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Posted: 7/23/2013 3:01:48 AM EST
I've got a TRS-25 red dot on my HD shotgun.......it makes it easier for me to shoot, I don't have to have my face all the way down touching the stock like I did with the factory bead sight, and it allows me to shoot with both eyes open. So far, I've never had a problem with it, and I thought it was a great optic for an HD shotgun.

Yesterday I caught a raccoon in my live trap on by my chicken coop, and I was too lazy to pull my .22 out of the safe to take care of it, so I pulled my 12ga out from under the bed and walked outside to the live trap. As soon as I went from the 75deg AC to the 90 degree outside with high humidity, the red dot (and the entire gun) got covered in condensation. The red dot was pretty much useless until it warmed up and reached the safe temp as the ambient air. Sure, I would wipe off the lenses with my shirt to clear it up a bit, but within seconds it was back to all fogged over. As soon as it fogged up, it was worthless.

I can't think of many reasons why in a home defense situation you would go from inside to outside, but I found out that having a red dot optic on a firearm in that kind of situation makes the optic worthless. Just one more reason to stay with iron sights....simple, reliable, and they always work.


Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:04:27 AM EST
Could you at least still see the dot? Generally they can be used as an occluded Eye optic, you don't need to see all the way through it
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:05:27 AM EST
Buy a quality red dot like Aimpoint.....
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:07:18 AM EST
Would like to experiment with that, but it simply never gets that humid here in the desert.

I would have assumed any quality optic would have anti-fog coatings that would make such problems as you describe impossible, or at least greatly mitigate same. But I don't own your optic, all I have is an EOTech and an Aimpoint. Being military-grade, I presume they'd have anti-fog treatments but now I definitely want to find out!

I think there's a corollary here, to the old saying about a map vs. a GPS: Just as a map with a bullet hole in it is still a map, iron sights with condensation on them are still iron sights.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:07:30 AM EST
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Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Buy a quality red dot like Aimpoint.....
View Quote

Yup.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:08:23 AM EST
I dont buy shitty red dots so I'm good to go.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:08:37 AM EST
what kind of dot?
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:09:40 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Objekt:
Would like to experiment with that, but it simply never gets that humid here in the desert.

I would have assumed any quality optic would have anti-fog coatings that would make such problems as you describe impossible, or at least greatly mitigate same. But I don't own your optic, all I have is an EOTech and an Aimpoint. Being military-grade, I presume they'd have anti-fog treatments but now I definitely want to find out!

I think there's a corollary here, to the old saying about a map vs. a GPS: Just as a map with a bullet hole in it is still a map, iron sights with condensation on them are still iron sights.
View Quote

Set your AC to 68 and cover the air vent in the bathroom and jam a towel under the door. Turn your shower on full hot.

Set rifle with Aimpoint or Eotech over an air vent.

Wait 15 minutes, then introduce rifle to bathroom.

Instant fog test.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:09:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2013 3:10:57 AM EST by nigmalg]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Buy a quality red dot like Aimpoint.....
View Quote


My T-1 fogged up nicely going from 72 degrees to 90.

ETA: I didn't test to see if it was only external. I'm sure it was.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:10:05 AM EST
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Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Buy a quality red dot like Aimpoint.....
View Quote


+1 my eotech never did this in all kinds of shitty Ohio weather.
Try using some anti fog or rain-x on your optic.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:10:08 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ciraxis:
what kind of dot?
View Quote

Bushnell TRS-25
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:10:14 AM EST
Yeah.....

Aimpoints don't do that
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:10:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2013 3:12:09 AM EST by Aimless]
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:12:27 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By masfonos:
Could you at least still see the dot? Generally they can be used as an occluded Eye optic, you don't need to see all the way through it
View Quote


Nope, the fog was so thick on it that even turned up on the highest setting I could not see the dot.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:12:32 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Buy a quality red dot like Aimpoint.....
View Quote


+1
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:12:59 AM EST
This thread should be renamed "Another reason why to BUY A QUALITY red dot optic and why its a good idea"
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:14:05 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Buy a quality red dot like Aimpoint.....
View Quote


I'm pretty sure any red dot with cool gas on the inside and hot humid air on the outside is going to fog up.... No matter how " good" it is.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:16:04 AM EST
Guys it doesnt matter how expensive your site is, the cold glass is going to sweat if it is introduced into a hot humid environment. My $1000 Canon L lenses do this too.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:17:05 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nigmalg:


My T-1 fogged up nicely going from 72 degrees to 90.

ETA: I didn't test to see if it was only external. I'm sure it was.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nigmalg:
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Buy a quality red dot like Aimpoint.....


My T-1 fogged up nicely going from 72 degrees to 90.

ETA: I didn't test to see if it was only external. I'm sure it was.


Yes....that's what my trs-25 did.....only external fog. It's nitrogen filled, but that still doesn't prevent external fog. Like I said..... The entire gun was even wet.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:18:19 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:18:41 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By imq707s:


Yes....that's what my trs-25 did.....only external fog. It's nitrogen filled, but that still doesn't prevent external fog. Like I said..... The entire gun was even wet.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By imq707s:
Originally Posted By nigmalg:
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Buy a quality red dot like Aimpoint.....


My T-1 fogged up nicely going from 72 degrees to 90.

ETA: I didn't test to see if it was only external. I'm sure it was.


Yes....that's what my trs-25 did.....only external fog. It's nitrogen filled, but that still doesn't prevent external fog. Like I said..... The entire gun was even wet.


I'm also interested in some sort of "solution" to this. I could still see the dot among the fog, but it wasn't exactly ideal.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:18:45 AM EST
This is why QD mounts are important when shooting raccoons.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:19:01 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
I dont buy shitty red dots so I'm good to go.
View Quote

Roger this.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:19:23 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nigmalg:


My T-1 fogged up nicely going from 72 degrees to 90.

ETA: I didn't test to see if it was only external. I'm sure it was.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nigmalg:
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Buy a quality red dot like Aimpoint.....


My T-1 fogged up nicely going from 72 degrees to 90.

ETA: I didn't test to see if it was only external. I'm sure it was.




Originally Posted By txgunguy:
Yeah.....

Aimpoints don't do that



Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:20:12 AM EST
Nothing wrong with a bushnell TRs-25. Good red dot for the money. I've never paid any attention to it fogging up but it's bright enough you'd have to paint the glass not to see the dot. I would expect a mod or site staff to know about bushnell red dots
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:20:32 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aimless:
some kind of $ 100 chinese red dot Bushnell sells

not sure price matters, it's the exterior that fogging

althogh i have taken aimpoints out of my warm car in the winter and not seen that. my glasses do that sometimes
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Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By Ciraxis:
what kind of dot?
some kind of $ 100 chinese red dot Bushnell sells

not sure price matters, it's the exterior that fogging

althogh i have taken aimpoints out of my warm car in the winter and not seen that. my glasses do that sometimes


That's backwards. It shouldnt fog going from warm to cold. thats not how physics works. Did it fog when you brought it inside after being in the cold?
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:20:32 AM EST
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Originally Posted By fatcat4620:







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Originally Posted By fatcat4620:
Originally Posted By nigmalg:
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Buy a quality red dot like Aimpoint.....


My T-1 fogged up nicely going from 72 degrees to 90.

ETA: I didn't test to see if it was only external. I'm sure it was.




Originally Posted By txgunguy:
Yeah.....

Aimpoints don't do that





Well there are two possibilities:

1. My Aimpoint is broken, fake, or somehow malfing.
2. Aimpoints also fog up if brought into high enough humidity.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:21:33 AM EST
If the glass is colder than the dewpoint, it WILL fog. Even the most expensive optic cannot violate thermodynamics. This is EXTERNAL fogging, internal fogging is something completely different.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:24:02 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nigmalg:


Well there are two possibilities:

1. My Aimpoint is broken, fake, or somehow malfing.
2. Aimpoints also fog up if brought into high enough humidity.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nigmalg:
Originally Posted By fatcat4620:
Originally Posted By nigmalg:
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Buy a quality red dot like Aimpoint.....


My T-1 fogged up nicely going from 72 degrees to 90.

ETA: I didn't test to see if it was only external. I'm sure it was.




Originally Posted By txgunguy:
Yeah.....

Aimpoints don't do that





Well there are two possibilities:

1. My Aimpoint is broken, fake, or somehow malfing.
2. Aimpoints also fog up if brought into high enough humidity.


Obviously number one. The fan boys have spoken!
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:25:11 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By prometheus885:
This thread should be renamed "Another reason why to BUY A QUALITY red dot optic and why its a good idea"
View Quote


You guys keep say get an aim point..... But any optic transferred from 75 deg air to 90 deg air at 90% humidity will fog. I'm in the Midwest....not the desert. Like others have said....do the fog test in the bathroom with the shower going...,an aim point will get external fog. It's physics....
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:26:55 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By imq707s:


You guys keep say get an aim point..... But any optic transferred from 75 deg air to 90 deg air at 90% humidity will fog. I'm in the Midwest....not the desert. Like others have said....do the fog test in the bathroom with the shower going...,an aim point will get external fog. It's physics....
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Originally Posted By imq707s:
Originally Posted By prometheus885:
This thread should be renamed "Another reason why to BUY A QUALITY red dot optic and why its a good idea"


You guys keep say get an aim point..... But any optic transferred from 75 deg air to 90 deg air at 90% humidity will fog. I'm in the Midwest....not the desert. Like others have said....do the fog test in the bathroom with the shower going...,an aim point will get external fog. It's physics....


How do those of us with extreme humidity guard against that? Any anti-fog treatment safe for lenses? I wouldn't mind the water beading off.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:27:36 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By offshorebear:
This is why QD mounts are important when shooting raccoons.
View Quote


Very true. I knew a guy who lost a shot on a trophy raccoon once because of a fogged optic. It was a real lesson for him...especially since it could have ended so badly if the animal had decided to attack instead of continuing to paw through the garbage.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:29:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2013 3:31:01 AM EST by waterglass]
Laser.

Or just point shoot, if you cant hit a moveing man sized target while moveing at 20-30 feet point shooting a shotgun or rifle from the shoulder, you got problems anyway.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:30:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2013 3:31:25 AM EST by RocketmanOU]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
If the glass is colder than the dewpoint, it WILL fog. Even the most expensive optic cannot violate thermodynamics. This is EXTERNAL fogging, internal fogging is something completely different.
View Quote



But, but, I paid $500 for my red dot! It doesn't have to obey your stupid laws!



ETA: No, seriously, guys. Buying a more expensive optic will not solve this problem.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:32:09 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
Guys it doesnt matter how expensive your site is, the cold glass is going to sweat if it is introduced into a hot humid environment. My $1000 Canon L lenses do this too.
View Quote



Yep......
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:33:39 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Buy a quality red dot like Aimpoint.....
View Quote

right because aimpoint glass never fogs up!!!
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:35:50 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By masfonos:
Could you at least still see the dot? Generally they can be used as an occluded Eye optic, you don't need to see all the way through it
View Quote
I don't have a problem shooting my aimpoint with the front cover on. As long as both eyes are open you still see the dot.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:38:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2013 3:40:57 AM EST by The_Beer_Slayer]
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:39:06 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nigmalg:


How do those of us with extreme humidity guard against that? Any anti-fog treatment safe for lenses? I wouldn't mind the water beading off.
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Originally Posted By nigmalg:
Originally Posted By imq707s:
Originally Posted By prometheus885:
This thread should be renamed "Another reason why to BUY A QUALITY red dot optic and why its a good idea"


You guys keep say get an aim point..... But any optic transferred from 75 deg air to 90 deg air at 90% humidity will fog. I'm in the Midwest....not the desert. Like others have said....do the fog test in the bathroom with the shower going...,an aim point will get external fog. It's physics....


How do those of us with extreme humidity guard against that? Any anti-fog treatment safe for lenses? I wouldn't mind the water beading off.


Don't use Air Conditioning and you won't have the problem.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:39:49 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Buy a quality red dot like Aimpoint.....
View Quote



This...
My Aimpoint does NOT fog.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:43:45 AM EST
I lost a deer many years ago this way. Very cold day. Deer was moving though the trees. I quick walked up a ridge to get a better view. I was breathing heavy. As I brought the rifle up I exhaled on the scope. I couldn't see the deer and the deer ran away to live another day. I'm going to have to get one of these Aimpoints now since they don't fog.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:45:23 AM EST
Home remedy anti-fog:

Get yourself a Q-tip and a bar of soap.
Dampen the Q-Tip.
Rub it on the soap a little bit.
Rub the soapy end of the Q-Tip on the optics' lens.
Use the unsoapy end of the Q-Tip to wipe off excess soap, if any.

The idea is to leave a thin transparent layer of soap on the lens.

This works on bathroom mirrors and car rear view mirrors also.
But for those you can use your finger and a paper towel instead of the Q-Tip.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:45:39 AM EST
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Originally Posted By HeliBoy:



This...
My Aimpoint does NOT fog.
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Originally Posted By HeliBoy:
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Buy a quality red dot like Aimpoint.....



This...
My Aimpoint does NOT fog.



External fog... i.e. Condensation on the exterior of the glass.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:45:45 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HeliBoy:



This...
My Aimpoint does NOT fog.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HeliBoy:
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Buy a quality red dot like Aimpoint.....



This...
My Aimpoint does NOT fog.



Oh how so many of you will be dissappointed
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:47:24 AM EST
Interesting topic. Link to eotech site covers it.

http://www.eotech-inc.com/product-faqs

Just scroll down.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:50:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2013 3:52:18 AM EST by imq707s]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HeliBoy:



This...
My Aimpoint does NOT fog.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HeliBoy:
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Buy a quality red dot like Aimpoint.....



This...
My Aimpoint does NOT fog.



If the temperature difference is big enough, and humidity is high enough...yes it will. It's physics. We are talking external fog.... Not internal.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:51:07 AM EST
Aimpoint COMP M2
First picture 68 degrees inside
Second picture 85 degrees outside

Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:52:43 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History

Can still see the dot and probably use it for what I'd need it for. Doesn't count!
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:54:17 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By imq707s:



If the temperature difference is big enough, and humidity is high enough...yes it will. It's physics. We are talking external fog.... Not internal.
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Originally Posted By imq707s:
Originally Posted By HeliBoy:
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Buy a quality red dot like Aimpoint.....



This...
My Aimpoint does NOT fog.



If the temperature difference is big enough, and humidity is high enough...yes it will. It's physics. We are talking external fog.... Not internal.


This every thing will fog. Hell when I take my bike from basement to to outside it is covered in dew. No high end anything can fix that.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:54:24 AM EST
It's not just temperature difference.... It's humidity. If the air is dry you will not have an issue....if its 90%+ humidity it's a different story.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:55:59 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By imq707s:
It's not just temperature difference.... It's humidity. If the air is dry you will not have an issue....if its 90%+ humidity it's a different story.
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Can you grab my fog test and throw it in the OP for people?
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