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11/24/2017 4:44:23 PM
11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/4/2004 4:38:29 AM EST
Posted this in the Carry folder but it didn't get much action.

I'm looking for pro's and con's on either the tiny 5 shot .357 titanium revolver that Smith and Wesson makes or the Kahr PM9 for CCW. I want something light and small. The guy at the gunshop was a buffoon I'm really sorry to say and he just wanted to sell me the most expensive gun in the store no matter what my needs were. I need more valued opinions from people like you guys -gun nuts!!

Thanks!
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:46:38 AM EST
I carry a Kahr MK9. It is accurate with an outstanding trigger and also easy to conceal. 7 rds seems better than 5.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:52:20 AM EST
That was my feeling too -more rounds is always better. (I know someone is going to tell me to check the ammo FAQ) but isn't 9mm out a 3inch barrell going to get better results than .38 or .357 out of a inch and a half barrell?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:52:52 AM EST
.357 Magnum is too much for concealed carry. It is guaranteed to over penetrate, and that is somthing you definately do not want on the street. Keep in mind the fact that every bullet that leaves your gun is going to have a cop and a lawyer attached to it. If you kill your attacker in self defense, but also kill an innocent bystander across the street, you are still responsible.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:01:08 AM EST
I carry the AirLite .38Spl. in a pocket holster. It's small enough and light enough that you'll carry it everywhere, and you'll foget it's in your pocket. I just shot it yesterday with Hydroshocks and it jumped around alot in my hand. The .357 may fly right out of your hand.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:15:00 AM EST
Revolver vs. Semi. I would let that be the deciding factor. They're both reliable guns. Is this a BUG or a main carry piece? Are you one of those guys that needs to have tons of rounds in case of an extended firefight, or do you carry just what's in the gun? Me, before my terrible boating accident, carried a G27 with 9+1. Never carried a spare mag. If I can't get out of a firefight in 5 rounds, I will be looking for an avenue of retreat. It's all about playing the odds. Average gun fight has 5 rounds fired. That still doesn't stop some people from carrying 40+ rounds. That's their perogative and I will never say they're wrong for doing it because the only thing worse than not having a gun when you need it is running out of ammo when the leads' already flying.

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:26:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By Trainman:
I carry the AirLite .38Spl. in a pocket holster. It's small enough and light enough that you'll carry it everywhere, and you'll foget it's in your pocket. I just shot it yesterday with Hydroshocks and it jumped around alot in my hand. The .357 may fly right out of your hand.




I'm with Trainman. I just bought a S&W 642 and love it. I also have a S&W 36 and 49. The 642 is lighter and with no hammer it will not snag on anything. It is also +P rated and .38 Special +P's will put a hurt on someone. To me, the small revolvers that are chambered in .357 kind of defeat the purpose. They make them a bit larger and heavier. I would also not want to see what the recoil is like out of that small and light of a pistol.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:41:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
.357 Magnum is too much for concealed carry. It is guaranteed to over penetrate, and that is somthing you definately do not want on the street. Keep in mind the fact that every bullet that leaves your gun is going to have a cop and a lawyer attached to it. If you kill your attacker in self defense, but also kill an innocent bystander across the street, you are still responsible.



Bunk.

They is no such thing as to much round for a pistol, a pistol is ALWAYS under powered no matter the round.

With good hollow point bullets a .357 will not over penetrate as much as 9mm. 9mm is one of the worst rounds for over penetration.

.357 IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE handgun round available for use against humans… this is well established.

You cannot go wrong with the .357 titanium revolver. It is going to be reliable, concealable, light, and have the most effective round. And if you don’t like the recoil you can shoot .38+P in the pistol.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:42:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By SouthHoof:
I carry a Kahr MK9. It is accurate with an outstanding trigger and also easy to conceal. 7 rds seems better than 5.



+1

I have a MK9 as well, love it. I take it that you've never fired an airweight. Regardless of caliber, they kick like a mule on acid! I fired the .38 +P and it was hateful. I could not imagine shooting it in .357. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:43:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:46:56 AM EST
pm9 here....you wont find a more compact/flatter piece.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:55:26 AM EST
I have the 5-shot .357 as a BUG, and yes with .357 Mags it does kick worse than any gun I have ever fired (most people that I have let shoot it have not gotten past the first round)

Very small, very lightwieght, and no hammer to snag. Can be fired from inside a jacket pocket (knew a cop that used to carry a similar gun for this exact reason)

.38 Special is actually quite manageable out of the gun and not unplesant to shoot.

Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:55:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Bunk.

They is no such thing as to much round for a pistol, a pistol is ALWAYS under powered no matter the round.

With good hollow point bullets a .357 will not over penetrate as much as 9mm. 9mm is one of the worst rounds for over penetration.

.357 IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE handgun round available for use against humans… this is well established.

You cannot go wrong with the .357 titanium revolver. It is going to be reliable, concealable, light, and have the most effective round. And if you don’t like the recoil you can shoot .38+P in the pistol.





Ok. Few things.

1. There is some logic to the idea that a handgun round can never be TOO powerful, considering that the things are puny and weak anyway. But full power .357 magnum loads are difficult to control in those little tiny revolvers, and without much practice making decent hits is darn near impossible. Thus it makes sense to have a .38 you can practice with as opposed to a .357 you won't.

2. Where on earth you get the idea that 9mms over-penetrate is beyond me. Usually the problem with a lot of 9mm loads is UNDER penetration, which is resolved with good HP loads. BTW, the .357 shoots about the same bullet as a 9mm, so if one has a problem, the other will too. The performance of self defense ammo is such that you must consider each individual ammo type on its own without making blanket statements.

3. The .357 is effective. From a 4 + inch barrel. A 1 7/8 inch barrel is a MUCH different animal. You loose a lot of velocity but still have a whole lot of recoil and muzzle blast in a small .357 revolver, meaning you basically have a .38 snub, only much more unpleasant to shoot.

4. The .357 revolver is a tad larger than the .38 version, though not much. That can be a consideration.

The .38 snub works very well and the new 135 grain +P loading from Speer in .38 Special should make this good thing even better. The Smith 442 in my pocket right now is loaded with the Speer round....
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:07:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 6:10:09 AM EST by GTTacoma]

Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:

Originally Posted By Trainman:
I carry the AirLite .38Spl. in a pocket holster. It's small enough and light enough that you'll carry it everywhere, and you'll foget it's in your pocket. I just shot it yesterday with Hydroshocks and it jumped around alot in my hand. The .357 may fly right out of your hand.




I'm with Trainman. I just bought a S&W 642 and love it. I also have a S&W 36 and 49. The 642 is lighter and with no hammer it will not snag on anything. It is also +P rated and .38 Special +P's will put a hurt on someone.



Definately check out the s&w 440/640 series. The Airlites (340 series) were just a little bit TOO light for my tastes. .357 magnum out of a 12oz gun was too uncontrollable for a defensive firearm for me.

The 642 is 3.5oz heavier and only takes .38sp +p.. but the extra weight is not really noticable EXCEPT when shooting it AND most people only carry .38 sp +p in their 342's anyways. The 440/640 series are also ~$200 dollars less the the 340's

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:07:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By Fast351:
Revolver vs. Semi. I would let that be the deciding factor. They're both reliable guns. Is this a BUG or a main carry piece? Are you one of those guys that needs to have tons of rounds in case of an extended firefight, or do you carry just what's in the gun? Me, before my terrible boating accident, carried a G27 with 9+1. Never carried a spare mag. If I can't get out of a firefight in 5 rounds, I will be looking for an avenue of retreat. It's all about playing the odds. Average gun fight has 5 rounds fired. That still doesn't stop some people from carrying 40+ rounds. That's their perogative and I will never say they're wrong for doing it because the only thing worse than not having a gun when you need it is running out of ammo when the leads' already flying.





Yeah, the average gunfight. My luck I'll be walking through town as the cubans and ruskies land paratroopers.


I can run, but not that fast.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:09:47 AM EST
Given the choices, I'd take the revolver. Inherently more dependable.

Get a hammerless model, and use .38 Special. Full-boat .357 mag is a real handful in a lightweight gun.

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:30:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 8:57:46 AM EST by Gewehr3]
I had a S&W 649 which is an all steel 2"bbl .357 mag. Full powered .357 mag loads produce excessive recoil and blast. Winchester 110gr loads were not too bad, but with these light loads you may as well be using a .38 spl.

I shot literally a 1,000 rounds through the gun, and used it in a Massad Ayoob LFI II course. I finally gave up on it. BTW 2 hammer blocks broke on my 649 S&W replaced it with a 638. A S&W .38 Airweight or a PM9 are much better options.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:33:50 AM EST
I carry a PM9 daily. HP 9mm Speer Gold Dots.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:43:25 AM EST
S&W 340PD .357 is my current carry piece with the high vis front sight. 130grain federal jacketed hollow points. They were the most accurate round I could find and I tested five different ones. The short barrel gave about 100FPS less than the printed speeds on the boxes of ammo.

I practice but I don't own this to shoot, I own it to carry everywhere and that is where it shines. Controlablity is no problem for me and during a gunfight you will NOT be worried about the short sting in your palm as you defend your life.

A hammerless revolver is THE most reliable firearm you can operated one-hand, second only to a double barrel shotgun that you cannot operate one-hand. An auto has to be unconcealed to fire more than one shot giving you one less option.

My wife had a situation where she was able to aim at an assailant without him knowing. He was scared off. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:45:17 AM EST
My first choice for carry would be an M-4 carbine followed by a supressed MP-5.

Since both those are out for hte time being, if I had to choose between the Kahr or the S&W magnum, I would choose the magnum.

Slumlord has a scandium framed Smith magnum with the laser grips and it works great! It also hurts to shoot five magnum loads throught he dmaned thing.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:49:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 8:50:39 AM EST by John_Wayne777]
If you plan to carry one of these little pistols as a primary OR a backup, you NEED to practice with them. They are not just belly guns if you use them properly. I can clear plate racks at 20 yards with my 442 because I have practiced with it.

Just because a gun is small, that doesn't mean you won't need to use it accurately. Thus you need to factor practice into the purchase. The best thing you can do for defense is to place bullets where they do the most good, regardless of what bullet you use.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:37:46 AM EST
Regarding the airweight....couldn't I practice with it using .38's and load it with .357 for carry purposes or is bullet reaction a factor?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:41:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sandman67:
Regarding the airweight....couldn't I practice with it using .38's and load it with .357 for carry purposes or is bullet reaction a factor?



You could indeed.

But what you will find is that .357 loads were designed to work at velocities found in 4 inch barrels. You are better off using the 135 grain Gold Dot round that was designed to work optimally out of the 1 7/8 barrels of the small S&W revolvers.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:43:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sandman67:
Regarding the airweight....couldn't I practice with it using .38's and load it with .357 for carry purposes or is bullet reaction a factor?



YOU SHOULD BE SURE TO PRACTICE SOME WITH THE .357 LOADS SO YOU ARE NOT AS SURPRISED WITH THE SHOT AS THE PERP.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:00:57 AM EST
As someone else mentioned, the S&W 642 makes a great backup or "Always" gun. The hammerless design lets it fit in your front pocket without danger of snags. Rides well in an ankle holster. Small and light enough to carry everywhere, and with the right .38sp +P loads, is potent enough for the job, but easily controlled. Also, I think more reliable than a small auto. I've been using the Remington .38sp +P in 158gn semi wad cutter lead hollow points. (This is the old Treasury Load). With an extra 5 rounds in a bianchi speed strip, you're good to go.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:25:39 AM EST
Pinetop,
The speed strips are like speed loaders only flat? Is this correct? If so where can I get these?
They would be perfect.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:29:19 AM EST
For light clothing, I like my Kahr P9 or my S&W Airweight 38.

Can't go wrong with either.

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 11:33:48 AM EST
They are both great CCW pieces. I have the 642ti, and run +p Starfires. It can be a handful, but the key is practice. I carry mine everyday, it's very comfy...11 oz unloaded.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 11:39:28 AM EST
I have the airlight... not sure what model you're looking at but mine is rated only for .38 +P. Go shoot one of these once, it really hurts. I can't imagine shooting .357 out of something this light. But, light and small it is - so I carry it virtually everywhere. I've been thinking of getting a Kahr also and trying that out, you can get those in .40 also. Remember, carrying SOMETHING is better than nothing, and the lighter the pistol the more likely you'll carry it.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 12:35:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
If you plan to carry one of these little pistols as a primary OR a backup, you NEED to practice with them. They are not just belly guns if you use them properly. I can clear plate racks at 20 yards with my 442 because I have practiced with it.

Just because a gun is small, that doesn't mean you won't need to use it accurately. Thus you need to factor practice into the purchase. The best thing you can do for defense is to place bullets where they do the most good, regardless of what bullet you use.



Good advise!

I probably practice more with my snub revolvers than any of my other handguns. For some reason, snubbies have a bad reputation concerning their accuracy. Learn how to shoot them and people think you must have magical powers. .. It just makes it that much more fun to shoot IDPA with
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 12:56:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By SNorman:
I have the airlight... not sure what model you're looking at but mine is rated only for .38 +P. Go shoot one of these once, it really hurts. I can't imagine shooting .357 out of something this light. But, light and small it is - so I carry it virtually everywhere. I've been thinking of getting a Kahr also and trying that out, you can get those in .40 also. Remember, carrying SOMETHING is better than nothing, and the lighter the pistol the more likely you'll carry it.

My grandma has airlight in 32 h&r magnum I that hurts I can only imagine what a 357 would be like.

even then thu I would still get one since its not like your gonna be like hey lets run a couple hundred rounds thru it in one season.

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:10:18 PM EST
Both the small revolvers and the PM9 are great carry guns. The little revolves give a good snap on recoil...fine for defense and some range time, but people vary on how much range time they'll give it.

My wife got one of the first K9's for her carry and it worked great. Nice little shooter (especially after she sent it back to the factory for a trigger job). When the PM9 came out, she switched to that (factory trigger job again) and it's a sweet little shooter. Very tiny indeed and easy to conceal. It's accurate and easy to shoot for some time at the range. True, the shot-to-shot times are not as quick as shooting with my Glock 19, but the PM9 shoots much better than I would have expected.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:11:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 2:12:43 PM EST by Sandman67]
Everything else aside, which one do you think is easier to conceal? I'm always worried about the cylinder on a revolver printing.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:17:25 PM EST
I have a S&W 60, stainless 5-shot .357 with 2 1/8" bbl. It can be very punishing with full-house .357 loads, and in fact made my hand bleed in wintertime in 1 cylinderful. I often carry it with a solid .38spl defense load, but do also practice and carry magnum loads depending on mood.

I don't have a Kahr, but can compare it to the larger Sig P239 that may be comparable in .357 Sig. The revolver is wider with arguably similar ballistics and fewer shots, but I have no qualms about carrying either.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:22:45 PM EST
Get both

I love my S&W 642 .38, I carry it everywhere but I haven't shot +p yet. Great little gun!
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:29:11 PM EST
One more thing. For deep cover, I don't know how well the Kahr performs. I do know that the Smith revolvers are about as reliable as you can get. I am not putting the Kahr down, but I don't have much experience with them.

The Smith, on the other hand, has been totally reliable.

The Kahr is easier to reload.

I just bought a Glock 26 to take over as my primary deep carry gun because I want more capacity and easier reloads. But the Smith 442 will always ride backup.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 3:18:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 3:32:28 PM EST by Rangie]
The S&W snubbie:

It’s Lighter (20oz vs. 12oz empty)

Are we really going to argue .357 Mag vs. 9mm ?

Recoil is way bad with Full power .357 ammo.

You can step down to .38 spl+P (Speer 135 gr.+P Gold Dot is designed to work in snubbies) and still do a little better than 9mm. The .38 gives you a heavier bullet with a hollow point that is designed to expand without having to worry about reliable feeding in an auto. That means a much bigger cavity for the .38 which should be more likely to expand, grow to a larger diameter when it does and be less likely to get clogged with clothing on the way.

9mm Winchester silvertip and .38 Speer Gold Dot

RELIABILITY ! Sweat, Pocket lint, dirt, weak ammo, hot ammo, limp wrist, firing upside down, firing inside your pocket squeeze trigger get BOOM ! This is a tool for the worst of times. It needs to work.

Reloading is going to be slower. These little guys don't have a full length ejector rod and speed loaders just aren’t as fast a changing magazines.

I find the J-frame easy to hide in a pocket because of its lumpiness. Rather than a flat outline that looks like a gun most casual observation would only spot the cylinder bulge about the size of a cell phone.


The Kahr PM9:

Its thinner.
It holds two more rounds.
I'd bet it’s easier to shoot for someone who isn't well practiced at shooting DA revolvers.
It's faster to reload. Even if you have speed loaders for the revolver and are good at using them.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 3:24:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By echo459:


I haven't shot +p yet. Great little gun!



A little more recoil. Big ole fireball.

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 3:34:33 PM EST
I love my Kahr P40. I've never had a single problem with it in all of the time I've owned the pistol. I also have a Ruger SP101, as pocket pistols go, a rather heavy handgun. Even with the weight of the Stainless Pig, it is a bitch to fire a cylinder of full house loads.

I like the pull the trigger again second chance of the SP, but usually carry the Kahr.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 3:53:26 PM EST
DONT DO IT!!!!
If you dont plan to ever shoot the airweight get one. But, before you do you should see if you like it. Try catching a 90mph fastball with no glove. Try slapping the mirror on an oncoming car. Or drop a bowling ball on your hand from the roof. I have a SW Ti .38. with +P it is a real bear. It is very concealable and comfortable to carry. I have also shot the Kahr. I like it. If I were choosing, I would lean towards the Kahr just because it is more enjoyable to shoot/practice with.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:21:12 PM EST
I have one of the S&W Ti .38's as well. It does hurt some when you shoot it. Bullet drop at 5 yards is pretty big, actually.

I would look at a P9 over a PM9. It's only 1.8 ounces heavier, but it fits much better in my hand than a pm9 does, it also holds 1 more round.

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:07:38 PM EST
I'm of the belief that you MUST practice with your carry weapon -and often. First rule of a gunfight is to actually have the gun on you , second rule is shot placement. I could care less about .357 or .45, I'll take a .380 with excellent shot placement over the larger calibers anyday. That said, some of you guys are scaring me with this ariweight -I was starting to lean that way but is it really a bear to shoot .38's out of it? Normal practice for me would be 200-250 rounds on a trip to the range. Is this possible or is the bite just too bad that after 20 rounds I'm gonna want to go home and cry?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:35:32 PM EST
200 rounds of .38 even +P should not be a problem. Really its not that bad.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:35:43 PM EST
That titanium .357 will split the web of your hand wide open. If you can shoot 2 cylinderfuls (10 rounds) without bleeding, I owe you a beer. I had (emphasize the word HAD) a S&W titanium .44 special. 5 rounds and it was gone, it was the most painful revolver that I have ever fired.

KAHR PM9s are some fine little pistols, I'd go with that.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:37:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sandman67:
I was starting to lean that way but is it really a bear to shoot .38's out of it? Normal practice for me would be 200-250 rounds on a trip to the range. Is this possible or is the bite just too bad that after 20 rounds I'm gonna want to go home and cry?



You're gonna wanna cry, unless you have very strong and hard hands (ie, you're a big tuff guy!). Faster lighter loads hurt less than heavier slow loads. (ie, +p 120 grain hurt less than 150 gr standard loads). S&W also recommends you not use lead nosed bullets.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:48:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Bunk.

They is no such thing as to much round for a pistol, a pistol is ALWAYS under powered no matter the round.

With good hollow point bullets a .357 will not over penetrate as much as 9mm. 9mm is one of the worst rounds for over penetration.

.357 IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE handgun round available for use against humans… this is well established.

You cannot go wrong with the .357 titanium revolver. It is going to be reliable, concealable, light, and have the most effective round. And if you don’t like the recoil you can shoot .38+P in the pistol.





Ok. Few things.

1. There is some logic to the idea that a handgun round can never be TOO powerful, considering that the things are puny and weak anyway. But full power .357 magnum loads are difficult to control in those little tiny revolvers, and without much practice making decent hits is darn near impossible. Thus it makes sense to have a .38 you can practice with as opposed to a .357 you won't.

2. Where on earth you get the idea that 9mms over-penetrate is beyond me. Usually the problem with a lot of 9mm loads is UNDER penetration, which is resolved with good HP loads. BTW, the .357 shoots about the same bullet as a 9mm, so if one has a problem, the other will too. The performance of self defense ammo is such that you must consider each individual ammo type on its own without making blanket statements.

3. The .357 is effective. From a 4 + inch barrel. A 1 7/8 inch barrel is a MUCH different animal. You loose a lot of velocity but still have a whole lot of recoil and muzzle blast in a small .357 revolver, meaning you basically have a .38 snub, only much more unpleasant to shoot.

4. The .357 revolver is a tad larger than the .38 version, though not much. That can be a consideration.

The .38 snub works very well and the new 135 grain +P loading from Speer in .38 Special should make this good thing even better. The Smith 442 in my pocket right now is loaded with the Speer round....



+1... well stated. Also pretty well put in several other posts here.

The .357 out of anything as small as a snubbie is gonna make a dent. The gun simply doesn't have any mass to absorb recoil. And unabsorbed recoil becomes 'felt' recoil quickly. In addition, you're paying for powder that's just putting on a fireworks show at the end of the short barrel, because of incomplete burning.

I have a Chief's Airweight that I load with hydroshocks (+P) for defensive use. If you shoot fully loaded .357's consistently from an AW you'll tear the gun up.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:00:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2004 2:19:05 PM EST by Rangie]


3. The .357 is effective. From a 4 + inch barrel. A 1 7/8 inch barrel is a MUCH different animal. You loose a lot of velocity but still have a whole lot of recoil and muzzle blast in a small .357 revolver, meaning you basically have a .38 snub, only much more unpleasant to shoot.



Not True.

From "Mcumpston" at Ruger forum.--


125 gr. @ 1350fps -- no .38 spl is going to touch that! Expect to pay the price in recoil and blast but don't say the .357 is the same as .38spl in any barrel length.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:13:57 PM EST
Here's another thing to keep in mind-

My CCW instructor was ex sherriff's dept...he related a story, where he was searching a house, BG jumps out of a closet, tackles him...his service weapon flies out of his hand. While the BG is on top of him, he pulls his backup [can't remember what it was, it was an auto] jams it in the guys belly, pulls the trigger...nothing. He keeps pulling the trigger, nothing. His partner finally saved his bacon..

By jamming the pistol into the BG's belly, he had forced the slide back a bit, and the pistol wouldn't fire.

He carried a snubbie for a BUG after that incident. They ain't called belly guns for nothin.

Keep that in mind, as it may be likely for you to be in a similar situation if you have to use a gun defensively.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:22:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2004 2:27:02 PM EST by Dragracer_Art]
The Smith&Wesson Scandium Airweight .357 snubby is the ONLY gun I've ever fired that made me bleed...
The sharp recoil drove the trigger guard into my knucke so hard that it bled...
That Model 360 Scandium .357 is a ferocious little bitch to shoot.

I've since opted for a Taurus Model 85 Ultra-Lite Titanium in .38 Special. The barrel porting makes it a real sweetheart to shoot.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:27:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By FourStringSlinger:
Here's another thing to keep in mind-

My CCW instructor was ex sherriff's dept...he related a story, where he was searching a house, BG jumps out of a closet, tackles him...his service weapon flies out of his hand. While the BG is on top of him, he pulls his backup [can't remember what it was, it was an auto] jams it in the guys belly, pulls the trigger...nothing. He keeps pulling the trigger, nothing. His partner finally saved his bacon..

By jamming the pistol into the BG's belly, he had forced the slide back a bit, and the pistol wouldn't fire.

He carried a snubbie for a BUG after that incident. They ain't called belly guns for nothin.

Keep that in mind, as it may be likely for you to be in a similar situation if you have to use a gun defensively.



Yeah, that's why they make those slide guard things that sit right in front of the slide... so that won't happen... You hardly ever see those though.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:29:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sandman67:
Everything else aside, which one do you think is easier to conceal? I'm always worried about the cylinder on a revolver printing.



Remember that the grip on the snubbie is very small, with very curved edges. An auto always has a "brick" shaped grip. There's virtually no way for the snubbie grip to print. I'm talking about carrying it IWB with a shirt over it.
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