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Posted: 9/25/2005 3:50:03 PM EDT
I knew that it was poisonous, but is it really Mustard Gas?

Yes, I heard it on King of the Hill
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 3:50:34 PM EDT
Mix and inhale. Post results.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 3:51:58 PM EDT
Lets see, King of the Hill.............Don't know if it's mustard gas but it'll clean your clock quick.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 3:53:18 PM EDT
Bleach + Ammonia = Chlorine gas
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 3:53:47 PM EDT
I think it just gives off chlorine gas which is poisonous but not an eye and lung irritant like mustard gas.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 3:55:21 PM EDT
Not even close to Mustard Gas ... the gas produced is chlorine gas and it'll kill ya just the same. Now if you can heat it through a burner of some type, you'll get Phosgene gas, THAT's a real kisk ass one for sure. Have a mask handy if you want to play around.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 3:55:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 3:57:43 PM EDT by migradog]
Thought is made Phosgene
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 3:58:26 PM EDT
Note that the reaction does not only produce chlorine gas (Cl_2) but also Chloramine gasses (NH3Cl, NH3Cl_2) which are, as I understand, even more dangerous.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 3:58:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ktrout01:
Not even close to Mustard Gas ... the gas produced is chlorine gas and it'll kill ya just the same. Now if you can heat it through a burner of some type, you'll get Phosgene gas, THAT's a real kisk ass one for sure. Have a mask handy if you want to play around.



No, I don't want to play around. I was just wondering if it really was that easy to make Mustard Gas. Strictly academic.

Are you trying to get me invaded or something?
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 3:59:54 PM EDT
i remember the first time i mixed them. " i'm gonna clean the shop floor real good.... what the hell the floor is smoking...... O' Shit" it didn't take to long before i got a good head ache. i didn't stay in there after i dumped the bleach and it started steaming, just having to run back in and open the doors up to get some air in there is all it took.

Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:05:27 PM EDT
Bleach plus ammonia produces chloramines. Very deadly.

Mustard gas is one class of compounds used in WW1 chemical warfare, specifically, mechlorethamine. Phosgene and chlorine gas are two other gasses used by both sides of WW1.

I touched on this subject in the introduction chapter of my dissertation.

Kindstranger, Ph.D.
Professor of Organic Chemistry


P.S. Never ever mix:

1. Chlorine bleach (sodium hypochlorite) and ammonia (as stated)

2. Chlorine bleach and vinegar. This evolves chlorine gas rapidly.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:10:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kindstranger:
2. Chlorine bleach and vinegar. This evolves chlorine gas rapidly.



More generally, do not mix Chlorine bleach with any acid, as this will evolve chlorine gas.

with warm regards,
Mr. Psmith.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:14:17 PM EDT
So I wouldn't want to put these 2 ingredients in a cannister seperated by a thin membrane then toss it at the local crackheads ?

Just checking.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:23:22 PM EDT
I was stupid enough to mix it trying to clean a sink once. I tried the bleach first, then poured ammonia into the sink when it combined in the trap below the sink I almost passed out. I barely made it out of the bathroom to fresh air and I had trouble breathing for a few hours later. Yes it works
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:25:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gregory_A:
So I wouldn't want to put these 2 ingredients in a cannister seperated by a thin membrane then toss it at the local crackheads ?

Just checking.



No, I dont think that would be a good idea! Not that I would care though.

That sounds a little too complex. Why not just tape two glass bottles together, and use those to seperate the bleach and ammonia. When they hit the ground they break and the two mix. Kind of like an evil, uber-Molotov.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:28:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ktrout01:
Not even close to Mustard Gas ... the gas produced is chlorine gas and it'll kill ya just the same. Now if you can heat it through a burner of some type, you'll get Phosgene gas, THAT's a real kisk ass one for sure. Have a mask handy if you want to play around.



Heat what? The gas or the ammonia/bleach mix? Just curious...
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:30:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FredM:
Bleach + Ammonia = Chlorine gas



I don't know if it's chlorine gas or what, but it BURNS, boy!

I found out the hard way, once. Had to evacuate the area I was cleaning.

Turns out Comet did the trick in 5 seconds, flat.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:34:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By roboman:
Mix and inhale. Post results.



<riases hand>

OK...I was a newleywed and 21 and a new homeowner at the time: we'd bought a house that needed alot of work and the kitchen floor was abominable.
I scrubbed it trying to make it shine and in the process, crossed cleaners.

When I came to, hubby had dragged me outside and was cursing at me for such stupidity.




I can honestly tell you, that was the last time he was right about that
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:41:03 PM EDT
You can generate phosgene by burning teflon.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:43:39 PM EDT
When I was at a boarding school we had to clean the bathrooms. Two sets of rooms twice a week in a rotation.

Whenever one guy's room came up, he'd make chlorine gas in the toilets. Big green cloud floating through the dorm.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:45:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
You can generate phosgene by burning teflon.



Burn PVC pipe, it generates lots of phosgene.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:46:06 PM EDT
Also a bad idea to clean a cat box with bleach........
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:59:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FredM:
Bleach + Ammonia = Chlorine gas




Ding ding ding, we have a winner 3 post in.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:05:13 PM EDT
If I recall correctly, some of the Marines held hostage in Iran back in '79 were planning an escape attempt that involved a bleach-ammonia mixture from cleaning supplies.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:08:00 PM EDT
Mustard gas? No. Deadly gas? Yes, it is very possible to die from it.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:10:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:12:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 5:20:04 PM EDT by Swindle1984]
A gask mask will NOT protect you against chlorine gas and similar chemicals.



I've nearly killed myself on three occassions while using cleaning chemicals. Once when I was still in my single digits I was stupid enough to mix cleaners to mop the floor with. Fortunately I was able to hit the fan switch and scramble out of the room before the fumes overcame me. It took literally seconds for me to be nearly over-whelmed.

A second incident I was mopping the floor with bleach and discovered that the reason asked me to clean the room was because somebody had spilled chemicals in the back corner. I didn't know this until I saw the foaming reaction and was backing out of the room with black spots in my eyes and a burning sensation in my sinuses. I already had the fan turned on and I slammed the door shut and got OUT of there.

The third occasion I was properly disposing of some pool chemicals (I'd long ago learned procedure for getting rid of dangerous substances) when my dumbass sister decided to help me and poured some OTHER crap in there, mixing the two. I literally threw her out of the way and hit the spot with as much water as I could before hauling ass myself.

To this day I still have almost no sense of smell and mild breathing issues.

Long story short, don't fuck with chemicals.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:14:52 PM EDT
Whatever you do, don't set your Coke on top of a barrel of HTH pool chemical and let it spill over!
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:17:59 PM EDT
it cleans golf balls pretty well
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:18:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ktrout01:
Not even close to Mustard Gas ... the gas produced is chlorine gas and it'll kill ya just the same. Now if you can heat it through a burner of some type, you'll get Phosgene gas, THAT's a real kisk ass one for sure. Have a mask handy if you want to play around.



How?

Phosgene is carbonyl chloride. COCl. Sure, there is oxygen and chlorine in sodium hypochlorite (NaOCl) but no carbon.

Phosgene is really bad because it forms carbon monoxide and hydrochloric acid in the lungs. If the CO don't kill you, secondary drowning as the body tries to dilute the HCl in the lungs will definitely kill you.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:22:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
You can generate phosgene by burning teflon.



No, you cannot. Teflon is polytetrafluoroethylene. Buring it can liberate HF which is WORSE than COCl because it binds calcium, shutting the nervous system down. Terrible poison. But fortunately, it produces VERY little HF.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:27:07 PM EDT
You are correct. My mistake. It is PVC I was thinking of.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:31:58 PM EDT
Pine Oil and Clorax Bleech can have a similar effect. Solid Cholrine(HTH) plus Pine Oil means gas and fire. Fun stuff when you are bored working at pools.

John
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:34:56 PM EDT
So, what if you drink bleach and ammonia? Will you make chlorine gas in your stomach?


Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:35:01 PM EDT
Speaking of phosgene. All you need to do is head Freon to make that. That's why you're not suposed to smoke while working on AC units. (I suspect the risk is minimal though).

Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:38:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasEd:
Speaking of phosgene. All you need to do is head Freon to make that. That's why you're not suposed to smoke while working on AC units. (I suspect the risk is minimal though).




R22 will do it. R134a will not.

Dichloromethane, a solvent, will burn and make it too.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:41:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 5:42:02 PM EDT by Vinnie]
Mixing Ammonia and bleach create chlorine gas

2(parts)NaOCl + 2NH3 --> 2NaONH3 + Cl2.

Mustard gas or Sulfur mustard is different

Also note that mixing more ammonia to bleach can be explosive (literally).
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:46:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
You can generate phosgene by burning teflon.



No, you cannot. Teflon is polytetrafluoroethylene. Buring it can liberate HF which is WORSE than COCl because it binds calcium, shutting the nervous system down. Terrible poison. But fortunately, it produces VERY little HF.



What is HF?

Tagged for fun recipes.

BTW, don't mix Dawn dishwashing liquid and bleach as a cleaner. BAAAAAD stuff.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:49:35 PM EDT
Chlorine gas incenerated by natural gas will indeed make small amounts of phosgene, enough to kill.

Incidently, I make and use phosgene, COCl2, on a regular basis, and I used it daily when in grad school.
Phosgene in the solvent DMSO (typical use) readily absorbs through the skin, very scary.
When we use phosgene, we make sure to be in constant company for the next several days. There are stories (unsubstantiated by me) of grad students and chinese chemists in solid phase peptide chemistry doing phosgene couplings on Friday only to not show up to work on Monday...
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:49:37 PM EDT
As other's have said, it has to be Clorox, or chlorine bleach PLUS ammonia to be mustard gas.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:52:53 PM EDT
If you ever deal with a swimming pool that has an automatic chlorinator, make damn sure you turn the pump on before you open the lid............my brother forgot to turn it on, and when I went to add some more, damn stuff nearly took my head off...........nausea and vomiting is not fun
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:54:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Daytona955i:
As other's have said, it has to be Clorox, or chlorine bleach PLUS ammonia to be mustard gas.



Nope, not mustard gas, but poisonous nothing the less.

Mustard gas includes a variety of compounds comprising the nitrogen mustards. Mechlorethamine is the quintessential mitrogen mustard as it was used in WWI chemical warfare, and it was also one of the first successful chemotherapeutical agents for treatment of cancer.

As a therapeutic category, the nitrogen mustards are categorized as anti-tumor alkylating agents.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:58:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 6:30:54 PM EDT by Gregory_A]
Say if you mix mustard seed,bleach,ammonia and chlorine with Alka Seltzer tablets,would that be a good looter-be-gone mixture ?
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:13:04 PM EDT
Why is mustard gas called such, when it's not made from mustard?
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:15:25 PM EDT
freon + open flame = phosgene gas, which is the same as mustard gas
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:23:09 PM EDT
Is the risk the same if someone puts a cup of vinegar into their dishwasher when using powdered dishwasher detergent?
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:26:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 6:27:20 PM EDT by Lockedon]
When I was a kid, I've heard that clorine blocks (such as the ones you toss in swimming pools) catch on fire when you pour bleach on them.

Any truth to this? What's going on here?
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:34:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lockedon:
When I was a kid, I've heard that clorine blocks (such as the ones you toss in swimming pools) catch on fire when you pour bleach on them.

Any truth to this? What's going on here?



don't know about bleach, but watch out for DOT brake fluid.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:35:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By soowah:

Originally Posted By Lockedon:
When I was a kid, I've heard that clorine blocks (such as the ones you toss in swimming pools) catch on fire when you pour bleach on them.

Any truth to this? What's going on here?



don't know about bleach, but watch out for DOT brake fluid.




oh yeah, maybe that's what it was...it's been long since i've heard that, but this thread reminded me.

So what's the story on that? What goes on chemically? (I don't mean to hijack)
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:36:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FredM:
Bleach + Ammonia = Chlorine gas



+1
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:36:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 6:37:44 PM EDT by Gregory_A]
This thread gave me an idea,but I need a couple of things first.Maybe the hive can help me out,these are the ingredients I am lacking:

1) Plutonium

2) Nuclear scientist

3) A pilot

4) Lear jet capable of mid air refueling

5) A C130 fuel tanker capable of refueling a lear jet

6) Air map to Mecca

I have everything else.
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