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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/15/2005 7:30:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 7:31:31 PM EDT by Rebel_Marine]
Is there anyone out there who can interpret American Indian omens?

This appears to be the "christian corner" which is unfortunate. I think a religion forum is actually a great idea. I understand why some complain but I suspect it will get plenty of action. Most people have spiritual beliefs, often they are unable to reconcile those feelings with modern society and life, and maintain the appropriate facade for the social situation they are in.

Anyhow, I am of judeo-christian upbringing, but had something extraordinary happen to me recently that seems to defy the odds, at least IMO, FWTW.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:32:20 PM EDT
so what's the omen?

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:12:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rebel_Marine:
Is there anyone out there who can interpret American Indian omens?

This appears to be the "christian corner" which is unfortunate. I think a religion forum is actually a great idea. I understand why some complain but I suspect it will get plenty of action. Most people have spiritual beliefs, often they are unable to reconcile those feelings with modern society and life, and maintain the appropriate facade for the social situation they are in.

Anyhow, I am of judeo-christian upbringing, but had something extraordinary happen to me recently that seems to defy the odds, at least IMO, FWTW.



Christian corner? Unfortunate? Why do you say that? Because most posters seem to be christian? Somethimes thats just how things work ot. Its not like its a conspiracy, I enjoy reading posts from differing religious viewpoints. People get defensive but I dont see any religion trying to stamp out another.

Sorry I cant interpret American Indian Omens but look forward to the responses from some who may be able to.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:26:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:


Christian corner?



Seems like that is sure the trend here, similar to the GD.


Unfortunate?


Take it in the proper context.
I am glad there are a lot of christians but I suspect that it might run off others. Like many other things, I am curious.

IOW, when I came here to voice my query and saw the threads posted, I had to really conclude that this might not be the place to ask my question.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:33:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rebel_Marine:

Originally Posted By WildBoar:


Christian corner?



Seems like that is sure the trend here, similar to the GD.


Unfortunate?


Take it in the proper context.
I am glad there are a lot of christians but I suspect that it might run off others. Like many other things, I am curious.

IOW, when I came here to voice my query and saw the threads posted, I had to really conclude that this might not be the place to ask my question.




It basically reflects the membership, or the ones who post about their religious inclinations. If thsi were in India I am sure it would seem like the Hindu corner or somethign like that. Its a reflection of demographics, thats all.

Someone here may get you the answer you want, One members even asked what onmen you were inquiring of. I would respond.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:33:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
so what's the omen?




I am an avid outdoorsman. More time in the woods than almost anyone I know.

I was attacked by a bear, prevailed in rather spectacular fashion and when I left the area(rapidly I might add) and drove out a Bald Eagle flew out over the hood of my car and just floated out in front of me like that for a couple of hundred yards. Almost surreal. I felt like the Eagle was doing me honor. Anyway I just wondered if anyone was into that sort of thing and could tell me if it was all supposed to mean something. Am going thru some major changes in my life right now.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:49:48 PM EDT
Ok, I just have to ask-------------- Is the Bear gonna be OK?---------
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:53:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CaptSchofield:
Ok, I just have to ask-------------- Is the Bear gonna be OK?---------



I'm here.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:57:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:00:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrsGloftoe:
Totem? Spirit guide?



Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:01:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 9:08:11 PM EDT by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By Rebel_Marine:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
so what's the omen?




I am an avid outdoorsman. More time in the woods than almost anyone I know.

I was attacked by a bear, prevailed in rather spectacular fashion and when I left the area(rapidly I might add) and drove out a Bald Eagle flew out over the hood of my car and just floated out in front of me like that for a couple of hundred yards. Almost surreal. I felt like the Eagle was doing me honor. Anyway I just wondered if anyone was into that sort of thing and could tell me if it was all supposed to mean something. Am going thru some major changes in my life right now.



I am no expert but an Indian friend in the Army mentioned something called an "ishtaginy" (SP?) or something like that in a similar experience. Think it was a curse though.

Remember there are many differing indian tribes so its meaning could mean a dozen things.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:46:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrsGloftoe:
Totem? Spirit guide?



Interesting info searching on bear and eagle totems and spirit guides.

www.linsdomain.com

Eagles are supposed to be messengers from heaven.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:57:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rebel_Marine:

Originally Posted By CaptSchofield:
Ok, I just have to ask-------------- Is the Bear gonna be OK?---------



I'm here.



That's good! I was just trying to be funny and get you to tell us about your encounter with the Bear. He was a nobel animal in his domain and you should honor him for his fight also by telling the story.
I think you were being honored by the Eagle for your fight. Thats just my .02cents worth, and no i have no ancestors that were Indians
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 3:32:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:12:59 AM EDT
I'm no Indian expert but I'm guessing an Indian would see the bald eagle as a sign from the Indian gods, a Christian would see the bald eagle as a sign from God, a Muslim would see it as a sign from Allah, etc.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 5:46:21 AM EDT
1. Thank God you didn't become bear food.
2. Thank God you didn't hit the eagle, the fine would have been unreal!
Some one up stairs likes you! Great spirit ,God, budda what ever.
Indian omen, couldn't tell you.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 6:07:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
I read the bear story the other day that you posted. From what I read, it seemed as if someone else was the person involved in the story.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=74322


So are you saying that the original story was yours, or that you had a bear incident after this one?

Or are you just making this whole thing up?


I'll tell you this right now, you better have a good explenation.



My story.
I asked Merrell to post it as I was leary of posting it under my own name initially.
I didn't describe the Eagle flight as I thought everyone would call me nuts.
It was one helluva experience. The entire episode.
I have named my MAK-90 Bearslayer.

IM sent.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 6:09:52 AM EDT
Here's the story, I typed it up shortly after I got home from the encounter:


Now I have had plenty of close encounters with predators up here, especially Black Bear. Today, I get out on remote walking trail and my dog runs down a hill to a creek to get some water. At least that's what I think. All of a sudden it is very quiet and then some ruckus( more than one animal). I can't see anything but all of a sudden I hear alot of scraping. I look at the direction it is coming from and there are 2 bear cubs climbing a tree. About a second later all Hell breaks loose. And the racket is moving up hill towards me. Aw shit, I am thinking as I clack the slector and bring my rifle up. They are both now visible coming up the hill right at the trail about 15m ahead of me. The Sow is about 6ft behind my dog who hits the trail and turns right for me. By now the Sow has turned and is coming right at me, only a foot or two behind my dog and swiping at her as she runs, snarling and snapping. Fucking thing is really pissed. Dog is right in front and is about 1/3 the height of the bear. 10m. Dog is a little on the left side of the bear and my first shot is just over her and into the right low chest. The sow drops about an inch and is recovering her stride as I am squeezing for the second shot and my dog crosses in front turning right to get around a bush. Bang! Second shot left upper chest as the bear is turning, with the angle of shot right at the vitals. Now turning more, she is almost turned in the front half and my 3rd shot is right behind the shoulder, again into the vitals. First 3 shots in under 1 second. Sow rolls onto her back, thrashes and then rolls forward onto her haunches, extends her neck out and takes one last roar. Bang, bang. Double tap to the neck. One in the vessels, second up into the Cspine.

If I had been unarmed I'd be digesting right now, no question at all in my mind. That bear was pissed and wasn't stopping for shit. I don't think even a handgun would have been sufficient at all. At the least my dog would be dead and I'd have been badly wounded.

Training paid off bigtime though. No panic, no hesitation, stayed cool. When it was obvious it was kill or be killed I did the job in fine fashion. Pissed at my dog though. The Sow only did what she had to from her perspective and I felt sick to my stomach with each squeeze of the trigger. Damn shame to kill something for nothing.

But we both survived

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 8:52:52 AM EDT
Rebel_Marine,

The bear story sounds like self defence as far as you were concerned. Darn shame the sow died, but sounds like you did what you had to.

As for the eagle...I don't know. Could've been a sign from heaven, maybe it wasn't.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 9:21:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:
Rebel_Marine,

The bear story sounds like self defence as far as you were concerned. Darn shame the sow died, but sounds like you did what you had to.

As for the eagle...I don't know. Could've been a sign from heaven, maybe it wasn't.



I thought it interesting and extraordinary. Wondered if there would be any significance attached through American Indian Lore.

I am not assuming a message from heaven. Seemed more of an animal thing. I have seen incredible things with all the time I spend in the forest and I am convinced they know when another animal has been killed anywhere in their area, an area far larger than can be expected based on their individual range and senses. For instance I have walked right up on a lot of bear, more deer than I could possibly remember, coyotes, even bobcat and wolf. Their senses are good but not that good.
The bear I killed was about 150 yds from where I parked and the Eagle came out of a tree right over my vehicle when I pulled out and then stayed right out over my hood. Wingspan was wider than my SUV. Justed floated out in front of me. Incredible sight.

But they know, of that I am just about certain.
They are also far more intelligent than your average person gives them credit for.

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:50:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rebel_Marine:

Originally Posted By Shane333:
Rebel_Marine,

The bear story sounds like self defence as far as you were concerned. Darn shame the sow died, but sounds like you did what you had to.

As for the eagle...I don't know. Could've been a sign from heaven, maybe it wasn't.



I thought it interesting and extraordinary. Wondered if there would be any significance attached through American Indian Lore.

I am not assuming a message from heaven. Seemed more of an animal thing. I have seen incredible things with all the time I spend in the forest and I am convinced they know when another animal has been killed anywhere in their area, an area far larger than can be expected based on their individual range and senses. For instance I have walked right up on a lot of bear, more deer than I could possibly remember, coyotes, even bobcat and wolf. Their senses are good but not that good.
The bear I killed was about 150 yds from where I parked and the Eagle came out of a tree right over my vehicle when I pulled out and then stayed right out over my hood. Wingspan was wider than my SUV. Justed floated out in front of me. Incredible sight.

But they know, of that I am just about certain.
They are also far more intelligent than your average person gives them credit for.




I believe you...except for the deer. In my experience deer are dumber than a bag of hammers.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:27:24 PM EDT
Rather than trying to take a preconceived "omen" from your encounter with the bear and eagle,
which could have many interpretations from many sources.

Ponder your experience and think of it often. It will reveal it's self to you one day when you need it.


GM

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 1:21:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rebel_Marine:
This appears to be the "christian corner" which is unfortunate.



It is?

Since when?

All are allowed to participate.

Christians just happen to be the largest faith here.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 1:23:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rebel_Marine:

Anyway I just wondered if anyone was into that sort of thing and could tell me if it was all supposed to mean something.



Sounds like you saw a bear and a bird/

Sgatr15
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 3:26:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Rebel_Marine:

Anyway I just wondered if anyone was into that sort of thing and could tell me if it was all supposed to mean something.



Sounds like you saw a bear and a bird/

Sgatr15





Probably all there is to it, I agree, other than that I would almost guarantee the Eagle knew the bear was dead. Their behavior changes when there is a kill in the area. Seen it too many times to ignore it.

I just wondered what native american spiritism would say about it. From what I have heard such things are given significance by them.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 3:27:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By goodmedicine:
Rather than trying to take a preconceived "omen" from your encounter with the bear and eagle,
which could have many interpretations from many sources.

Ponder your experience and think of it often. It will reveal it's self to you one day when you need it.


GM




I believe you are likely correct. Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 3:30:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:

Originally Posted By Rebel_Marine:

Originally Posted By Shane333:
Rebel_Marine,

The bear story sounds like self defence as far as you were concerned. Darn shame the sow died, but sounds like you did what you had to.

As for the eagle...I don't know. Could've been a sign from heaven, maybe it wasn't.



I thought it interesting and extraordinary. Wondered if there would be any significance attached through American Indian Lore.

I am not assuming a message from heaven. Seemed more of an animal thing. I have seen incredible things with all the time I spend in the forest and I am convinced they know when another animal has been killed anywhere in their area, an area far larger than can be expected based on their individual range and senses. For instance I have walked right up on a lot of bear, more deer than I could possibly remember, coyotes, even bobcat and wolf. Their senses are good but not that good.
The bear I killed was about 150 yds from where I parked and the Eagle came out of a tree right over my vehicle when I pulled out and then stayed right out over my hood. Wingspan was wider than my SUV. Justed floated out in front of me. Incredible sight.

But they know, of that I am just about certain.
They are also far more intelligent than your average person gives them credit for.




I believe you...except for the deer. In my experience deer are dumber than a bag of hammers.



You're used to mule deer. Whitetail are far more intelligent and are what reside in my neck of the woods.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 3:37:59 PM EDT
So why do you ask 2 Dogs Fornicating?
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 3:40:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:36:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 11:03:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 11:04:24 PM EDT by hound]
If I may step in here and Teach for a moment. That is the only word I know to describe this so hold on.
You went through a possibly life changing encounter, your entire self was shocked with the fact that you almost became bear food. You stood, head back, and faced this situation in the best way you could. Now go back to that moment. The ass-clenching realization that you just made through the last second. And that you were going to come out from that situation breathing and walking. Then nature or g*d or the winds let you see something that you will remember for the rest of your life. Take that memory and seperate it from the other. What would you be feeling if you just saw the eagle? Would not that have been enough to make your week?
Why does it have to be a sign? This part is difficult for me to put into words so bear with me...no pun intended. If you want a NA explanation, then you experienced beauty. The wind spoke to you and gave you life . There isn't a sign or a change...it just is. The concept I like best is "to walk in beauty". For that short time you walked in harmony with death and life and the wind. Whatever you do with it is up to you. In most of my reading there seems to be a far different attitude between European and OTHER belief systems. European seems to apply to the person, NA seems to apply to the world and life...it is not usually personal. It is more similar to Eastern stuff where things happen not because of who you are, but because of where you happen to be.
hound out
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:04:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hound:
If I may step in here and Teach for a moment. That is the only word I know to describe this so hold on.
You went through a possibly life changing encounter, your entire self was shocked with the fact that you almost became bear food. You stood, head back, and faced this situation in the best way you could. Now go back to that moment. The ass-clenching realization that you just made through the last second. And that you were going to come out from that situation breathing and walking. Then nature or g*d or the winds let you see something that you will remember for the rest of your life. Take that memory and seperate it from the other. What would you be feeling if you just saw the eagle? Would not that have been enough to make your week?



That's what struck me.
Either of these instances by themself was quite extraordinary. To have both within 5 minutes...


Why does it have to be a sign? This part is difficult for me to put into words so bear with me...no pun intended. If you want a NA explanation, then you experienced beauty. The wind spoke to you and gave you life . There isn't a sign or a change...it just is. The concept I like best is "to walk in beauty". For that short time you walked in harmony with death and life and the wind. Whatever you do with it is up to you. In most of my reading there seems to be a far different attitude between European and OTHER belief systems. European seems to apply to the person, NA seems to apply to the world and life...it is not usually personal. It is more similar to Eastern stuff where things happen not because of who you are, but because of where you happen to be.
hound out



Thanks for the words of wisdom.

My wife thought I lost it there for one day.
I came home and told her about the bear, then after the entire story just said I saw an Eagle also. When I told her the story this week, she just looked at me like, "uh-huh."
I was up on some scaffolding working on my house and turned suddenly, pointed at her and said, [spooky voice] "Evil will befall those who laugh at the omen of the bear and the eagle."[/spooky voice]



Hahahah, LMAO. You should have seen the look on her face. Jaw dropped, face went pale, and though she denies it I believe she was trying to decide whether she could outrun me to the door!


Oh well, it was all quite an experience and will give me something to tell the grandbrats. I actually have had some pretty interesting experiences between my time in the woods and my Marine Corps tour.
My wife is still miffed about the "Killer Bear from Kewaunee County" stories I used to tell my then yonger kids when we went camping.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 9:15:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rebel_Marine:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
so what's the omen?




I am an avid outdoorsman. More time in the woods than almost anyone I know.

I was attacked by a bear, prevailed in rather spectacular fashion and when I left the area(rapidly I might add) and drove out a Bald Eagle flew out over the hood of my car and just floated out in front of me like that for a couple of hundred yards. Almost surreal. I felt like the Eagle was doing me honor. Anyway I just wondered if anyone was into that sort of thing and could tell me if it was all supposed to mean something. Am going thru some major changes in my life right now.



Here is my opinion.

Several years ago the American Indian part of my family history "came to life" for me. I started doing research, learning whatever I could, and going to powwows.

I am a dedicated, committed, born-again Christian, and carefully avoid syncretism (blending other non-Christian beliefs with my Christianity). Also, American Indians don't have a monopoly on nature.

One quiet morning I was practicing with my bow. Suddenly, I heard a hawk cry overhead. I had seen hundreds of hawks over the years, but this was actually the first time I had heard one. I looked up and it was circling over me, very low. I could make out details in its feathers. I watched in awed silence, and I felt like I was in the presence of something much bigger than me.

After a minute it flew off. I stood there trying to understand what I felt.

A Shawnee friend (also a Christian) said it was a good sign. As I thought on it, I remembered that God communicated to Balaam through a donkey. There is no reason why our Creator cannot speak to us through His creation.

I'd say that the major changes you are going through will work out the way they are supposed to. My experience is that if I do my best to follow God and walk in obedience to Him (imperfect as it is), things work out like they should.

Note: Often not according to my plan or preference, but in accordance with His will.

Take the eagle as a sign of encouragement.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 12:46:26 PM EDT
I believe that the gods can speak to us thru omens and signs. Hell, everytime a Christian prays for something or another and something remotely happens concerning that prayer they say it was "God" so why can't other gods speak to their followers too. I ask Thor to turn the rain that was moving in at the NASCAR Truck Race over the weekend and it went around the track, why shouldn't I think that it was the god Thor that did it. If a Christian would have prayed to their god for the same thing and it happened they'd be saying it was him so why can't I say it was my god Thor?
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