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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/4/2005 9:13:15 AM EDT
Fucking tempermental assholes. The other day it was this incident...
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=376200

Now this (and from the article it seems like the shooter had a CCW, not just a permit to purchase).

Mother and son shot after traffic dispute Malden man tied to chase, gunfire


LYNN -- After the second reported violent attack following a traffic argument in two days, a Malden driver was charged with assault with intent to murder after he allegedly chased down and shot a mother and her 17-year-old son in their car yesterday, Lynn police said.
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A Lynn law-enforcement official who had knowledge of the inquiry said the motorists in the two cars had been feuding for several blocks. They had stopped at lights and and verbally sparred for about a half-mile, the official said.

At a stop sign on Nahant Street, the teenager allegedly spat at the other car, after which the driver allegedly got out of his car, threatened, and ultimately shot the two victims, the official said.

Gregory Umphrey, 17, and his mother, 52-year-old Linda A. Umphrey of Lynn, were both in fair condition in Massachusetts General Hospital last night. Police would not detail their injuries.

Lynn police charged William F. Green, 55, of Malden with two counts of assault and battery with a dangerous weapon, a firearm; two counts of armed assault with intent to murder; and with firing a gun within 100 feet of a residence. He is scheduled to be arraigned today in Lynn District Court.

The episode sparked fears about uncontrollable anger on local roadways. After a heated traffic dispute Tuesday in Brockton, a 60-year-old man allegedly hunted down and fatally shot a 27-year-old driver, who had been holding his infant daughter in his arms.

''It's bad enough that you hear about one, but two in a matter of two days is extremely discouraging," said Amie O'Hearn, spokeswoman for the Registry of Motor Vehicles, which is among the agencies trying to curb aggressive driving and road rage. ''It leaves you speechless. This is certainly a wake-up call that people aren't getting the message."

The dispute yesterday reportedly started around 11 a.m., when both cars were traveling on the Lynnway. Linda Umphrey had just picked up her son from summer school, according to a woman at the Umphreys' house who declined to give her name.

The Umphreys then drove off the Lynnway and onto Nahant Street, a small secondary road. Green followed in his 2005 Subaru Forester, said Lieutenant David Brown of the Lynn Police Department.

The police official confirmed that investigators are looking into whether the shooting had been provoked by Gregory Umphrey spitting on the Forester, based on accounts from witnesses.

''The kid said he accidentally spit on the guy's car," said Mauricio Hermosilla, 31, who helped the Umphreys outside his house on Nahant Street yesterday. ''That's why the guy shot him, according to the kid."

A witness on Nahant Street said he saw the Forester pull up on the right side of the Umphreys' Nissan Altima.

'The guy pulled up next to him and said, 'You do that again, I'll [expletive] kill you,' " said the witness, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he feared retribution.

The witness said he did not believe the driver was serious, but shortly afterward, ''I heard the pop, pop."

Police said Green got out of his car and fired his gun into the Umphreys' car. Police said they were seeking a warrant to search his car for the weapon. They said Green was licensed to carry a gun.

Officer Christopher Hegarty of the Lynn police found both Umphreys suffering from gunshot wounds outside their car on Nahant Street.

Several witnesses said that Gregory Umphrey had been shot in the back and that his mother, Linda, had been shot in the neck or chest. ''She had a marble-sized hole in her neck or chest area," Hermosilla said. ''She was covered with blood, and she was yelling."

Both mother and son were panicked and appeared to be in shock, witnesses said.

''I heard the shots and came out on the balcony," said Nadia Saburov, 19, who lives in an apartment overlooking the street. ''The kid was shot in the back. He was hysterical, literally running around in circles."

Still, Gregory Umphrey provided police the license plate of the car that had followed them. Police contacted the Registry for information on the driver, and broadcast details to other departments.

Thirty-six minutes after the shooting was reported, Officer Brian Richard of the Peabody Police Department arrested Green on Route 1 south in Peabody.

The Umphreys were transported to Massachusetts General Hospital, where Gregory Umphrey, Linda Umphrey's husband and Gregory's father, was due to be released after having been hospitalized for several days after a motorcycle accident, said a woman at the Umphreys' house.

Neighbors of the Umphreys seemed shaken. Rich Bucko, who said he has known the family for 14 years, described Gregory Umphrey as a polite, good-natured teenager who often took care of his nephew and niece.

Lynn police said Green was licensed to own a firearm. He is a widower, whose wife, Pamela L. Green, died of a brain tumor in January 1999.

A neighbor who would not give his name said Green was a former Marine on disability. The neighbor voiced surprise at the charge

''I just don't see him doing something like that," he said.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 9:16:23 AM EDT
Hmmmm. Somethin's fishy.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 9:18:24 AM EDT
Welcome to the gray bar hotel.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 9:25:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Hmmmm. Somethin's fishy.



What would that be? I take everything I read or see in the news with a grain of salt, but do you honestly think it is beyond the possible that there are actually idiots out there that have carry permits?

There are idiots of all races, religions, ages, sexes, political parties, etc., etc., etc.


Unfortunatley for us all, they are the ones that end up with the most publicity.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 9:25:57 AM EDT
Good now maybe we can get those CCW holders off the streets!, And we can make something illegal even more illegal!
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 9:34:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Welcome to the gray bar hotel.



Yup. CCW holder or not, it's still illegal to shoot people who do not pose an immediate threat to you. There are bad apples in every bunch. But the left will still use them in their campaign to make us 'safer'.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 9:41:29 AM EDT
I love how the kid says he "accidentally" spit on the guy's car. No responsibility for his own actions there.

I can't imagine a Marine shooting a woman and her kid over a driving incident! There must be more to this than hit the paper.

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 9:48:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LoginName:
''I heard the shots and came out on the balcony," said Nadia Saburov, 19, who lives in an apartment overlooking the street. ''The kid was shot in the back. He was hysterical, literally running around in circles."



Pics of Nadia? Is she hot?? She sounds like she is.

I LOVE how people are quick to blame guns whenever they can. It's not like it's the behavior of those involved. The kid shouldn't have spit or whatever he did. The gun bearer shouldn't have drawn down. Was his life really in peril? No.

Blame his decision making process, not the tool he used to carry it out.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 9:51:14 AM EDT
One more and it's a new epidemic!
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 10:08:16 AM EDT
Look for legislators to be gearing up to prohibit MA residents from being licensed to carry handguns. That always solves the problem
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 12:27:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Demordrah:
Look for legislators to be gearing up to prohibit MA residents from being licensed to carry handguns. That always solves the problem



Yeppers...I'm bettin' within the week, if their legislature is still in session.

On another note, I'm surprised that this doesn't happen far more often than it does. People can get pretty wound up over trivial shit these days, and I don't exempt myself from that, either.

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 12:29:32 PM EDT
committing a crime with guns or drugs present (much less USING THE GUN IN THE COMMISION OF THE CRIME) is just asking for a BOHICA. Not smart.

There goes his right to carry (and vote, and probably walk the streets for a while too...)
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 12:31:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Hmmmm. Somethin's fishy.



Yeah, I agree. Also, how the hell can anyone get a CCW permit in MA ?!?!?!
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 1:17:27 PM EDT
Well his ego was wounded. What other choice did he have really?

Fucking tard. Thanks Bud... that's a big help to everyone.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 1:28:12 PM EDT
I live in massachusetts a good part of the year. In massachusetts you have to be 21 to get any type of handgun permit at all. I am 20 years and 9 months old. If this ruins ccw in Mass im gonna spaz.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 1:29:38 PM EDT
In some states certain people can get licensed to carry--Insurance adjusters, appraisers, private investigators, armed security personnel, etc., where the gun would be necessary for either protection or in carrying out their duties. Perhaps this is what they meant? The police didn't say he had a concealed carry license, but only a license to carry a weapon. Could it have been a license to carry it openly?
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 1:30:45 PM EDT
I wonder how many non CCW holders have shot someone during a road rage incident?
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 1:48:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 1:50:56 PM EDT by sharky30]
the real problem wasn't the gun it was the fact that it was near a car wash

"Pop! Pop! Pop! Pop! Four shots. It sounded like a cap gun," Louis McPhee, the manager of a car wash across the street, told The Boston Globe. "The guy was lying there in his own blood with a hole in his head and his arm still on the baby."

from a story posted on another forum, no link to the source though

EDIT: whoops, looks like my quote was from a story about the other incident
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 1:52:58 PM EDT
A nut case doesn't need a permit to carry in order to assault someone. Wonder how many gun crimes are statistically commited by those without permits?
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 1:53:39 PM EDT
I have my CCL and now am forced to swallow my anger at idiots. Before the CCL I might have sworn back or chased them for spitting throwing stuff at me. Now I just wave and let them go.

"An Armed Society is a Polite Society". Robert Heinlein

He will be removed from society.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 2:08:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 2:09:53 PM EDT by J_Smith]
I hope the best for Massachusetts gun owners - this news is NOT GOOD. The nature of the beast in Massachusetts is to ban everything - its already very difficult to get a Class A License to Carry in Mass. "Assault Weapons" have been illegal in the city of Boston for years and Massachusetts has its own version of the 1994 AW Ban which applies throughout the entire state.

I drive out of Mass. quite often on 95, 495, and 93 - and there ARE a lot of assholes with licenses there - in all fairness New Jersey and New York are right up there with insane suicidal drivers. Not ALL of them - a large portion. I've had people come close to killing me several times for being fucking idiots - I had a schoolbus loaded full of kids cut me off going 80mph just inches from my vehicle. But I'm not going to go into a road rage rant about assholes with drivers licenses.

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 2:16:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 2:25:51 PM EDT
Maybe this will reduce road rage. Weed out the idiots one at the time. Actually two at the time, one dead, one in jail in the first case. Have driven in mass a few times in the past and some areas are just crazy.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 2:26:45 PM EDT
Maybe it is the Nazi like outfit of the troopers in Mass that incite violence. Let's ban those.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 2:28:35 PM EDT
people should learn how to drive and behave better.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 2:32:34 PM EDT
A couple of folks have talked about the fact that MA has a permit to buy.own.

Wonder if that's what they're referring to.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 2:37:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 2:40:56 PM EDT by Carbine_Man]

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Hmmmm. Somethin's fishy.

Yeah, I agree. Also, how the hell can anyone get a CCW permit in MA ?!?!?!

Massachusetts does NOT have a "shall issue" concealed carry permit.

What they are referring to as a license is the fact that HANDGUN OWNERSHIP IS REGISTERED.

You can't own a handgun for personal protection in MA without it being specified on your pistol permit, and very, very few towns will allow it. 99% of pistol permits are "hunting and target ONLY." Even if you DO get personal protection on your permit, you aren't allowed to carry concealed.

Correct please if wrong. I lived in MA for 36 years and moved away 13 years ago because of this BS.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 2:53:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Carbine_Man:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Hmmmm. Somethin's fishy.

Yeah, I agree. Also, how the hell can anyone get a CCW permit in MA ?!?!?!

Massachusetts does NOT have a "shall issue" concealed carry permit.

What they are referring to as a license is the fact that HANDGUN OWNERSHIP IS REGISTERED.

You can't own a handgun for personal protection in MA without it being specified on your pistol permit, and very, very few towns will allow it. 99% of pistol permits are "hunting and target ONLY." Even if you DO get personal protection on your permit, you aren't allowed to carry concealed.

Correct please if wrong. I lived in MA for 36 years and moved away 13 years ago because of this BS.



The laws have changed somewhat, concealed carry is allowed in mass with a class A permit. This permit is not shall issue and its purpose will be specified be it "protection" or "target shooting." You can't carry the gun for a reason not specified on the permit (its best to get "all lawful purposes" put down consequently). As far as I know the model of gun is not specified on the permit (like in some other states). Getting the permit can be either fairly easy or impossible depending on the town's police chief. Some chiefs refuse to issue any and others will give you a "all lawful purposes" class A license with relatively little hassle.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 2:57:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 2:59:49 PM EDT by LoginName]

Originally Posted By Tango7:
A couple of folks have talked about the fact that MA has a permit to buy.own.

Wonder if that's what they're referring to.




MA has a seriously fucked up permit system (as if that's not hard to believe).

There's 3 different permits for possession, purchase, carrying and ownership of firearms (actually, there are two additional permits that pertain to minor situations, but those aren't worth going into right now).

First, there's a MA FID card (Firearms Identification card).

An FID card is shall issue.

With an FID card a person can purchase, posses and own any non-large capacity long arm.. meaning most rifles and shotguns, but no semi-auto rifle that can accept a "large capacity feeding device" (no "assault rifles").

Then there's a Class B LTC (License to Carry). The term is a misnomer... it does not permit the person to carry a concealed handgun. The Class B LTC is a may issue permit.

With a Class B LTC, a person can purchase, posses and own any longarm (including "assault rifles"), and handguns...except for any handgun capable of accepting a "large capacity feeding device". This pretty much limits handgun posession to revolvers and any automatic that can accept a mag of 10 rounds or less.

Lastly, there's a Class A LTC. Like the Class B LTC, the Class A is may issue.

With a Class A a person can posses, purchase and own rifles, shotguns, "assault rifles", revolvers and large capacity semi-autos.

In addition to being may issue the licensing authority (CLEO), can place restrictions on it; such as for sporting and target use only, or for employment purposes only. If the CLEO deems a person "worthy" of being "trusted" to carry a concealed firearm, the he can issue the Class A LTC stamped "For All Lawful Purposes". This is the only way a MA civilian can legally carry a concealed firearm.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 3:07:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Carbine_Man:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Hmmmm. Somethin's fishy.

Yeah, I agree. Also, how the hell can anyone get a CCW permit in MA ?!?!?!

Massachusetts does NOT have a "shall issue" concealed carry permit.

What they are referring to as a license is the fact that HANDGUN OWNERSHIP IS REGISTERED.

You can't own a handgun for personal protection in MA without it being specified on your pistol permit, and very, very few towns will allow it. 99% of pistol permits are "hunting and target ONLY." Even if you DO get personal protection on your permit, you aren't allowed to carry concealed.

Correct please if wrong. I lived in MA for 36 years and moved away 13 years ago because of this BS.



Here's a listing of the cities and towns and their respective ease (or difficulty), in obtaing an LTC "for all lawful purposes".

www.packing.org/state/massachusetts/#localities

I have no idea how accurate or up to date this info is, but I do have my Class A LTC for all lawful purposes that was issued in a community that is listed as "difficult".
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 4:21:10 PM EDT

A neighbor who would not give his name said Green was a former Marine on disability. The neighbor voiced surprise at the charge

''I just don't see him doing something like that," he sai


Wonder if he was taking prozac too. Anti-depressants, not guns are the killers....
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 4:25:51 PM EDT
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