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Posted: 3/7/2015 7:14:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2015 7:16:44 PM EDT by nightdh]
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 7:20:48 PM EDT
I was working about 10 miles from there on Thursday when it happened, and I was working on the railroad. FRA inspectors everywhere
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 7:24:36 PM EDT
Hadn't heard about this one. Last I knew of was the WV derailment.
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 7:25:34 PM EDT
One of Buffet's trains at that.

I hope no one was hurt but but there is a hint of irony given that he is a big Obama supporter.
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 7:26:18 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By slimslade:
Hadn't heard about this one. Last I knew of was the WV derailment.
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The bad thing is that the veto of the pipeline could be tied to profits of someone who owns a lot of rail cars for carrying crude. Just an opinion of course.
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 7:26:56 PM EDT
Good thing it was a train load of oil, I mean can you imagine the media reports if it were a train load of coal....
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 7:27:14 PM EDT
While this is a perfect example of why we need a pipeline they will double down on the stupid and demand we ban oil altogether, you know, because of the feels.
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 7:27:51 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By LesBaer45:
One of Buffet's trains at that.

I hope no one was hurt but but there is a hint of irony given that he is a big Obama supporter.
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Big + 1 on that. He bought the railroad to capitalize on the oil shipments, His Boy Obama vetoed the pipeline. Now, Buffet's gamble pays off. In Spades too. Laughing my ass off here.
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 7:48:29 PM EDT
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Came here expecting that comment. Didn't think it would be in the OP.
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 7:50:03 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By soldier65:
Big + 1 on that. He bought the railroad to capitalize on the oil shipments, His Boy Obama vetoed the pipeline. Now, Buffet's gamble pays off. In Spades too. Laughing my ass off here.
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Originally Posted By soldier65:
Originally Posted By LesBaer45:
One of Buffet's trains at that.

I hope no one was hurt but but there is a hint of irony given that he is a big Obama supporter.
Big + 1 on that. He bought the railroad to capitalize on the oil shipments, His Boy Obama vetoed the pipeline. Now, Buffet's gamble pays off. In Spades too. Laughing my ass off here.

Yep. Somehow they will blame someone else.
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 7:52:41 PM EDT
Another one derailed in Ontario.
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 8:02:02 PM EDT
And if an oil pipe breaks?
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 8:15:24 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 4v50:
And if an oil pipe breaks?
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Shhhhh, I'm following the lib play book and using tragic news to further my agenda.
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 8:33:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By f402mech:
I was working about 10 miles from there on Thursday when it happened, and I was working on the railroad. FRA inspectors everywhere
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All the livelong day?

Link Posted: 3/7/2015 8:44:34 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By The_Reaper:


All the livelong day?

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Originally Posted By The_Reaper:
Originally Posted By f402mech:
I was working about 10 miles from there on Thursday when it happened, and I was working on the railroad. FRA inspectors everywhere


All the livelong day?


lol
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 8:52:58 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 4v50:
And if an oil pipe breaks?
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You go shut the upstream block valve. Depending on conditions you may leave the downstream valves open to relieve pressure and aid in draining product away from the break.
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 8:55:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2015 8:56:54 PM EDT by USPcompact]
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Originally Posted By f402mech:
I was working about 10 miles from there on Thursday when it happened, and I was working on the railroad. FRA inspectors everywhere
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All the live-long day?

ETA: DAMMIT!
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 9:27:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By kylerudibaugh:

You go shut the upstream block valve. Depending on conditions you may leave the downstream valves open to relieve pressure and aid in draining product away from the break.
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Originally Posted By kylerudibaugh:
Originally Posted By 4v50:
And if an oil pipe breaks?

You go shut the upstream block valve. Depending on conditions you may leave the downstream valves open to relieve pressure and aid in draining product away from the break.

Not to mention pipeline breaks generally do not catch fire.
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 10:32:27 PM EDT
It's a good thing pipelines don't leak or break cause then I'd be really worried
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 10:42:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By KB7DX:

Not to mention pipeline breaks generally do not catch fire.
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Because the more volatile compounds in the crude are required to be removed before going in the pipeline. They are not removed before being put in a rail car - but they obviously should be.

There still are pipeline fires and fatalities, however.
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 10:52:15 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 4v50:
And if an oil pipe breaks?
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Alaskan pipe line?
How many?
Been 50 years or so.
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 10:57:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2015 11:01:07 PM EDT by ElectricSheep556]
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Originally Posted By hdhogman:

Alaskan pipe line?
How many?
Been 50 years or so.
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Originally Posted By hdhogman:
Originally Posted By 4v50:
And if an oil pipe breaks?

Alaskan pipe line?
How many?
Been 50 years or so.

A shitload.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Alaska_Pipeline_System#Incidents
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 11:03:42 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 4v50:
And if an oil pipe breaks?
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Well it doesn't burst into flames shooting into the air 300 feet. That can be seen 20 miles away!
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 11:08:34 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By USPcompact:


All the live-long day?

ETA: DAMMIT!
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Originally Posted By USPcompact:
Originally Posted By f402mech:
I was working about 10 miles from there on Thursday when it happened, and I was working on the railroad. FRA inspectors everywhere


All the live-long day?

ETA: DAMMIT!




LOL
Link Posted: 3/8/2015 11:22:20 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By phb1gt:




LOL
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Originally Posted By phb1gt:
Originally Posted By USPcompact:
Originally Posted By f402mech:
I was working about 10 miles from there on Thursday when it happened, and I was working on the railroad. FRA inspectors everywhere


All the live-long day?

ETA: DAMMIT!




LOL


You'd be surprised how much I whistle that to myself when I'm at work. Apparently this particular area where the train derailed is a known trouble-spot. There was a big rain a few years back and it washed out all of the gravel underneath the rails. BN fixed it but it's never been the same since, the rail still bows a lot in that area. I don't know how that would affect a derailment since I'm not a track guy, but that's word on the street.
Link Posted: 3/8/2015 12:37:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2015 12:42:09 PM EDT by Tim_McBride]
If they build it without using eminent domain to take land, then ok; otherwise fuck off.
Link Posted: 3/8/2015 12:45:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:
If they build it without using eminent domain to take land and without pumping the Ogallala aquifer dry, then ok; otherwise fuck off.
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Wow, so much FUD with you. Fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Pipelines don't drain aquifers. Farmers do that but they also grow crops which are needed so they get a pass. No one needs oil .

Pipelines are buried, deep. They don't take away crop land. They are routed away from developed areas because of cost. And because of value, compensation is always above market value.

Yes, pipelines do eventually fail but modern pipeline operation, maintenance and testing assure such events are rare. Instead of moving cars at 70 MPH, crude plods along at a few feet per second. Tortoise and hare analogy fits.
Link Posted: 3/8/2015 12:46:41 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 4v50:
And if an oil pipe breaks?
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They generally don't "break"...but if they leak we usually dig it up and repair it.
Link Posted: 3/8/2015 12:52:03 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Wow, so much FUD with you. Fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Pipelines don't drain aquifers. Farmers do that but they also grow crops which are needed so they get a pass. No one needs oil .


Pipelines are buried, deep. They don't take away crop land. They are routed away from developed areas because of cost. And because of value, compensation is always above market value.


Yes, pipelines do eventually fail but modern pipeline operation, maintenance and testing assure such events are rare. Instead of moving cars at 70 MPH, crude plods along at a few feet per second. Tortoise and hare analogy fits.
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Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:
If they build it without using eminent domain to take land and without pumping the Ogallala aquifer dry, then ok; otherwise fuck off.
Wow, so much FUD with you. Fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Pipelines don't drain aquifers. Farmers do that but they also grow crops which are needed so they get a pass. No one needs oil .


Pipelines are buried, deep. They don't take away crop land. They are routed away from developed areas because of cost. And because of value, compensation is always above market value.


Yes, pipelines do eventually fail but modern pipeline operation, maintenance and testing assure such events are rare. Instead of moving cars at 70 MPH, crude plods along at a few feet per second. Tortoise and hare analogy fits.


Pipelines are generally buried 3 to 10 feet down. I wouldn't call that deep.
Link Posted: 3/8/2015 12:54:06 PM EDT
A pipeline is safer than rail or road transport period.

Generally the only pipelines that catastrophically fail are high pressure natural gas pipelines and that is a very rare event.
Link Posted: 3/8/2015 12:59:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2015 12:59:20 PM EDT by raven]
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Originally Posted By hobbsar:
A pipeline is safer than rail or road transport period.

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Maybe, but the less oil that gets to market, the better for our planet.
Link Posted: 3/8/2015 12:59:07 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ElectricSheep556:

Because the more volatile compounds in the crude are required to be removed before going in the pipeline. They are not removed before being put in a rail car - but they obviously should be.

There still are pipeline fires and fatalities, however.
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Originally Posted By ElectricSheep556:
Originally Posted By KB7DX:

Not to mention pipeline breaks generally do not catch fire.

Because the more volatile compounds in the crude are required to be removed before going in the pipeline. They are not removed before being put in a rail car - but they obviously should be.

There still are pipeline fires and fatalities, however.

That train came from here. We have a new law that all produced oil must be at a vapor pressure of under 13.5 PSI, and a lot of that crude is pipelined to where they are loading the trains so the vapor pressure is even lower to meet the the pipeline companies spec.


Link Posted: 3/8/2015 1:21:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Wow, so much FUD with you. Fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Pipelines don't drain aquifers. Farmers do that but they also grow crops which are needed so they get a pass. No one needs oil .


Pipelines are buried, deep. They don't take away crop land. They are routed away from developed areas because of cost. And because of value, compensation is always above market value.


Yes, pipelines do eventually fail but modern pipeline operation, maintenance and testing assure such events are rare. Instead of moving cars at 70 MPH, crude plods along at a few feet per second. Tortoise and hare analogy fits.
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Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:
If they build it without using eminent domain to take land and without pumping the Ogallala aquifer dry, then ok; otherwise fuck off.
Wow, so much FUD with you. Fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Pipelines don't drain aquifers. Farmers do that but they also grow crops which are needed so they get a pass. No one needs oil .


Pipelines are buried, deep. They don't take away crop land. They are routed away from developed areas because of cost. And because of value, compensation is always above market value.


Yes, pipelines do eventually fail but modern pipeline operation, maintenance and testing assure such events are rare. Instead of moving cars at 70 MPH, crude plods along at a few feet per second. Tortoise and hare analogy fits.


On the water issue, I edited my post because I mistakenly thought they were planning to use additional water to move the oil, pumped from this area. It is a pretty common thing getting passed around here. I was wrong.

On oil, yes everyone needs it, even in ranching we need it out here.
I think a lot of people don't understand the land issue though. If they don't want to sell the land they shouldn't be forced too. Route the pipeline around those who don't want to sell. Right now it is 10% or so of landowners who don't want to sell.
I also have not seen anyone address how they will repair the grassland here after they run the pipeline, although this becomes an individual issue for those who choose to sell. The land here is sand stabilized by the grass, once the grass is gone the blowouts become extremely difficult to repair.
Link Posted: 3/8/2015 1:23:36 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By raven:
Maybe, but the less oil that gets to market, the better for our planet.
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Originally Posted By raven:
Originally Posted By hobbsar:
A pipeline is safer than rail or road transport period.

Maybe, but the less oil that gets to market, the better for our planet.


Seriously?[%|
Link Posted: 3/8/2015 1:33:00 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 4v50:
And if an oil pipe breaks?
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You shut it off at the closest upstream pig trap or pumping station.

Pipelines don't generally break. They're buried in the ground anyway which would help contain the leak.

A major earthquake might break one...but the XL segment wasn't planned to cross any major earthquake zones.




Link Posted: 3/8/2015 1:51:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2015 1:53:15 PM EDT by pcsutton]
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Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:


On the water issue, I edited my post because I mistakenly thought they were planning to use additional water to move the oil, pumped from this area. It is a pretty common thing getting passed around here. I was wrong.

On oil, yes everyone needs it, even in ranching we need it out here.
I think a lot of people don't understand the land issue though. If they don't want to sell the land they shouldn't be forced too. Route the pipeline around those who don't want to sell. Right now it is 10% or so of landowners who don't want to sell.
I also have not seen anyone address how they will repair the grassland here after they run the pipeline, although this becomes an individual issue for those who choose to sell. The land here is sand stabilized by the grass, once the grass is gone the blowouts become extremely difficult to repair.
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Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:
If they build it without using eminent domain to take land and without pumping the Ogallala aquifer dry, then ok; otherwise fuck off.
Wow, so much FUD with you. Fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Pipelines don't drain aquifers. Farmers do that but they also grow crops which are needed so they get a pass. No one needs oil .


Pipelines are buried, deep. They don't take away crop land. They are routed away from developed areas because of cost. And because of value, compensation is always above market value.


Yes, pipelines do eventually fail but modern pipeline operation, maintenance and testing assure such events are rare. Instead of moving cars at 70 MPH, crude plods along at a few feet per second. Tortoise and hare analogy fits.


On the water issue, I edited my post because I mistakenly thought they were planning to use additional water to move the oil, pumped from this area. It is a pretty common thing getting passed around here. I was wrong.

On oil, yes everyone needs it, even in ranching we need it out here.
I think a lot of people don't understand the land issue though. If they don't want to sell the land they shouldn't be forced too. Route the pipeline around those who don't want to sell. Right now it is 10% or so of landowners who don't want to sell.
I also have not seen anyone address how they will repair the grassland here after they run the pipeline, although this becomes an individual issue for those who choose to sell. The land here is sand stabilized by the grass, once the grass is gone the blowouts become extremely difficult to repair.
Pipeline Right-of-Way is generally only about 60' wide through the install and 30' after that. The extra temporary 30' is so they can lay off the topsoil and dirt dug out of the trench. Once the line is in the ditch and the dirt put back, it shrinks to the 30' width.

Most ROWs are adjoining the property boundary and run don't across the middle of a property. They run along the fence lines.

The price paid is usually higher than what the land is valued at - so as to prevent having to deal with 'eminent domain' suits. That is always a last resort and it is generally less expensive to re-route around a problem landowner or just to pay them a much higher price than the value of the land to change their minds.

Eminent domain is what it is. We wouldn't have Interstate Hiways, most State Hiways, Electric power or a host of other things in this nation without it's use....and most of those projects can't be routed around a reluctant landowner like a pipeline can.




Link Posted: 3/8/2015 2:20:58 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Will220:
It's a good thing pipelines don't leak or break cause then I'd be really worried
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Run the risk assessment. flammable petro by rail and freight vs a pipeline. Not only is one MUCH safer then the other, but it's also far more efficient.
Link Posted: 3/8/2015 2:29:09 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By LesBaer45:
One of Buffet's trains at that.

I hope no one was hurt but but there is a hint of irony given that he is a big Obama supporter.
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Atlas did what?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/8/2015 2:41:24 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By raven:
Maybe, but the less oil that gets to market, the better for our planet.
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Originally Posted By raven:
Originally Posted By hobbsar:
A pipeline is safer than rail or road transport period.

Maybe, but the less oil that gets to market, the better for our planet.
Impossible. The oil WILL get extracted and sold. A pipeline moving it south won't stop it.
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