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Posted: 4/9/2001 11:50:57 PM EST
I have been up to no good.
A bud of mine is in the barrel biz and has had a couple contracts with uncle sam doing up 30mm barrels in Gain twist.
He did up a couple in heavy chamberings and a couple varmint jobs,so I had him set me up with a couple in .223 for the AR...go figure.
Well,I'm having fantastic results with a 24" 1-8 using 69gr Sierras,but now and then quirks show up.The 16" barrel is just viscious and gives me 3100fps with the 55gr Q loads,but is prone to snits with certain bullets.
I'm having too much fun and was wondering if there were any other sickos out there whom had a brain I could pick.
I did up a .338win and worked up several different loads and found the radical gain forgiving.Is it just the reduced bearing surface of the .223 or am I missing something???
Link Posted: 4/10/2001 2:55:51 PM EST
I played with them for about a year. .308 and .223(more with the .223)
The results were kind of strange. My standard deviations were through the roof. The .223 never would settle down. I tried 55s up through the PRL 87s and could never find the "sweet spot", either with different twists or with different loads. With the lighter projectiles the problem may have been the OAL. I had to use a 2.500 oal throat.
Sorry I don't have my notes with me, but, that is the just of it.
Link Posted: 4/10/2001 3:03:04 PM EST
Excuse my ignorance, but what is Gain twist?
Link Posted: 4/10/2001 3:07:21 PM EST
I've never heard of gain twist on hand held firearms just the big canons on war ships. Without the gain twist trying to push that heavy projectile would just rip the cut on the
projectile right off. I will watch this post.
Anyone make a gain twist for rifles? if so who?

Link Posted: 4/10/2001 3:10:50 PM EST
Gain twist, in rifled firearms, a twist of the grooves, which increases regularly
from the breech to the muzzle.
Link Posted: 4/11/2001 6:42:40 AM EST
Steve Webb at APEX rifle is my buddy that did up my barrels.
He DOES do the big stuff for uncle Sam,but one thing leads to another and sicko's like us are always looking for something to tweak.
First I did a .308 in conventional(About a 1-20 to 1-12 final in 1/3 Newton Ratchett form)on a Sako 75 SS action for my sicko Lawyer buddy.
The thing holds in the .4's with Nosler 165Bt's and the same POI for Matchkings!
That did it,and I did up a .338win Ruger77MKIILH(Yes I am one of "them")and took it to South Africa after some serious learning curve fun with all sorts of powder and bullets.
I found that conventional powders were too slow and that dropping a burn rate AND exceeding max conventional charges was the ticket.
I settled on 230gr Failsafes and an insane(For conventional)charge of H-414 for the hunt.
Accuracy at 100m is in the .6's and at 2900fps.
I did find that I could get ridiculous velocity's with heavier charges but was concerned with pressures in the heat.
I took several critters with that rifle and load.
Upon return thoughts turned to the AR and an "Ultimate" shorty.
If I could get 3100fps from a 16" tube all would be right in the world.
I also have this woodchuck murdering habit that begged for a 24" tube in 1-8.I had Steve do up both and put together a couple of upers using Bushy parts.
The 24" has been a pain,but recently stumbled upon "The load".H-335,Sierra 69grMK,Rem once fired brass(My basement is full thanks to a job where AR's are issued)and CCI_BR1 primers.
I have a couple of targets in the .3's at 200M!
Most of the time however she holds in the .5's at 200m
The 16" has been a love hate thing so far.
E.S. have gone through the window unless I neck turn and crimp.
Factory ammo does OK,but who likes to shoot factory stuff!
PMP(South African)Ball goes just over 3100fps and holds in the .9's with the shorty.
It's a pain to tinker with,but fascinating at the same time.
I wouldn't advise it to anyone who dosn't obcess over the minutia of things,and those that don't reload cannot appreciate what is going on.
There is one other company that does Gainers but they will only do "Short gain".
Mine are almost straight for the first 8" or so and wind up to final.
Core stripping has been minimal,and engraving damage is the same as with conventional constant rate.
OH! I almost forgot!
Steve does only cut rifled barrels so break in is a major PIA!
Lapping cannot be done with a lead lap so pressure lapping is used,then a 20 round break in.
Lots of fussing really,but a guy hs to have his toys.
The coolest thing is the minimal POI shift between loads and different bullets.
I dunno for sure what is going on in there but it is fun!
Link Posted: 4/11/2001 8:02:10 AM EST
My friend bought a .338 about 5 years ago and has been wanting to do a rebarrel. Does Apex still do barrels? The last I heard they were only doing .308.
Link Posted: 4/11/2001 8:31:53 AM EST
Wil Schuemann makes gain twist 1911 barrels. His website has some good info on it.


Reportedly, he guarantees .5 inches from a barrel fixture.
Link Posted: 4/11/2001 8:39:02 AM EST
A friend has an AR with a progressive twist (1/10 to 1/7) 20" barrel made by a local custom riflemaker. From what I've seen, it's a bullet hose at 200yds.
Link Posted: 4/12/2001 4:40:56 AM EST
APEX will do any dia. barrel your bud wishes.
Steve just moved theshop to a new building on account of his previous landlord was "anti-hunting" and had a fit over a stuffed Coyote.
The woman had no problem with the GAU gattling guns for testing,and the other high speed,low drag ordinance,but "Save the gay whales" won out...strange world eh?
Anyhoo,have him give Apex a call.520-526-3671.
If he can't get through drop me a line at [email protected] and I'll give Steve a bump on the home phone and harass him about it.
OH! the newest weirdness is AR's in .17Rem as long as Steve can keep the barrel reamers in one piece!!
Good luck to ya!
Link Posted: 4/12/2001 4:45:04 AM EST
Who's barrel was it?
Did he try several different bullets?
Both of mine have definate preferences,and hate some bullets to the point of big groups at 200m.
My 16" barrel took trial and error for about 20 different loads to come into play,and I tried 4 different factory loads before finding the cheap PMP stuff worked so well.
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