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Posted: 8/1/2009 3:13:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 3:14:11 PM EST by RockHard13F]
You are responsible for preparing recruits for combat operations. The situation is relatively dire, and you are allocated only 200 dollars per recruit to equip them.

-You are mandated to provide them with matching uniforms (they must provide their footwear).

-You will recieve an additional 25 dollars for each recruit to cover training expenses.

-You must document what you outfit them with, with each items rough cost.

This is supposed to be hard, and the budget impossibly small, and supposed to force you to prioritize.

As a general guideline to start, they need at least a uniform, a ruck, and a way to carry water...

Assume they will be issued weapons and ammunition, but you don't know if it will be Mosin Nagants or M16s.

They must be distinct from regular military forces.

Discuss.

-Ben
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:24:16 PM EST
Discuss.



Why?
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:26:37 PM EST
Drill and PT...and I guess let them starve to death after the first week since they'll need alot more food than $200.00 is going to cover.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:29:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By Soylent:
Drill and PT...and I guess let them starve to death after the first week since they'll need alot more food than $200.00 is going to cover.


You have 200 dollars each for their unforms and TA50...I never said that was the all inclusive budget. Just what you are responsible for. Of course, even if that WAS all you had, and you were responsible for feeding them, you could recruit ARFCOMMERs and they would live off their blubber for weeks.

-Ben
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:32:24 PM EST
if funds are that tight, they don't need matching uniforms.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:36:56 PM EST
have them wear there birthday suits.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:37:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
You are responsible for preparing recruits for combat operations. The situation is relatively dire, and you are allocated only 200 dollars per recruit to equip them.

-You are mandated to provide them with matching uniforms (they must provide their footwear).

-You will recieve an additional 25 dollars for each recruit to cover training expenses.

-You must document what you outfit them with, with each items rough cost.

This is supposed to be hard, and the budget impossibly small, and supposed to force you to prioritize.

As a general guideline to start, they need at least a uniform, a ruck, and a way to carry water...

Assume they will be issued weapons and ammunition, but you don't know if it will be Mosin Nagants or M16s.

They must be distinct from regular military forces.

Discuss.

-Ben

2 sets of BDUs or DCUs, 1 ALICE ruck, 2 GI canteens with ALICE-green pouches....

You should be able to get all of that for $100 or less...

Talking 'Junk Bin' items from the Army-Navy store, or off the web... There is a HUGE surplus of BDUs since the Army got rid of them - Same for green ALICE gear....

Done...
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:38:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 3:41:28 PM EST by LarryThePirate]
...
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:38:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
Originally Posted By Soylent:
Drill and PT...and I guess let them starve to death after the first week since they'll need alot more food than $200.00 is going to cover.


You have 200 dollars each for their unforms and TA50...I never said that was the all inclusive budget. Just what you are responsible for. Of course, even if that WAS all you had, and you were responsible for feeding them, you could recruit ARFCOMMERs and they would live off their blubber for weeks.

-Ben


I'm suiting them up in whatever they wore when they came in, and buying some dye. The rest of it I guess is coming from either El Salvador or the local surplus store
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:39:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By htuman:
have them wear there birthday suits.



Yeah, have them charge the enemy nekkid, should catch them by surprise at least

Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:39:19 PM EST
One of these.


One of these.


One of these.


And one of these


And you still have $100 to spend on hookers and blow.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:48:30 PM EST
Fun game, and I have put thought in to it before.

I'm gonna work with the assumption its summertime
I'm also assuming food is not in the budget, but what I would feed them would be part of the training

I would start off telling them to bring a pair of work or hiking boots from home, pair of running shoes, underwear and any military surplus camping/hunting shit they have.

Two pairs dickies work pants in brown = $36
4 fruit of the loom long sleeve OD t-shorts = $24
4 pair hiking socks = $16
knock off boonie hat = $6
cheepo web belt = $5

Clothing = $87 (didn't mean to )

Surplus ALICE gear (or izzy gear whatever I can find)
2 x canteens 2 x mag pouches =$40
canteen cup = $6
Poncho Liner = $20
Poncho = $15
Surplus German "Mountain Ruck" = $20

Field gear = $101

Total = $189 each

The rest gets pooled to buy things like krylon, 100mph tape, 550 cord, zip ties, ziplocks etc as well as
throw in some burlap bags to make cammo covers (this could come from the rice they would be eating allot of) BOK kits to issue to medics and the like

I could come up with a whole training schedule if you like
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:48:34 PM EST
But you don't need to provide their weapon, remember? Good list otherwise.

I am actually along Dave_A's lines of thinking. Surplus gear is the way it is gonna have to go...

Surplus pistol belt + used LBV=25 dollars

OD BDU set + cover=40 dollars

2 canteens + used pouches=10 dollars

Rucksacks...actually thinking 3 day pack, not ALICE= 30 dollars.

For starters...

-Ben
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:50:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By Currahee:
Fun game, and I have put thought in to it before.

I'm gonna work with the assumption its summertime
I'm also assuming food is not in the budget, but what I would feed them would be part of the training

I would start off telling them to bring a pair of work or hiking boots from home, pair of running shoes, underwear and any military surplus camping/hunting shit they have.

Two pairs dickies work pants in brown = $36
4 fruit of the loom long sleeve OD t-shorts = $24
4 pair hiking socks = $16
knock off boonie hat = $6
cheepo web belt = $5

Clothing = $87 (didn't mean to )

Surplus ALICE gear (or izzy gear whatever I can find)
2 x canteens 2 x mag pouches =$40
canteen cup = $6
Poncho Liner = $20
Poncho = $15
Surplus German "Mountain Ruck" = $20

Field gear = $101

Total = $189 each

The rest gets pooled to buy things like krylon, 100mph tape, 550 cord, zip ties, ziplocks etc as well as
throw in some burlap bags to make cammo covers (this could come from the rice they would be eating allot of) BOK kits to issue to medics and the like

I could come up with a whole training schedule if you like



By all means. And keep it in budget. As you said, it is an interesting exercise when in the right mindset.

-Ben
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:50:47 PM EST
Buy them each 5 back copies of Soldier of Fortune, make myself the Colonel and get a party packet bucket of KFC. Then watch re runs of Red Dawn while drinking cheap beer.

That bout covers it
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:52:55 PM EST
Hookers $100
Blow $100

Run into battle stark naked and bumpfiring from the hip.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:56:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 3:57:47 PM EST by Currahee]
Originally Posted By RockHard13F:

I could come up with a whole training schedule if you like



By all means. And keep it in budget. As you said, it is an interesting exercise when in the right mindset.

-Ben


Well I would need things like time schedules - types of operations - details on the opposition - types of weapons - numbers of troops expected to show up - facilities available.

But give me a few minutes and I'll come up with a general idea

Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:58:42 PM EST
$200? They'll be fighting in dickies and wranglers.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 4:01:31 PM EST
Matching uniforms for $200?

It's off to the Goodwill Store for bluejeans and t-shirts. They'll have to requisition other clothing items in combat (just like Johnny Reb did later in the war).

I'd also go with Mosin-Nagant rifles as they're sturdy, reliable (Russian soldier couldn't break it) and affordable.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 4:05:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By Currahee:
Fun game, and I have put thought in to it before.

I'm gonna work with the assumption its summertime
I'm also assuming food is not in the budget, but what I would feed them would be part of the training

I would start off telling them to bring a pair of work or hiking boots from home, pair of running shoes, underwear and any military surplus camping/hunting shit they have.

Two pairs dickies work pants in brown = $36
4 fruit of the loom long sleeve OD t-shorts = $24
4 pair hiking socks = $16
knock off boonie hat = $6
cheepo web belt = $5

Clothing = $87 (didn't mean to )

Surplus ALICE gear (or izzy gear whatever I can find)
2 x canteens 2 x mag pouches =$40
canteen cup = $6
Poncho Liner = $20
Poncho = $15
Surplus German "Mountain Ruck" = $20

Field gear = $101

Total = $189 each

The rest gets pooled to buy things like krylon, 100mph tape, 550 cord, zip ties, ziplocks etc as well as
throw in some burlap bags to make cammo covers (this could come from the rice they would be eating allot of) BOK kits to issue to medics and the like

I could come up with a whole training schedule if you like

extremely good list

Link Posted: 8/1/2009 4:06:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 4:13:41 PM EST by RockHard13F]
Originally Posted By Currahee:
Originally Posted By RockHard13F:

I could come up with a whole training schedule if you like



By all means. And keep it in budget. As you said, it is an interesting exercise when in the right mindset.

-Ben


Well I would need things like time schedules -

You have 2 hours a day, 6 days a week, for 3 months.

types of operations -

They will be acting as a light infantry company in support of very limited regular forces.

details on the opposition -

Convential forces from Russia and China. There is limited enemy armor in what will be their AOR due to heavily wooded , hilly terrain. Most population centers are villages or very small towns.

types of weapons -

Primarily old kick back surplus. Assume they are beginning with Mosin Nagants, with an AK for each squad for the AR. They will be getting US supplied weapons sometime in the future, but that could be a year or more out.

numbers of troops expected to show up -

You have a platoon that is your specific responsibility.

facilities available.

A 100 meter range, and the deep dark woods.

But give me a few minutes and I'll come up with a general idea



-Ben
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 4:08:02 PM EST
Another tinfoil jerk-off fantasy, time to move on.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 4:08:49 PM EST
I hope its Mosins, i have 2 of em and plenty of ammo. even bayo's to go on. If I put a bayo on my AR in NY I will go to Prison for 10 years for posession of an Assault Weapon
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 4:11:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
You are responsible for preparing recruits for combat operations. The situation is relatively dire, and you are allocated only 200 dollars per recruit to equip them.

-You are mandated to provide them with matching uniforms (they must provide their footwear).

-You will recieve an additional 25 dollars for each recruit to cover training expenses.

-You must document what you outfit them with, with each items rough cost.

This is supposed to be hard, and the budget impossibly small, and supposed to force you to prioritize.

As a general guideline to start, they need at least a uniform, a ruck, and a way to carry water...

Assume they will be issued weapons and ammunition, but you don't know if it will be Mosin Nagants or M16s.

They must be distinct from regular military forces.

Discuss.

-Ben

2 sets of BDUs or DCUs, 1 ALICE ruck, 2 GI canteens with ALICE-green pouches....

You should be able to get all of that for $100 or less...

Talking 'Junk Bin' items from the Army-Navy store, or off the web... There is a HUGE surplus of BDUs since the Army got rid of them - Same for green ALICE gear....

Done...


Im guessing if a "civilian army is required, the local Army-navey or web store will be closed?
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 4:13:13 PM EST
Assume you can aquire things just as you could now, but your window to do so is growing narrow.

-Ben
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 4:13:25 PM EST
Not sure if this was said or not, but if we are in a "Dire" situation, then money would have no relevancy and you could just go out and steal whatever you want/need.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 4:28:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 4:32:52 PM EST by Currahee]
EDIT - OKay I wrote this before I realized it was a part time thing

1st I would need to scope out some stuff like where they are sleeping etc, then look for training areas - roadmarch routes, ranges etc.

Some things I would expect could be come by for free -shovels and pioneering tools, scrap lumber to build obstacles, wire, the training budget would go to the training aids I couldn't find- I'd also

I imagine I would have some cadre- for the sake of argument I'm imagining some of my shooting buddies.

I'm not going to describe meals as I have no idea

lets say I have weapons for 100 people and 200 show up for training and they are being thrown into the field in 3 weeks- the longer I have the more I could build them up.... but since we're talking desperate I'm working on a short time schedule. The idea would be to ID out the guys who could actually put up with the physical and mental demands the best.

Day 1 issuing gear and initial PT test and interview that mostly identified what kind of experience they had previous - I would especially be looking for combat arms experience, EMT experience and hunting experience

the end of day 1 would be a 5-6 mile road march with o food and about 20 pounds of sand in their rucks - "weapons" would be PVC pipes loaded with sand
Benning

Day 2-4 would be a process of applying stress (a hell week for navy seal fans, a final FTX for people who have been to ft) - like I said, instead of building them up I'm doing the cut early to save time.

mixed in with round robin training on 1st aid and individual tactics would be road marches - mud crawls - guard duties - very little food - pit fights with prizes like an apple, no more than 2 hours of sleep at a time. I'll add weight and stress to end up with the number of people I want.

Day 5 would be a full on combat experience - with hastily given orders, smoke and fireworks added for confusion, low crawling with live fire overhead etc.

Day 6 they come back, get a solid meal and 10 hours to clean and rest. I imagine we'd be staying in something like a church or school gym.

Day 7-12 "troops" are broken down by squad and moved though round robin training. Day long courses include first aid, primary weapons, land nav, secondary weapons (MGs etc), squad tactics 1 and squad tactics 2.

Day 13 is a break with range firing and people getting asigned specialties. Specialties are based on their attitude and performance thus far and their previous experience. They would include rifleman - medic - squad leader - plus other stuff that I might be able to come up with.

Day 15-17 is specialty training

Day 18 is assignment to squads and performance of squad tactics with new squad leaders and ends with a tactical movement of two separate teams to a traiing area

Day 19-21 is a force on force final FTX.

Link Posted: 8/1/2009 4:36:33 PM EST
Surplus cammies from the surplus shop, boots/sneakers from home, LBV, water canteens/pouches, poncho liner, Mosin nagant rifle, 100 rounds of ammunition.

Liberator pistol concept-shoot an invader and take his weapon and gear.

I'm commandeering the first t-55 though.

Link Posted: 8/1/2009 4:45:59 PM EST





As much as I like hookers and blow I have a feeling that would be the last thing on anyone's mind should the occasion ever present itself.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:01:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dr_Love_Butter:
Another tinfoil jerk-off fantasy, time to move on.


It's a fun exercise in planning logistics - no one asked you to click the thread
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:05:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 5:06:24 PM EST by Ryan1021]
I guess it would depend on the situation but if it is dire and you have supply your own unit, why would you want uniforms? Let them dress in civilian attire and blend back in when the fighting is done unless of course they are going to be a police force of some kind.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:09:45 PM EST
Duck and Cover.


That is how you prepare today's civillians for war.

I read the header of the OP, and nothing past it.

If a big flash takes me out, it will not matter.

If some country tries to send ANYTHING towards my coastline, they are nothing more than plain stupid.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:20:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 5:20:44 PM EST by DELTAXRAY]
How many soldiers are you talking about? $200 each for say 25,000 troops is not enough money. Two possible scenarios; equip 25,000 women in whatever cheap outfits can be purchased for $25 each and use the rest of the $ for cheap bolt action rifle and ammo. The next step is to confront the enemy. When in sight of their opponent you tell the women to charge right after you tell them the opposing force thinks they look fat in those uniforms! Battle is over in 10 minutes. Second scenario; use $10,000 each to equip 500 soldiers and train them for a mission to loot and pillage to raise money to equip and train the rest of the 24,500 fighting force. Using the force to aquire ever increasing financial resources to continue the campaign.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 6:49:38 PM EST
i would skip the surplus for equipment-chack the DRMO auctions. the gear is used and most of the time has simple cosmetic defects. the equipment that has small tears can easily be repaired. another plus for the DRMO route is it's relativlely new designed gear (ie MOLLE) i would skip the canteens and get camelbak knockoffs-100oz bladder and carrier from Wally World is seven bucks. foot wear is provided, so I will skip that. as for unis, surplus all the way. I would probably go with OD unis. I would also pick up a bunch os VS-17 panels for identifiers. as for head gear, plain od ball caps-once into units, i would allow "morale" or "team" hats-kinda like SF types.
if i had a choice in weapons, i would go with m16s-if they are getting mosins i would try to aquire them some kind of cheap side arm-nagant revolvers/makarov/FEG type
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 7:53:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By Roland3:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
You are responsible for preparing recruits for combat operations. The situation is relatively dire, and you are allocated only 200 dollars per recruit to equip them.

-You are mandated to provide them with matching uniforms (they must provide their footwear).

-You will recieve an additional 25 dollars for each recruit to cover training expenses.

-You must document what you outfit them with, with each items rough cost.

This is supposed to be hard, and the budget impossibly small, and supposed to force you to prioritize.

As a general guideline to start, they need at least a uniform, a ruck, and a way to carry water...

Assume they will be issued weapons and ammunition, but you don't know if it will be Mosin Nagants or M16s.

They must be distinct from regular military forces.

Discuss.

-Ben

2 sets of BDUs or DCUs, 1 ALICE ruck, 2 GI canteens with ALICE-green pouches....

You should be able to get all of that for $100 or less...

Talking 'Junk Bin' items from the Army-Navy store, or off the web... There is a HUGE surplus of BDUs since the Army got rid of them - Same for green ALICE gear....

Done...


Im guessing if a "civilian army is required, the local Army-navey or web store will be closed?

This is a logistics exercise...

The enemy is undefined, and presumed to be external...

Quit thinking 'tinfoil' and think 'Roosevelt's Rough Riders'....
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 8:00:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 8:03:32 PM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
But you don't need to provide their weapon, remember? Good list otherwise.

I am actually along Dave_A's lines of thinking. Surplus gear is the way it is gonna have to go...

Surplus pistol belt + used LBV=25 dollars

OD BDU set + cover=40 dollars

2 canteens + used pouches=10 dollars

Rucksacks...actually thinking 3 day pack, not ALICE= 30 dollars.

For starters...

-Ben

My thoughts were something like this:

1) If you go with the ALICE Ruck, you can attach the water supply to the rucksack... No need for a LBE/LBV... We're training them, not equipping them for combat... The most ammo they will need is 4-5 10rd stripper clips for whatever cheap surplus rifles (Turk Mausers, anyone?) they will get their basic 'This is a gun' firearms training with...

2) Woodland cammies... I've seen BDUs go for $5/each piece in the 'bargain bins' around here, and on E-bay...

By using shit the Army is throwing away (DRMO, Surplus Store, Ebay, Govtliquidation.com) you can save money over OD fatigues & other such things that are no longer in service

They provide their own boots...

The one thing I forgot to add, is 1 undershirt & 1 cheap-ass sweat shorts for PT gear...

Training program? Week 1-2: PT, get yelled at, D&C, learn who's in charge... Week 3, KD range with cheap ass bolt-action rifles... Qualification is getting 2 consecutive magazines inside a paper man-sized target at 100... Week 4, basic squad tactics...

Done...

Who ever issues them their actual weapons can teach them the rest...
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 8:04:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/2/2009 1:45:52 PM EST by 1387Delta]

Originally Posted By Dr_Love_Butter:
Another tinfoil jerk-off fantasy, time to move on.

They are just trying to have some Saturday night fun. If you didn't know, what you are doing is what people refer to as shitting in someone's thread.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 8:11:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By Currahee:
Fun game, and I have put thought in to it before.

I'm gonna work with the assumption its summertime
I'm also assuming food is not in the budget, but what I would feed them would be part of the training

I would start off telling them to bring a pair of work or hiking boots from home, pair of running shoes, underwear and any military surplus camping/hunting shit they have.

Two pairs dickies work pants in brown = $36
4 fruit of the loom long sleeve OD t-shorts = $24
4 pair hiking socks = $16
knock off boonie hat = $6
cheepo web belt = $5

Clothing = $87 (didn't mean to )

Surplus ALICE gear (or izzy gear whatever I can find)
2 x canteens 2 x mag pouches =$40
canteen cup = $6
Poncho Liner = $20
Poncho = $15
Surplus German "Mountain Ruck" = $20

Field gear = $101

Total = $189 each

The rest gets pooled to buy things like krylon, 100mph tape, 550 cord, zip ties, ziplocks etc as well as
throw in some burlap bags to make cammo covers (this could come from the rice they would be eating allot of) BOK kits to issue to medics and the like

I could come up with a whole training schedule if you like


Nice.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 8:28:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By MOS2111:
Originally Posted By Currahee:
Fun game, and I have put thought in to it before.

I'm gonna work with the assumption its summertime
I'm also assuming food is not in the budget, but what I would feed them would be part of the training

I would start off telling them to bring a pair of work or hiking boots from home, pair of running shoes, underwear and any military surplus camping/hunting shit they have.

Two pairs dickies work pants in brown = $36
4 fruit of the loom long sleeve OD t-shorts = $24
4 pair hiking socks = $16
knock off boonie hat = $6
cheepo web belt = $5

Clothing = $87 (didn't mean to )

Surplus ALICE gear (or izzy gear whatever I can find)
2 x canteens 2 x mag pouches =$40
canteen cup = $6
Poncho Liner = $20
Poncho = $15
Surplus German "Mountain Ruck" = $20

Field gear = $101

Total = $189 each

The rest gets pooled to buy things like krylon, 100mph tape, 550 cord, zip ties, ziplocks etc as well as
throw in some burlap bags to make cammo covers (this could come from the rice they would be eating allot of) BOK kits to issue to medics and the like

I could come up with a whole training schedule if you like


Nice.


If your recruits are ARFCOMmer's, then you can use the whole 200 on bribes to the gubmint...
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 8:50:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 8:51:25 PM EST by jbombelli]
My guys all get a $200 knife.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 8:51:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By InjunJoe:
Hookers $100
Blow $100

Run into battle stark naked and bumpfiring from the hip.


Sir, I would follow you to the gates of hell.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 8:55:42 PM EST
Tag for post in a few months about some homegrown militia trying to knock over a bank all wearing Dickies, surplus gear and armed with Mosin Nagant 91/30's.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 8:56:04 PM EST
Time frame?
Safe to assume that the provided footwear will be absolute shit too.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 9:00:51 PM EST
Lump the money together and bribe the local warlord with it. If that doesn't work, bribe his second in command with it.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 9:25:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By Wehrmacht_Sniper:
Tag for post in a few months about some homegrown militia trying to knock over a bank all wearing Dickies, surplus gear and armed with Mosin Nagant 91/30's.


[Internetposter on seeing a Mosin Nagant] Isn't that the gun they used in Heat "Lukewarm"?

-Ben
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 9:46:39 PM EST
First of all, I'd only recruit man-hating butch lesbians and radical feminists.

Secondly, I'd make the uniform plaid shirts and shapeless jeans.

Now that the recruits, and their uniform (that they showed up in) are covered -

I'd buy a video camera (out of the pooled $200/per), make a video demonizing the opposition, focusing on what they think of, and how they treat women, lesbians, and uglies. Since they'll all hit the trifecta, this should be pretty good to amp them up.

Then I'll give each one an axe, a line of blow (or hit of meth), and point them in the right direction.

Once the bloodbath is over, I'll scrounge whatever is still usable gear wise from the bloody kibble that used to be the opposition, sell thier remains as dog/cat/cattle feed, and use the gear and cash to outfit 1,000+ more angry XX types.
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