Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 5/10/2004 8:22:17 AM EST
I've absolutely had it.

A dozen shitheads in Iraq let a frat prank get out of hand, and suddenly Rumsfield is on the hill, hat in hand, defending his frigging job.

Anyone recall such calls for resignation after the My Lei massacre? Let's also recall that in that one, PEOPLE DIED. Unlike this one, where we merely have embarassed guys whining to a sympathetic media.

Nancy Peliosi has the balls to call for R's resignation?

Then there's the 9-11 Comission, boldly laying blame on GWB for that attack.

These people have no shame.

There is something fundimantally wrong with turning situations like that into an opportunity to stick your thumb into the eye of a political opponent.

I don't toss around the term un American around, but this latest round has opened my eyes. THese people have ONE focus, one concern. No matter what happenned, no matter who dies, use it to attack GWB and the repubs.

I fancy myself a Libertarian with hyperright wing views in areas. I often say that there is little difference between the Demos and Repubs, but this is one.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 8:49:37 AM EST
Please tell me what fraternities engage in "pranks" that involve the rape of females, forced sodomy and have their dogs attack pledges.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 8:55:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Please tell me what fraternities engage in "pranks" that involve the rape of females, forced sodomy and have their dogs attack pledges.



I have not heard any rape allegations until yours, but I do no rule them out. The attack dog allegation was raised after Rumsfeld testified, if my timeline is correct.

Now, which fraternities engage in "elephant walks," psychological abuse, over the top sexual and homosexual innuendo? Every one I've heard of. There are no Frats at the Citadel, so my information is reliable first person accounts.

Your observation fails to address how even the new allegations equate with immediate calls for the Secretary of Defense to step down.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 9:00:51 AM EST
The Democrat stooges would scream "he should resign or be fired" if Rumsfield forgot to zip up his fly after taking a piss.

But they can employ KKK members who make racial slurs on a daily basis with impunity.



...but there is no double standard or anything.

-LS
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 9:02:45 AM EST
I was surprised at CBS's 60 Minutes last night. Instead of a full court press against Rumsfeld and the Army, they took a different approach.

They had two stories which touched on the themes of the prison abuse scandal, but which put the acts in perspective.

First was about torture in Saudi Arabia. It was a story about several Canadians and Brits who were abducted by the Saudi security forces after some car bombs blew up in Riyadh, killing some Western expats. They were beaten and told their families would be tortured too unless they confessed to have planted the bombs in Riyadh. The Sauds didn't want it to look like there were anti-Western, anti-Royal family terrorists in Saudi Arabia, and made the Brits confess they were part of a bootlegging gang in a turf war. The Westerners were engineering and medical professionals, likely candidates for being gangsters.

One guy was punished by crucifixtion and PARTIAL DECAPITATION. Some new shit came to light which proved their innocence, and the Sauds were forced to pardon them from execution.

Sort of puts all the outrage about the prison scandal in Iraq in civilized, humane countries like Saudi Arabia into perspective, doesn't it?

The second story was about a pilot chopper who witnessed the massacre at My Lai, and attempted to stop Calley's platoon and rescue the victims. After the event, the pilot went to the Army to report the incident, where he was reprimanded as the Army went into damage control. He received incredibly dangerous suicide missions from then on, and was shot down five times in the remainder of his tour. His career was basically over and was shunned.

Now 30 years later, he has been commendated by the Army for his actions, and lectures instructors at military academies about combat ethics.

This too sheds a positive look at what's happening in Iraq in the Army. The relatively quick speed with which these atrocities has been dealt with, and the openness and willingness to address the problem the military has demonstrated. It took 30 years to come to grips with what some renegade soldiers did in My Lai.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 9:04:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 9:05:25 AM EST by raven]

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:
Now, which fraternities engage in "elephant walks," psychological abuse, over the top sexual and homosexual innuendo?



Skull and Bones, for one. Members include George W Bush and John Kerry.

In Bush's regular fraternity, pledges were BRANDED with a delta symbol.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 9:07:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Please tell me what fraternities engage in "pranks" that involve the rape of females, forced sodomy and have their dogs attack pledges.



Sigma Chi, dude...
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 9:09:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Please tell me what fraternities engage in "pranks" that involve the rape of females, forced sodomy and have their dogs attack pledges.



Sigma Chi, dude...



Says who?

I'm a Sigma Chi and we didn't do any of that.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 9:12:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:
Now, which fraternities engage in "elephant walks," psychological abuse, over the top sexual and homosexual innuendo? Every one I've heard of. There are no Frats at the Citadel, so my information is reliable first person accounts.

Your observation fails to address how even the new allegations equate with immediate calls for the Secretary of Defense to step down.



Do you understand the difference between VOLUNTARY FRATERNITY PLEDGE and PRISONER? I am addressing your claims that these were merely "frat pranks". Did you even read the Army report?

"The Iraqi people are now free. And they do not have to worry about the secret police coming after them in the middle of the night, and they don't have to worry about their husbands and brothers being taken off and shot, or their wives being taken to rape rooms. Those days are over."

- Paul Bremer, Administrator, Iraq Coalition Provisional Authority, Sept. 2, 2003

"Iraq is free of rape rooms and torture chambers."

- President Bush, remarks to 2003 Republican National Committee Presidential Gala, Oct. 8, 2003
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 9:24:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:
Now, which fraternities engage in "elephant walks," psychological abuse, over the top sexual and homosexual innuendo? Every one I've heard of. There are no Frats at the Citadel, so my information is reliable first person accounts.

Your observation fails to address how even the new allegations equate with immediate calls for the Secretary of Defense to step down.



Do you understand the difference between VOLUNTARY FRATERNITY PLEDGE and PRISONER? I am addressing your claims that these were merely "frat pranks".



Of course I do. Does not the fact that thousands of soft college kids line up and take this medicine without complaint or trouble not lend a sense of proportion and scale to the "atrocities" as they have been branded.

Make no mistake, If I were a captain and these slackers pulled this unprofessional crap on my watch, heads would roll. But this stuff, and I'm speaking of the hoods, nudity, naked man piles, wires NOT hooked to electricity, from the photos I have seen to date, this is not torture, or atrocity. From the acounts I have read, it lasted 10 or fewer days, then the Army removed those responsible and began investigation. THat is my point. We don't need to burn down the entire army and start over over this event.


Did you even read the Army report?


No, I did not know it was even available.


"The Iraqi people are now free. And they do not have to worry about the secret police coming after them in the middle of the night, and they don't have to worry about their husbands and brothers being taken off and shot, or their wives being taken to rape rooms. Those days are over."

- Paul Bremer, Administrator, Iraq Coalition Provisional Authority, Sept. 2, 2003

"Iraq is free of rape rooms and torture chambers."

- President Bush, remarks to 2003 Republican National Committee Presidential Gala, Oct. 8, 2003



Fair enough. But soldiers rape during peacetime, don't they. This is a very large organization, with the UCMJ to deal with murderers, thieves, and rapists. They cannot be weeded out.

And other than the rape allegation I learned from your post, thus far I haven't seen torture, which is my whole point.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 9:26:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:
Now, which fraternities engage in "elephant walks," psychological abuse, over the top sexual and homosexual innuendo? Every one I've heard of. There are no Frats at the Citadel, so my information is reliable first person accounts.

Your observation fails to address how even the new allegations equate with immediate calls for the Secretary of Defense to step down.



Do you understand the difference between VOLUNTARY FRATERNITY PLEDGE and PRISONER? I am addressing your claims that these were merely "frat pranks". Did you even read the Army report?

"The Iraqi people are now free. And they do not have to worry about the secret police coming after them in the middle of the night, and they don't have to worry about their husbands and brothers being taken off and shot, or their wives being taken to rape rooms. Those days are over."

- Paul Bremer, Administrator, Iraq Coalition Provisional Authority, Sept. 2, 2003

"Iraq is free of rape rooms and torture chambers."

- President Bush, remarks to 2003 Republican National Committee Presidential Gala, Oct. 8, 2003



You too, Imbroglio, should understand that the abuse and human rights violations committed there were not part of the policy of our occupation of Iraq. As opposed to the torture and rape Saddam ordered with his blessings to make life more secure for him and his sons. This was wrong, out of control, not part of the plan, and we stopped it.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 9:53:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 9:55:17 AM EST by nightstalker]
-
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 9:54:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Please tell me what fraternities engage in "pranks" that involve the rape of females, forced sodomy and have their dogs attack pledges.



The Quadi and Usay Fraternity?
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 9:59:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 10:00:00 AM EST by jblachly]

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Please tell me what fraternities engage in "pranks" that involve the rape of females, forced sodomy and have their dogs attack pledges.



Sigma Chi, dude...



I could name a couple of fraternities at my old University that did worse. Making the pledges roll around in broken glass is what got them suspended for 5 years, though. Everything else was too hard to prove.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 10:03:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 10:04:05 AM EST by HKocher]
Sorry to hijack this thread.

Still waiting for a link from RikWriter that proves that Sigma Chi actively participates in the following as part of our pledge program:


Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Please tell me what fraternities engage in "pranks" that involve the rape of females, forced sodomy and have their dogs attack pledges.



Sigma Chi, dude...



I’ve seen pledges get kicked of the house for much less than rape when there were issues of sexual misconduct. Any organization has bad members, but I guarantee you that a rapist would not be protected and would definitely get kicked out of the chapter.

NEVER heard of any forced sodomy while I was in college, nor have I heard of it since.

NEVER heard of any dogs attacking pledges. Could have happened, but again, not part of any pledge manual I ever read.

We’re not saints, but none of the above is part of our ritual nor is it condoned by any of the chapters (or the national chapter) that I know of.

Before you decide to open your trap and badmouth an organization, be sure you have your facts straight.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 10:03:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:
Now, which fraternities engage in "elephant walks," psychological abuse, over the top sexual and homosexual innuendo? Every one I've heard of. There are no Frats at the Citadel, so my information is reliable first person accounts.

Your observation fails to address how even the new allegations equate with immediate calls for the Secretary of Defense to step down.



Do you understand the difference between VOLUNTARY FRATERNITY PLEDGE and PRISONER? I am addressing your claims that these were merely "frat pranks". Did you even read the Army report?

"The Iraqi people are now free. And they do not have to worry about the secret police coming after them in the middle of the night, and they don't have to worry about their husbands and brothers being taken off and shot, or their wives being taken to rape rooms. Those days are over."

- Paul Bremer, Administrator, Iraq Coalition Provisional Authority, Sept. 2, 2003

"Iraq is free of rape rooms and torture chambers."

- President Bush, remarks to 2003 Republican National Committee Presidential Gala, Oct. 8, 2003



There have been no valid reports of rape of any kind.

The rape stories come from pictures posted to the internet by news outlets with questionable ethics who posted rather obvious shots from porno movies (our soldiers don't wear the patterns they had on, or the types of equipment they were {or weren't} wearing). Slightly sublte things to pick up on if youe are not military familiar or have only heard the tales second-hand.

Positions that the prisoners assumed were sexual in nature, but I have not heard that any actually performed sex acts.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 10:06:16 AM EST
More is being made of a few soldiers photographs then Kerry's admission of his wholesale killing of innocent women and children (real war crimes by the way) in Viet Nam. He is getting a complete pass for his personal and direct actions ... and Rumsfeld is being raked over the coals for the actions of a handful of the 2.6 million military members in the service.

Double standard?
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 10:06:24 AM EST
Partisan politics has been ruining this country for years. The political parties do what is in the best interest of the party, not the country. The American people have become so disenfranchised that only 50% vote in the national election, and less in state and local elections. We, the voter, have handed the reigns of our country over to a system that arrogantly abuses the power bestowed upon them by us the voter. It is our own faults and have no one to blame but ourselves.

I haven't voted for the repugnicans or democrupts for years, but I vote. I vote for any 3rd party that comes along. I am not wasting my vote, because I am sending a message to the existing parties that I am fed up with their partisan, money hungry, self serving, and special interested asses.

I serve this country, not the inhabitants of Washington DC.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 10:12:55 AM EST
I also missed the outrage by those making noises of the castration of our civilian prisoners of war, their burning alive, their dragging though the streets, and their hanging from the bridge. The story was a mear blip on the radar screen ... here today and gone tomorrow. But then to you liberals only Americans are capable of evil so it wasn't a story.

Outside of the DU and the like web sites I have not heard charges of rapes or sodomy.

Liberals why is it that Janet Reno murders a hundred Branch Dividians for alledged child abuse and NOTHING happens to her. No outrage, no raking over the coals, she stated that it was her fault and that people that had issue were to come to her ... nothing happened.

Perspective baby, you liberals lack it and wouldn't know the difference if it bit you in the leg while you were naked in an Iraqi jail.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 10:21:47 AM EST
Just wait until the first Iraqi captive dies from alcohol poisoning...
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 12:11:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
blah blah blah blah blah.



owned!
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 3:36:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By HKocher:
Sorry to hijack this thread.
Still waiting for a link from RikWriter that proves that Sigma Chi actively participates in the following as part of our pledge program:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Please tell me what fraternities engage in "pranks" that involve the rape of females, forced sodomy and have their dogs attack pledges.


Sigma Chi, dude...


I’ve seen pledges get kicked of the house for much less than rape when there were issues of sexual misconduct. Any organization has bad members, but I guarantee you that a rapist would not be protected and would definitely get kicked out of the chapter.
NEVER heard of any forced sodomy while I was in college, nor have I heard of it since.
NEVER heard of any dogs attacking pledges. Could have happened, but again, not part of any pledge manual I ever read.
We’re not saints, but none of the above is part of our ritual nor is it condoned by any of the chapters (or the national chapter) that I know of.
Before you decide to open your trap and badmouth an organization, be sure you have your facts straight.



Note:
RikWriter
Team Member
Professional Hipshooter

Joined :: November 2000
Post Number :: 7408

FL, USA
*************************
Main Entry: hip-shoot·ing
Pronunciation: 'hip-"shü-ti[ng]
Function: noun
: action or reaction that is quick and often reckless
- hip shooter noun
*************************
Kind of speaks for itself, doesn't it.

Link Posted: 5/10/2004 3:41:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Please tell me what fraternities engage in "pranks" that involve the rape of females, forced sodomy and have their dogs attack pledges.



Leftist drivel. Typical Imbroglidiot.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:51:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Note:
RikWriter
Team Member
Professional Hipshooter

Joined :: November 2000
Post Number :: 7408

FL, USA
*************************
Main Entry: hip-shoot·ing
Pronunciation: 'hip-"shü-ti[ng]
Function: noun
: action or reaction that is quick and often reckless
- hip shooter noun
*************************
Kind of speaks for itself, doesn't it.




Yup. Don't know if he has something against Sigma Chi or if he just picked a random fraternity out of his hat. Either he forgot to return to this thread or he doesn't have anything to back up his allegations.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:08:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Please tell me what fraternities engage in "pranks" that involve the rape of females, forced sodomy and have their dogs attack pledges.



Leftist drivel. Typical Imbroglidiot.



You accuse the Army of being leftist. You are still my friend, though.

ARTICLE 15-6 INVESTIGATION
OF THE
800th MILITARY POLICE
BRIGADE
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 10:05:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Please tell me what fraternities engage in "pranks" that involve the rape of females, forced sodomy and have their dogs attack pledges.



Yeah, right. Obviously you never went to college.

GunLvr
Top Top