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Link Posted: 2/21/2024 8:16:50 AM EDT
[#1]
Synthetic oils have more detergents than conventional oils
If sludge and junk is what's holding the engine together and keeping it from leaking, then that better oil WILL clean out the gunk.
It won't CAUSE leaks, it'll just show you where leaks have always been likely to be, just blocked up with gunk
VP
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 8:49:33 AM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This.  If your car is over 100,000 miles then it's eventually going to pop a leak somewhere.

99% of them are just inconveniences you can live with.
View Quote
Yep, nothing a little cat litter on the driveway/garage floor won't address.
I'm not a mechanic, but it seems that if oil/fluid leaks are a real issue that a rebuild should be considered. Of course, that's probably like plumbing where you fix one thing and something else springs an even greater leak than you had.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 9:08:46 AM EDT
[#3]
My DD is a 2013 Tundra with 270K on it.  I'm the original owner and have only used Mobil One since I bought it.  

Never had an oil leak.

YMMV

Link Posted: 2/21/2024 9:42:47 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yep, nothing a little cat litter on the driveway/garage floor won't address.
I'm not a mechanic, but it seems that if oil/fluid leaks are a real issue that a rebuild should be considered. Of course, that's probably like plumbing where you fix one thing and something else springs an even greater leak than you had.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
This.  If your car is over 100,000 miles then it's eventually going to pop a leak somewhere.

99% of them are just inconveniences you can live with.
Yep, nothing a little cat litter on the driveway/garage floor won't address.
I'm not a mechanic, but it seems that if oil/fluid leaks are a real issue that a rebuild should be considered. Of course, that's probably like plumbing where you fix one thing and something else springs an even greater leak than you had.

This. If it's not a puddle, it's not really a leak. Spots on the driveway are just a minor annoyance. A real truck should have enough mud or dirt falling off of it from time-to-time that the spots resolve without further attention, anyway.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 9:47:43 AM EDT
[#5]
Old wives tale.  Full synthetic will help your engine last far longer than conventional.   I have been using synthetic in my cats for the past 30 years and not one of them has ever leaked.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 12:16:11 PM EDT
[#6]
It's an old wives tale from the early 80's.
In 1981 I used Mobil 1 on my 1976 FIAT, and tt leaked at the oil pan a little because that gasket was not as tight as the others, and it was cork.
All of the gasket materials and machined surfaces are so much better now, that it's not an issue anymore.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:02:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This reminds me, I'm overdue to change the oil.



View Quote


Don't forget to rotate tires too.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:57:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Hi-mileage synthetic has an additive package that helps swell seals, ostensibly reducing or eliminating leaks.

I have 5 vehicles with over 100k miles, not a single one one drips oil on my garage/driveway.
View Quote

This.

Many of the conventional dino oils use the seal swelling additive. Several of the non-high mileage synthetics, don’t.

Switching to the ones without the seal swelling additive, can expose leaks from old gaskets.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:00:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
159K on my Tacoma, have used full synthetic from day 1, no leaks. Hyundai Elantra, 179K, but only about 30K on the reman engine. My fault, didn't replace the timing chain when I was supposed to. But the old engine never leaked, neither does this one. Full synthetic from day 1.
View Quote

See my previous post.

The problem occurs mostly when someone’s used conventional dino oils for a long time, THEN switches to a non-high mileage synthetic.

Using a synthetic from Day 1 (even the non-high mileage variants) isn’t an issue (and can have benefits for engine longevity, depending on driving).
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:12:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Synthetic oils have more detergents than conventional oils
If sludge and junk is what's holding the engine together and keeping it from leaking, then that better oil WILL clean out the gunk.
It won't CAUSE leaks, it'll just show you where leaks have always been likely to be, just blocked up with gunk
View Quote

The sludge/clean out theory, while it has some potential merit, isn’t what I’d think is the most common cause.

Been a car/track nut for decades, including being in communities and forums where nuts regularly send in their oil samples for UOA (Used Oil Analysis) at places like Blackstone labs.

Have known some folks with older vehicles, who’ve been doing UOAs on dino with clean reports, then decided to switch to synthetics. UOAs didn’t show any signs of increased sludge/cleaning (which would show up in the used oil), but the vehicles developed slow leaks.

The solution was to either replace all the old seals and gaskets, or switch to a high mileage synthetic with seal swelling additives, or back to the dino they’d been using (which likely also had a seal swelling additive).
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 5:07:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Don't overthink this, an oil LEAK is just an inexpensive, slow-motion OIL Change.
Top up the oil level as required, slap a new filter on every year or so, and drive on.
View Quote


Ah, the change by attrition strategy
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 5:34:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
I ask because it seems as if dino oil is getting harder to find.
Used Penzoil 10w-30 in the old truck since 1994, then last year I switched to Valvoline because I couldn't find non synth Penzoil.
Today I bought Quaker State because I couldn't find Valvoline.
Anyway, is there any truth to synth causing oil leaks, or in my case, worse oil leaks? (old Dakota has always had a slight oil leak)
View Quote


Fix your oil leaks so they don’t become bigger oil leaks. Somehow people blame oil instead of their neglectful ownership for leaks.
Link Posted: 2/22/2024 12:03:46 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Synthetic oils have more detergents than conventional oils
If sludge and junk is what's holding the engine together and keeping it from leaking, then that better oil WILL clean out the gunk.
It won't CAUSE leaks, it'll just show you where leaks have always been likely to be, just blocked up with gunk
View Quote



No they don’t.

lol.
Link Posted: 2/22/2024 12:09:28 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



No they don't.

lol.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Synthetic oils have more detergents than conventional oils
If sludge and junk is what's holding the engine together and keeping it from leaking, then that better oil WILL clean out the gunk.
It won't CAUSE leaks, it'll just show you where leaks have always been likely to be, just blocked up with gunk



No they don't.

lol.

Lol


Link Posted: 2/22/2024 12:19:01 AM EDT
[#15]
Try Mobil 1 High Mileage.
Link Posted: 2/22/2024 12:30:46 AM EDT
[#16]
From my understanding a traditional oil has many smaller particles and synthetic is more consistent particles size.  So a traditional oil should leak before a synthetic would as it thins out more than synthetic will.  

Sound like some bullshit to me.  Old cars just get leaks and need gaskets sometimes.  None of my cars have had suspicious leaks with synthetic and I doubt whoever owned them before me used it.
Link Posted: 2/22/2024 12:49:29 AM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
From my understanding a traditional oil has many smaller particles and synthetic is more consistent particles size.  So a traditional oil should leak before a synthetic would as it thins out more than synthetic will.  

Sound like some bullshit to me.  Old cars just get leaks and need gaskets sometimes.  None of my cars have had suspicious leaks with synthetic and I doubt whoever owned them before me used it.
View Quote



I’ll clarify this.





Conventional PAO VS M-PAO for reference.  It has nothing to do with the molecular size. At all.


There is a test called the Noack volatility test. It’s how much of your oil is lost into vapor at 250c for 60 minutes.

A Dexos 1 Gen 3 cannot lose more than 13% of its mass.  A normal GF6 SP rated is 15%

Yes. Your oil will naturally have some volume loss.  Because the refining process isn’t clean. So it still has some light ends in it. Once heated up, a Group 2 base oil will lose more than a group 3.  In theory a group 3 will lose more than a Group 4. (GTL base stocks are/can be the exceptions.)
Link Posted: 2/22/2024 1:05:37 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/Fat_baby_laughs-777.gif

Gee Dee:  where the dumbest motherfuckers in the world argue with the smartest people on the planet.

/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/jerryPopcorn-685.gif
View Quote
Hey this isn't nuclear physics
Link Posted: 2/22/2024 1:13:15 AM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Hey this isn't nuclear physics
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/Fat_baby_laughs-777.gif

Gee Dee:  where the dumbest motherfuckers in the world argue with the smartest people on the planet.

/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/jerryPopcorn-685.gif
Hey this isn't nuclear physics



Correct.

I’m a fucking idiot.


I just got the oil flavored autism.


MrHiggs is the true genius.
Link Posted: 2/22/2024 1:30:57 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Correct.

I'm a fucking idiot.


I just got the oil flavored autism.


MrHiggs is the true genius.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/Fat_baby_laughs-777.gif

Gee Dee:  where the dumbest motherfuckers in the world argue with the smartest people on the planet.

/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/jerryPopcorn-685.gif
Hey this isn't nuclear physics



Correct.

I'm a fucking idiot.


I just got the oil flavored autism.


MrHiggs is the true genius.
Hats off to you and anyone else who has the intelligence and interest enough to take the time and put in the effort to really learn and understand things like this. Me I'm just a wrench turner who can follow mfg recommendations. When it comes to graphs and formulas , chemical analysis and shit like that my eyes glaze over and I start thinking about lunch.  
Link Posted: 2/22/2024 2:08:58 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



I'll clarify this.


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/85BAAB80-0006-4F95-A36F-B37C5C6ED6CF-2705361.jpg


Conventional PAO VS M-PAO for reference.  It has nothing to do with the molecular size. At all.


There is a test called the Noack volatility test. It's how much of your oil is lost into vapor at 250c for 60 minutes.

A Dexos 1 Gen 3 cannot lose more than 13% of its mass.  A normal GF6 SP rated is 15%

Yes. Your oil will naturally have some volume loss.  Because the refining process isn't clean. So it still has some light ends in it. Once heated up, a Group 2 base oil will lose more than a group 3.  In theory a group 3 will lose more than a Group 4. (GTL base stocks are/can be the exceptions.)
View Quote
I see.   While I got you here.    I'm doing my first Honda engine rebuild.  Usually I trade mechanics for paintwork but I want to do this one myself.  B20 4 cylinder.  Do I need to use break in oil or can I just start it on full synthetic day one?   Gonna be all new parts and machined out a little for new pistons. Whats the difference with a break in oil?
Link Posted: 2/22/2024 2:21:05 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I see.   While I got you here.    I'm doing my first Honda engine rebuild.  Usually I trade mechanics for paintwork but I want to do this one myself.  B20 4 cylinder.  Do I need to use break in oil or can I just start it on full synthetic day one?   Gonna be all new parts and machined out a little for new pistons. Whats the difference with a break in oil?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:



I'll clarify this.


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/85BAAB80-0006-4F95-A36F-B37C5C6ED6CF-2705361.jpg


Conventional PAO VS M-PAO for reference.  It has nothing to do with the molecular size. At all.


There is a test called the Noack volatility test. It's how much of your oil is lost into vapor at 250c for 60 minutes.

A Dexos 1 Gen 3 cannot lose more than 13% of its mass.  A normal GF6 SP rated is 15%

Yes. Your oil will naturally have some volume loss.  Because the refining process isn't clean. So it still has some light ends in it. Once heated up, a Group 2 base oil will lose more than a group 3.  In theory a group 3 will lose more than a Group 4. (GTL base stocks are/can be the exceptions.)
I see.   While I got you here.    I'm doing my first Honda engine rebuild.  Usually I trade mechanics for paintwork but I want to do this one myself.  B20 4 cylinder.  Do I need to use break in oil or can I just start it on full synthetic day one?   Gonna be all new parts and machined out a little for new pistons. Whats the difference with a break in oil?



Break in oil - no.

Change the oil after a few hours, yes.


Manual rebuilds will have assembly lubricant involved.  So you’ll want to get that out.  As it’s all going to end up in your filter anyways.
Link Posted: 2/22/2024 2:27:06 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
I ask because it seems as if dino oil is getting harder to find.
Used Penzoil 10w-30 in the old truck since 1994, then last year I switched to Valvoline because I couldn't find non synth Penzoil.
Today I bought Quaker State because I couldn't find Valvoline.
Anyway, is there any truth to synth causing oil leaks, or in my case, worse oil leaks? (old Dakota has always had a slight oil leak)
View Quote

NO.
Link Posted: 2/22/2024 2:45:27 AM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 2/22/2024 12:47:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Break in oil - no.

Change the oil after a few hours, yes.

Manual rebuilds will have assembly lubricant involved.  So you’ll want to get that out.  As it’s all going to end up in your filter anyways.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
 I'm doing my first Honda engine rebuild.  Usually I trade mechanics for paintwork but I want to do this one myself.  B20 4 cylinder.  Do I need to use break in oil or can I just start it on full synthetic day one?   Gonna be all new parts and machined out a little for new pistons. Whats the difference with a break in oil?



Break in oil - no.

Change the oil after a few hours, yes.

Manual rebuilds will have assembly lubricant involved.  So you’ll want to get that out.  As it’s all going to end up in your filter anyways.


I rebuild ATV engines fairly frequently.   I have always used Rotella T4 for initial run, then switched to T6 after break in (100 miles).   Was told by several engine builders that syn is "too slick" to allow rings to seat properly.

I can tell the full syn runs quieter and cooler than the T4 (fan doesn't kick on nearly as often running the T6).


Link Posted: 2/22/2024 1:00:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I rebuild ATV engines fairly frequently.   I have always used Rotella T4 for initial run, then switched to T6 after break in (100 miles).   Was told by several engine builders that syn is "too slick" to allow rings to seat properly.

I can tell the full syn runs quieter and cooler than the T4 (fan doesn't kick on nearly as often running the T6).


View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
 I'm doing my first Honda engine rebuild.  Usually I trade mechanics for paintwork but I want to do this one myself.  B20 4 cylinder.  Do I need to use break in oil or can I just start it on full synthetic day one?   Gonna be all new parts and machined out a little for new pistons. Whats the difference with a break in oil?



Break in oil - no.

Change the oil after a few hours, yes.

Manual rebuilds will have assembly lubricant involved.  So you’ll want to get that out.  As it’s all going to end up in your filter anyways.


I rebuild ATV engines fairly frequently.   I have always used Rotella T4 for initial run, then switched to T6 after break in (100 miles).   Was told by several engine builders that syn is "too slick" to allow rings to seat properly.

I can tell the full syn runs quieter and cooler than the T4 (fan doesn't kick on nearly as often running the T6).





Too slick isn’t a thing.


Like… it’s just not a thing.   I can’t even explain it besides someone’s mouth opened up and shit came out.
Link Posted: 2/22/2024 1:17:23 PM EDT
[#27]
Okay instead of an extensive edit. I’m going to make this post.  Let me dig back into the archives.




So a lubricant lowers friction. This is true for all lubricants. Picking the proper viscosity grade is key to determining your friction. As, too thick will make more friction. And too thin will make more friction and wear.




This is your different types of lubrication regiments.


As you can see, touching / sometimes touching / never touching.

Most of the time you want to stay between mixed and hydrodynamic.  The problem with mixed, is particulate contamination.  If I had my books with me I’d have more pictures. But here’s something I found:



If your oil film is too thin, and your particulate contaminants is larger than your fluid film gap,  then you will start seeing abrasive wear.

If your fluid film gap is too thin, you can see either mirroring, like this:



This engine has 1.2 million miles on it before we opened it up.  The cross hatching on the sleeves was completely mirrored over.

Or on the bearing you will start seeing pitting from the viscosity loss, and the oil literally getting turned to stone from the pressure:



Thus the pitting. Those bearings should have looked like this:



Worn, mirrored but not pitted.  (These are the bearings out of the 1.2m mile engine.  The other ones were out of a Cummins 5.9 that had spun the bearings due to maintenance plan issues.)

They sorta work like this:  



On your major bearing parts, the oil actually forms a film. Typically has 3 layers inside of this film.  One against the bearing, one against the shaft, one layer in the middle. Due to the differences in surface tension.  This is how fluid friction works.


None of this, has anything to do with being “too slick” and breaking in engine rings.  If anything the rings “don’t break in” because there’s less carbon development around them from the blow by burning off. Which… is a good thing.  

But anyone who uses “too slick” to describe full synthetic oil… like I’ll talk to, and try to help them understand. But chances are I’d be better off telling my cat about full synthetic 5w30’s advantages over a 10w30.


Sorry for getting way too technical about this lubricant, I've got a touch of viscoustism.
Link Posted: 2/22/2024 1:19:16 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



I gotta let the wrong answers go for a bit.
View Quote


Of course! It's GD so have to try to wait till pg 2
Link Posted: 2/22/2024 1:23:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


lol I never buy their shit but that doesn’t stop them from coming by and dropping off price lists and refrigerator magnets
View Quote


lol they might come less often if you throw their stuff into the trash can while they are still there
Link Posted: 2/22/2024 6:48:50 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Okay instead of an extensive edit. I’m going to make this post.  Let me dig back into the archives.


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/20190624_104040-991498.jpg

So a lubricant lowers friction. This is true for all lubricants. Picking the proper viscosity grade is key to determining your friction. As, too thick will make more friction. And too thin will make more friction and wear.


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/90AD24FB-76C7-4904-A4F8-B0FBCCFEBD6E-1159078.png

This is your different types of lubrication regiments.


As you can see, touching / sometimes touching / never touching.

Most of the time you want to stay between mixed and hydrodynamic.  The problem with mixed, is particulate contamination.  If I had my books with me I’d have more pictures. But here’s something I found:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/IMG_4080-3137485.png

If your oil film is too thin, and your particulate contaminants is larger than your fluid film gap,  then you will start seeing abrasive wear.

If your fluid film gap is too thin, you can see either mirroring, like this:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/IMG_3784-3100968.jpg

This engine has 1.2 million miles on it before we opened it up.  The cross hatching on the sleeves was completely mirrored over.

Or on the bearing you will start seeing pitting from the viscosity loss, and the oil literally getting turned to stone from the pressure:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/207620C8-33B6-4946-891A-01163CD26C44-1140726.jpg

Thus the pitting. Those bearings should have looked like this:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/IMG_3790-3137490.jpg

Worn, mirrored but not pitted.  (These are the bearings out of the 1.2m mile engine.  The other ones were out of a Cummins 5.9 that had spun the bearings due to maintenance plan issues.)

They sorta work like this:  

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/050B032E-6E32-43CC-BEBA-90E4DB167545-1158965.jpg

On your major bearing parts, the oil actually forms a film. Typically has 3 layers inside of this film.  One against the bearing, one against the shaft, one layer in the middle. Due to the differences in surface tension.  This is how fluid friction works.


None of this, has anything to do with being “too slick” and breaking in engine rings.  If anything the rings “don’t break in” because there’s less carbon development around them from the blow by burning off. Which… is a good thing.  

But anyone who uses “too slick” to describe full synthetic oil… like I’ll talk to, and try to help them understand. But chances are I’d be better off telling my cat about full synthetic 5w30’s advantages over a 10w30.


Sorry for getting way too technical about this lubricant, I've got a touch of viscoustism.
View Quote


Everyone has their nerd garden, at least yours is educational
Link Posted: 2/23/2024 12:30:48 AM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Everyone has their nerd garden, at least yours is educational
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Okay instead of an extensive edit. I’m going to make this post.  Let me dig back into the archives.


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/20190624_104040-991498.jpg

So a lubricant lowers friction. This is true for all lubricants. Picking the proper viscosity grade is key to determining your friction. As, too thick will make more friction. And too thin will make more friction and wear.


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/90AD24FB-76C7-4904-A4F8-B0FBCCFEBD6E-1159078.png

This is your different types of lubrication regiments.


As you can see, touching / sometimes touching / never touching.

Most of the time you want to stay between mixed and hydrodynamic.  The problem with mixed, is particulate contamination.  If I had my books with me I’d have more pictures. But here’s something I found:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/IMG_4080-3137485.png

If your oil film is too thin, and your particulate contaminants is larger than your fluid film gap,  then you will start seeing abrasive wear.

If your fluid film gap is too thin, you can see either mirroring, like this:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/IMG_3784-3100968.jpg

This engine has 1.2 million miles on it before we opened it up.  The cross hatching on the sleeves was completely mirrored over.

Or on the bearing you will start seeing pitting from the viscosity loss, and the oil literally getting turned to stone from the pressure:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/207620C8-33B6-4946-891A-01163CD26C44-1140726.jpg

Thus the pitting. Those bearings should have looked like this:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/IMG_3790-3137490.jpg

Worn, mirrored but not pitted.  (These are the bearings out of the 1.2m mile engine.  The other ones were out of a Cummins 5.9 that had spun the bearings due to maintenance plan issues.)

They sorta work like this:  

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/050B032E-6E32-43CC-BEBA-90E4DB167545-1158965.jpg

On your major bearing parts, the oil actually forms a film. Typically has 3 layers inside of this film.  One against the bearing, one against the shaft, one layer in the middle. Due to the differences in surface tension.  This is how fluid friction works.


None of this, has anything to do with being “too slick” and breaking in engine rings.  If anything the rings “don’t break in” because there’s less carbon development around them from the blow by burning off. Which… is a good thing.  

But anyone who uses “too slick” to describe full synthetic oil… like I’ll talk to, and try to help them understand. But chances are I’d be better off telling my cat about full synthetic 5w30’s advantages over a 10w30.


Sorry for getting way too technical about this lubricant, I've got a touch of viscoustism.


Everyone has their nerd garden, at least yours is educational



Mine uh… pays bills. And I make pretty good money off it. Not saying I’m the most wealthy person on this forum - I know I’m not.  But, I’m not hurting yet.


The least I can do is share info that is other wise hard to get. As a lot of the stuff I talk about isn’t really Google-able.
Link Posted: 2/23/2024 12:34:31 AM EDT
[#32]
Sure, all the old carbon and gunk could get cleaned out and the hole that was already there could start leaking.

It's like if your teeth were held in by tartar and you cleaned it all off.
Link Posted: 2/23/2024 12:58:48 AM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:

He is correct.
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I figure it is the same idea as not changing tranny fluid if you haven't done it in 100k+ miles. If your transmission is on the verge of failure, then changing the fluid may kill it since the disintegrated clutch material is floating in the burned out fluid is the only thing making it work. But if it is in good shape, changing fluid will keep it healthy.
Link Posted: 2/23/2024 1:23:03 AM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Okay instead of an extensive edit. I’m going to make this post.  Let me dig back into the archives.


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/20190624_104040-991498.jpg

So a lubricant lowers friction. This is true for all lubricants. Picking the proper viscosity grade is key to determining your friction. As, too thick will make more friction. And too thin will make more friction and wear.


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/90AD24FB-76C7-4904-A4F8-B0FBCCFEBD6E-1159078.png

This is your different types of lubrication regiments.


As you can see, touching / sometimes touching / never touching.

Most of the time you want to stay between mixed and hydrodynamic.  The problem with mixed, is particulate contamination.  If I had my books with me I’d have more pictures. But here’s something I found:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/IMG_4080-3137485.png

If your oil film is too thin, and your particulate contaminants is larger than your fluid film gap,  then you will start seeing abrasive wear.

If your fluid film gap is too thin, you can see either mirroring, like this:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/IMG_3784-3100968.jpg

This engine has 1.2 million miles on it before we opened it up.  The cross hatching on the sleeves was completely mirrored over.

Or on the bearing you will start seeing pitting from the viscosity loss, and the oil literally getting turned to stone from the pressure:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/207620C8-33B6-4946-891A-01163CD26C44-1140726.jpg

Thus the pitting. Those bearings should have looked like this:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/IMG_3790-3137490.jpg

Worn, mirrored but not pitted.  (These are the bearings out of the 1.2m mile engine.  The other ones were out of a Cummins 5.9 that had spun the bearings due to maintenance plan issues.)

They sorta work like this:  

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/050B032E-6E32-43CC-BEBA-90E4DB167545-1158965.jpg

On your major bearing parts, the oil actually forms a film. Typically has 3 layers inside of this film.  One against the bearing, one against the shaft, one layer in the middle. Due to the differences in surface tension.  This is how fluid friction works.


None of this, has anything to do with being “too slick” and breaking in engine rings.  If anything the rings “don’t break in” because there’s less carbon development around them from the blow by burning off. Which… is a good thing.  

But anyone who uses “too slick” to describe full synthetic oil… like I’ll talk to, and try to help them understand. But chances are I’d be better off telling my cat about full synthetic 5w30’s advantages over a 10w30.


Sorry for getting way too technical about this lubricant, I've got a touch of viscoustism.
View Quote



I like this info. Thank you.

It does remind me of school though! It's fun to get me geek on after chasing imaginary problems for people all day.

Question, best way to get rid of lifter noise on startup. They rattle for a moment. Pretty sure they are bleeding down as the truck sits. If I have to replace them, so be it. Using 10w-30 Castrol Edge synthetic. Same weight as factory recommended.

Car makes a similar but I think it's air in the injectors as it didn't do that if I let the fuel pump prime for night. Lifters are a known thing in the truck.
Link Posted: 2/23/2024 2:01:44 AM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



I like this info. Thank you.

It does remind me of school though! It's fun to get me geek on after chasing imaginary problems for people all day.

Question, best way to get rid of lifter noise on startup. They rattle for a moment. Pretty sure they are bleeding down as the truck sits. If I have to replace them, so be it. Using 10w-30 Castrol Edge synthetic. Same weight as factory recommended.

Car makes a similar but I think it's air in the injectors as it didn't do that if I let the fuel pump prime for night. Lifters are a known thing in the truck.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Okay instead of an extensive edit. I’m going to make this post.  Let me dig back into the archives.


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/20190624_104040-991498.jpg

So a lubricant lowers friction. This is true for all lubricants. Picking the proper viscosity grade is key to determining your friction. As, too thick will make more friction. And too thin will make more friction and wear.


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/90AD24FB-76C7-4904-A4F8-B0FBCCFEBD6E-1159078.png

This is your different types of lubrication regiments.


As you can see, touching / sometimes touching / never touching.

Most of the time you want to stay between mixed and hydrodynamic.  The problem with mixed, is particulate contamination.  If I had my books with me I’d have more pictures. But here’s something I found:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/IMG_4080-3137485.png

If your oil film is too thin, and your particulate contaminants is larger than your fluid film gap,  then you will start seeing abrasive wear.

If your fluid film gap is too thin, you can see either mirroring, like this:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/IMG_3784-3100968.jpg

This engine has 1.2 million miles on it before we opened it up.  The cross hatching on the sleeves was completely mirrored over.

Or on the bearing you will start seeing pitting from the viscosity loss, and the oil literally getting turned to stone from the pressure:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/207620C8-33B6-4946-891A-01163CD26C44-1140726.jpg

Thus the pitting. Those bearings should have looked like this:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/IMG_3790-3137490.jpg

Worn, mirrored but not pitted.  (These are the bearings out of the 1.2m mile engine.  The other ones were out of a Cummins 5.9 that had spun the bearings due to maintenance plan issues.)

They sorta work like this:  

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/050B032E-6E32-43CC-BEBA-90E4DB167545-1158965.jpg

On your major bearing parts, the oil actually forms a film. Typically has 3 layers inside of this film.  One against the bearing, one against the shaft, one layer in the middle. Due to the differences in surface tension.  This is how fluid friction works.


None of this, has anything to do with being “too slick” and breaking in engine rings.  If anything the rings “don’t break in” because there’s less carbon development around them from the blow by burning off. Which… is a good thing.  

But anyone who uses “too slick” to describe full synthetic oil… like I’ll talk to, and try to help them understand. But chances are I’d be better off telling my cat about full synthetic 5w30’s advantages over a 10w30.


Sorry for getting way too technical about this lubricant, I've got a touch of viscoustism.



I like this info. Thank you.

It does remind me of school though! It's fun to get me geek on after chasing imaginary problems for people all day.

Question, best way to get rid of lifter noise on startup. They rattle for a moment. Pretty sure they are bleeding down as the truck sits. If I have to replace them, so be it. Using 10w-30 Castrol Edge synthetic. Same weight as factory recommended.

Car makes a similar but I think it's air in the injectors as it didn't do that if I let the fuel pump prime for night. Lifters are a known thing in the truck.



Go to a 5w30 or 0w30 with a higher moly content.  

Lifters will tap until the oil film forms at the proper viscosity.  An XXw30 is the same viscosity at 100c / 212f. Whether it’s 0w30 or 10w30.

Faster the oil flows = the better film barrier you will get faster = less tapping.  To really over simplify it.  

Moly because it tends to stick around after the oil drops down on shut off.  And forms a bit of a barrier like ZDDP does.

Tapping doesn’t mean much. Because you have your antiwear already built up on the part.




So that’s built up on the microscopic level around your parts. And will “wear off” before metal does.
Link Posted: 2/23/2024 2:30:36 AM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:




That's where I was gonna go...

My last truck, over 300K miles and had a rear main seal leak that I took to get fixed and they couldn't fix it (well, they were a shitty shop that I helped get shut down )
View Quote


JEEP Inline 6?
Link Posted: 2/23/2024 7:53:38 AM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Mine uh… pays bills. And I make pretty good money off it. Not saying I’m the most wealthy person on this forum - I know I’m not.  But, I’m not hurting yet.


The least I can do is share info that is other wise hard to get. As a lot of the stuff I talk about isn’t really Google-able.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Okay instead of an extensive edit. I’m going to make this post.  Let me dig back into the archives.


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/20190624_104040-991498.jpg

So a lubricant lowers friction. This is true for all lubricants. Picking the proper viscosity grade is key to determining your friction. As, too thick will make more friction. And too thin will make more friction and wear.


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/90AD24FB-76C7-4904-A4F8-B0FBCCFEBD6E-1159078.png

This is your different types of lubrication regiments.


As you can see, touching / sometimes touching / never touching.

Most of the time you want to stay between mixed and hydrodynamic.  The problem with mixed, is particulate contamination.  If I had my books with me I’d have more pictures. But here’s something I found:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/IMG_4080-3137485.png

If your oil film is too thin, and your particulate contaminants is larger than your fluid film gap,  then you will start seeing abrasive wear.

If your fluid film gap is too thin, you can see either mirroring, like this:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/IMG_3784-3100968.jpg

This engine has 1.2 million miles on it before we opened it up.  The cross hatching on the sleeves was completely mirrored over.

Or on the bearing you will start seeing pitting from the viscosity loss, and the oil literally getting turned to stone from the pressure:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/207620C8-33B6-4946-891A-01163CD26C44-1140726.jpg

Thus the pitting. Those bearings should have looked like this:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/IMG_3790-3137490.jpg

Worn, mirrored but not pitted.  (These are the bearings out of the 1.2m mile engine.  The other ones were out of a Cummins 5.9 that had spun the bearings due to maintenance plan issues.)

They sorta work like this:  

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/050B032E-6E32-43CC-BEBA-90E4DB167545-1158965.jpg

On your major bearing parts, the oil actually forms a film. Typically has 3 layers inside of this film.  One against the bearing, one against the shaft, one layer in the middle. Due to the differences in surface tension.  This is how fluid friction works.


None of this, has anything to do with being “too slick” and breaking in engine rings.  If anything the rings “don’t break in” because there’s less carbon development around them from the blow by burning off. Which… is a good thing.  

But anyone who uses “too slick” to describe full synthetic oil… like I’ll talk to, and try to help them understand. But chances are I’d be better off telling my cat about full synthetic 5w30’s advantages over a 10w30.


Sorry for getting way too technical about this lubricant, I've got a touch of viscoustism.


Everyone has their nerd garden, at least yours is educational



Mine uh… pays bills. And I make pretty good money off it. Not saying I’m the most wealthy person on this forum - I know I’m not.  But, I’m not hurting yet.


The least I can do is share info that is other wise hard to get. As a lot of the stuff I talk about isn’t really Google-able.


Hey I appreciate that you throw the knowledge out, I've learned up a few things along the way. Watching the the occasional smack down is pretty entertaining as well
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