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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 2/12/2006 1:19:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 1:20:01 PM EDT by 22bad]
Am I reading or remembering this wrong? Didn't the kid actually TRAIN in a TERRORIST TRAINING CAMP?
You would think hope that they would be grateful for the FBI catching a TERRORIST in their midst

An uneasy faith
Lodi's Muslim community on edge after terror probe
Jeff Hood
Lodi Bureau Chief
Feb 12, 2006
www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060212/OPED0305/602120325/1001/NEWS01
LODI - They notice when unfamiliar cars circle the block, drivers talking on cell phones. They notice when new residents move into nearby apartments that overlook their homes and are suspicious of door-to-door salespeople.

That's life for members of Lodi's Muslim community in the eight months since two of their own were arrested, accused of ties to terrorists.

No one is above suspicion - not of plotting terrorist attacks, but for being a federal agent or someone working for the government.

"It's just the fear that you're going to get a knock on the door and a visit at work from the feds," said Mas'ood Cajee, a San Joaquin County resident who writes a column on Muslim issues for an Internet site. "They don't want to be caught up in any dragnet. The fear factor is that great."

Lodi Muslims who once spoke freely with news reporters are now tight-lipped as the trial of Umer Hayat, 48, and his son, Hamid Hayat, 23, is scheduled to begin Tuesday in Sacramento's federal court.

A federal grand jury indicted the men on seven charges. Hamid Hayat is charged with one count of providing material support to terrorists and three counts of lying to the FBI. A key witness to the government's case will be the testimony of a man Lodi residents knew as Nasim Khan, who secretly recorded hundreds of hours of their conversations.

Umer Hayat, an ice cream vendor, is charged with two counts of lying to the FBI for allegedly denying his son took part in terrorist training in Pakistan in 2003 and 2004.

Attorneys expect the case to last nine weeks, with testimony scheduled Tuesdays through Thursdays.

One prominent Pakistani immigrant said the charges, which many in the Lodi Muslim community say are unfounded, amounts to a setback for Pakistani-Americans.

Taj Khan, a former Sacramento Municipal Utility District engineer, ran for Lodi City Council in 1998 and earned the backing of The Record and the Lodi News-Sentinel. He finished fifth in the nine-person race for three seats and, at the time, marveled at his newspaper endorsements.

"We wanted to bring Muslims to the mainstream system of government," Khan said, "but this thing has pushed us back 20 years. We had a future here, and now I can't even think of running."

FBI Special Agent John Cauthen said if that's how Lodi's Muslims feel, it's not the FBI's doing. He said the FBI took pains to meet with anyone with concerns or complaints about the FBI's surveillance and conduct in Lodi.

"To say the investigation was different or the intent was to cause a chilling effect, it doesn't connect from where I'm sitting," said Cauthen from his Sacramento office. "We're not on a fishing expedition, hanging out in Lodi waiting for something to happen. We're just doing what's logical based on the evidence and facts in front of us."

But one of those who complained said the FBI used its highly visible presence to keep anyone from trying to help the Hayats' defense.

"It was clear intimidation, having the FBI around the mosque," said Basim Elkarra, executive director of the Council for American-Islamic Relations' Sacramento Valley chapter. "And it affected everyone. It was intimidation, and it worked. Some people feel it was a message to other Muslims."

Attendance at daily prayers at the Lodi Muslim Mosque is down since the June 5 arrests. Some Muslims say it's because of the media spotlight on Lodi the past eight months, while others say it's the result of a split within Lodi's Muslim community over mosque affairs that led to a still-pending civil lawsuit.

The Lodi mosque also has had difficulty finding a permanent imam. Its spiritual leader, Imam Shabbir Ahmed, was deported last fall because of alleged immigration violations, a charge that stemmed from a joint investigation by the Immigrations and Customs Enforcement agency and the FBI.

A father-son imam team came and left over money issues, according to mosque board president Mohammad Shoaib, and another imam lasted only two weeks. Although Shoaib denied it, some Lodi Muslims say he left because he no longer wanted the job once he learned of Ahmed's fate.

Shoaib said he's seeking an imam who isn't from Pakistan to ensure the imam doesn't have any prior associations with groups potentially hostile to the United States.

Shoaib, one of the few Lodi Muslims willing to talk, said there's no reason to fear federal authorities. He said he's known nothing but freedom since moving to the United States 30 years ago from Pakistan.

"Back in my country, there's no freedom of the press, no equal opportunity," Shoaib said. "Anyone thinking this country is bad should change their mind."

In the meantime, Lodi's Muslims are surely hoping their city's notoriety fades after the Hayats' trial, said Stockton's Cajee, who sees some Lodi residents attending prayer services at the Hammer Lane mosque in Stockton.

"They don't want to be in the spotlight," Cajee said. "There's a desperation for normalcy."
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 2:54:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 2:55:10 PM EDT by arbob]
I wonder what it will take for the gov to really crack down and reopen the Niesei internment camps. I don`t see any Muslims starting up pro US groups. I haven`t seen "Allah for America" , have you? These clowns have to learn that each new ethnic group has to earn respect from the nation at large. These clowns are demanding it. Oh, and yes I am glad they`re feeling paranoid. It means someone in government is doing their job.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:07:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Am I reading or remembering this wrong? Didn't the kid actually TRAIN in a TERRORIST TRAINING CAMP?


I dunno. Did you finish reading the article?


Shoaib said he's seeking an imam who isn't from Pakistan to ensure the imam doesn't have any prior associations with groups potentially hostile to the United States.

Shoaib, one of the few Lodi Muslims willing to talk, said there's no reason to fear federal authorities. He said he's known nothing but freedom since moving to the United States 30 years ago from Pakistan.

"Back in my country, there's no freedom of the press, no equal opportunity," Shoaib said. "Anyone thinking this country is bad should change their mind."

In the meantime, Lodi's Muslims are surely hoping their city's notoriety fades after the Hayats' trial, said Stockton's Cajee, who sees some Lodi residents attending prayer services at the Hammer Lane mosque in Stockton.

"They don't want to be in the spotlight," Cajee said. "There's a desperation for normalcy."


And who can blame them? The FBI caught one guy who had gone to terrorist training, and one father who paid for it. The rest of the people had no more connection to terrorism than John Hinckley's family has to presidential assassination attempts or John Wayne Gacy's neighbors had to gay sex-torture murders.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:11:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Am I reading or remembering this wrong? Didn't the kid actually TRAIN in a TERRORIST TRAINING CAMP?


I dunno. Did you finish reading the article?




Umer Hayat, an ice cream vendor, is charged with two counts of lying to the FBI for allegedly denying his son took part in terrorist training in Pakistan in 2003 and 2004


It was more of a rhetorical question, I remember this guy
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:15:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Am I reading or remembering this wrong? Didn't the kid actually TRAIN in a TERRORIST TRAINING CAMP?


I dunno. Did you finish reading the article?


Shoaib said he's seeking an imam who isn't from Pakistan to ensure the imam doesn't have any prior associations with groups potentially hostile to the United States.

Shoaib, one of the few Lodi Muslims willing to talk, said there's no reason to fear federal authorities. He said he's known nothing but freedom since moving to the United States 30 years ago from Pakistan.

"Back in my country, there's no freedom of the press, no equal opportunity," Shoaib said. "Anyone thinking this country is bad should change their mind."

In the meantime, Lodi's Muslims are surely hoping their city's notoriety fades after the Hayats' trial, said Stockton's Cajee, who sees some Lodi residents attending prayer services at the Hammer Lane mosque in Stockton.

"They don't want to be in the spotlight," Cajee said. "There's a desperation for normalcy."


And who can blame them? The FBI caught one guy who had gone to terrorist training, and one father who paid for it. The rest of the people had no more connection to terrorism than John Hinckley's family has to presidential assassination attempts or John Wayne Gacy's neighbors had to gay sex-torture murders.



How do you know?
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:18:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By IronSamVane:

Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Am I reading or remembering this wrong? Didn't the kid actually TRAIN in a TERRORIST TRAINING CAMP?


I dunno. Did you finish reading the article?


Shoaib said he's seeking an imam who isn't from Pakistan to ensure the imam doesn't have any prior associations with groups potentially hostile to the United States.

Shoaib, one of the few Lodi Muslims willing to talk, said there's no reason to fear federal authorities. He said he's known nothing but freedom since moving to the United States 30 years ago from Pakistan.

"Back in my country, there's no freedom of the press, no equal opportunity," Shoaib said. "Anyone thinking this country is bad should change their mind."

In the meantime, Lodi's Muslims are surely hoping their city's notoriety fades after the Hayats' trial, said Stockton's Cajee, who sees some Lodi residents attending prayer services at the Hammer Lane mosque in Stockton.

"They don't want to be in the spotlight," Cajee said. "There's a desperation for normalcy."


And who can blame them? The FBI caught one guy who had gone to terrorist training, and one father who paid for it. The rest of the people had no more connection to terrorism than John Hinckley's family has to presidential assassination attempts or John Wayne Gacy's neighbors had to gay sex-torture murders.



How do you know?



Racist! Heh
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:47:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By arbob:
I wonder what it will take for the gov to really crack down and reopen the Niesei internment camps. I don`t see any Muslims starting up pro US groups. I haven`t seen "Allah for America" , have you? These clowns have to learn that each new ethnic group has to earn respect from the nation at large. These clowns are demanding it. Oh, and yes I am glad they`re feeling paranoid. It means someone in government is doing their job.


Really? Funny, I always thought that the U.S. was founded on a tradition of individualism, not on pigeonholing people, much less forcing groups into ghettos or internment camps. I guess I need to go back to grade school. Which failing public school did you go to??
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:17:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:

Originally Posted By arbob:
I wonder what it will take for the gov to really crack down and reopen the Niesei internment camps. I don`t see any Muslims starting up pro US groups. I haven`t seen "Allah for America" , have you? These clowns have to learn that each new ethnic group has to earn respect from the nation at large. These clowns are demanding it. Oh, and yes I am glad they`re feeling paranoid. It means someone in government is doing their job.


Really? Funny, I always thought that the U.S. was founded on a tradition of individualism, not on pigeonholing people, much less forcing groups into ghettos or internment camps. I guess I need to go back to grade school. Which failing public school did you go to??



Whites AND Christians denounce the klan in public, FREQUENTLY, can you say the same about muslims denouncing terrorists?
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 1:05:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:

Originally Posted By arbob:
I wonder what it will take for the gov to really crack down and reopen the Niesei internment camps. I don`t see any Muslims starting up pro US groups. I haven`t seen "Allah for America" , have you? These clowns have to learn that each new ethnic group has to earn respect from the nation at large. These clowns are demanding it. Oh, and yes I am glad they`re feeling paranoid. It means someone in government is doing their job.


Really? Funny, I always thought that the U.S. was founded on a tradition of individualism, not on pigeonholing people, much less forcing groups into ghettos or internment camps. I guess I need to go back to grade school. Which failing public school did you go to??



Whites AND Christians denounce the klan in public, FREQUENTLY, can you say the same about muslims denouncing terrorists?


The ones I know do. Do your Muslim friends do anything different?? Oh, right -- you don't HAVE any, because you go around calling them names and asking them if they're terrorists. . . .

Did you see the news article today (AFP/Yahoo) about the German Muslim center which suggested Iran's president come visit Auschwitz and repeat his holocaust denials? I'm sure you'll find some way to diminish that, though.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 2:17:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:

Originally Posted By arbob:
I wonder what it will take for the gov to really crack down and reopen the Niesei internment camps. I don`t see any Muslims starting up pro US groups. I haven`t seen "Allah for America" , have you? These clowns have to learn that each new ethnic group has to earn respect from the nation at large. These clowns are demanding it. Oh, and yes I am glad they`re feeling paranoid. It means someone in government is doing their job.


Really? Funny, I always thought that the U.S. was founded on a tradition of individualism, not on pigeonholing people, much less forcing groups into ghettos or internment camps. I guess I need to go back to grade school. Which failing public school did you go to??



Whites AND Christians denounce the klan in public, FREQUENTLY, can you say the same about muslims denouncing terrorists?


The ones I know do. Do your Muslim friends do anything different?? Oh, right -- you don't HAVE any, because you go around calling them names and asking them if they're terrorists. . . .

Did you see the news article today (AFP/Yahoo) about the German Muslim center which suggested Iran's president come visit Auschwitz and repeat his holocaust denials? I'm sure you'll find some way to diminish that, though.



Too little, too late. Hug your muslim friends.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:27:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:

Originally Posted By arbob:
I wonder what it will take for the gov to really crack down and reopen the Niesei internment camps. I don`t see any Muslims starting up pro US groups. I haven`t seen "Allah for America" , have you? These clowns have to learn that each new ethnic group has to earn respect from the nation at large. These clowns are demanding it. Oh, and yes I am glad they`re feeling paranoid. It means someone in government is doing their job.


Really? Funny, I always thought that the U.S. was founded on a tradition of individualism, not on pigeonholing people, much less forcing groups into ghettos or internment camps. I guess I need to go back to grade school. Which failing public school did you go to??



Whites AND Christians denounce the klan in public, FREQUENTLY, can you say the same about muslims denouncing terrorists?


The ones I know do. Do your Muslim friends do anything different?? Oh, right -- you don't HAVE any, because you go around calling them names and asking them if they're terrorists. . . .

Did you see the news article today (AFP/Yahoo) about the German Muslim center which suggested Iran's president come visit Auschwitz and repeat his holocaust denials? I'm sure you'll find some way to diminish that, though.




I feel better already. A German Muslim center has asked the Iranian president to visit Auschiwitz.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 10:43:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:

Originally Posted By arbob:
I wonder what it will take for the gov to really crack down and reopen the Niesei internment camps. I don`t see any Muslims starting up pro US groups. I haven`t seen "Allah for America" , have you? These clowns have to learn that each new ethnic group has to earn respect from the nation at large. These clowns are demanding it. Oh, and yes I am glad they`re feeling paranoid. It means someone in government is doing their job.


Really? Funny, I always thought that the U.S. was founded on a tradition of individualism, not on pigeonholing people, much less forcing groups into ghettos or internment camps. I guess I need to go back to grade school. Which failing public school did you go to??



Whites AND Christians denounce the klan in public, FREQUENTLY, can you say the same about muslims denouncing terrorists?



I can say that there are muslim US Servicemembers serving in Iraq, Afganistan, the PI, right this fucking minute. What are you doing?
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 10:46:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Unicorn:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:

Originally Posted By arbob:
I wonder what it will take for the gov to really crack down and reopen the Niesei internment camps. I don`t see any Muslims starting up pro US groups. I haven`t seen "Allah for America" , have you? These clowns have to learn that each new ethnic group has to earn respect from the nation at large. These clowns are demanding it. Oh, and yes I am glad they`re feeling paranoid. It means someone in government is doing their job.


Really? Funny, I always thought that the U.S. was founded on a tradition of individualism, not on pigeonholing people, much less forcing groups into ghettos or internment camps. I guess I need to go back to grade school. Which failing public school did you go to??



Whites AND Christians denounce the klan in public, FREQUENTLY, can you say the same about muslims denouncing terrorists?



I can say that there are muslim US Servicemembers serving in Iraq, Afganistan, the PI, right this fucking minute. What are you doing?



Hey Mister high and mighty....there were German and Japanese US servicemembers who fought in WWII...doesn't change the fact that our enemies were Germany and Japan....

Take off the blinders, see the truth....now our friendly RoPers are burning down KFC's...over cartoons...see any problem with this?
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 11:46:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Unicorn:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:

Originally Posted By arbob:
I wonder what it will take for the gov to really crack down and reopen the Niesei internment camps. I don`t see any Muslims starting up pro US groups. I haven`t seen "Allah for America" , have you? These clowns have to learn that each new ethnic group has to earn respect from the nation at large. These clowns are demanding it. Oh, and yes I am glad they`re feeling paranoid. It means someone in government is doing their job.


Really? Funny, I always thought that the U.S. was founded on a tradition of individualism, not on pigeonholing people, much less forcing groups into ghettos or internment camps. I guess I need to go back to grade school. Which failing public school did you go to??



Whites AND Christians denounce the klan in public, FREQUENTLY, can you say the same about muslims denouncing terrorists?



I can say that there are muslim US Servicemembers serving in Iraq, Afganistan, the PI, right this fucking minute. What are you doing?



Apparently I am asking questions on a public forum that you find "uncomfortable"
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 11:47:31 PM EDT
It is all a mistake, he was just a poser...........riiight

Prosecutors: Calif. Man Trained for JihadProsecutors Say California Man Is a Trained Terrorist Aiming to Attack U.S.
DON THOMPSON
abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1628195
SACRAMENTO, Calif. Feb 16, 2006 (AP)— A man accused of attending an al-Qaida training camp is a trained terrorist intent on attacking Americans, prosecutors alleged Thursday, but his attorney called him just a directionless young man prone to wild storytelling.

In opening statements of Hamid Hayat's federal trial, prosecutors said the 23-year-old Lodi man visited the Pakistan camp in 2003 and 2004, then returned to his family's home in California farm country and awaited information about potential terrorist targets.

"Hamid Hayat talked about jihad before he even left the United States. He talked about acts of violence, he talked about training camps. He received weapons training while he was there," prosecutor Laura Ferris said in opening statements. "He admitted he went to a jihadist training camp, not once but twice. … He returned to the United States to commit jihad, and he was waiting for orders."

Hayat, who was born in the U.S., is charged with supporting terrorists by attending the camp, and with lying about it to the FBI. He faces up to 39 years in prison if convicted.

Hamid Hayat's attorney, Wazhma Mojaddidi, said the government has no proof that her client attended a terrorist camp, despite information agents received from a paid informant.

She said Hayat was prone to exaggeration and "has made statements that are just simply not true." His statements to the FBI will expose contradictions and inaccuracies, she said.

The paid informant, who grew close to Hamid Hayat before he departed to Pakistan in May 2003, recorded hundreds of hours of audiotapes. In them, Mojaddidi said, jurors will hear the informant describe Hayat as lazy, lacking ambition "and just a big storyteller."

Hayat and his father, 48-year-old Umer Hayat, have been in custody since their arrests last June. Umer Hayat is charged with making false statements to FBI agents about his son's activities and could face 16 years in prison if convicted.

They are being tried together before separate juries. Opening statements in Umer Hayat's portion of the trial are scheduled for Tuesday.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 3:39:29 AM EDT
Our enemies are the individuals, groups, and possibly/probably a government or two giving aid, NOT a religion. If you want to blame religion for things, then Christianity has been responsible for more deaths than anything else. Oh, now you're going to tell me that was long ago right? Then what we have today isn't Christianity, or what was called Christianity then wasn't. Just like what these jackasses are doing isn't true Islam. and now you'll say how Christianity might have been that way but it changed. Bullshit. The religion didn't change the people did, and that is what is needed now.
You are saying that ALL Muslims are evil and need to be nuked from orbit. That includes the ones that are actually serving this country so that you can post your drivel from the relative safety of your easy chair. WWII? Ok, so EVERY German or Japanese person was evil and needed to be killed. Instead of just sending Japanese people to internment camps, they should have been actual death camps, and Germans should have been rounded up and sent their too.
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