Remind me again. What political party does the current President represent? And what are their views on the limits of government versus the citizens?


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/15/the_skinny/main3168959.shtml

American Spy Satellites To Snoop On U.S.
The Skinny: Department Of Homeland Security OKs Expanded Domestic Use Of Spies In The Sky


The Wall Street Journal reports that the Department of Homeland Security has approved a measure to allow federal civilian agencies and law enforcement to turn American spy satellites on their own citizens for the first time.

Until now, the highly sensitive satellites were aimed mostly at other countries, usually ones we didn't really trust. Occasionally, geologists and NASA scientists got to use them to make things like topographical maps. Letting domestic security folks use them to spy is, the Journal says, "uncharted territory."

Officials have been mulling the plan for a couple years, but often bumped up against questions about whether this kind of snooping would violate the Posse Comitatus Act, which bars military for engaging in law-enforcement activity within the U.S., since the satellites are built for and owned by the Defense Department.

The decision was made three months ago by Director of National Intelligence Michael McConnel, and OKed in May by DHS chief Michael Chertoff.

Access to the satellite will be controlled by a new Homeland Security branch, the National Applications Office. As Charles Allen, the DHS's chief intelligence officer who will head up the new program, summed up cryptically, "It is an idea whose time has come."

Naturally, privacy groups are freaking out. Sentences like this one probably don't help. "The full capabilities of these systems are unknown outside the intelligence community, because they are among the most closely held secrets in government."

One privacy advocate complained that it was this secrecy that was the real problem.

"You are talking about enormous power," said Gregory Nojeim, senior counsel and director of the Project on Freedom, Security and Technology for the Center for Democracy and Technology, a nonprofit group advocating privacy rights in the digital age. "Not only is the surveillance they are contemplating intrusive and omnipresent, it's also invisible. And that's what makes this so dangerous."

LOL its comming all together nicely!

Quoted: LOL its comming all together nicely!

Don't worry, I am sure there will be "adequate controls" to protect against abuses.

Quoted: LOL its comming all together nicely!

Yes it is. *Evil laugh*

No more runnin' around nekkid in the yard. Damn.

If you have nothing to hide....

in before this thread disappears
as well as the OP

in before you know who A.

Quoted: So is this because of our failed immigration policy? i.e.  We cannot control our borders, therefore we not have to track the terrorists from the ROP in our borders

Yeah.

I'm sure that's it.

George Orwell....you prophetic bastard.

Chertoff is a fucking fuck.

Quoted: in before this thread disappears as well as the OP

Am I missing something, why would he disappear?

Maybe we can pool our money, and buy an Anti-Satellite Missile from the Chinese!!

Quoted: Quoted: in before this thread disappears as well as the OP Am I missing something, why would he disappear?

...before the thought police get him, duh

This is getting out of hand. I wonder how George Washington would have felt about this.

They'll spot my weed farm, oh teh noes!!!!

Quoted: Maybe we can pool our money, and buy an Anti-Satellite Missile from the Chinese!!

they have those at Walmart?

INTJBTA

Quoted: This is getting out of hand. I wonder how George Washington would have felt about this.

He would have been like, "wow, dude...so like, it is a camera in space? Right on!"......then he would have said something inspiring about how our freedoms are fleeting or something inspiring about beer.

I really hate innocuous sounding names for agencies that wield secretive power. I mean come on can't we just call it the We're Watching You Department, or the We're Not Even Going To Try and Hide What We're Doing Department?



96Ag

Quoted: ... government versus the citizens...

THAT is the world-view of those in the corridors of power.

As long as you know that... nothing either party does should surprise you.

wolfman, they're looking for your weed.

"You are talking about enormous power," said Gregory Nojeim,

also ACLU Associate Director

Screw him and the ACLU

Posse Comitatus? Are these DoD assets?

Good.  Now I can go into the backyard and lay out a 100 yard long message to the Federal government.

Suggestions?

BUILD A FENCE

NO DONUTS ON PREMISES

YOU SHOULD FEAR ME

THIS IS A COMMUNIST PLOT (a lefty teacher I had years ago had that one on her lawn.  Always made me laugh).

DO THESE PANTS MAKE ME LOOK FAT?

Girl I dated in college has Top Secret clearance at Ratheon.

She can't tell me what she does, only to say it has to do with "communications",
hinted at satelites, and added "you wouldn't believe me even if I could tell you".

Quoted: This is getting out of hand. I wonder how George Washington would have felt about this.

I think ole George would have been fookin amazed at how we got the fookin satelites up there in the first place

Oh, he would have been pissed off that his hemp farm was illegal too.  


ETA- I am listening to "Electric Eye" by Priest in view of this thread

Listen to the words, you will soon be living that as a reality

Thank goodness the gubmint is now going to protect me, fo realz.

I don't know how we got by in the past without this police state.

If a satelite is in a polar or molyina orbit it will cover every point in the earth anyways, nothing new here.

Good.

I hope they use up all the fuel on those birds retasking them for petty investigations. Then, when we'll need them most, we'll be boned.

We have the government that we deserve...

Quoted: ETA- I am listening to "Electric Eye" by Priest in view of this thread. Listen to the words, you will soon be living that as a reality

That is a great song!!!  When it comes to a vision of the future, another song is "Red Red Barchetta" by RUSH.

It is interesting that many of the "big brother" fears are materializing before our very eyes and Americans are swallowing all of it. There is no way in hell that an American citizen would have allowed the government to install surveillance cameras on street corners in the 40s, 50s, 60s... but today.... under the guise of catching criminals or terrorists, almost everybody is willing to tolerate the invasion of privacy.

It is bad to live in a society where terrorism and other crimes can occur.


It would be absolutely intolerable to me to live in a society where terrorism and other crimes CAN"T occur.

Quoted: Posse Comitatus? Are these DoD assets?

Yep.  Operated by the National Reconnaissance Office, part of the DoD.

Alright - Dave_A, RikWriter, Max_Mike, and the other administration/government apologists... please, tell me everything is going to be OK.

Quoted: Alright - Dave_A, RikWriter, Max_Mike, and the other administration/government apologists... please, tell me everything is going to be OK.

If you have nothing to hide and are not breaking any laws and will submit your next born child, you'll be ok, otherwise,
you are a terrorist

What ever did we do back when the government couldent listen or watch us?

Maybe they can now focus on the Shuttle's foam problem.  

Quoted: Alright - Dave_A, RikWriter, Max_Mike, and the other administration/government apologists... please, tell me everything is going to be OK.

Well if you can point out how this is different from law enforcement flying over in aircraft with high resolution cameras which they have been doing for decades I will gladly join you hysterically running around pulling my hair screaming “da coming to get me”.

As for me I really don't see any need to apologize for something law enforcement has been doing since about ten min. after the Wright brothers made their first flight… not being a bed wetter that is.

Now back to the regular scheduled program… Chicken Little versus the big bad satellite.

See, everybody does need a rifle capable of shooting down satellites in orbit!

just need to adapt one of these to a gimbal tracking system

www.c-h-a-o-s.com/2007/08/11/sniping-the-security/

Quoted: Quoted: Alright - Dave_A, RikWriter, Max_Mike, and the other administration/government apologists... please, tell me everything is going to be OK. Well if you can point out how this is different from law enforcement flying over in aircraft with high resolution cameras which they have been doing for decades I will gladly join you hysterically running around pulling my hair screaming “da coming to get me”.

You need to read up on what these things can do.  Well, what they are publicly acknowledged to be able to do.  More than just imaging, which is probably of much higher quality than police helos, has a much longer time on target than those helos, and has a much wider reach and field of view than those helos.

We have spy satellites that can do radar imaging, meaning the roof over your house isn't much of a barrier.  SIGINT birds can sniff out cell phone calls and other electronic signals.  And thats what I can come up with off the top of my head.  I'm sure the actual details of what these birds can do is much more impressive than what I, you, or the article writer knows.  He never says this is just imaging birds being used.

And theres that whole posse comitus problem, which the administration decided to, well, not give a shit about.

too bad all this "security" bullshit doesn't sunset when the next demoncrap president takes office.

It would be funny to see her/him explain why they want to set it all back up, after they have been bitching and ragging about it for the last 8 years.

(By the way, I don't like any of this by either party.)

Quoted: It is bad to live in a society where terrorism and other crimes can occur. It would be absolutely intolerable to me to live in a society where terrorism and other crimes CAN"T occur.

DING! DING! DING!  Winnah!

This is old news to me

Quoted: Remind me again. What political party does the current President represent? And what are their views on the limits of government versus the citizens? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/15/the_skinny/main3168959.shtml American Spy Satellites To Snoop On U.S. The Skinny: Department Of Homeland Security OKs Expanded Domestic Use Of Spies In The Sky The Wall Street Journal reports that the Department of Homeland Security has approved a measure to allow federal civilian agencies and law enforcement to turn American spy satellites on their own citizens for the first time. Until now, the highly sensitive satellites were aimed mostly at other countries, usually ones we didn't really trust. Occasionally, geologists and NASA scientists got to use them to make things like topographical maps. Letting domestic security folks use them to spy is, the Journal says, "uncharted territory." Officials have been mulling the plan for a couple years, but often bumped up against questions about whether this kind of snooping would violate the Posse Comitatus Act, which bars military for engaging in law-enforcement activity within the U.S., since the satellites are built for and owned by the Defense Department. The decision was made three months ago by Director of National Intelligence Michael McConnel, and OKed in May by DHS chief Michael Chertoff. Access to the satellite will be controlled by a new Homeland Security branch, the National Applications Office. As Charles Allen, the DHS's chief intelligence officer who will head up the new program, summed up cryptically, "It is an idea whose time has come." Naturally, privacy groups are freaking out. Sentences like this one probably don't help. "The full capabilities of these systems are unknown outside the intelligence community, because they are among the most closely held secrets in government." One privacy advocate complained that it was this secrecy that was the real problem. "You are talking about enormous power," said Gregory Nojeim, senior counsel and director of the Project on Freedom, Security and Technology for the Center for Democracy and Technology, a nonprofit group advocating privacy rights in the digital age. "Not only is the surveillance they are contemplating intrusive and omnipresent, it's also invisible. And that's what makes this so dangerous."

That is a fucking LIE!  Corona birds were taking pix of the USA 40+ years ago.  (You can look it up...but apparently, the morons at CBS are too stupid or lazy.)

How in hell do the libtards think we calibrate those things!  It ain't the first time...and it won't be the last.  The question should be, "...what are they DOING with the imagery and other "data" they get from satellites?"

Quoted: If a satelite is in a polar or molyina orbit it will cover every point in the earth anyways, nothing new here.

Well no shit!  Someone finally reveals the fucking obvious!  Well Done, Sir!

ETA:  Guyz...I once looked up my old home, using images taken in 1964.

Yer tinfoil is on way too tight.

Quoted: Maybe we can pool our money, and buy an Anti-Satellite Missile from the Chinese!!

how much does a .50 rd cost?   why the group buy..  ?

or are we all that bad a shot that we will all fire at once and HOPE someone hits hit ?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Alright - Dave_A, RikWriter, Max_Mike, and the other administration/government apologists... please, tell me everything is going to be OK. Well if you can point out how this is different from law enforcement flying over in aircraft with high resolution cameras which they have been doing for decades I will gladly join you hysterically running around pulling my hair screaming “da coming to get me”. You need to read up on what these things can do.  Well, what they are publicly acknowledged to be able to do.  More than just imaging, which is probably of much higher quality than police helos, has a much longer time on target than those helos, and has a much wider reach and field of view than those helos. We have spy satellites that can do radar imaging, meaning the roof over your house isn't much of a barrier.  SIGINT birds can sniff out cell phone calls and other electronic signals.  And thats what I can come up with off the top of my head.  I'm sure the actual details of what these birds can do is much more impressive than what I, you, or the article writer knows.  He never says this is just imaging birds being used. And theres that whole posse comitus problem, which the administration decided to, well, not give a shit about.

Yep you convinced me.

These birds which we are short on to begin with are going to drop their primary mission of foreign surveillance so they can randomly snoop on 150 MILLION domestic houses.

“da coming to get me”

Now back to the regular scheduled program… Chicken Little builds a Faraday cage around his tin foil house.

The recce satellites are in ~1 hour polar orbits. The sensors aren't turned off when they pass over the US because hourly ON-OFF power cycles would kill the equipment. It's been this way for decades, and suddenly it's big news?

Quoted: Quoted: If a satelite is in a polar or molyina orbit it will cover every point in the earth anyways, nothing new here. Well no shit!  Someone finally reveals the fucking obvious!  Well Done, Sir! ETA:  Guyz...I once looked up my old home, using images taken in 1964. Yer tinfoil is on way too tight.

Were those photos the result of a request from a government agency for satellite reconnaissance as part of an investigation?  Was that a result of the DoD participating in domestic police work?  Whats the resolution of those photos?  What about the other types of satellites in our arsenal?