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Posted: 8/17/2004 9:16:24 AM EST
Since the topic has been broached (see top sticky post) about the ATF temporarly extending the ban or comming up with some f-ed up way to mess with us. Does anyone know if we will get some sort of official notification that the ban has lapsed? Would the ATF notify dealers and/or the public on what we can and can not do?
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 9:55:31 AM EST
The ATF doesn't not make laws. The ATF cannot extend the ban. The ATF will not give notice the ban has died. It's dead now and will be buried 9/14. This is the only notification you will get.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 10:20:13 AM EST
Look for all the hue and cry about "baby killing machines" and "streets running with blood" from your favorite liberal news outlet. That's your notification.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 8:13:25 AM EST
So on 9-14, I can go to my nearest gun shop and order me a bushy M-4 and that is all there is to it?
There will be no dispute on the dealers side? He will know it's over? Will they be stocking them shortly after?
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:07:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dragnet:
So on 9-14, I can go to my nearest gun shop and order me a bushy M-4 and that is all there is to it?
There will be no dispute on the dealers side? He will know it's over? Will they be stocking them shortly after?



There are plenty of dealers out there who are morons. I would not expect all of them to know.

but if he knows his stuff you will be able to buy one.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 9:51:26 PM EST
Can anyone point me to a good south florida dealer?
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 5:12:17 AM EST
WHOA! WHOA! WHOA!

Unless ATF comes out with a ruling, I don't think ANY gun dealer is gonna take a chance and start handing out M4's with impugnity.

I was just talking to Clint McKee (Fulton Armory) yesterday, regarding a FH w/bayo lug installation on my M1A after the sunset. We talked for quite some time, and his position, which is probably most, is to wait until ATF comes out with an official ruling. Until then, I don't think you'll see much from FFL's who wish to keep their FFL.

As for me, I'm gonna keep the "bad" shit off my Post weapons 'til ATF has something in writing which states I can put it on. There is no guarantee on when or if they will, that's the GOTCHA!
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 5:58:12 AM EST
when the ban expires it is as if it never was, open season for all the features you want
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 6:09:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2004 10:01:52 AM EST by RAMBOSKY]
Is ATF now "ruling" our country? Does Congress know this? How about the President? I know, the FBI, CIA along with the ATF have taken over our country!
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 6:18:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2004 6:19:26 AM EST by DigDug]
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 6:24:04 AM EST
ATF RULES!!!
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 8:36:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By DigDug:

Originally Posted By tarfu64:
WHOA! WHOA! WHOA!

Unless ATF comes out with a ruling, I don't think ANY gun dealer is gonna take a chance and start handing out M4's with impugnity.

I was just talking to Clint McKee (Fulton Armory) yesterday, regarding a FH w/bayo lug installation on my M1A after the sunset. We talked for quite some time, and his position, which is probably most, is to wait until ATF comes out with an official ruling. Until then, I don't think you'll see much from FFL's who wish to keep their FFL.

As for me, I'm gonna keep the "bad" shit off my Post weapons 'til ATF has something in writing which states I can put it on. There is no guarantee on when or if they will, that's the GOTCHA!



I don't know Clint, but he is misinformed. How can the ATF rule on a law that does not exist?



Thats suprising usally Clint is more well informed then that.

Once the law expires, its not there. Nothing to charge you with for making a gun with a flashhider AND bayonet lug. No law to charge you with anything , no law to make a "ruling" on. Once its repealed, it's gone. It cannot be made any more clear.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 11:20:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2004 11:21:27 AM EST by tarfu64]
ANGST:From the Horse's mouth. Clint himself had this very discussion with me, and although I found it kind of quirky, I figured a guy who has an FFL and makes a business out of doing things which naturally attracts attention of the ATF (making firearms), I figure I'm the misinformed one. I take him for his word. If he's gonna wait for a ruling I'm in no position to argue.

RAMBOSKY, I do't know how half of the shit ATF gets away with happens. And no, I don't believe they are running the country. I'm sure you have dealt with them at some time. I know I have. You call them, and ask the same question to two different people and you get two different answers. These guys interpret the laws as they see fit, and the judges go along.

You can't be this naive. You honestly believe they play by rules/laws?? Have you not heard of the crap they pull on law abiding gun owners? Do you have no idea what they think of us, let alone Congress? Are you kidding? You think Congress wants to micro-manage these guys, and find out what they are doing? You want Ted, Chucky and Dianne to come to your aid against the ATF 'cause they didn't play right?

I know, you'll take them to court and no doubt "win". But at what cost?

I agree. Once the law sunsets there never was one. But, if more learned folk than I are waiting for the Feds to interpret the new rules once the law goes away (IF it actually does, you never know!), who am I to quibble?
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 12:17:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 12:37:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2004 3:55:51 PM EST by tarfu64]
Point taken, but from Clint Smith of Fulton??? I dunno.

Sorry, Edited to add "Clint McKEE" of Fulton. My bad.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 2:12:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2004 2:16:10 PM EST by ANGST]

Originally Posted By tarfu64:
Point taken, but from Clint Smith of Fulton??? I dunno.



From the thread : http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=265426



Walt Kuleck (Fulton Armory) posted this in another forum, which validates the interpretation of "sunsetting" as "it never happenned".

FYI, from the latest issue of Firearms Business

“Assault Weapon” Ban Expiration

"The likely consequences for industry of the expiration of the 1994 ban on so-called “assault weapons” were detailed by Teresa Ficaretta, ATF associate chief counsel, explosives, firearms & arson. If the law sunsets on September 13th, ATF would most likely issue an open letter to the industry advising that the restrictions on post-ban over ten-round law enforcement magazines as well as those for receivers of those firearms presently designated under federal law as so-called ‘assault weapons’ would “become meaningless,” Ficaretta said. The result would be that such magazines “could be freely sold.”

"Ficaretta cautioned however that the restrictions in federal law on the importation of firearms designated as “semiautomatic asssault weapons” would remain in place after September 13th as these restrictions are contained in a different section of federal law that will not expire."




Seems like Fulton is contradicting itself.

This had been hashed over in 1000+ threads in the last month alone . When the law is gone the law is gone. How hard is that to understand ??
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 4:03:28 PM EST
Brother Angst: I understand. My whole point isn't that the law won't disappear, it most certainly will. With it goes the restrictions. I understand all that, and I also agree-you are preaching to the choir. My issue isn't with the law...it's with the ATF's interpretation of the sunset. The associate chief counsel even said "likely consequences". I know I'm splitting hairs here, but please understand this is the ATF we're talking about here.

Again, you're preaching to the choir on all this stuff. I'm just concerned about when the ATF is going to come around.

My .02, I think this horse has been pulverized.
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 10:04:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By tarfu64:
I'm just concerned about when the ATF is going to come around.



Lemme put it to you this way:

"The people vs. tarfu"

"Tarfu is in violation of section, uhhhhh, errrrrr, ummmmmm. Well, there's a flashhhh, uhhhhhh....nevermind judge."

case dismissed (or never got there)

A *judge* or jury decides if you are in violation of a law/statute. With no law on the books how can you be in violation?!?!?!? Violation of an opinion of the BATFE?!?!?!?

It's a court of- read operative word- "LAW"- not opinion.
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