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Posted: 12/26/2003 5:36:05 PM EDT
Couple weeks ago I bought a FAL kit and some compliance parts from a seller on the FalFiles.  He told me he was selling a lot of stuff because his wife needed surgery.  He had recently sold other items on the board and people seemed happy with the transactions, so I paypaled him for the kit.  Two weeks later no kit, he has deleted several of my emails without replying.  I know several people were interested in the kit, and I hope he didn't sell it to multiple people.  Anyway, if I'm not getting my kit, I want my money back... but since he is deleting my emails he doesn't seem interested in talking.

That leaves me with filing a claim with paypal, and perhaps the local police.  Has anybody ever filed a paypal claim?  How did you find their dispute process?  I know I have 30 days from the transaction, so I still have a couple of weeks to initiate a claim.  Any guidance would be appreciated.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 6:33:48 PM EDT
i have not had to but i have had friends that did prior to the ebay take over. They never recieved anything other than an email stating they would look into it. Considering their aggresive anti-gun stance now they will likely not even consider it as i am sure they will consider a fal-kit a violation of the user agreement.

good luck.

mike
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 6:38:10 PM EDT
my father bought a shotgun barrel once and used paypal. never got it and contacted PP to file a claim. the same deal where you get an email sayig they are looking into i and nothing became of it. he hasseld them for months and still nothing.

Link Posted: 12/26/2003 6:38:39 PM EDT
Interesting as Paypal is owned by ebay, and ebay still allows kits to be sold on their site.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 6:44:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Interesting as Paypal is owned by ebay, and ebay still allows kits to be sold on their site.
View Quote


They play both sides of the fence.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 6:44:34 PM EDT
Paypal aint gonna do shit.

If you used a cc file a dispute with them.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 6:50:30 PM EDT
Guess I'll submit the claim to paypal and when/if they refuse to do anything, I'll refer it to the attorney general's office.  According to paypal's stated dispute process, you file a complaint.  They contact seller, seller must furnish proof the item was shipped, if not... refund.  If seller refuses to respond, refund.

Also interesting they talk out of both sides of their mouths...  you can sell kits on ebay, just not use their subsidiary payment service...  apparently you can't sell kits, but you can sell firearms components which would be parts... which are what comprise a kit.

I can see this is going to be fun.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 7:05:14 PM EDT
I have after eBay bought Paypal. Ruled in my favor and credited my account with the full purchase price plus shipping. It was under $20, but I still got my money back.
I had to file a claim about 6 weeks ago, for 80 Gillette Mach 3 razor blades, that I hadn't received, as the 30 day window was running out. I had emailed the seller several times, without any response, prior to filing.
Within 2 days the seller was in touch with me, and told me a story of how he had a fire in which he lost most of his merchandise and records. He also claimed he had just got out of the hospital, and that was why my emails had gone unanswered.
A day later Paypal contacted me, telling me that the seller had forwarded a UPS tracking number to Paypal, in answer to their inquiries about my claim. The same day, the seller emailed the same tracking number to me.
3 days later I got my razor blades, and the seller had thrown in an additional 8 pack for free.
I contacted Paypal and went through their procedure to cancel my complaint.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 7:20:40 PM EDT
I paid for some DVD's off an Ebay auction & got bootleg discs.  Pay Pal basically told me to FUCK off & die.  

I challeneged the charge through my credit card company & they reveeresed the charges so I recv'd a full refund.  

Then, Pay-pal send me an email syaing that I should have utilized their dispute resolution process instead of going through my credit card.  This after PP told me to fuck off and refused to refund my money.

LESSON:  ALWAY pay by credit card.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 7:27:58 PM EDT
Well looks like we have another person who is possibly getting screwed, if that is indeed what is happening.  He paid via money order so has a physical addy.  Can always file a complaint with the TX police.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 6:38:08 AM EDT
I have and paypal did get my money back. After 30 days you do not receive the goods he has to prove he sent the items with a delivery confirmation or tracking #. If he can not they will debit his account if the funds are available. If not they will put a lean on the account. BUT I think Paypal is now anti gun and wont honor any gun related transactions.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 8:51:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2003 8:52:18 AM EDT by HiramRanger]
The sticking point is this... they say no kits that can be assembled into a rifle.  Well a kit can't be assembled into a rifle without a receiver and compliance parts.  A kit is nothing more than a pile of spare parts.

They do however allow you to sell firearms components...  What the hell are firearms components?  Components = parts.  Kits = parts.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 9:28:59 AM EDT
Plain and simple, PayPal will not do squat.  They will go through the motions and that is it.  Before Ebay, the time to file a claim was 60 days.  Since Ebay bought them, it is only 30 days.  Many thieves will stall you until 30 days have elapsed so that when you file a claim with PayPal, they will tell you that it is too late to file a claim and you are SOL.  IMO, they have a nice racket going.  I only use PayPal to make CC payments.  The two times I got burned, PayPal did nothing but the CC company took the loss.  I rarely make cash payments unless I know the person I am dealing with.  
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 9:49:48 AM EDT
Well as it stands some of the Texas crew are ready to go collect the item for me if need be.  You know, I just might go through the paypal motions and have them deny the claim, then I can turn it over to my friends in the AG's office for an investigation.  Even if nothing comes of that long term, I'm sure they won't like the hassle of investigators making inquiries and issuinh supoenas for records.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 10:06:46 AM EDT
I did once, but they didn't do shit about it. I ended up having to go to my bank and have them do it. Someone file a claim with me 5 days after they won an auction, and it shut my account down, they ended up getting their crap a few days later but my paypal account is still locked. They're a CRAPPY company when it comes to customer service.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 1:09:55 PM EDT
Even if Paypal does something, the most they will do is pull a refund from the account, and if the account doesn't have enough to make a full refund, you get what is in the account, and end of story.
I received $1.93 on a $100+ claim.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 2:30:34 PM EDT
If he is paypal verified, can't they charge back out of his account?  I seem to remember there being something about them having the right to debit your account.  I read somewhere that they can lein his account as well, should he receive payments down the road.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 2:57:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Couple weeks ago I bought a FAL kit and some compliance parts from a seller on the FalFiles.  He told me he was selling a lot of stuff because his wife needed surgery.  He had recently sold other items on the board and people seemed happy with the transactions, so I paypaled him for the kit.  Two weeks later no kit, he has deleted several of my emails without replying.  I know several people were interested in the kit, and I hope he didn't sell it to multiple people.  Anyway, if I'm not getting my kit, I want my money back... but since he is deleting my emails he doesn't seem interested in talking.

That leaves me with filing a claim with paypal, and perhaps the local police.  Has anybody ever filed a paypal claim?  How did you find their dispute process?  I know I have 30 days from the transaction, so I still have a couple of weeks to initiate a claim.  Any guidance would be appreciated.
View Quote


Try it, Ebay is much more 'agressive' with fraud than the former owners...

Also, try calling your CC company and making a claim with them (you DID use a creditcard, right???)
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 2:59:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
If he is paypal verified, can't they charge back out of his account?  I seem to remember there being something about them having the right to debit your account.  I read somewhere that they can lein his account as well, should he receive payments down the road.
View Quote


Yes, but as someone else said they have to have something in the account.

Many people who have a bank acct connected to PayPal withdraw it clean.I do.And it's not for some nefarious reason, I just don't want Paypal to have access to thousands of my dollars.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 3:48:27 PM EDT
I filed a complaint once.  They "checked into it" and later told me that they had decided the matter in my favor.  

That was it - no money, or anything else - just "congratulations, you win." [rolleyes]

Link Posted: 12/27/2003 3:59:13 PM EDT
No, sadly I don't use credit cards.  After having relied on them to get through graduate school and still paying that debt off, I'm a cash for everything consumer.
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