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Posted: 9/26/2004 6:54:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 6:56:59 PM EST by The_Macallan]

Hurricane Season Has Some Reconsidering Living In Florida

The latest hurricane to slam into Florida has some residents reconsidering whether or not they want to continue living in the state, according to a Local 6 News report.

A Local 6 News exclusive survey found 31 percent of people asked said this year's storm season has caused them to think about leaving.

However, 69 percent of those surveyed said no, that they have not thought about moving away from Florida.

The storm sliced across the state Sunday with howling wind and rain, turning streets into rivers, peeling off roofs and rocketing debris from earlier storms through the air.

The storm made landfall just weeks after Frances ravaged the same stretch of coast, and hurled debris only recently cleared from earlier hurricanes.

Together, Hurricanes Ivan, Charley and Frances have already caused billions of dollars of damage and at least 70 deaths in the state.

"The last three weeks have been horrific," said mobile home park owner Joe Stawara in Vero Beach. "And just when we start to turn the corner, this happens."

The hurricanes have prompted the largest relief effort in the Federal Emergency Management Agency's history, eclipsing responses for the 1994 earthquake in Northridge, Calif., and the 2001 terrorist attacks, director Michael Brown said.

Jeanne is the state's fourth hurricane of the season -- an ordeal no state has faced since Texas in 1886.


Living in a hurricane belt is a KNOWN risk.

EVERYONE knows hurricanes are gonna come.
EVERYONE knows WHEN they're gonna come.
EVERYONE knows Florida is in hurricane alley.
EVERYONE knows what hurricanes do to houses.

So why are so many Floridians so frickin' dumbfounded when they get hammered EVERY FUCKING YEAR???



Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:59:55 PM EST
Because the other 350ish days of the year they have wonderful weather.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:03:19 PM EST
They better get used to it. IIRC, it Drudge had a story from NOAA stating that expect this every year for now on. They believe we are beginning to a enter a intense hurricane cycle, we just happened to be in a lull for the past 80 or so years.

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:03:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
Because the other 350ish days of the year they have wonderful weather.


Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:05:04 PM EST
Your just jealous.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:07:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:10:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
Because the other 350ish days of the year they have wonderful weather.



If you consider 90% humidity wonderful..

here, it's a dry heat.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:16:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 1:19:22 PM EST by mpearcex]
they had some asshat on TV the other day, some Professor from some university whos a so call expert on something but anyways he was actually blameing the Government for letting people build so close to the ocean knowing they could lose their house in a storm. Man, I just wanted to punch his fat ass through the TV. It's like everyone is mindless and we need intruction on how to live from our government.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:22:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:25:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:28:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
I remember going to FL as a kid, and seeing lots of the "Seach Shack" type houses that were kind of flimsily built, like the people who owned them realized that they would be getting destroyed by a hurricane within a few years so they didn't put much money into building them. Now when I go to FL I see multi million dollar mansions built right on the water, as if the owners beleived that they had somehow figured out how to beat a Hurricane, maybe it is time for some of the folks who have moved to FL within the last thirty years to reevaluate thier investments in FL real estate. I also find it interesting that so few of them had insurance policies that cover hurricane damage, when it became a large issue after Hugo and Andrew that regular home owners insurance didn't cover hurricanes.



IIRC, many get insurance from Uncle Sam who live right on the beach. We the taxpayer get to pay for their new homes when the old one gets destroyed by the Sea.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 7:20:00 AM EST
If I lived in Florida I'd try to be 10-20 miles inland.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 7:22:18 AM EST
My in-laws live in Clearwater. They can have it.

Too hot. Too humid. Too flat. Too many people.

Yuck.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 7:35:11 AM EST


Ya gots ta luv it!
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 7:36:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
If I lived in Florida I'd try to be 10-20 miles inland.

GunLvr



You might avoid storm surge, but believe me, 20 miles inland is no refuge from winds. Heck, Ivan was still a Cat I midway through Alabama!

As for the original post - the last sentence in the article answers your questions - this was an anomoly. I do think that the government should discourage builidng in certain areas, and maybe increase code specs in others - or at least have people sign waivers saying they will not petition for government money of their property is destroyed.

Still, New Mexico has the best weather in the whole damn country, I hate humidity.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 7:42:22 AM EST
Cus the gubnimint will bail them out.

Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:24:16 AM EST

Living in a hurricane belt is a KNOWN risk.

EVERYONE knows hurricanes are gonna come.
EVERYONE knows WHEN they're gonna come.
EVERYONE knows Florida is in hurricane alley.
EVERYONE knows what hurricanes do to houses.

So why are so many Floridians so frickin' dumbfounded when they get hammered EVERY FUCKING YEAR???





Why do so many people move into trailer parks in the Midwest?
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 12:58:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
snip

So why are so many Floridians so frickin' dumbfounded when they get hammered EVERY FUCKING YEAR???



Alzheimer's
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:07:44 PM EST
Can't live in the north-Blizzards
Can't live in the midwest-blizzards, tornados
Can't life in the west- fires
were can you live??
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:10:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By osprey21:
www.sfwmd.gov/org/wrp/wrp_ce/2_wrp_ce_info/photos/hires/stiltsville.jpg

Ya gots ta luv it!



Is that Murphy's House?
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:13:29 PM EST
Ivan caused major flooding in Pa. Should they move too?
Normally I think what you have to say is pretty smart Mac.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:13:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By osprey21:
www.sfwmd.gov/org/wrp/wrp_ce/2_wrp_ce_info/photos/hires/stiltsville.jpg

Ya gots ta luv it!



That would suck!
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:16:54 PM EST
Jeanne is the state's fourth hurricane of the season -- an ordeal no state has faced since Texas in 1886.

So all those people who moved to Texas could be considered optimistic too.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:18:51 PM EST
Couple of points.

1) I have lived in Florida for 29 years. 19 in Tallahassee, 8 in Gainesville, and the last 3 in Ft. Lauderdale. This year has been completely out of whack. To say "why are you surprised" just shows your ignorance. The worst hurricane I have ever experienced firsthand was Kat back in the '80s in Tallahassee, and we had no damage other than the power being out for a couple of days. Quit assuming that Florida is the size of a nickle and that the events of this year so far are somehow normal. When Andrew hit Miami I didn't even get a rain shower.

2) The government should only ban building in high-risk areas if they are going to keep cutting checks to these people. IMHO as a Florida native, they should get un-involved in the whole process. With the exception of structures that are constructed so poorly that they become wind-born debris and crash into other houses/cars etc. Nothing like waking up the morning after a storm to find your neighbor's shed on the roof of your car.

3) I hope they do leave. Undoubtedly most that are saying this are carpet-baggers any damn way. We didn't want them here to begin with. I vote that if the hurricanes get them to leave, I'll take weather like this every year for the next 20 years. Hopefully they'll leave behind a nice lot for me to build on. I guarantee I can construct a house that will stay standing and stay dry in at least a Cat 4. It won't be the best $/SF but I won't have to rebuild it and it'll be a good place from which to shoot looters & charge my neighbors protection money.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:23:41 PM EST
Heck, the Florida folks shouldn't be thinking about moving. They have been pre-disastered now.

I would bet they never see 4 in one year again in their lifetime.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:31:59 PM EST


Living in a hurricane belt is a KNOWN risk.

EVERYONE knows hurricanes are gonna come.
EVERYONE knows WHEN they're gonna come.
EVERYONE knows Florida is in hurricane alley.
EVERYONE knows what hurricanes do to houses.

So why are so many Floridians so frickin' dumbfounded when they get hammered EVERY FUCKING YEAR???





LOL

Awhile back we were discussing Kali Idiots dealing with quakes/slides/fires/etc and hurricanes were brought up. A member from one of the Virginias (IIRC) commented that "oh that's different, hurricanes are an act of God and you can't plan for that...".

You gots to love it!
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:36:26 PM EST
... No problem. You wanna live there; fine.

... But WHEN those hurricanes hit and shred your mobile home or rips your roof off; don't submit insurance claims that drives up MY rates - paying for your poor decision making!
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:36:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Living in a hurricane belt is a KNOWN risk.

EVERYONE knows hurricanes are gonna come.
EVERYONE knows WHEN they're gonna come.
EVERYONE knows Florida is in hurricane alley.
EVERYONE knows what hurricanes do to houses.

So why are so many Floridians so frickin' dumbfounded when they get hammered EVERY FUCKING YEAR???




That's just it, dude...since they started keeping records over 130 years ago, Florida has NEVER been hammered like this by four hurricanes in one season...EVER...

BTW, my wife and I just moved here from Virginia in June, so this is our first hurricane season in Florida...we sure picked a good one, eh??? Do we wanna leave??? HELL FUCKING NO!!!

By December, the hurricanes will be a distant memory, and we will have fun calling our friends up north and asking them how many inches of snow that blizzard is dumping on them while we're sitting on our lanai drinking margaritas in the sunny, 74 degree weather...

Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:41:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
Couple of points.

1) I have lived in Florida for 29 years. 19 in Tallahassee, 8 in Gainesville, and the last 3 in Ft. Lauderdale. This year has been completely out of whack. To say "why are you surprised" just shows your ignorance. The worst hurricane I have ever experienced firsthand was Kat back in the '80s in Tallahassee, and we had no damage other than the power being out for a couple of days. Quit assuming that Florida is the size of a nickle and that the events of this year so far are somehow normal. When Andrew hit Miami I didn't even get a rain shower.

2) The government should only ban building in high-risk areas if they are going to keep cutting checks to these people. IMHO as a Florida native, they should get un-involved in the whole process. With the exception of structures that are constructed so poorly that they become wind-born debris and crash into other houses/cars etc. Nothing like waking up the morning after a storm to find your neighbor's shed on the roof of your car.

3) I hope they do leave. Undoubtedly most that are saying this are carpet-baggers any damn way. We didn't want them here to begin with. I vote that if the hurricanes get them to leave, I'll take weather like this every year for the next 20 years. Hopefully they'll leave behind a nice lot for me to build on. I guarantee I can construct a house that will stay standing and stay dry in at least a Cat 4. It won't be the best $/SF but I won't have to rebuild it and it'll be a good place from which to shoot looters & charge my neighbors protection money.





Spot on post!
Change Fla to Calif and add 10yr's and your post would represent me 100%!
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:43:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... No problem. You wanna live there; fine.

... But WHEN those hurricanes hit and shred your mobile home or rips your roof off; don't submit insurance claims that drives up MY rates - paying for your poor decision making!



I don't think that hurricanes in FL affect your rates in AZ any more than earthquakes in CA affect my rates in FL.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:45:10 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:47:51 PM EST
People will always want to live in FL for the weather, though I think it's foolish to be right on the water. However, no, it is not as bad as a fault-line. One can build a home which will withstand a hurricane, but I know of none which will withstand an earthquake (speaking only of single family structure, close to a fault line as specified in the initial post).

One of the posters hit it right, though not as far as he suggested when he said be "20-30 miles inland." Right idea, though it does not have to be quite that far if one picks the right location. I live about a mile and a half in from the Gulf, but it is up a hill (such as they are in FL), giving me an elevation of about 50 ft, which is sufficient to protect from a storm surge. So, yes, go a bit inland and pick something with some elevation.

Someone suggested the taxpayers are paying the bill, or others in the nation paying through their insurance. Not so. The only Federal program is flood insurance. That has limited coverage and doesn't provide complete coverage for a house that falls into the sea. It applies also to people living on rivers in the midwest. As far as regular insurance is concerned, the major insurance companies have Florida subsidiaries which cover only Florida, and the liability limited to the Florida subsidiaries and any re-insurance they buy, as well as the Florida catastrophe fund. So, no, people in Iowa will not be paying for Florida in their State Farm bill: it's Florida only.

A lot of things work much better if people use some sense. A mobile/manufactured home will NOT stand up to a hurricane. Proven time and again. If it's flattened, well DUH!

Stay off the main water. Be sure the house is concrete block, at least, and there are even more advanced technologies. Some crook builders and realtors palm off frame homes. DO your homework!!! It's your responsibility.

The hurricane center passed within 50 miles of where I live (Pinellas County), and it was a hell of a wind yesterday. A fence panel was knocked down - fixed that in 20 minutes this morning - and I have a lot of raking of leaves and small branches this afternoon. My pool cage/screen didn't budge. But, the raking is about 1/5th of what I had to do as an annual Fall ritual when I lived up North. And, that's about it. Same with most of my neighbors.

Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:50:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
The government should only ban building in high-risk areas if they are going to keep cutting checks to these people.

isn't most of the state (particularly coastal areas) considered a high risk area? isn't the mean elevation of florida something like 100' with many areas being less than 20' above sea level?

after seeing the damage over the last 30 years, i am surprised the building codes are not upgraded. yes, i know you can't armor plate a doublewide against an f5, but it sure looks like plenty of newer construction fails to pass storm muster.



How do you know if you are in a high-risk area? Take out your driver's license and look at it. If it says "Florida" on it, YOU LIVE IN A HIGH-RISK AREA!!!
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:50:32 PM EST
Monolithic domes, ugly as hell, but I think they could handle just about any hurricane.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:53:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By Ragnaroc:
Monolithic domes, ugly as hell, but I think they could handle just about any hurricane.



Yup...reinforced concrete geodesic domes...built properly, they'll withstand a direct hit from an F5 tornado...they laugh at 160 MPH winds...ugly as hell though, and you can't build them if you have an HOA...gotta live out in the sticks...
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:09:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 2:09:47 PM EST by norman74]

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
The government should only ban building in high-risk areas if they are going to keep cutting checks to these people.

isn't most of the state (particularly coastal areas) considered a high risk area? isn't the mean elevation of florida something like 100' with many areas being less than 20' above sea level?

after seeing the damage over the last 30 years, i am surprised the building codes are not upgraded. yes, i know you can't armor plate a doublewide against an f5, but it sure looks like plenty of newer construction fails to pass storm muster.



Actually no, and that's a common misconception. Most of the damage is to roofs, and most of the places that sustained major damage recently were areas that didn't consider themselves to be at risk. The general opinion around the state is that only Miami is really at risk. I have no idea why this is, other than just plain complacency on the part of natives, and stupidity on the part of the carpet-baggers.

You also have to understand that a properly constructed home will have sacrificial parts. For example it is possible to construct a home with break-away eaves, and you can also build a saccrificial garage (semi-detached with a breezeway connecting it to the house so that it's not a continuous roof). A concrete roof is also less likely to fly away.

Most of the damage from a hurricage (or a tornado really for that matter) comes from roofs being ripped off and/or missiles from other roofs and such getting torn off. Roofs fly off because the wind gets a toe-hold. Either gable roofs (reference) or by blowing in the garage door and lifting the roof off starting at the garage, or wind getting under the eaves & lifing the roof off that way (once the eaves go you're left with a hole that the wind can get in through). If you minimize all of these things, and have good storm shutters you should be good to go. Impact glass is another option but can be costly and generally isn't as strong as the best shutters. The obvious upside is that you save yourself an aweful lot of labor come hurricane time, plus you can watch the storm unfold. Windows breaking is another way for the wind to get hold under the roof.


The building code was updated last year acutally. The whole state is now under the Florida Building Code.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:26:43 PM EST
Native Floridian here...probably will be here 'till I die.

Little known fact...if you build a virtually "hurricane proof' house, you will get ZERO discount from the insurance companies! The rash of big bucks homes and the insurance tables equals exactly NO incintive to build better or safer homes, here ar anywhere else. (Norman74 can check this out quickly) The influx of northern money, easy credit, and unskilled (I mean REALLY unskilled!) labor to this area has resulted in shit homes built on shit sites...due to the powers that be being unwilling to say "No" to the almighty dollar..."If we say they can't build there my buddy will lose millions! What's next? MY land?"

To be fair, new wind codes and other regs have made the very newest construction much better anD much of it survived with only minor damage. As far as I am concerned, I hope every damned idiot from out of state IN Florida moves out...things will be better for us if that happens!
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:34:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By IamtheNRA:

Originally Posted By Ragnaroc:
Monolithic domes, ugly as hell, but I think they could handle just about any hurricane.



Yup...reinforced concrete geodesic domes...built properly, they'll withstand a direct hit from an F5 tornado...they laugh at 160 MPH winds...ugly as hell though, and you can't build them if you have an HOA...gotta live out in the sticks...




An F5? Come on - is that stretching it a little?

I've seen footage of the aftermath of F5's that tore the surface off the interstate! The tristate tornado threw railroad cars filled with coal around like toys. I believe that most tornadoes probably couldn't get a good grip on a domed concrete house - but I'd have to see it to believe an F5 wouldn't damage one.



By the way - St. Louis is in tornado alley AND on the New Madrid fault. And NOBODY here builds for earthquakes. When the New Madrid fault finally goes, it's likely destroy most of St. Louis, and possibly kill hundreds of thousands of people.


... and we don't even get awesome weather year round
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:40:35 PM EST
DK-prof

I don't know about a geo dome in an F5/Cat 5. The big issue would be how well the cladding is attached & how well it stay attached. A strong wind can actually pull the cladding off of a building by creating a negative pressure when shearing across a surface. If the wind got even one loose edge it would peel the entire dome like an orange.

Personally if I were building for the ultimate in hurricane proof I'd build a hobbit hole like in LOTR. It wouldn't be too much of a trick to design a window with a frame thats flush to the outside earth and is either impact glass or has a rolling shutter built in. The water penetration could be an issue but you can minimize that as well with proper design (think water management not "proof"ing) and by locating it at a slightly higher elevation than your surroundings.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:45:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By IamtheNRA:

Originally Posted By Ragnaroc:
Monolithic domes, ugly as hell, but I think they could handle just about any hurricane.



Yup...reinforced concrete geodesic domes...built properly, they'll withstand a direct hit from an F5 tornado...they laugh at 160 MPH winds...ugly as hell though, and you can't build them if you have an HOA...gotta live out in the sticks...




An F5? Come on - is that stretching it a little?

I've seen footage of the aftermath of F5's that tore the surface off the interstate! The tristate tornado threw railroad cars filled with coal around like toys. I believe that most tornadoes probably couldn't get a good grip on a domed concrete house - but I'd have to see it to believe an F5 wouldn't damage one.



By the way - St. Louis is in tornado alley AND on the New Madrid fault. And NOBODY here builds for earthquakes. When the New Madrid fault finally goes, it's likely destroy most of St. Louis, and possibly kill hundreds of thousands of people.


... and we don't even get awesome weather year round



I used to be MO National Guard - if you ever get the chance to look at some of the projections for a big Earthquake and the SEMA response plans - they are quite sobering. There is a reason why the MO National Guard has a heavy concentration of aviation, engineer, and MP units.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:46:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By ikor:
Native Floridian here...probably will be here 'till I die.

Little known fact...if you build a virtually "hurricane proof' house, you will get ZERO discount from the insurance companies! The rash of big bucks homes and the insurance tables equals exactly NO incintive to build better or safer homes, here ar anywhere else. (Norman74 can check this out quickly) The influx of northern money, easy credit, and unskilled (I mean REALLY unskilled!) labor to this area has resulted in shit homes built on shit sites...due to the powers that be being unwilling to say "No" to the almighty dollar..."If we say they can't build there my buddy will lose millions! What's next? MY land?"

To be fair, new wind codes and other regs have made the very newest construction much better anD much of it survived with only minor damage. As far as I am concerned, I hope every damned idiot from out of state IN Florida moves out...things will be better for us if that happens!



I don't like your humidity here anyway .
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:47:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
DK-prof

I don't know about a geo dome in an F5/Cat 5. The big issue would be how well the cladding is attached & how well it stay attached. A strong wind can actually pull the cladding off of a building by creating a negative pressure when shearing across a surface. If the wind got even one loose edge it would peel the entire dome like an orange.

Personally if I were building for the ultimate in hurricane proof I'd build a hobbit hole like in LOTR. It wouldn't be too much of a trick to design a window with a frame thats flush to the outside earth and is either impact glass or has a rolling shutter built in. The water penetration could be an issue but you can minimize that as well with proper design (think water management not "proof"ing) and by locating it at a slightly higher elevation than your surroundings.




I don't really know anything about construction or house design or stuff like that, and if I had to be safe, a concrete dome sounds awesome. But an F5 tornado just scares the beejesus out of me!!

I like your idea of a house in a hill!! Would probably be ridiculoulsy cheap to heat and cool as well.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:47:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
DK-prof

I don't know about a geo dome in an F5/Cat 5. The big issue would be how well the cladding is attached & how well it stay attached. A strong wind can actually pull the cladding off of a building by creating a negative pressure when shearing across a surface. If the wind got even one loose edge it would peel the entire dome like an orange.

Personally if I were building for the ultimate in hurricane proof I'd build a hobbit hole like in LOTR. It wouldn't be too much of a trick to design a window with a frame thats flush to the outside earth and is either impact glass or has a rolling shutter built in. The water penetration could be an issue but you can minimize that as well with proper design (think water management not "proof"ing) and by locating it at a slightly higher elevation than your surroundings.



Hence the term "monolithic", there is nothing to peel.

Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:53:27 PM EST
I grew up in Florida. Titusville, from 1966 through 1974.

I love Arizona. It gets hot. That's all. Very few bugs (nasty ones, but not a lot of them.) Fewer snakes than Florida. No earthquakes, no mudslides, no hurricanes, very few tornadoes (especially as far South as Tucson) not enough brush in the valley to worry about fires, much. Just heat four-and-a-half months of the year. Really bad heat only about eight weeks. As long as the A/C works, who cares? I miss the ocean, but then I don't have to worry about it washing my house away, either.

Love the Keys. I'll visit again, when I can. Then come home to Arizona.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 5:38:58 PM EST
I am pretty sure there have been years when N Carolina got 2 or even 3 hurricanes in one season. We may live to see other years where 3-4 hurricanes hit individual states.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 5:56:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By rjroberts:
One can build a home which will withstand a hurricane, but I know of none which will withstand an earthquake (speaking only of single family structure, close to a fault line as specified in the initial post).




Your assumption about single family dwellings and earthquakes is incorrect. They are one of the buildings least likely to suffer damage - other than to a brick chimney - as a wood structure like a home has an amazing amount of flexibility. Very few wood homes are damaged in quakes. I should know. I was living almost on top of the epicenter during the Loma Prieta quake. ZERO damage. It also makes a big difference what kind of land a building is on.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 6:20:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By Ragnaroc:




Ah, missed that part. You mean like these

Here's the best of both worlds, a monolithic hobbit house



and an interesting article
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 6:24:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

I like your idea of a house in a hill!! Would probably be ridiculoulsy cheap to heat and cool as well.



Why do you think so many people in New Mexico are buying and renovating old adobe houses?
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