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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/25/2005 2:59:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 3:47:53 AM EDT by LWilde]
Just like Uris describes in his book, "The Haj". It's happened here in the States too...but NEVER four at a time!!!
ROP'er Kills Daughters

What a savage fucker that beast is.

And you know what? That shit is CONDONED by virtually ALL of the ROP'ers!

I'm surprised that the local LEOs arrested him. Maybe they will mete out some justice after all. Those poor little girls. I look at our beautiful nine-year old and my heart breaks.


MULTAN, Pakistan — A father, angry that his eldest daughter had married against his wishes, slit her throat as she slept and then killed three of his other daughters in a remote village in eastern Pakistan, police said Saturday.

Nazir Ahmad, a laborer in his 40s, feared the younger girls, aged 4, 8, and 12, would follow in their sister's footsteps, police officer Shahzad Gul said.

Ahmad surrendered to police after the killings late Friday in Burewala, about 70 miles east of Multan, a main city in eastern Punjab province, Gul said.

"He [Ahmad] told us today that he has killed his daughters, and we arrested him," he said.

Gul said the man's 25-year-old daughter, Muqadas Bibi, had married the man of her choice against her father's wishes some weeks ago. Ahmad contacted Bibi this week, saying he was ready to forgive her, Gul said.

During a visit by Bibi to her parents' house, Ahmad slit her throat as she slept and then killed the other three girls, Gul said. He said police were investigating whether other relatives helped in the killings and were also looking for Bibi's husband.

Gul said police are looking for Bibi's husband to inform him of her death.

Hundreds of women are killed in Pakistan every year, many by male relatives, after they are accused of staining their families' honor by having affairs or marrying for love without family consent.

Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:05:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:07:16 PM EDT
The Division of Pre-Crime CoC Enforcement Branch prohibits me from posting!
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:08:08 PM EDT
+1 I want to keep my account
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:11:55 PM EDT
Fair is fair, slit his throat too
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:13:41 PM EDT
Why am I not suprised?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:15:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:31:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:39:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
There is no shortage of bad people on this planet.


A lot of them appear to be reading from the same book, eh?

What should we expect from the 7th Century?

Eric The(Western)Hun
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:45:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 3:54:14 PM EDT by Lockedon]
This goes well beyond religious conviction....this is pure insanity......either that or fox news is making shit up...
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:48:59 PM EDT
What kind of "honor" can one have for killing his daughters?
And they have nuclear weapons...


Link Posted: 12/25/2005 4:55:10 PM EDT
Kill them all





Fathers that slice thier daughters throats that is.


Link Posted: 12/25/2005 6:20:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Death by meat grinder. Starting with the toes. It's the only way to hand out fair punishment.


I could speak my mind but then I'd probably be on the banned list. Freedom of speech isn't allowed here, sometimes. Some bullshit about "political correctness" and "respect for the beliefs of others" even if they're totally fucked in the head and following the path of evil.

So I won't say what I really mean. Just imagine it for me, instead.

CJ



Death by meat grinder....I think it might make a greater impact to feed the culprit ALIVE to a pack of Hogs, and tape the show to be displayed to future miscreants.


Truly the father is Evil.

And Evilness is not confined to any particular religion, though some religions encourage it more than others.



Link Posted: 12/25/2005 6:30:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 6:31:04 PM EDT by captainpooby]
Savages.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 6:31:04 PM EDT
In 2002, a girls' school in Mecca caught fire and all the girls inside perished from the flames. Why? Because the religious police LOCKED the door from the outside, because they didn't want the girls escaping the school improperly dressed. They also didn't let the firefighters IN, because they might see improperly dressed girls. So they all had to die lest they offend Muslim sensibilities.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 6:40:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 6:41:59 PM EDT by cmjohnson]
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 6:40:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
In 2002, a girls' school in Mecca caught fire and all the girls inside perished from the flames. Why? Because the religious police LOCKED the door from the outside, because they didn't want the girls escaping the school improperly dressed. They also didn't let the firefighters IN, because they might see improperly dressed girls. So they all had to die lest they offend Muslim sensibilities.



ANIMALS!!!
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 7:25:06 PM EDT
Lockedon said,
"This goes well beyond religious conviction"

I think you are in denial.

You really believe that? Is there just not enough evidence for you to realize
that this is a muslim problem?

Or are you just trying to not ruffle feathers?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 7:33:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LWilde:

Originally Posted By raven:
In 2002, a girls' school in Mecca caught fire and all the girls inside perished from the flames. Why? Because the religious police LOCKED the door from the outside, because they didn't want the girls escaping the school improperly dressed. They also didn't let the firefighters IN, because they might see improperly dressed girls. So they all had to die lest they offend Muslim sensibilities.



ANIMALS!!!




Yup, our "good friends and allies".

news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/03/15/wsaud15.xml&sSeet=/news/2002/03/15/ixworld.html

15 girls die as zealots 'drive them into blaze'

(Filed: 15/03/2002)

SAUDI Arabia's religious police are reported to have forced schoolgirls back into a blazing building because they were not wearing Islamic headscarves and black robes.

Saudi newspapers said scuffles broke out between firemen and members of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice who tried to keep the girls inside a burning school in Mecca.

Fifteen girls were killed as they stampeded to escape from the blazing building in the Muslim holy city. Saudi media and families of the victims have been angry over the deaths of the girls in the fire that gutted the school.

The resulting public criticism of the religious police, or mutaween, is highly unusual.

The English-language Saudi Gazette, in a front-page report yesterday quoted witnesses as saying that members of the religious police stopped men who tried to help the girls escape from the building, saying: "It is sinful to approach them."

A civil defence officer told an Arabic-language newspaper, al-Eqtisadiah, that he saw three members of the religious police "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya".

He added: "We told them that the situation was very critical and did not allow for such behaviour. But they shouted at us and refused to move away from the gates."

The father of one of the dead girls alleged that the school watchman refused to open the gate to let the girls out.

"Lives could have been saved had they not been stopped by members of the Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice," the Saudi Gazette said.

The much-feared mutaween roam the streets of the conservative kingdom wielding sticks to enforce dress codes and sex segregation and to ensure that Islamic prayers are performed on time.

Those who refuse to obey the orders of the religious police are usually beaten and sometimes jailed.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 8:15:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 8:17:02 PM EDT by t-stox]

Originally Posted By Airwolf:

Originally Posted By LWilde:

Originally Posted By raven:
In 2002, a girls' school in Mecca caught fire and all the girls inside perished from the flames. Why? Because the religious police LOCKED the door from the outside, because they didn't want the girls escaping the school improperly dressed. They also didn't let the firefighters IN, because they might see improperly dressed girls. So they all had to die lest they offend Muslim sensibilities.



ANIMALS!!!




Yup, our "good friends and allies".

news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/03/15/wsaud15.xml&sSeet=/news/2002/03/15/ixworld.html

15 girls die as zealots 'drive them into blaze'

(Filed: 15/03/2002)

SAUDI Arabia's religious police are reported to have forced schoolgirls back into a blazing building because they were not wearing Islamic headscarves and black robes.

Saudi newspapers said scuffles broke out between firemen and members of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice who tried to keep the girls inside a burning school in Mecca.

Fifteen girls were killed as they stampeded to escape from the blazing building in the Muslim holy city. Saudi media and families of the victims have been angry over the deaths of the girls in the fire that gutted the school.

The resulting public criticism of the religious police, or mutaween, is highly unusual.

The English-language Saudi Gazette, in a front-page report yesterday quoted witnesses as saying that members of the religious police stopped men who tried to help the girls escape from the building, saying: "It is sinful to approach them."

A civil defence officer told an Arabic-language newspaper, al-Eqtisadiah, that he saw three members of the religious police "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya".

He added: "We told them that the situation was very critical and did not allow for such behaviour. But they shouted at us and refused to move away from the gates."

The father of one of the dead girls alleged that the school watchman refused to open the gate to let the girls out.

"Lives could have been saved had they not been stopped by members of the Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice," the Saudi Gazette said.

The much-feared mutaween roam the streets of the conservative kingdom wielding sticks to enforce dress codes and sex segregation and to ensure that Islamic prayers are performed on time.

Those who refuse to obey the orders of the religious police are usually beaten and sometimes jailed.



Yep, i love how we Scorn Iran for being religious whackos yet Saudi Arabia is our friend! Have a nice day Abdul! OR how they ran advertisements on radio saying that Saudi Arabia is on "our side" in the WOT! what a joke!

ETA: IBTMA
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 4:29:54 AM EDT
There is no story that could be 'too bizarre' or 'too wicked' when it comes to some groups.

I wouldn't doubt anything someone said about them.

Eric The(GiveMeThatOldTimeReligion)Hun
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 2:37:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
Fair is fair, slit his throat too




Infidel! How dare you question an act of allah & his followers!

Women are treated as bad as dogs or worse over there, yet liberal gasbags (redundant) blather on about how "nice" islam is.............
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 2:44:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
Fair is fair, slit his throat too




Infidel! How dare you question an act of allah & his followers!

Women are treated as bad as dogs or worse over there, yet liberal gasbags (redundant) blather on about how "nice" islam is.............



Yea...that simply amazes me. The Left who supposedly REALLY care for the "rights" of wimminz...those lovely broads in loose shoes...THEY are the ones who should be screaming BLOODY MURDER from the fargin rooftops over this...but do we hear a single word? Nope.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 2:45:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Death by meat grinder. Starting with the toes. It's the only way to hand out fair punishment.


I could speak my mind but then I'd probably be on the banned list. Freedom of speech isn't allowed here, sometimes. Some bullshit about "political correctness" and "respect for the beliefs of others" even if they're totally fucked in the head and following the path of evil.

So I won't say what I really mean. Just imagine it for me, instead.

CJ



I couldn't agree more.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 2:48:22 PM EDT
She was probably hot too, I think we need to go on a man-killing spree in the mideast and convert the hotties to Christianity.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 2:52:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 3:06:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LWilde:

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
Fair is fair, slit his throat too




Infidel! How dare you question an act of allah & his followers!

Women are treated as bad as dogs or worse over there, yet liberal gasbags (redundant) blather on about how "nice" islam is.............



Yea...that simply amazes me. The Left who supposedly REALLY care for the "rights" of wimminz...those lovely broads in loose shoes...THEY are the ones who should be screaming BLOODY MURDER from the fargin rooftops over this...but do we hear a single word? Nope.



Add this to the collection...

www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,25689-1952823,00.html

Tsunami was God's revenge for your wicked ways, women told

From Nick Meo in Aceh

Religious extremists are using last year’s storm to oppress the survivors

MARLUDDIN JALIL, a Sharia judge who has ordered the punishment of women for not wearing headscarves, was uncompromising: “The tsunami was because of the sins of the people of Aceh.”

Thundering into a microphone at a gathering of wives, he made clear where he felt the fault lay: “The Holy Koran says that if women are good, then a country is good.”

A year after the disaster which many see as a divine punishment, emboldened Islamic hardliners are doing their best to eradicate sin — and women are their prime targets.

With reconstruction slow, irrational fears of a second tsunami high, and nearly 500,000 still homeless along 500 miles of coastline, the stern message falls on fertile ground. A Sharia police force modelled on Saudi moral enforcers enthusiastically seeks out female wrong doers for public humiliation.

The Wilayatul Hisbah, which loosely translates as “Control Team”, has arrested women, lopped off their hair, and paraded them in tears through the streets while broadcasting their sins over a megaphone.

More than 100 gamblers and drinkers — men and women — have been caned in public and some clerics are calling for thieves’ hands to be amputated.

The Islamic law introduced without popular enthusiasm in 2002 has been implemented rigorously since the tsunami, especially in towns such as Lhokseumawe, where Fatimah Syam, of Indonesian Women for Legal Justice, knows of 20 women who have fallen foul of it.

She said: “They seek out women without headscarves or unmarried girls meeting boys in private and parade them through the streets in an open car. I’ve seen the police laughing and boasting, and the girls in tears. The Sharia police say the tsunami happened because women ignored religion. We never heard of this parading before the tsunami.”

The poor, powerless and female have borne the brunt of the moral enforcers’ righteousness. Mrs Syam claimed the wife of an official caught without a headscarf on a scooter was let off last month and a prostitute who was paraded through the town won the sympathy of passers-by because of the hypocrisy of her persecutors: the woman’s client was allowed quietly to disappear.

The religious police have not always had it their own way. In one incident on the island of Sabang, attempts to humiliate a bareheaded girl backfired when angry villagers turned on them. By the time the civil police arrived to rescue the enforcers they were surrounded by an angry mob flicking lighted cigarettes at them.

But such setbacks and public unease have not dampened the zeal of Dr Jalil, a small, neat man with a trimmed moustache whose particular concerns are headscarves, gambling, alcohol, and girls meeting boys. “Sin starts small and gets bigger,” he said. His next target is a displaced persons’ camp outside Lhokseumawe where he has heard of young men and women freely mixing.

“Another tsunami is possible,” he said. “The Holy Koran says that if humans don’t listen to Allah they will be punished.”

He was not sure whether there was more or less sin since the disaster although he believes that the Acehnese are more God-fearing now. In the tent camps and temporary wooden barracks where desperate survivors endure grim conditions, Dr Jalil’s views are often well received. There are 67,000 survivors still living in tents and a further 75,000 are in the slum barracks, which are taking on a semipermanent air. Only half of those who lost their jobs in the disaster are back at work and drug abuse among the young is growing.

Although Aceh province is now a giant building site, the sheer scale of destruction has slowed work. A third of government servants died and 1,000 miles of roads were wiped out, making the logistics of recovery extremely difficult.

The Government says it has built 12,000 of the 80,000 permanent homes it aims for and that housing will be its top priority next year. But some aid workers think there could still be families under canvas in three years’ time.

Surnyati Alian, five months pregnant, is a typical survivor, squeezed with her family of four into a 12ft square tent beside a stinking ditch among the ruins of Meulaboh on the west coast. Like many Acehnese women she is desperate for a new family. Her four-year-old daughter was torn from her grasp as the wave crashed down on them. The child’s body was never found. Now she faces the prospect of nursing a new baby in a tent that is black with mould.

In such conditions wild theories about the tsunami thrive. In a version of Pop Idol organised by the American and Indonesian Red Cross in Barak Lampaseh camp in Banda Aceh, the winner was 12-year-old Sheila Mentari, whose song told how God sent the wave as punishment for sin. She said her father, who died in the wave, would have approved.

A fellow villager Marzuki Lidan, 46, who lost his wife and children, was among the enthusiastic audience. He said: “The Sharia police are good Muslims doing an excellent job. We must listen to them and follow God’s rules. Otherwise the tsunami will happen again.”
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 3:11:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 3:12:00 PM EDT by Old_Painless]

“Another tsunami is possible,” he said. “The Holy Koran says that if humans don’t listen to Allah they will be punished.”


In a way, he's right.

There is a disaster coming for Islam. It is bringing it upon itself.

Link Posted: 12/26/2005 3:37:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

“Another tsunami is possible,” he said. “The Holy Koran says that if humans don’t listen to Allah they will be punished.”


In a way, he's right.

There is a disaster coming for Islam. It is bringing it upon itself.




Sadly, I fear that your prediction is right on the money. History has proven it to be so. Cultural and religious forces are all too often simply too strong to overcome. The Japanese, even when faced with total with certain defeat were unwilling to surrender unconditionally until they were faced with certain and imminent annihilation.

Muslims, much like the suicidal samurai Shinto warriors are perfectly willing to die en mass if it means they can kill some "infidels"...meaning the rest of us. This is I fear the driving force behind the current regime in Tehran. They would bring on the Apocolypse, if they thought it would cause the general uprising among the billions of Muslims worldwide and lead to the second coming of the Caliphate.

They, like other tyrants before them, also sadly underestimate the United States. Just because we bitch and carp at each other, just because we fight like little kids over a toy, just because we are seemingly split on a lot of major issues, DOES NOT MEAN we will not fight. It does NOT mean will will not retaliate with all of our might if they attack us with a nuke for example.

This is the answer they will get...

Link Posted: 12/27/2005 3:53:49 AM EDT
These murderers just can't leave little girls alone can they?

Why the fuck don't they "dance with a MAN" once in a while!

Chickenshit punks aren't brave enough to take on an equal...noooo...they have to kill girls!

ROPers Behead Christian Girls!


Violence Creates Island of Terror in Indonesia

Monday, December 26, 2005

POSO, Indonesia — Masked, black-clad and brandishing machetes, the attackers sprang from behind a screen of tall grass and pounced on the four Christian girls as they walked to school. Within seconds, three of the teenagers were beheaded — fresh victims of violence that has turned this Indonesian island into yet another front in the terrorist wars.

"All I could do was pray to Jesus for his help," said 16-year-old Noviana Malewa, who fled with a gaping head wound. "I was streaming with blood." A thick scar runs from the back of her neck to just under her right eye.

Muslim militants are blamed for the October killings, the most gruesome yet in a campaign of terror against Christians on the island of Sulawesi.

Muslim-Christian violence from 2000 to 2002 killed some 1,000 people in Sulawesi and attracted Muslim militants from across Indonesia, including from Jemaah Islamiyah, a homegrown network linked to Al Qaeda, and even from the distant Middle East.

Despite a peace deal, bombings, shootings and other attacks on Christians have continued, especially around the small town of Poso in the heart of the octopus-shaped, Massachusetts-sized island.

Behind the attacks are Muslim islanders avenging their dead in that conflict, and terrorists bent on fomenting a new war, former fighters and security officials say.

"They want to see Poso become alive with the spirit of jihad again," said Fahirin Ibnu Achmad, an Afghan-trained militant who took part in the 2000-2002 war.

"It is easy to recruit people who have seen their relatives slaughtered," said Achmad, who claims to have renounced violence after spells in prison for gunrunning and taking part in an attack on a Christian village.

Sulawesi is one of several islands in what some call Southeast Asia's "triangle of terror" — a porous region encompassing the insurgency-wracked southern Philippines in the north and the Maluku archipelago, itself the scene of sectarian conflict, to the west.

Also close by is heavily Muslim southern Thailand, where a two-year insurgency has left more than 1,100 dead.

The United States is closely watching Indonesia, where Jemaah Islamiyah militants are accused of carrying out a string of suicide bombings on Western targets since 2002, including attacks on the island of Bali that killed more than 220 people, most of them foreign tourists.

Along with the Philippines, the "Sulawesi scene ... is perhaps the major issue right now in Southeast Asia, because there the enemy have the opportunity to gather and train and build cohesive groups and from there deploy outward," said Henry Crumpton, the U.S. State Department's counterterrorism coordinator.

Despite an Indonesian crackdown, militants are still able to move within the region and there is evidence that extremists are honing their bomb making skills at terror training camps, said Maj. Gen. Ansyaad Mbai, Indonesia's anti-terror chief.

The Sulawesi war has never been credibly investigated, and only a few perpetrators have stood trial. The island's Muslim and Christian communities, each numbering about half the population of 12.5 million, nurture their own histories of the conflict, casting themselves as victims. Burned out buildings and abandoned shops, many housing refugees, still dot the region, and aid money for reconstruction is stolen by corrupt officials and soldiers, human rights activists say.

Christian-Muslim relations were generally harmonious until 2000, when fighting spread from the Malukus and quickly took hold. Each side killed hundreds and burned down scores of villages, among them the hilltop hamlet where Noviana and her schoolmates grew up.

Noviana's family, which fled the hamlet overlooking Poso, had recently returned, confident that tensions were subsiding.

Still recovering from the attack, the girl now lives under police guard in the Christian town of Tentena.

In her only interview since the killings, Noviana described how the girls in their school uniforms were taking a shortcut to school through jungle and plantations when they ran into at least five masked, black-clad men.

As she fled bleeding, the assailants collected her friends' heads, put them into black plastic bags and then dumped in Christian parts of Poso, one on a porch, the other two on the street.

"They were killed as if they were chickens," said Hernius Morangki, showing a reporter the spot where his daughter was decapitated. "I keep asking myself, what were my daughter's sins?"

Christians, who represent just 5 percent of the country's overall population of 220 million, have refrained from loudly demanding justice.

"I tell people: Do not retaliate; only God can do that," said Rev. Stephen Dayoh, taking a break from pitching a large tent outside his church for Christmas services. "If we do, it means we are the same as them."

Link Posted: 12/27/2005 4:06:20 AM EDT
Yup - the ROP strikes again - and coming soon to a neighborhood near you...



- georgestrings
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 5:24:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By Paul:
There is no shortage of bad people on this planet.


A lot of them appear to be reading from the same book, eh?

What should we expect from the 7th Century?

Eric The(Western)Hun



It has little to do with the Book they read and more to do with the culture they live in. You are spot on in saying they are stuck in the 7th century. Thankfully, we don't live like that anymore, but honor killings used to be common in Christian nations as well. If we succeed in converting more backwards, uneducated people from the middle east, expect to see an increase in Christian honor killings.

Christian family guilty of honor killing

Murdered in name of family honour

Chris McGreal in Ramallah reports on a rise in killings of Palestinian women

Thursday June 23, 2005
The Guardian

Faten Habash's father wept as he assured his daughter there would be no more beatings, no more threats to her life and that she was free to marry the man she loved, even if he was a Muslim. All he asked was that Faten return home.

Hassan Habash even gave his word to an emissary from a Bedouin tribe traditionally brought in to mediate in matters of family honour, a commitment regarded as sacrosanct in Palestinian society. But the next weekend, as Faten watched a Boy Scouts parade from the balcony of her Ramallah home, the 22-year-old Christian Palestinian was dragged into the living room and bludgeoned to death with an iron bar. Her father was arrested for the murder.

"He gave me his word she would not be harmed," said Ibrahim Abu Dahouq, the Bedouin mediator. "He was crying and begging her to come home. They were even telling me that for their daughter to leave their house as a bride would be an honour for them. We never believed that love would lead to death in this ugly way."

Two days later, another ritual of killing unfolded a few miles away in Jerusalem.

Maher Shakirat summoned three of his sisters to discuss a family uproar after one of them, Rudaina, was thrown out by her husband for an alleged affair. Maher listened to Rudaina's denials, and her sisters' pleas that they were not covering up the affair. Then he forced the three women to drink bleach before strangling Rudaina, who was eight months pregnant. The other sisters tried to flee but Maher caught and strangled Amani, 20. The third, Leila, escaped but was badly injured by the bleach.

Maher, a bus driver in his 30s, is in hiding but his parents were arrested for allegedly ordering the murders and his wife was detained as an accomplice. As he was taken into custody, Rudaina's father, Amin, was asked why his daughters were killed. "Because they dishonoured the family," he said. "A married woman who goes with another man isn't good."

The murders of Faten Habash and the Shakirat sisters last month were the latest in a series of brutal "honour killings" that have shaken the Palestinian community over recent weeks. The deaths have prompted demands for a change to laws inherited from the days of Jordanian rule that deem all women to be "minors" under the authority of male relatives and that provide a maximum of six months in prison for killings in defence of "family honour."

But those calls have met with resistance in parliament where religious Palestinian MPs argue that reform will lead to a collapse in the moral fabric of society. According to the Palestinian women's affairs ministry, 20 girls and women were murdered in honour killings last year and about 50 committed suicide - often under coercion - for "shaming" the family through sex outside marriage, refusing an arranged marriage or seeking a divorce. Another 15 women survived attempts to kill them.

The ministry says that dozens of other killings are covered up each year. "We had one woman of 26 who was certified as dying of old age," said Maha Abu Dayyeh Shamas, director of the Women's Centre for Legal Aid and Counselling. "Putting 'falling into well' on the death certificate is very common. We find that the women were strangled and then dumped in the well."

Faten Habash's murder was unusual because she came from the Christian minority in the Palestinian territories. Her desire to marry a young Muslim, Samer Hamis, so infuriated her family that the couple decided to elope to Jordan.

Faten's father enlisted the family priest to stop his daughter on the grounds that, even though she was 22, all women are legally regarded as minors under the authority of their male relatives. The Palestinian authorities returned Faten to her home where she was beaten and her pelvis broken as she was either thrown from a window or jumped trying to escape. She spent six weeks in hospital. She sought protection under an ancient Bedouin formula for resolving disputes, known as Tanebeh. Abu Dahouq, a lawyer for the Dawakuk tribe, negotiated with the Habash family.

Mr Dahouq said: "Faten believed she had received a guarantee of security." Two days later she was murdered. "This family had no honour, no manners, no ethics," he said. "And the girl was as honourable as could be. All she wanted to do was marry this man she loved. I think the people in her church also have responsibility for this killing. They told this family that their daughter brought shame, so that makes them part of the crime."

The family priest, Father Ibrahim Hijazin, declined to talk about Faten's killing other than to say he called the Palestinian authorities to prevent her from reaching Jordan. But he says other families would have reacted as hers did. "There is no interfaith marriage among Arabs. Catholics here are Christian by faith and Muslim by culture, and in this community it is forbidden for Christians to marry Muslims. It's not good. It's a tribal mentality. I don't accept it, but it is the culture," he said.

After Faten's murder, several hundred Palestinian women held a vigil in Ramallah to demand an end to honour killings.

The Palestinian women's affairs minister, Zuhaira Kamal, called for a change to the law to allow women over 18 to marry without the consent of a male relative and reform of the old Jordanian legislation that frees the killers after a few months. But MPs have resisted the move.

"They're very traditional there," said Mrs Abu Dayyeh Shamas. "They say these are our traditions, that a man who is in a moment of anger is driven to do these things. It gives a message to the community that you can kill without punishment. We have a lot of complaints from women that their husbands are having affairs. We ask these MPs if they think these women should be allowed to kill their husbands. They can't answer that question."

Although honour killings have a long history in Palestinian society, women's rights groups say the rise in these murders cannot be separated from the resurgent violence of the past four years of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. "Things are breaking down because of the changing relationship between men and women. Increased numbers of women are the main source of income while her husband sits around. That is the kiss of death for that family," said Mrs Abu Dayyeh Shamas.

"Men feel they have lost their dignity and that they can somehow restore it by upholding the family's honour. We've noticed recent cases are much more violent in nature; attempts to kill, rape, incest. There is an incredible amount of incest."

Amira Abu Hanhan Qaoud murdered her daughter, Rafayda, because she became pregnant after being raped by two of her brothers.

"My daughter fell over and broke her knee. I took her to hospital and there the doctor told me she was pregnant. So I killed her. It's as simple as that," said Mrs Qaoud on her doorstep in Ramallah. Mrs Qaoud waited until the baby was born and given up for adoption. Then she presented her 22 year-old daughter with a razor blade and told her to slash her wrists.

She refused so her mother pulled a plastic bag over her head, sliced her wrists and beat her head with a stick. The brothers were sentenced to 10 years for the rape. Mrs Qaoud spent two years in prison for killing her daughter. She has purged her home of all pictures of her older children, and declines to discuss the killing, saying all she wants is to forget about it.

The repercussions of Faten Habash's murder are still being felt; the man she loved is in protective custody after threats from the Habash family.

The Bedouin mediator says the Habashes have dishonoured his tribe by breaching the pledge that Faten would not be harmed. "The crime is not against the girl, the crime is against our family," said Mr Abu Dahouq. "Since they have broken their word, we have the right to retaliate. There will be a reaction for betraying their religion and betraying us."
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 10:35:49 AM EDT
Excerpt from Dino's article...

Faten Habash's murder was unusual because she came from the Christian minority in the Palestinian territories.

How'd you miss that?

'Unusual among Christians', I think would be an acceptable manner of saying it.

Eric The(Western)Hun
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 10:46:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
In 2002, a girls' school in Mecca caught fire and all the girls inside perished from the flames. Why? Because the religious police LOCKED the door from the outside, because they didn't want the girls escaping the school improperly dressed. They also didn't let the firefighters IN, because they might see improperly dressed girls. So they all had to die lest they offend Muslim sensibilities.



And "improperly dressed" meant sans head covering.

That's a real good reason to commit someone to the flames.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 10:50:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 10:51:40 AM EDT by thedave1164]
Well someone much more famous than I has called it the religion of peace and is quoted here:

www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/11/20031120-3.html


Q Thank you, Mr. President, Mr. Prime Minister. Mr. President, when you talk about peace in the Middle East, you've often said that freedom is granted by the Almighty. Some people who share your beliefs don't believe that Muslims worship the same Almighty. I wonder about your views on that.

And, Mr. Prime Minister, as a man also of faith, I'd like to get your reaction to that.

PRESIDENT BUSH: I do say that freedom is the Almighty's gift to every person. I also condition it by saying freedom is not America's gift to the world. It's much greater than that, of course. And I believe we worship the same God.

Link Posted: 12/27/2005 10:52:58 AM EDT
It's simply an example of another culture..................I mean, Pakistan is a friend of America.......right?
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 11:02:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 11:08:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 11:22:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By thedave1164:
Well someone much more famous than I has called it the religion of peace and is quoted here:

www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/11/20031120-3.html


Q Thank you, Mr. President, Mr. Prime Minister. Mr. President, when you talk about peace in the Middle East, you've often said that freedom is granted by the Almighty. Some people who share your beliefs don't believe that Muslims worship the same Almighty. I wonder about your views on that.

And, Mr. Prime Minister, as a man also of faith, I'd like to get your reaction to that.

PRESIDENT BUSH: I do say that freedom is the Almighty's gift to every person. I also condition it by saying freedom is not America's gift to the world. It's much greater than that, of course. And I believe we worship the same God.



Just one of many topics of which he displays a staggering ignorance.

It has nothing to do with God. They are so dumb that they believe what the "priests" tell them. There are crazy extremists in the christian religion too, luckily westerners have a much better education than those in the middle east and don't fall for that kind of bullshit on such a large scale.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 11:52:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 11:55:28 AM EDT by Dino]

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Excerpt from Dino's article...

Faten Habash's murder was unusual because she came from the Christian minority in the Palestinian territories.

How'd you miss that?

'Unusual among Christians', I think would be an acceptable manner of saying it.

Eric The(Western)Hun



*sigh* Eric, I know you aren't that stupid so stop it. You know what was meant by that phrase. Unusual because Christians are a minority. Any other reading is putting a spin on it and you know it.

Its a cultural issue, not a religious issue.

When the culture allowed slavery, some Christians owned slaves. When the culture allowed mistreatment of women, some Christians mistreated women. The culture in that area of the world condones honor killings, so some Christiand and some Muslims kill their daughters for offending the family honor. The same was done in Europe for hundreds of years until we matured as a culture.


It says nothing about Christianity and more about the baser nature of people. I believe they teach that in Christianity as well...

Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:44:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2005 3:47:03 AM EDT by EricTheHun]

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Excerpt from Dino's article...

Faten Habash's murder was unusual because she came from the Christian minority in the Palestinian territories.

How'd you miss that?

'Unusual among Christians', I think would be an acceptable manner of saying it.

Eric The(Western)Hun


*sigh* Eric, I know you aren't that stupid so stop it.


Stop the patronizing.

You know what was meant by that phrase.

I certainly do.

Unusual because Christians are a minority.

Unusual because it is a Christian doing what is ordinarily an Islamic practice.

Period.

Any other reading is putting a spin on it and you know it.

No, I believe that you are putting a spin on this simple statement.

It's 'unusual' because one expects it from the Moslem majority.

Find us some more of these incidents, IF you think it so commonplace among Christians in the Middle East.

Its a cultural issue, not a religious issue.

Of all places on the face of the planet, in the Middle East, culture is defined by religion!

Any 'cultural' issue is a 'religious' issue!

When the culture allowed slavery, some Christians owned slaves. When the culture allowed mistreatment of women, some Christians mistreated women. The culture in that area of the world condones honor killings, so some Christiand and some Muslims kill their daughters for offending the family honor.

Balderdash.

The same was done in Europe for hundreds of years until we matured as a culture.

That's a pretty 'wide open' statement.

Care to give us some dates and details for such practices flourishing in Christian Europe?

(You know 'we' will check your work! )

It says nothing about Christianity and more about the baser nature of people. I believe they teach that in Christianity as well...

P-f-f-f-f-t!

That's what I say about your beliefs!

Eric The(Nastier'nHades)Hun
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:12:29 PM EDT
As long as they are killing their own kids, we don't have to do much.
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