Lawyers for Jewish Defense League figures say 'hysteria' influenced alleged bomb plot charges
 
 


LOS ANGELES, January 11 -    Lawyers for two Jewish Defense League figures indicted in an alleged plot to blow up a mosque and an Arab-American congressman's office say their clients are being persecuted in "a climate of hysteria" following the Sept. 11 attacks.

 

A 24-page federal grand jury indictment returned Thursday alleges that JDL chairman Irv Rubin, 56, and JDL member Earl Krugel, 59, recruited another person to plant the bombs. That person went to the FBI, authorities have said.

Rubin and Krugel were arrested Dec. 11 and are being held without bail, pending a Jan. 22 arraignment. The charges carry maximum penalties of at least two life terms in prison for each defendant.

"The government has blown this completely out of proportion and is acting in a climate of hysteria," said Mark Werksman, Krugel's attorney. "Mr. Krugel denies that he ever planned to blow anything up. This was all talk initiated by and propelled by an informant."

The alleged targets were King Fahd Mosque in Culver City, Calif., and the field office of Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif.

Authorities have tape recordings of conversations made by the unidentified FBI informant, who allegedly attended about a dozen meetings at which bombings were discussed. They also say they seized bomb components, gunpowder and a machine gun from the garage of Krugel's home.

At first there was talk of bombing the Muslim Public Affairs Council in Los Angeles, the indictment said, but Rubin changed his mind and ordered the new targets. The indictment said Rubin instructed the informant to purchase gunpowder, which was then stored in Krugel's garage along with other bomb components.

Peter Morris, who represents Rubin, criticized language in the indictment that says the defendants conspired to "use a weapon of mass destruction."

"This is a political case in which the government is trying to raise this to the level of the actions of Sept. 11, which is outrageous," Morris said.

The indictment includes a list of charges, including conspiracy, conspiracy to use a destructive device, attempted arson, weapons possession and others.

Rubin, who has been chairman of the JDL since 1985, has made a career out of confrontation, challenging white supremacists to fist fights and burning a Confederate flag outside a courthouse. By his own count he has been arrested more than 40 times. In 1980, he was tried and acquitted of soliciting the murders of Nazis in the United States.

The JDL was founded by Meir Kahane in 1968 to mount an armed response to anti-Semitic acts in New York.

 





 

Maybe it's just me, but I see a disturbing trend here. MAUSER88, the lion's share of your new topics posted seem to be negative portrayals of blacks and Jews. Is this just my perception, or is it a fact?

To what does your screenname refer? I thought the Mauser rifle was the 98k, not the 88. The only 88 I know of, unless you're a big Eric Lindros fan, is the Nazi skinhead slang. H is the 8th letter of the alphabet, and HH stands for "Heil Hitler," just like in area88's screenname, only he was just a bit more obvious, posting a link to the National Alliance website in one of his first posts on the board.

If I've got you wrong, say so, and I'll apologize. I'm just calling it as I see it.

Mister _____88 is a well known [:K], whose favorite topic is anything about the wrongdoings of non-whites. He switches handles every now and then, but keeps the 88. He posts articles, and then makes brief comments along the lines of "see? see what they do?".

I'd like to hear what the man has to say for himself, not from some article or website.

You're right.  I suspect he doesn't hany any ideas of his own, and is capable only of regurgitating the paranoid rantings of others...

I picked my screen name many years ago. It was based on my collecting the original Mauser Patent rifle of 1888. I didn't realize the "88" double meaning part till a year or so later but kept my original name since getting on to the net. Do I read National Alliance literature, yes I do but a read lots of "non -PC" newspapers, books and literature. My posts are about subjects that many people are very uncomfortable speaking about, namley race.
I don't make up the articles I post, I just report them. If you am uncomfortable reading them please do yourself a favor and don't.

A Nazi skinhead record label: [url]www.88music.com[/url]

From [url]www.newcomm.org/bdi/Backgrounders/Hammerskin[/url]:
On May 30, 1995 Michael Boyd, a Confederate Hammerskin shot and permanently paralyzed a black motorist outside of Dallas, Texas after shouting racial slurs at the victim as he drove home from the Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport. On September 13, 1996 Boyd was sentenced to life in prison, after being convicted of a second-degree felony charge of racially motivated aggravated assault. In 1991, Boyd, who has the slogan "Skinhead 88" tattooed on the inside of his lower lip, and a number of other white power skinheads broke up a party where black guests were mingling with whites. Guests were beaten with homemade weapons fashioned from baseball bats and table legs. Boyd was placed on probation for three counts of aggravated assault for that incident.

A website of the Methodist Church: [url]gbgm-umc.org/umw/anti-hate/symbolsofhate.html[/url]
[i]"88 is the symbol that represents 'Heil Hitler.'  H is the eighth letter in the alphabet, hence 'HH' or 88."[/i]

Sorry to disappoint you Spearweasel, but I have never CHANGED my name since getting on the net in 1996, nor have I used any other "handle".

As you say.

You didn't realize it at the time, but found it a happy coincidence when you figured it out? Is that what you're saying?



Can you provide any other links to "non-pc" references?



No one here is too squeamish to talk about race, but you beat that drum hard and constantly, as though it was the only topic of interest to you.



And just like the media in this country, you reveal your agenda by the selection of topics you constantly pound on.



I'm not uncomfortable at all. I'm just glad I wasn't wrong, and that I've got you pegged.

I'm married to a Mexican woman. If you'd like to get together the next time you're in Texas to talk about race, let me know. My email is in all my posts.

No, you probably just use alternate handles.

Is it too late to bring Dale Jarrett into this discussion? [:D]

[img]http://www.nascarcollectables.com/winston/winstonimages/Action/2000%20Quality%20Care%2088.jpg[/img]

This is a good thread.[:)]

Please don't anyone accuse him of being an anti-semite.
That's mean.
Nazis have feeling too, you know.

The part that amuses me about Nazi-wannabes is their insistence on backing a loser.  Last time I checked, the Nazis [b]LOST[/b] WWII.  In the ruins of Berlin, they were scrambling to find American units to surrender to, as they were askeert of what the Russians were going to do to them.  The Fuhrer stuck a pistol in his mouth.  The other rat bastards killed themselves or were executed at Nuremburg.  The whole glorious Thousand Year Reich lasted only a few years, destroyed a great European nation (Germany) set the world on edge for decades afterward, and its very name is a byword for infamy.  Even the things the Nazis are "praised" for e.g. military prowess and efficiency were either untrue (Germany never effectively got their economy on a war-time footing) or not their doing (German military prowess pre-dated the Nazis).  Admiring that pack of maggots means admiring all that drags civilization back into the mud.  Skinheads and other Naziwannabes are nothing but punk-ass bitches all caught up in wet-dreams of Aryan bullshytte.

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Ladies and gentlemen, MAUSER88 has left the building.

Or pehaps someone flushed!

The last refuge of the philosophically bankrupt:

"Run away! Run away!"

You guy's are a scream!!! HaHaHa

You're the only one laughing, gutless.

Maggot88,
They lost.  We won.  The Fuhrer ended up with his evil brain splattered on the wall.  The hilarity of it...

Don't make me use this!

[img]http://www.dynaserve.com/timebomb/images/tmebomb2.jpg[/img]

[:)]

holy shite!
i just went to peruse the "national alliance" just because i've never heard of it.  heres are a few of the members of this "non-PC" (as mauser88 says) organization and what they have to say about it:

[img]http://www.natvan.com/who-is/Brandi.jpg [/img]
Mrs. Brandi Hesse
Housewife and mother, Hope, MI
I joined the National Alliance because I want my children to grow up in a clean, healthy, White world, where they won't be a minority. I want them to go to White schools and live in a White community. I want them to learn White values, not TV values.
[img]http://www.natvan.com/who-is/Bob.jpg[/img]
Dr. Robert DeMarais
Former professor of business, Arkansas Technical University, Russellville, AR
I'm in the National Alliance because I'm sick of what's being done to our schools and our young people. I want an America where young men and women can learn and live in a White environment.

and thats just the begenning, read this trash:

The Law of Inequality
"Our world is hierarchical. Each of us is a member of the Aryan (or European) race, which, like the other races, developed its special characteristics over many thousands of years during which natural selection not only adapted it to its environment but also advanced it along its evolutionary path. Those races which evolved in the more demanding environment of the North, where surviving a winter required planning and self-discipline, advanced more rapidly in the development of the higher mental faculties -- including the abilities to conceptualize, to solve problems, to plan for the future, and to postpone gratification -- than those which remained in the relatively unvarying climate of the tropics. Consequently, the races vary today in their capabilities to build and to sustain a civilized society and, more generally, in their abilities to lend a conscious hand to Nature in the task of evolution."

"We must have no non-Whites in our living space, and we must have open space around us for expansion."

"We will do whatever is necessary to achieve this White living space and to keep it White."

"In specific terms, this means a society in which young men and women gather to revel with polkas or waltzes, reels or jigs, or any other White dances, but never to undulate or jerk to negroid jazz or rock rhythms. It means pop music without Barry Manilow and art galleries without Marc Chagall. It means films in which the appearance of any non-White face on the screen is a sure sign that what's being shown is either archival newsreel footage or a historical drama about the bad, old days."

this is not a harmless "non-PC" rag, it is racism at its finest.  i will be the first to decry "political correctness"
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=86132[/url]
but i will be damned if i allow racists to use this forum as a springboard for their ideology.  i [b]REFUSE[/b] to believe any of what these groups offer as inherent truths.  i am white, but think myself no more superior than anyone else (of any race).  trust me, i do not believe in this blindly, but have found this out through experience.  I have been witness to superiority in sports, the classroom, the arts, debate, and life in general by those that are not at all like me.  i relish this, because i recognize that [b]I AM NOT ANY BETTER THAN ANY ONE PERSON[/b].  i only think i am in my fleeting moments of success.

WE ARE EVERYWHERE!!!

Get in the debate or go masturbate to your polkas wearing your Hermann Goering commemorative edition feather boa.

I really find this part amusing



What a bunch of idiots......

You wish!

You're just a small group of impotent little people, ignorant and afraid of the responsibility required to actually live in the real world.

Pathetic.

What I love is that these defectives just sort of gloss over the fact that they'd have been some of the first on the boxcars back in "the good old days" in Berlin, circa 1942.

who the fuck are you talking about?
nutless racists?
i hope you all hang by your white shoelaces

Keep it coming Jarhead, I find it very amusing!Yes, very amusing.

exactly.
these people would look at me and try to recruit me because im blonde haired and blue eyed. my grandparents were poles ans jews avioding extermination... if these idiots only knew that their rasist idealism not blacks are religion is the "opiate of the masses"

elaborate... what is so amusing about what? answer my question...
[b]WHO OR WHAT IS EVERYWHERE?[/b]
hell just because there are racists everywhere, does that mean they are right? good?
hmmm... there are Jews everywhere...
blacks...tans...yellows (by the billions)...
are they more right in what they think?
theres a whole lot more of them...

Ok, Dr. Evil.

"Keep it coming Jarhead, I find it very amusing!Yes, very amusing! Soon, you will all feel the power of my Melanin-Destroying Aryan Death Beam! MuhahahhAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA..."

should i start with all the "non" aryan people that i like...(im having a hard time thinking because i never think of them as different "kinds" of people"

[img]http://steviewonder.free.fr/photos/big/natural05.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.media.uio.no/studentene/ragnhild.paalsrud/woody/gammel.gif[/img]

[img]http://cache.eonline.com/Gossip/Fashion/Images2002/berry.010802.jpg[/img]

[img]http://cache.eonline.com/Gossip/Fashion/Images2002/kravitz.010802.jpg[/img]

Step up to the plate if you've got anything. Otherwise, please slink back into the evolutionary cul-de-sac your ideas came from.

Cool story: My great grandfather emigrated here from Germany in the 30's with his family. Upon the outbreak of WWII his son, my grandfather, lied about his age and enlisted in the Army Air Corps at age 16. A year later he was a tailgunner on a B-26 flying out of England, punching big holes in Messerschmitts and Focke-Wulfes with a coaxial .50 cal as his crew dropped high explosive by the five-hundred-weight on Nazi bitches below.

Mouser88:

[img]http://www.austinpowers.com/EVIL/gallery/img/mini1.jpg[/img]

Only one question... really is the JDL a creature of that j*rk of Rabbi Kahane?

Can anyone confirm this?

I can't believe...

Speaking of disturbing trends, it looks like Mr. Jarhead has started one, and several have chosen to jump on a bandwagon that's rather bigoted in itself.

There has been no "discussion" of the article he posted, only attacks on him, which have, predictably, gotten to the personal condemnation level.

Let's see, by this thread, if someone READS "National Alliance" material, that automatically, and without question, make them a Nazi skinhead hater of all Jewish people.  What a bunch of bull.

Oh, shit. I just challenged some of your orthodoxy. You gonna call me a Nazi, too?

Looking at the material "colinjay" posted, my impression is that these particular people are wrong and have gotten the unfortunate idea that they have to become isolated or at least to avoid a lot of the mainstream influence.  We saw this with Koresh.  So is the answer to burn them out, to attack their right to believe the way they do?  I think not.

It sounds like some of you have the idea that a "good thread" is where you can be judgemental, speculative, read someone else's mind, condemn them, and wallow in your misdirected sense that you are being righteous in the eye of God.  He may have something to say to you about this, but can you hear it with your ears (and other parts)so closed?



So what about the article?  

Yes, Paolo, it's true.  He founded the Kach party (spelling?).  Irv Rubin is a loon, and the JDL has about six members.  Every group has their extremists, I guess.

prk:

This has been posted before and discussed then:

[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=77795[/url]
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=77800[/url]

If you don't like the way a thread is progressing, by all means step in and state whatever you'd like to to get it back on track. Nowhere have I claimed to be able to read anyone's mind.

prk,

First, the article is old news.

Second, the JDL are nuts, and just a few nuts at that.

Third, Neo-nazis and Nazi sympathizers deserve to be shot on sight, metaphorically speaking.  If they want to skitter out from under the fridge, they deserve to get stepped on, IMO.

Fourth, Jarhead picked up on bullshit, called it bullshit, and Mouser88 admitted to it.  We *should* police our own, don't you think?

Fifth, well, that's all that comes up so far...

Carry on.

I am not antisemite, and you know it, Scott.
But really, with people like that, the difference between Mauser88 and Meir Kahane is thin and fragile...

If it's true that those JDL member have plotted to make terror attack on whoever, they should be put in jail and the keys throwed away...

I REFUSE to allow this forum to be used as a springboard for RACISTS to promote their views...BLAHBLAHBLAH... I would never have clicked on this topic if it hadn't turned into a 2 page diatribe on POLITICAL CORRECTNESS."SEE HOW TOLERANT I AM..." This is the USA guys, and if someone wants to spend his evenings in the basement dressed up like the toothfairy, it's his RIGHT. We are NOT the Taliban. If you didn't like his post don't READ it and DON'T RESPOND TO IT!

Ed, I don't claim to represent anyone but myself. If, upon further review of the entire thread, you think I'm outta line here, call it and I'll fold my tent.

I know how you think, Paolo, and I'm there with you. I really think Rubin is going to do some jail time for this stupidity, and he should.  And yes, hate is hate, regardless of where it comes from.  

Shalom!

I've never claimed to be a very tolerant guy, but I call 'em as I see 'em. Mauser88 could have ignored me and this most likely would have died a quiet death.



Maybe you should consider taking your own advice.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for the good men to do nothing."
- Edmund Burke


We HAVE to police our own.  Jarhead ID'ed it, we fired on it.  It's our responsibility.  Where do YOU draw the line?

That's one of my favorite quotes, DScott.
Thanks.