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Posted: 6/2/2003 5:04:18 AM EDT
Just wondering... I'm a member here in Grapevine, Texas #288
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:17:23 AM EDT
See my sig line... Rocky River #703 [url]www.rockyriverlodge.org[/url]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:31:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 9:36:30 AM EDT by CS223]
Have a friend who's a Mason, asked me to consider joining. So tell me more about it, what's involved? Lots of b/s rumors circulating, how about some facts? Let me clarify, he didn't ask me to join. He has mentioned the Masons in coversation and offered to tell me more about the organization if I was interested.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:33:05 AM EDT
Jack the Ripper was supposed to be a Mason ????
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:34:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 5:36:09 AM EDT by tequilabob]
look on the back of a one dollar bill and you will see a masonic symbol edited to add: most of our founding fathers where masons. and the "boston tea party" was done by a local masonic lodge i never joined but my father was a 32 degree mason
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:35:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CS223: Have a friend who's a Mason, asked me to consider joining. So tell me more about it, what's involved? Lots of b/s rumors circulating, how about some facts?
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My big brother has been one for years. Never asked me once. The rule, as I have always understood it is, To be one ask one. I never asked, he never told. I was always borderline interested, just never asked. I kinda always felt thats his thing and I kinda let him have that.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:40:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CS223: Have a friend who's a Mason, asked me to consider joining. So tell me more about it, what's involved? Lots of b/s rumors circulating, how about some facts?
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IIRC it's a Masonic dishonor to ASK someone to join. Some Lodges are relaxoing their rules and regs though. who knows?
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:43:43 AM EDT
2B1Ask1 I think that is how is looks on the bumper stickers. I am not one and do not care to be one. I know quite a few who are. BigDozer66
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:45:32 AM EDT
Best way to find out more is to go check it out...
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 6:20:37 AM EDT
Who controls the British crown? Who keeps the metric system down? We do! We do! Who leaves Atlantis off the maps? Who keeps the martians under wraps? We do! We do! Who holds back the electric car? Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star? We do! We do! Who robs the cave fish of their sight? Who rigs every Oscars night? We do! We do! Sorry. I just couldn't help myself.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 6:38:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:
Originally Posted By CS223: Have a friend who's a Mason, asked me to consider joining. So tell me more about it, what's involved? Lots of b/s rumors circulating, how about some facts?
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IIRC it's a Masonic dishonor to ASK someone to join. Some Lodges are relaxoing their rules and regs though. who knows?
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Correct. Men join Freeemasonry of their own freewill and accord, therefore no man should ever be asked to be a Mason. Questions? Ask away... IM, email, or this thread.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 6:54:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 7:28:53 AM EDT by CAPITALIST]
Joining the Masons has been one of the best things I've done. I am 5th generation to be one since my family came to this country back in 1880. I know I have family that were Masons before that, but I haven't been able to go to Scotland and do any geneology yet. Edited to add: I'm 32nd degree. I belong to Scottish Rite and El Kadir Grotto.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 7:06:24 AM EDT
If interested, talk to a mason and ask him some questions. If you don't know one, contact your local lodge and leave a message. Someone should get back to you. Meet for a cup of coffee and learn about the lodge. It's a fantastic organization. Freemasonry, "working together to build a better world."
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 7:16:51 AM EDT
Master Mason, 32° Scottish Rite Mason, Shriner.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 7:31:12 AM EDT
I have know idea how far back it goes in my family.. I can get back as far back as my great grand father, but his father was named Hiram and so was his father..Hmmm... Our lodge has been doing a lot lately, 2 scholarships and a blood drive in the last two months..... Im ready for my term as WM to be over at the end of this month.... 32 degree and Shiner as well, but spend all my time with the blue lodge. Hey its great to see all you guys here, keep in touch and let me know if your ever down this way, we make a mean bowl of chili (or something along those lines) come every thursday night
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:15:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By illigb:
Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:
Originally Posted By CS223: Have a friend who's a Mason, asked me to consider joining. So tell me more about it, what's involved? Lots of b/s rumors circulating, how about some facts?
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IIRC it's a Masonic dishonor to ASK someone to join. Some Lodges are relaxoing their rules and regs though. who knows?
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Correct. Men join Freeemasonry of their own freewill and accord, therefore no man should ever be asked to be a Mason. Questions? Ask away... IM, email, or this thread.
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O.K. It's my general understanding that the Masons do charitable community works much like the Shriners, Knights Of Columbus, etc. I don't know much about their history. I know that they have special ceremonies for deceased members at their funerals, but I've never been to a Mason's funeral. It's my understanding that Mason meetings are ritualist in nature but to what extent? Does being a Mason interfere with a persons religion? I can accept honor, ceremony, hierarchy etc. similar to the military, but religious type ceremony outside of Christian guidelines might be uncomfortable. I've heard that Mason's in general are a self-help type of organization, by that I mean Mason's tend to favor other Mason's when it comes to business dealings, employment etc. How much time per month must one commit to becoming/being a Mason? What is involved in the initiation if there is an initiation? That should be a start, please feel free to debunk anything I've mentioned, most of it is heresay.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:20:59 AM EDT
I looked into it and decided it would be too much of a compromise in my Christian faith. I know that statement is going to annoy those of you who believe Freemasonry & Christianity are compatible. I guess it comes down to how you define Christianity. If you define Christianity as good people doing good things, then it could fit in. If you believe Christianity is the one way ("Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me [John 14:6]"), then it starts getting a bit more complicated. When an organization says all faiths are equally valid they are denying the Truth of what Jesus said in the above quote. Of course, in the end you don't have to answer to me, and don't just take my word without checking things out. Do your own homework. Naturally, Masonic sources will give one side. Evaluate the big picture and make an informed choice. Follow your conscience.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:35:24 AM EDT
Masonry is not a religion. Masonry does require a belief in God, because without a belief in God, no obligation would be considered binding upon you. Masonry is built upon your own religious beliefs. Jews, Muslims, and Christians can be Masons. This is why most fundamental Christian churches do not like Masons. Jesus Christ is my Savior. I am saved by the grace of Christ. I have not ever seen anything in Masonry that would conflict that belief.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:47:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By illigb: Masonry is not a religion. Masonry does require a belief in God, because without a belief in God, no obligation would be considered binding upon you. Masonry is built upon your own religious beliefs. Jews, Muslims, and Christians can be Masons. This is why most fundamental Christian churches do not like Masons. Jesus Christ is my Savior. I am saved by the grace of Christ. I have not ever seen anything in Masonry that would conflict that belief.
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The above sums up my experience and my Beliefs. Well said illigb [^]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:53:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 8:55:14 AM EDT by siennfein]
In a preview of "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" there is a part at the end that shows two big doors with a Masonic symbol on each one. Im not sure if it has anything to do with Masons. Ive read that Jesse Jackson was a Free Mason. edit to add: the same symbol that capitalist uses for his avatar.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:59:37 AM EDT
So in fellowshipping with people from these other faiths, what has higher priority: the principles of Christianity or the principles of Freemasonry? I've heard a lot of elaborate rhetoric about how masonry is "religious" but not a "religion." Either Jesus is Lord or he's not. If He is, there are certain things that are not negotiable or subject to compromise. Call me committed & intolerant, but it's a black & white issue to me. Although this could turn into an interesting debate, I don't want to hijack this thread. My parting words of advice are to gather as MUCH information from as MANY sources as possible, then sort through it and see how it sits within your heart. Out.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 9:05:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By illigb: Masonry is not a religion. Masonry does require a belief in God, because without a belief in God, no obligation would be considered binding upon you.
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So as an atheist, I would never be able to be a Freemason?
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 9:07:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cerebus:
Originally Posted By illigb: Masonry is not a religion. Masonry does require a belief in God, because without a belief in God, no obligation would be considered binding upon you.
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So as an atheist, I would never be able to be a Freemason?
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If you do not have a belief in a 'Supreme Being', you would not be allowed to become a Mason. Correct.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 9:14:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By illigb: If you do not have a belief in a 'Supreme Being', you would not be allowed to become a Mason. Correct.
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[shrugs] Oh well, your loss.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 9:15:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Brohawk: So in fellowshipping with people from these other faiths, what has higher priority: the principles of Christianity or the principles of Freemasonry? I've heard a lot of elaborate rhetoric about how masonry is "religious" but not a "religion." Either Jesus is Lord or he's not. If He is, there are certain things that are not negotiable or subject to compromise. Call me committed & intolerant, but it's a black & white issue to me. Although this could turn into an interesting debate, I don't want to hijack this thread. My parting words of advice are to gather as MUCH information from as MANY sources as possible, then sort through it and see how it sits within your heart. Out.
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Freemasonry is built on my Christianity. When Masons meet, religion is not discussed, in fact, I do not know what brand of Christian the majority of guys are in my Lodge. Masonry is not meant to jeopardize your faith in your chosen religion.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 9:25:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Brohawk: So in fellowshipping with people from these other faiths, what has higher priority: the principles of Christianity or the principles of Freemasonry? I've heard a lot of elaborate rhetoric about how masonry is "religious" but not a "religion." Either Jesus is Lord or he's not. If He is, there are certain things that are not negotiable or subject to compromise. Call me committed & intolerant, but it's a black & white issue to me. Although this could turn into an interesting debate, I don't want to hijack this thread. My parting words of advice are to gather as MUCH information from as MANY sources as possible, then sort through it and see how it sits within your heart. Out.
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Well there are those who are Christians,that consider other denominations of the Christian faith to be "other religions" I.E. Catholics, Baptists, Methodist etc. I know folks that even narrow it down to the point where they believe their "church" is the only church. My opinion is that if you follow the Christian faith, you're a Christian, I tend to include Jews in that catagory since they recognise Christ, just not in the same manner as Christians. Muslums, Buddists, etc. would be a different "religion". Anyway, if Freemasonry doesn't involve worship outside the Christian faith & beliefs, then the two can co-exist especailly if Freemasonry is based on fundamental Christian prinicples & values. Anyway, this is the reason for bringing up such questions in this thread. You can pretty well rest assured that an organization like the Masons isn't some freaked out wacky organization like some folks would like people to believe, if it was, your friends and neighbors wouldn't be a part. I have at least two very good friends that are Masons, both would give you the shirt off their backs, but I never asked them what being a Mason was all about & Freemasonry never came up in conversation. On another note, my father-in-law is a 4th Degree Knight in the Knights of Columbus. I attended a Memorial Day ceremony that he was a part of at one of the National Cemetaries. It was the most memorable Memorial Day event in my life, it was truly what Memorial Day is & should be about.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 9:27:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cerebus:
Originally Posted By illigb: If you do not have a belief in a 'Supreme Being', you would not be allowed to become a Mason. Correct.
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[shrugs] Oh well, your loss.
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Don't feel left out, it looks like I'm not mason material either... I'll be keeping you company.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 10:13:05 AM EDT
The belief in a supreme being is one of the few things ALL masons have in common. Faith, hope, and charity are also shared. What masonry Is: It is a voluntary association of men It is a system of moral conduct It is a way of life It is a fraternal society It is religious in nature It teaches the Golden Rule It seeks to make good men better men It teaches morality through symbolism It uses rites and ceremonies to instruct it's members It is based on a firm belief in the Fatherhood of God, the Brotherhood of Man, and the Immortality of the Soul. What Masonry is not: It does not solicit members It is not an insurance or benefit society It is neither a religion nor a creed, nor a religious order It is not a charity organization but makes charity a duty It is not organized for profit It dictates to no man as to his beliefs,either religious or secular It seeks no advantage for it's members through business or politics It is not a forum for discussion of religion, politics or any other partisan affairs It is not a secret society as it does not conceal it's existence or purposes. This text is from the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of Ohio, without their knowledge or permission....
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 10:15:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rssc:
Originally Posted By Cerebus:
Originally Posted By illigb: If you do not have a belief in a 'Supreme Being', you would not be allowed to become a Mason. Correct.
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[shrugs] Oh well, your loss.
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Don't feel left out, [red]it looks like I'm not mason material either[/red]... I'll be keeping you company.
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Why not?
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 10:22:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Spade: Who controls the British crown? Who keeps the metric system down? We do! We do! Who leaves Atlantis off the maps? Who keeps the martians under wraps? We do! We do! Who holds back the electric car? Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star? We do! We do! Who robs the cave fish of their sight? Who rigs every Oscars night? We do! We do! Sorry. I just couldn't help myself.
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I am also a Stonecutter. Hello brother Stonecutter.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 10:28:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 10:29:01 AM EDT by cyanide]
So I guess if a person belives in Budda he is out? Or If he is Indian, I think they are begining to sound like reverse bigots. Wonder if gays are allowed???
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 10:35:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cyanide: So I guess if a person belives in Budda he is out? Or If he is Indian, I think they are begining to sound like reverse bigots. Wonder if gays are allowed???
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Sounds to me that you have no interest what so ever and are just trying to stir some shit. Am I right??
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 10:40:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CAPITALIST:
Originally Posted By cyanide: So I guess if a person belives in Budda he is out? Or If he is Indian, I think they are begining to sound like reverse bigots. Wonder if gays are allowed???
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Sounds to me that you have no interest what so ever and are just trying to stir some shit. Am I right??
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NAH.... If he wanted to stir it right he would have asked " I wonder if gays wearing MARPAT would be allowed? " [BD]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 10:46:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 10:50:12 AM EDT by cyanide]
Not really, I think I am figuring out that it is a Christians only organization. And that is ok, really, I feel clubs should be allowed to have whoever they want in them, and bar whoever they want also. So I take it back , but are people who do not belive in the one and only god allowed to join???? Say Budists for example???Or must you be a Christian ???? This supreme being thing is ambiguous sounding. And as a courtesy, to answer your question, I am just curious, no I will not be joining.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 10:50:08 AM EDT
Cyanide, did you read my earlier post???I realize there were no pictures, but most people would be able to understand it. The only group not specifically mentioned were gays. Though I think the Golden Rule would cover that also. Why are these basic beliefs so difficult for you to comprehend???!!!
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 10:51:54 AM EDT
Got you, thanks for answering.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 10:56:07 AM EDT
Not really singling out Masons, but secret societies in general: I find it ironic that they are criticized more for not professing one true faith than actually endorsing one. Isn't that reverse-political correctness? I think that's where alot of the "if you join the Order of Whoever, you'll be excommunicated" stuff comes from. Doesn't the Mason /Catholic controversy go back all the way to the Crusades? I thought it had something to do with the Knights Templar refusing to collect protection money from the peasants for the Vatican. I'm not really familiar with this, so feel free to correct me.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 10:57:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cyanide: Got you, thanks for answering.
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I have seen a Vehda at a meeting. I personally know of a Lodge where Muslims, Jews and Christians are members. If you are looking for religious discrimination, you will not find it at a Lodge.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:03:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Moondog: Not really singling out Masons, but secret societies in general: I find it ironic that they are criticized more for not professing one true faith than actually endorsing one. Isn't that reverse-political correctness? I think that's where alot of the "if you join the Order of Whoever, you'll be excommunicated" stuff comes from. Doesn't the Mason /Catholic controversy go back all the way to the Crusades? I thought it had something to do with the Knights Templar refusing to collect protection money from the peasants for the Vatican. I'm not really familiar with this, so feel free to correct me.
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That is a topic of much debate, even in Masonic circles. The Knights Templar were formed to protect travellers on their way to Jerusalem. The church turned on these Knights when they realized how powerful their organization had become. It has even been hypothesised that the Knights Templar were the ones protecting Martin Luther at the inception of the Reformation. The church attempted to have him killed multiple times, evidently. But I digress... Masonry is not a secret society. You can join.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:04:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By illigb: If you are looking for religious discrimination, you will not find it at a Lodge.
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But you will discriminate against someone for [b]no[/b] religion? Six of one, half dozen of another.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:10:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cerebus:
Originally Posted By illigb: If you are looking for religious discrimination, you will not find it at a Lodge.
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But you will discriminate against someone for [b]no[/b] religion? Six of one, half dozen of another.
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No religion is not religious discrimination. If you have no faith, you would find little appealing in the teachings of Masonry. I doubt an atheist would ever want to join. Incompatable belief structures...
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:26:24 AM EDT
Religion has nothing to do with it... why you have to believe in a supreme being is you have to swear to God (or what ever supreme being weather it be the Budda or whom ever) if you dont believe in some higher being the promise has no meaning.... Simple as that.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:27:44 AM EDT
But illgb make a very very good point..
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:30:24 AM EDT
a set religion is forbiddin to be spoken of in the lodge. So weather you are Jewish, Muslim, Christian, or Buddist you would feel at home, but there is one common thread, a belief in a supreme being.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:33:52 AM EDT
I thought of becoming a Mason once, but manual labor and brick laying did not appeal to me....[BD]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:46:37 AM EDT
I have often heard it described , not as a secret society , but rather as a society of secrets.... t
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:52:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By siennfein: In a preview of "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" there is a part at the end that shows two big doors with a Masonic symbol on each one. Im not sure if it has anything to do with Masons. Ive read that Jesse Jackson was a Free Mason. edit to add: the same symbol that capitalist uses for his avatar.
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I just watched the Teaser and Trailor for that movie several times and have not seen what you are talking about: [url]http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox/lxg/[/url] As to jesse jackson. I don't know if he was a Mason or not. I hope not.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:54:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mk_ultra: I have often heard it described , not as a secret society , but rather as a society of secrets.... t
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The right way to say it is: We are not a secret society. We are a society with secrets[;)]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:28:11 PM EDT
I think HiramRanger is a Mason also. He took great pain in explainging Freemasonry sometimes ago.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:39:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Javak: I think HiramRanger is a Mason also. He took great pain in explainging Freemasonry sometimes ago.
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You are correct in your assumption.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:41:39 PM EDT
So Freemasonry, let me get this straight...., they wont charge you for any brickwork or tuckpointing? Coooool.
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