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Posted: 8/8/2005 4:58:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 5:53:13 PM EDT by TacticalStrat]
I just picked up one of these jewels the other day. It has about 95% bluing, mirror bore, all matching (even magazine), and lots of minor dings on the walnut stock. I paid a staggering $130 for it in a local gun shop. The workmanship surpasses my FN manufacture Mauser and is the best I've ever seen in a rifle. To those of you that really appreciate impeccable workmanship in a firearm, I highly recommend you find one of these rifle while they are dirt cheap.


After doing a little research, I have found that the K31 is one of the most accurate military rifles ever made. 1-1.5 MOA is common with a standard service rifle. The K31 also has one of the best triggers of any military rifle at about a crisp 3.6 lbs. About 500,000 were made from the 30's to the late 50's. The early guns have walnut stocks and the later guns have beechwood. Most K31's are all matching with nice bluing (but stocks are dinged up), and still have a paper card under the butt-plate with all of the Swiss owners info.


Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:13:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:17:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 5:18:37 AM EDT by macman37]
The K-31s are great rifles. Beautifully made and they have the best triggers on any military rifle I've shot. The straight pull bolt action is unique and smooth.

It's a needle in a haystack type thing but I would love to find the one my grandfather used when he was in the Swiss service.

Anyone know if there is a database of names found under buttplates?
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:19:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 5:20:30 AM EDT by Fenian]
I got one about 2 years ago...an absolute must buy for any serious shooter.

I keep meaning to pick up another one...I think I've seen 'em for $89 for so from time to time at either AIM or SOG. I haven't made any C&R purchases for a while...but I'm spending too much money on AR related stuff right now, not to mention the (*(^^*^*&_ real estate taxes, the 2nd installment of which is due Oct. 15. Mother*******. I could pay for 80% of a Barret for what I'll pay this year in taxes. That's one aspect of life around here I won't miss.


IIRC, there is a no drill scope mount for these...I used to cruise the milsurp boards, and it was just about to hit the market when I last checked. This would be one milsurp worth scoping.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:21:55 AM EDT
I bought one earlier this year and shot it several times throughout the spring. It's accurate and looked unfired when I bought it. Under the buttplate on mine was a tag with the name of the original owner written on it. Next time I go to Switzerland I'd like to see if I can find him.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:24:44 AM EDT
I do wish the ammo was a bit cheaper... but it's essentially match ammo so I wouldn't complain too much if I had a K31.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:25:47 AM EDT
Aim has them for 79.95 right now.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Swiss_1931_Carbin_Scmidt_Rubin_K31_7_5Swiss_Cal_.html
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:27:30 AM EDT
In case anyone wants to see pics

interesting looking action
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:38:30 AM EDT
I haven't tried it yet, but I'm betting you could duplicate the accuracy and ballistics of the Swiss ammo with 175 SMK's.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:40:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By topknot:
Aim has them for 79.95 right now.

www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Swiss_1931_Carbin_Scmidt_Rubin_K31_7_5Swiss_Cal_.html




I'm going to have to get one when I get back stateside.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:08:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
I do wish the ammo was a bit cheaper... but it's essentially match ammo so I wouldn't complain too much if I had a K31.



I paid $130 for a 95% with all matching numbers about 3 years ago - I have not been sorry. The only problem is replacement mags are pricey - you can almost buy another rifle for the price of a mag.

Buffalo Arms and Graf both had brass available for them, I bought 200 rounds for about $31.00 per hundred. I reload with 45.0 gr of H4831 and a 173 gr FMJBT (starting load per Lee's Modern Reloading) it's a very mild load (about 2400 fps) and I get great accuracy. I purchase the mil-surp ammo for situations where I cannot recover the brass.

I'm not sure that it was the best military rifle as far as field use is concerned, it does not have the extraction power of a turnbolt and the tolerances may be a little close for a dirty environment, but it is absolutely one of the best in terms of accuracy, quality and finish.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:13:42 AM EDT
The cost to build and machine one of these "new" would excee $1200.

Just the compound angles on the camming for the bolt lockup require a dozen or so operations.

There's a guy who rebarrel's these to .308 by cutting off the barrel, making the bolt lock area of the original barrel into a barrel extension, and threading the new barrel into that.

If I had an extra K31, that'd be the ammo $$ saving solution.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:14:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 6:15:13 AM EDT by TheCynic]
I'm still looking to get one more in
order to complete my 'tripod.'
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:18:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:20:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
The K-31s are great rifles. Beautifully made and they have the best triggers on any military rifle I've shot. The straight pull bolt action is unique and smooth.

It's a needle in a haystack type thing but I would love to find the one my grandfather used when he was in the Swiss service.

Anyone know if there is a database of names found under buttplates?





Some guys on this board have contacted some of the owners with success. I remember seeing a link in one of the posts to a database they had started (also tells you how to contact the owner), but I can't find it now. I'm sure if you ask, someone could quickly point you to it.

Swiss Rifles Messageboard


http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/tags/ (this link tells you how to desipher tag)


Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:21:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc6969:

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
There's a guy who rebarrel's these to .308 by cutting off the barrel, making the bolt lock area of the original barrel into a barrel extension, and threading the new barrel into that.



Do you have contact info for "The guy"?

I hear about him all the time and sgtar15 actually has one of the conversions but he doesnt know where the guy is either.




Here ya go.

www.lprgunsmith.com/K31_rifles.htm

It adds $100 to the cost of the first rebarrel, but if you later want to switch (say to .243 or something) than a "regular" rebarrel price will apply.

Don't miss the "sporter" stock in Monte Carlo styling.

As cheap as the K31's are right now, I'm seriously considering doing a project like this -- keep on K31 in its original glory, and sporterize another one. I realize there's some level of blasphemy in doing this to milsurp, but 7.5 is some expensive shit.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:21:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 6:22:45 AM EDT by NewbHunter]
I love my K31!

1940 manufacture, walnut stock, all matching. If you want to find good deals on "pick-of-the-litter" K31's try www.allans-armory.com





I can't wait to take it deer hunting again this fall.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:22:16 AM EDT
Another K-31 fan checking in......though I no longer have mine....it was a fantastic gun. I totally refinished the stock on mine and it ended up looking brand new.....amazing shooter. Sold it to an old guy from California.....he fell in love with it the moment he laid eyes on it....can't say that I blame him.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:22:25 AM EDT
Yes, I have one that has been rechamber into .308. It is VERY accurate.


SGatr15
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:25:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc6969:


I hear about him all the time and sgtar15 actually has one of the conversions but he doesnt know where the guy is either.



As far as I know my father bought mine at an AFB. We have no idea who did the conversion and I can't find any markings on the barrel.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:26:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 6:31:55 AM EDT by K31]
<--------------




BTW- Wolf ammo has been promising (cheap) ammo for some time. The last e-mail I got from them said 6/05. But I have yet to see it.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:28:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
The cost to build and machine one of these "new" would excee $1200.

Just the compound angles on the camming for the bolt lockup require a dozen or so operations.

There's a guy who rebarrel's these to .308 by cutting off the barrel, making the bolt lock area of the original barrel into a barrel extension, and threading the new barrel into that.

If I had an extra K31, that'd be the ammo $$ saving solution.



I'm not certain that the K31 is up to the pressure of the .308, the 7.5 has a larger case volume (3.90cc vs 3.43cc) but the recommended loads are lighter for any given bullet weight. I would do some serious research before making the switch.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:35:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:

Originally Posted By tc6969:

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
There's a guy who rebarrel's these to .308 by cutting off the barrel, making the bolt lock area of the original barrel into a barrel extension, and threading the new barrel into that.



Do you have contact info for "The guy"?

I hear about him all the time and sgtar15 actually has one of the conversions but he doesnt know where the guy is either.




Here ya go.

www.lprgunsmith.com/K31_rifles.htm

It adds $100 to the cost of the first rebarrel, but if you later want to switch (say to .243 or something) than a "regular" rebarrel price will apply.

Don't miss the "sporter" stock in Monte Carlo styling.

As cheap as the K31's are right now, I'm seriously considering doing a project like this -- keep on K31 in its original glory, and sporterize another one. I realize there's some level of blasphemy in doing this to milsurp, but 7.5 is some expensive shit.




Prices

Convert original barrel to accept replacement barrel $100.00
Install Customer's Barrel $195.00
All barrels must have minimum breech diameter of 1.100” and have a straight
section 2.500 long or longer at the breech end to be used as a replacement barrel.

In House Barrels: Krieger Stainless $510.00
Douglas Chrome Moly $395.00
Adams & Bennett Chrome Moly $295.00

Barrel installation prices included all breech cuts

Contouring of Customer Barrels, Special Contours, and Drilling & Tapping are Extra



You can buy a complete reloading setup and lots of reloading components for what it would cost you to rechamber one.

Also Midway has Swiss surplus 7.5 X 55 for $175 per case of 480 rds.
www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=662353
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:37:01 AM EDT
Beautilfully made rifles. I was lucky to find a clean one.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:41:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Herzo:

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
The cost to build and machine one of these "new" would excee $1200.

Just the compound angles on the camming for the bolt lockup require a dozen or so operations.

There's a guy who rebarrel's these to .308 by cutting off the barrel, making the bolt lock area of the original barrel into a barrel extension, and threading the new barrel into that.

If I had an extra K31, that'd be the ammo $$ saving solution.



I'm not certain that the K31 is up to the pressure of the .308, the 7.5 has a larger case volume (3.90cc vs 3.43cc) but the recommended loads are lighter for any given bullet weight. I would do some serious research before making the switch.





Interesting.

Hey Sarge:

Any signs of pressure overloading the rifle you have? (you know, like hard extraction, and the like).

From where I sit, .308 is in the mainstream of short action rifle pressures (nothing like the short magnums, for example), and there's dozens and dozens of rifles that shoot .308 without any sort of extry beefyness.

I'd say the K31 looks to be a strong action, with good steel. While the 7.5 may be loaded to lower pressures, I wonder if that's because of a perceived weakness in the rifle or because of some other reason.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:43:21 AM EDT
The biggest problem the rifle has it that it really does not like military hard primers.


No other problems. This was the first rifle I ever shot as a kid so it means alot to me.

Just yesterday my mother asked me if I wanted dad's old guns now that he is dead.


Should be interesting to see what I find.


SGat1r5
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:53:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Herzo:


I'm not certain that the K31 is up to the pressure of the .308, the 7.5 has a larger case volume (3.90cc vs 3.43cc) but the recommended loads are lighter for any given bullet weight. I would do some serious research before making the switch.




The K31 was available from the factory in 308win chambering. The action is plenty strong.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 7:06:06 AM EDT
I love my K31. It was made in 1956, one of the last years but it sure saw some use as the stock is beat pretty bad, but the metal is very good, and the bore is great. The triggers kick ass. I make my own reloads with a 168gr HPBT and 37grs of 4895 which is light, but it makes sub-moa groupings and the recoil is mild. It is perfect for 100yds. I will try upping the load a few more grains over time and see what happens, but I am pretty happy with where it is at right now.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 7:22:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
The cost to build and machine one of these "new" would excee $1200.

Just the compound angles on the camming for the bolt lockup require a dozen or so operations.




Interesting that you noted that. If you adjust the original price that Switzerland paid (about 159 francs in 1932) for inflation, each K31 cost between $1,800 and $2,100.

The bores shine like they do because they're chromed. The Swiss didn't skimp when they made these high quality rifles.

As for spare magazines, you don't really need one. Pick up a K31 charger/stripper clip and you'll be able to reload your rifle from the charger as fast or faster than swapping magazines.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 7:26:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AMZ:
Beautilfully made rifles. I was lucky to find a clean one.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/alizinat/100_1829.jpg




Would you like to sell that rifle? I've been looking for a 99% K31 for some time.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 7:43:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:

Originally Posted By macman37:
The K-31s are great rifles. Beautifully made and they have the best triggers on any military rifle I've shot. The straight pull bolt action is unique and smooth.

It's a needle in a haystack type thing but I would love to find the one my grandfather used when he was in the Swiss service.

Anyone know if there is a database of names found under buttplates?





Some guys on this board have contacted some of the owners with success. I remember seeing a link in one of the posts to a database they had started (also tells you how to contact the owner), but I can't find it now. I'm sure if you ask, someone could quickly point you to it.

Swiss Rifles Messageboard


http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/tags/ (this link tells you how to desipher tag)





Thanks for the link!
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 7:44:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Herzo:
I'm not certain that the K31 is up to the pressure of the .308, the 7.5 has a larger case volume (3.90cc vs 3.43cc) but the recommended loads are lighter for any given bullet weight. I would do some serious research before making the switch.


I was given a 1911 carbine with the recut chamber in 308. I am chicken to shoot it for the reason quoted above.

Mike
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 7:45:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:

Any signs of pressure overloading the rifle you have? (you know, like hard extraction, and the like).

From where I sit, .308 is in the mainstream of short action rifle pressures (nothing like the short magnums, for example), and there's dozens and dozens of rifles that shoot .308 without any sort of extry beefyness.

I'd say the K31 looks to be a strong action, with good steel. While the 7.5 may be loaded to lower pressures, I wonder if that's because of a perceived weakness in the rifle or because of some other reason.



Gonzo,
From what I understand the problem with the K31 action is not strength but rather the gas handling. The gas handling is not up to the standards of, say, the Mauser.

Keep your loads for the K31 somewhere below primer-piercing pressures and watch your brass for body cracks and incipient head seperations and you'll have no problems.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:15:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalMan:

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:

Any signs of pressure overloading the rifle you have? (you know, like hard extraction, and the like).

From where I sit, .308 is in the mainstream of short action rifle pressures (nothing like the short magnums, for example), and there's dozens and dozens of rifles that shoot .308 without any sort of extry beefyness.

I'd say the K31 looks to be a strong action, with good steel. While the 7.5 may be loaded to lower pressures, I wonder if that's because of a perceived weakness in the rifle or because of some other reason.



Gonzo,
From what I understand the problem with the K31 action is not strength but rather the gas handling. The gas handling is not up to the standards of, say, the Mauser.

Keep your loads for the K31 somewhere below primer-piercing pressures and watch your brass for body cracks and incipient head seperations and you'll have no problems.



OK, I gotcha.

I hadn't considered how the K31 might dump gas as compared to other rifles, so I'll take a looksee at mine this evening to try and figure out what would happen if a primer shits the bed or (worse), a case head separates.

It does seem to me, however, that a NUMBER of popular commercial hunting rifles have the same problem: Not everything is as beautifully designed as the Mauser.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:17:03 AM EDT
I don't know about a rebarreled 1911 in .308, but I understand that these are strong actions.

The following photo is my 1911 in the original 7.5 x 55. It used to be my grandfather's. My father gave it to me. The photo is before I cleaned it up.

After a thorough cleaning, I bought some ammo and tried it out. It worked great. A very intricate action. Of note: The 1911 rear sight is set for 300-meters and greater. To get a closer zero, like at 100-yards you may need to put on a higher front sight. The K31's sights are made for closer ranges than the 1911's.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:08:10 AM EDT
I read somewhere that the K31 was manufactured as a sporting rifle in .270 and 30.06.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:08:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ar-wrench:

Originally Posted By Herzo:


I'm not certain that the K31 is up to the pressure of the .308, the 7.5 has a larger case volume (3.90cc vs 3.43cc) but the recommended loads are lighter for any given bullet weight. I would do some serious research before making the switch.




The K31 was available from the factory in 308win chambering. The action is plenty strong.



Iwas not aware of that - I have learned something today.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:10:19 AM EDT
logem, or anybody:
After reading the Swissrifles link, I think I am making the right decision to not fire the 1911 anymore. I did have extraction problems, which scared me at the time. Now I read about how much stonger the K31 action is, and how the bolt and locking lugs were redesigned only reinforced that thought process.

So, you K31 guys have fun. My 1911 is retired for good.

Mike
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:22:17 AM EDT
Fine rifles but I still like the Swede Mauser (6.5mm) better. And the Finn M-39 rifles are also amazingly accurate.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:22:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ_newguy:
logem, or anybody:
After reading the Swissrifles link, I think I am making the right decision to not fire the 1911 anymore. I did have extraction problems, which scared me at the time. Now I read about how much stonger the K31 action is, and how the bolt and locking lugs were redesigned only reinforced that thought process.

So, you K31 guys have fun. My 1911 is retired for good.

Mike



If you reload, you could come up with some light loads that wouldn't be a threat to your 1911 (beautiful rifle). I'm sure that Swissrifles.com would have the information you need.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:27:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:54:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:

Originally Posted By AZ_newguy:
So, you K31 guys have fun. My 1911 is retired for good.


If you reload, you could come up with some light loads that wouldn't be a threat to your 1911 (beautiful rifle). I'm sure that Swissrifles.com would have the information you need.


Shane,
Your right on the reloads, but my heart just isn't in it.

I just recently picked up a Husqvarna 1640 in 30.06. Actually, its a Tradewinds Import Model 6000. I've attached a scope on it and I will play with it until I am comfortable enough to take it on a mule deer hunt this fall. I drew a North Rim/Kaibab Plateau (Grand Canyon) tag this year.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:04:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ_newguy:

Originally Posted By Shane333:

Originally Posted By AZ_newguy:
So, you K31 guys have fun. My 1911 is retired for good.


If you reload, you could come up with some light loads that wouldn't be a threat to your 1911 (beautiful rifle). I'm sure that Swissrifles.com would have the information you need.


Shane,
Your right on the reloads, but my heart just isn't in it.

I just recently picked up a Husqvarna 1640 in 30.06. Actually, its a Tradewinds Import Model 6000. I've attached a scope on it and I will play with it until I am comfortable enough to take it on a mule deer hunt this fall. I drew a North Rim/Kaibab Plateau (Grand Canyon) tag this year.



I'm hoping to take either my K31 or my M48 elk hunting next year. First I've got to get some proper optics for the rifles. Problem is the fact that I can get another high quality milsurp for less than the optics cost...so I'm having a hard time saving up for optics.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:05:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:32:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 10:33:02 AM EDT by NewbHunter]

Originally Posted By AZ_newguy:
logem, or anybody:
After reading the Swissrifles link, I think I am making the right decision to not fire the 1911 anymore. I did have extraction problems, which scared me at the time. Now I read about how much stonger the K31 action is, and how the bolt and locking lugs were redesigned only reinforced that thought process.

So, you K31 guys have fun. My 1911 is retired for good.

Mike



Sorry to hear that. But hey, that just gives you an excuse to get a K31 right?

Personally, I don't buy any guns with my C&R that I don't plan on shooting. I'm not really a collector in the traditional sense. I really have no interest in collecting guns just for the sake of collecting them and displaying them. If I can't or won't shoot it, I don't want it.



Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:42:25 AM EDT
If any of you guys are needing 7.5mmx55 ammo, I just ordered some match ammo from Southern Ohio Gun. A bunch of guys on the K31 messageboard say it's very accurate and very high quality stuff.


Link

7.5 Swiss Match Ammo 60 Rd Box $23.95 (480 Rds, 8 Bricks $184.00)

Swiss manufactured in the 1980’s, brass cased, 174 grain match, streamline bullet, Berdan prime, non-corrosive.
#AMO-7.5SGP11
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:44:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:
If any of you guys are needing 7.5mmx55 ammo, I just ordered some match ammo from Southern Ohio Gun. A bunch of guys on the K31 messageboard say it's very accurate and very high quality stuff.


Link

7.5 Swiss Match Ammo 60 Rd Box $23.95 (480 Rds, 8 Bricks $184.00)

Swiss manufactured in the 1980’s, brass cased, 174 grain match, streamline bullet, Berdan prime, non-corrosive.
#AMO-7.5SGP11



Aimsurplus is still the best place to get GP-11

aimsurplus.com/acatalog/copy_of_7_5swiss.html
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:51:13 AM EDT
A chromed bore?

Stuff rebarreling or rechambering. The 7.5 Swiss is a good cartridge in its own right, and as cheap to load for as a 308. What is the rechambering appeal? Think long and hard about doing this.

7.5 dies are cheap, so is 284 brass. There should be real 7.5 swiss brass out there, and not just undersized US made stuff. The 284 is a better fit in the 7.5 chamber than 7.5 Swiss is, if you are not looking for combat reliability.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 11:02:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pogo:
A chromed bore?

Stuff rebarreling or rechambering. The 7.5 Swiss is a good cartridge in its own right, and as cheap to load for as a 308. What is the rechambering appeal? Think long and hard about doing this.

7.5 dies are cheap, so is 284 brass. There should be real 7.5 swiss brass out there, and not just undersized US made stuff. The 284 is a better fit in the 7.5 chamber than 7.5 Swiss is, if you are not looking for combat reliability.



I reload using Graf brass, I neck size only since swapping rifles is not a concern. I expect the brass to outlive me. The standard sizing dies will overwork the brass.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 11:05:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ_newguy:

Originally Posted By Herzo:
I'm not certain that the K31 is up to the pressure of the .308, the 7.5 has a larger case volume (3.90cc vs 3.43cc) but the recommended loads are lighter for any given bullet weight. I would do some serious research before making the switch.


I was given a 1911 carbine with the recut chamber in 308. I am chicken to shoot it for the reason quoted above.

Mike



Been firing mine for 28 years.

Never had a problem other than hard primers


Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 11:13:57 AM EDT
Sgt,
The K31 has a stronger action than the 1911.

Carry on,
Mike
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