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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/7/2005 9:14:16 PM EDT


Those of us with older cars are having to pay big money to get their AC recharged and can't do it at home because its illegal to handle R12 without a license...I've been hearing about a product called Freeze 12 that is compatible with the older R-12 AC systems...its much cheaper and legal to handle because it won't hurt the ozone...The big question is does it work?
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:25:09 PM EDT
Try a product called Hot Shot. It is a substitute for R12 and I have heard very good things about it. I have never heard about or used Freeze12 and I have been in the residential/commercial HVAC trade for over 10 yrs. now.

Hot Shot you will need your EPA licence for though.

General rule of thumb says that if you can buy it over the counter it most likely won't be a good substitute.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:39:13 PM EDT
Tagging this one for later, as I need to recharge an old car too.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:32:35 AM EDT
I frequent an old mopar board, and there are at least a dozen people that recharged their systems with it. Have heard nothing but good things about how it works. That being said, if you have a leak you should fix it, not just keep dumping refrigerent into it.
Most just charged their systems with it. No extra clean out or anything.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:34:56 AM EDT
One word, 'propane'. works good, price is right. (ymmv)
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:35:03 AM EDT
Freeze12 is teh suk.

The Hot Shot R-414B is a much better product!

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:36:06 AM EDT
"89Grand" and I are members on a Full Size Jeep forum ... I saw where he used it in his older Jeep Wagoneer. Ask him about it. I think it worked out very well for him.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:37:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BigDozer66:
Freeze12 is teh suk.

The Hot Shot R-414B is a much better product!

BigDozer66



So how much is Hot Shot?
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:41:12 AM EDT
I know people in the A/C business that has used the R-134 in R-12 cars and it is still working.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:42:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 6:45:47 AM EDT by TexasSIG]

Originally Posted By Wolverine_Tradition:
I know people in the A/C business that has used the R-134 in R-12 cars and it is still working.




What they didn't tell you is they used a conversion kit. It's a lot more than just switching refrigerants.
Switching over can be VERY expensive on some cars.

Using the new stuff in an R-12 system without the conversion will be even MORE expensive.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:43:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolverine_Tradition:
I know people in the A/C business that has used the R-134 in R-12 cars and it is still working.



I've seen that also .... they have kits for conversion.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:46:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By skid2964:

Originally Posted By Wolverine_Tradition:
I know people in the A/C business that has used the R-134 in R-12 cars and it is still working.



I've seen that also .... they have kits for conversion.



I've heard a properly done conversion is pretty expensive but there some kits out there that let you change out the fittings
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:48:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By Wolverine_Tradition:
I know people in the A/C business that has used the R-134 in R-12 cars and it is still working.




What they didn't tell you is they used a conversion kit. It's a lot more than just switching refrigerants.
Switching over can be VERY expensive on some cars.

Using the new stuff in an R-12 system without the conversion will be even MORE expensive.



No, they just put it in without doing the conversion and it still is working just fine.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:49:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolverine_Tradition:

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By Wolverine_Tradition:
I know people in the A/C business that has used the R-134 in R-12 cars and it is still working.




What they didn't tell you is they used a conversion kit. It's a lot more than just switching refrigerants.
Switching over can be VERY expensive on some cars.

Using the new stuff in an R-12 system without the conversion will be even MORE expensive.



No, they just put it in without doing the conversion and it still is working just fine.



Sorry, calling
It won't be long before horrible things happen. The new refrigerants eat the seals out of R12 systems.
There is no way it will work without leaking.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:50:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 6:52:19 AM EDT by wildearp]
Envirosafe is what you want. Google man!

ENVIROSAFE LINKY
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:50:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 6:52:18 AM EDT by Wolverine_Tradition]

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By Wolverine_Tradition:

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By Wolverine_Tradition:
I know people in the A/C business that has used the R-134 in R-12 cars and it is still working.




What they didn't tell you is they used a conversion kit. It's a lot more than just switching refrigerants.
Switching over can be VERY expensive on some cars.

Using the new stuff in an R-12 system without the conversion will be even MORE expensive.




No, they just put it in without doing the conversion and it still is working just fine.



Sorry, calling
It won't be long before horrible things happen. The new refrigerants eat the seals out of R12 systems.
There is no way it will work without leaking.



Call it what you want, I seen it done and it worked.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:51:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VoodooChile:

Originally Posted By skid2964:

Originally Posted By Wolverine_Tradition:
I know people in the A/C business that has used the R-134 in R-12 cars and it is still working.



I've seen that also .... they have kits for conversion.



I've heard a properly done conversion is pretty expensive but there some kits out there that let you change out the fittings



Yes, I don't think it is recomended ... but folks have done that. Some guys on the Jeep forum have done it with a degree of success. I think one thing that is important is to get the old oil out of the system. I dont think it is compatible.

I wouldnt do it, I'd rather just buy a new system from "vintage air" they make some neat stuff. very compact.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:52:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:55:27 AM EDT
i used freeze 12 in my '84 bronco.....no problems. Worked as good as r12
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:58:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 7:01:15 AM EDT by TexasSIG]

Originally Posted By Wolverine_Tradition:

Call it what you want, I seen it done and it worked.




There is a lot more to it than that. The hookups are different, the Mineral Oil has
to be removed and flushed out, and eventually the O-rings WILL rot if they
are not changed to R134 compatible materials.

It's a short term fix to just stick 134a in a -12 system. It will cost money
in the long run if not done correctly.

And of course the worst part is that R-134a is a HORRIBLE refrigerant.

You will get 15-20% less cooling out of an R134a system than R-12.

Do you guys using Freeze 12 see a difference in the cooling? Is it as cold as R12 was?
My '87 Porsche will make ice cubes at the vent on R12......
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:07:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By Wolverine_Tradition:

Call it what you want, I seen it done and it worked.




There is a lot more to it than that. The hookups are different, the Mineral Oil has
to be removed and flushed out, and eventually the O-rings WILL rot if they
are not changed to R134 compatible materials.

It's a short term fix to just stick 134a in a -12 system. It will cost money
in the long run if not done correctly.

And of course the worst part is that R-134a is a HORRIBLE refrigerant.

You will get 15-20% less cooling out of an R134a system than R-12.

Do you guys using Freeze 12 see a difference in the cooling? Is it as cold as R12 was?
My '87 Porsche will make ice cubes at the vent on R12......



He knows what he is talking about here. I will back that up.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:07:48 AM EDT
well i can't make ice cubes, but i drove around for a long time with no a/c, and i was happy with the freeze 12
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:08:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 7:09:41 AM EDT by Wolverine_Tradition]
The hookups are different, but they make adaptors for that.

ETA: I know it should NOT be done, but it has and it has worked that's all I am saying.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:10:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolverine_Tradition:
The hookups are different, but they make adaptors for that.



I understand that, I've done several conversions myself. The problem is the Mineral Oil
that lubricated the old R-12 systems. That stuff doesn't go well with R134a and if
you dont' evacuate the oil you WILL have problems, it's just a matter of time.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:13:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By Wolverine_Tradition:
The hookups are different, but they make adaptors for that.



I understand that, I've done several conversions myself. The problem is the Mineral Oil
that lubricated the old R-12 systems. That stuff doesn't go well with R134a and if
you dont' evacuate the oil you WILL have problems, it's just a matter of time.



Ok, it doesn't go WELL with it, but it could be ok enough if most of the oil was out before hand ?
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:16:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
Do you guys using Freeze 12 see a difference in the cooling? Is it as cold as R12 was?
My '87 Porsche will make ice cubes at the vent on R12......



I've heard a few people say Freeze12 is comparable to R12......at a fifth of the price
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:26:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolverine_Tradition:

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By Wolverine_Tradition:
The hookups are different, but they make adaptors for that.



I understand that, I've done several conversions myself. The problem is the Mineral Oil
that lubricated the old R-12 systems. That stuff doesn't go well with R134a and if
you dont' evacuate the oil you WILL have problems, it's just a matter of time.



Ok, it doesn't go WELL with it, but it could be ok enough if most of the oil was out before hand ?



Yeah, if you can get the biggest portion of the oil out you MIGHT be OK. Depending on the age of the
vehicle some of the o-rings will rot, some will survive. That one is hard to tell, you have
to look at the specific vehicle. I just want to make sure people understand there is more
to it than just squirting R134a in. Also remember that 134a needs to be at about 10-15% less
pressure than you would have run in R12 systems. If you charge an R12 system up to the same
pressure with 134a you used with R12 you will likely have leaks pretty soon afterwards.

Most 80's era vehicles have elastomers in the o rings and seals that will not survive R134a's lubricating
oil. In my Porsche for example, the seals and o-rings would fail almost immediately.

It is the only vehicle I have not converted. It's VERY expensive to do that car, lots of things
have to be changed. Plus, it won't be as cold so I'm praying I never have to change it over.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be a dick, I looked at my posts and it appears I was. My apologies.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:33:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 7:34:27 AM EDT by Wolverine_Tradition]
No apologies needed, I have a better understanding now.
Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:41:17 AM EDT
Bad thing is R-134a is being phrase out, a new R-12 is around the corner. The conversion to R-134a works in '91-'92 and newer models cause the hoses are compatible with the R-134a. R-12 has a larger molecular than the R-134a, if used in older cars, will leak out in time. And the oils are different as well, from mineral for R-12 to a Pag and Ester oil for R-134a.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 8:45:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By skid2964:
"89Grand" and I are members on a Full Size Jeep forum ... I saw where he used it in his older Jeep Wagoneer. Ask him about it. I think it worked out very well for him.



Yeah, I used Freeze12 in my Grand Wagoneer and it worked really well, about as good as freon at a fration of the cost, and there is no need to modify the A/C system at all.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 9:06:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 89grand:

Originally Posted By skid2964:
"89Grand" and I are members on a Full Size Jeep forum ... I saw where he used it in his older Jeep Wagoneer. Ask him about it. I think it worked out very well for him.



Yeah, I used Freeze12 in my Grand Wagoneer and it worked really well, about as good as freon at a fration of the cost, and there is no need to modify the A/C system at all.



Thanks...that's what I'm hearing...I think I'll go ahead and give it a shot
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 9:03:02 PM EDT
Earlier this summer I got tired of driving 25 miles home in stop and go traffic (in Texas) without a/c. It had stopped working 3 years ago so I checked it out and found it had lost its charge. I bought all new seals and 4 cans of r-12($30 a can). It worked great for about 4 months then it lost its charge again, so I gave up. Back to earlier this summer...I was at Wal-Mart and saw the 134a conversion kit for about $34 and figured I had nothing to loose. It stated that no flushing or replacing a/c system parts was required. So I put the system in a vacuum and followed the directions. It has been over 3 months since and the thing freezes me out! It is putting out 42 degrees on the hottest of days. The kit works!
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 5:44:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2005 5:47:01 AM EDT by JFP]

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By Wolverine_Tradition:
I know people in the A/C business that has used the R-134 in R-12 cars and it is still working.




What they didn't tell you is they used a conversion kit. It's a lot more than just switching refrigerants.
Switching over can be VERY expensive on some cars.

Using the new stuff in an R-12 system without the conversion will be even MORE expensive.



I changed the fittings on my R-12 system, pulled a vacuume on it, added some fresh oil and charged it with 134. No problems. have also used Freeze 12 with no problems. Air temp at the vent 38-42*
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 5:55:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wraith:
One word, 'propane'. works good, price is right. (ymmv)



Big +1 Works better than R-12 in my truck.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 5:59:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 6:15:01 AM EDT
Here's your "License"

www.epatest.com/

Pay the small fee, take the on-line, open book test and be able to buy R-12.

The R-12 is expensive, but you should only need a pound or two for a car--find out WHY is is leaking first, though...
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 6:59:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wraith:
One word, 'propane'. works good, price is right. (ymmv)



Freeze 12 is flammable. Actually, it's damn flammable. Just like propane.

Bob
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 7:10:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By anachronism:

Originally Posted By Wraith:
One word, 'propane'. works good, price is right. (ymmv)



Freeze 12 is flammable. Actually, it's damn flammable. Just like propane.

Bob



What about that 15-18 gals. of gas behind you???? An A/C system could not vent fast enough to do much damage, plus it has what, 2- 21/2 pounds in it? Vent temp on my F250 is 34 deg.
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