.

Eligibility Criteria:

- Must be a MSgt (Primary or Alternate) or SMSgt-select who will not pin-on prior to Class Graduation Date

- Must have six months remaining on active duty after Class Graduation Date

- Volunteer letter must be signed by the member and the member's commander

Link Posted: 4/18/2006 7:17:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/18/2006 7:21:41 AM EST by KNEESINTHEBREEZE]
Let me clarify.....

I know that at least the AF equivalent of ANCOC is not accepted by the Army. A buddy of mine who was an E-8 in the AF, joined the Army but had to take an administrative reduction to E-7. On top of that, he has to attend ANCOC because the Army will not accept his AF schooling. BTW, he went from the AF Reserves to the Army Reserves. From what I understand, the AF only allows "cross schooling" for their AD folks?
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 9:23:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By KNEESINTHEBREEZE:
Let me clarify.....

I know that at least the AF equivalent of ANCOC is not accepted by the Army. A buddy of mine who was an E-8 in the AF, joined the Army but had to take an administrative reduction to E-7. On top of that, he has to attend ANCOC because the Army will not accept his AF schooling. BTW, he went from the AF Reserves to the Army Reserves. From what I understand, the AF only allows "cross schooling" for their AD folks?



That may be correct. I doubt they would send Guardsmen and Reservists to sister service academies on the Federal dime. Individual units probably wouldn't be able to justify the funding, either. I know our reservists (my unit has a Reserve associate unit) don't usually attend in residence PME, it costs too much. They have a correspondence course type of thing they do instead. Also, like I said we really don't have an equivalent to the BNCOC and ANCOC because we leave any MOS specific stuff out of our PME. We have "7 level school" for NCOs, which is job specific, but its pretty much worthless so its being phased out. When you guy go to ANCOC (just for instance) is the curriculum different based upon MOS, or is it all "big picture" stuff? My NCO Academy class (in Jan-Feb) had one Guardsman in it (he was a civil service AGR though) and one DoD civilian our token civilian (53 year old lady) had a pretty hard time with it, but we never would have known we had a Guardsman in our class if we didn't ask.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 6:35:48 PM EST
PLDC is the same for anyone, BNCOC and ANCOC have a common core for everyone and then the MOS specific part, but I think they did away with the common core now for ANCOC now. Active did them all at once, reserve/guard you did common core one AT period with people from all MOS's and then the MOS specific at a later date.
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