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Posted: 9/13/2004 4:06:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 1:01:34 PM EDT by Penguin_101]
I was on another forum where they were talking about 9-11. I posted "Never forget. Never forgive". I got very mixed emotions on this statement. Here are the good ones:

You said it Penguin

...and yes never forget A terrorist is a terrorist regardless where there from and it has to be stopped..

Couldn't agree more!

Not only for the terrorists but also the ones that give them any incentive or protection.

Now here is the one I .... I don't know

If it's ok , can I express a few thoughts.......

the feeling of hate and wanting revenge is not the road to recovery.
there must be forgivness or there is no hope,
not only for those who done this, but in ourselves.

an eye for an eye attitude only makes the world blind
we will never ever stop evil..

not to add to it is one answer...
but it will always be there.

that is life .

by not adding to it, we are fighting it.

even if these people
( they are dead, and yes, may they rest in peace, but I mean their like)
even if they are caught and nailed , there are more just around the corner .
evil only prospers when good men do nothing.

'forgive them for they know not what they do ' is a much stronger statement then it seems.
it goes for all of us. do we really know what we are doing and saying, half the time ?
are our actions doing more damage in some ways ...around us..
which is every bit as dangerous as what happened on Sept 11th.

maybe it is in smaller ways but it all spreads out and out and we may never know the consequences of them
for good or bad...in the long term

so it is the same with these people.
they started out hating as children
taught by their parents.... maybe .
spreading the hate in 'words' only , until their heads went wild believing this was the way to 'get back'

maybe injustice ,somewhere along the line , frustrated them to the extent they wanted to 'show what they could do for all their kind'
most are attention seekers.

who really knows how their minds work ?

but don't we 'mostly' know how ours do ?

on a daily basis we have to forgive with something like this.
what's the point in sending out hate signals. it will only do more damage.
all around . and it could well end up another hate attack of a bigger magnitude eventually.
if we forget wanting to spend our lives hating.......
and move on
everything will get a lot better.
it does not mean we forget

and it does not mean we do nothing about what happened
but it can't be done thinking 'all evil will be wiped out forever' by such

it does not work like that and it never will

unless we all change ...everyone everywhere

and what chance of that?

hate is a killing emotion in itself and destroys everything in it's path. most especially in the person themselves
so what real good can that person do
if hate consumes them ?

God forgive us.
none of us are without sin
(in thoughts words and actions)

That's the attitude that keeps the hate alive.

All of the quotes are talking about my orginal post " Never forget. Never forgive."

Am I wrong and what could I say to respond to this.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:22:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:22:31 AM EDT
Forgiveness starts when the other persons stops attacking. God tell us to value human life, to the point that we must value our own life enough to take the life of another. It is not something that we should ever want to do, but rather become FORCED to do because it is either us or them. ANd since we value our life over evil then they MUST be eradicated. We do not kill because of lack of forgiveness, but rather because of love for ourselves and other humankind. To do anything else would mean we ourselves would die.

If she fails to see this ask her what she will do when someone has a knife to her kids throat and wants to kill her child. Ask her who's life is more important at the point, the terrorist or her child.

If she thinks both lives are equal then she is a dumbass and should be called as such.

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:24:39 AM EDT
I don't see it as wrong, but I have no idea at this time what to tell you to say.
To friggen early in the morning for me to have my head on.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:25:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:25:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 4:28:58 AM EDT by Penguin_101]

Originally Posted By MrsGungho:
I don't see it as wrong, but I have no idea at this time what to tell you to say.
To friggen early in the morning for me to have my head on.

That is why I am asking you guys.

Thanks Sarge! I posted that and I will post the update. I will post TBS responce or something like it if they still think we should "'forgive them for they know not what they do'' Waiting until TBS answers Sarge.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:26:36 AM EDT
ACtually BeerSlayer, back in the time of Jesus is was considered "disrepectful" to turn the other cheek to someone.

By turning your check you were basically ignoring them.

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:50:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:52:57 AM EDT
God forgives, I have a problem with it sometimes
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:54:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 4:56:12 AM EDT by monkeyman]
Never forget, never forgive pretty much says it all.


"Shoot terrorists, not each other."
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:58:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:59:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:11:24 AM EDT

even if these people
( they are dead, and yes, may they rest in peace, but I mean their like)
even if they are caught and nailed , there are more just around the corner .
evil only prospers when good men do nothing.

Well then, we have our work cut out for us. We are certainly not going to let evil prosper and we'll be glad to go around the corner to kill more terrorists.

I hate atoners. We were attacked. Plain and simple. I could give a shit less about their religion and sand choked country. When they use religion as an excuse to commit crimes against humanity, they are paid for.

We are the United States and we're still the best country in the world.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:14:56 AM EDT
As has been noted, turning the other cheek has more to do with reacting to an insult than allowing you, your family, and certainly your country, to passively sit by and allow yourselves to be slaughtered. The person who responded to your post has attempted to weave some biblical response with a touchy-feely answer that shows that we as a people sdhould be "more enlightened." As a result, we shouldn't respond to force with force of our own. This is an essential tenet of liberal thought: I am a liberal because I have "seen the light," and if only more people could emotionally and intellectually arrive at the same place, we'd all be better off. Right.

These ideas are often put forth by those that live in gated communities, have armed body guards for protection, and believe that to suggest an individual take some responsibility for their own protection and welfare, lessens them as a person. I have a friend who is such a person, and is the consummate liberal. He's a good friend, but where self defense is concerned, he exhibits a severe case of cranial-rectal inversion. These are the people that (should there be some type of terrorist attack again, this time in the heartland) will be first in line at your house, asking if you have an extra gun.

President George W. Bush has done more as a President, to ensure that we as a country have done more to provide economic aid, medical aid, disaster relief aid, and every other type of assistance to the Muslim world than anyone else before him. No one has done more to extend the misery and suffering of the Muslim world than the Muslim leaders of the 20th Century (with Saddam topping the list). Muslim leaders should have long ago stopped the anti-Western hate teachings of their Wahabi schools, and learned that we have wanted peace in all the world (the Arab world included). They didn't do their job and accept that responsibility, so now they'll have to answer for their crimes. I have zero sympathy foe them. I take no satisfaction in the notion that some innocent women and children will die in this conflict, but they were already dying at the hands of Islamic leaders, and at the end of the day, better theirs than mine and yours. That's the choice, pure and simple. If they want to stop it, they can, but I'm not holding my breath.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 12:58:51 PM EDT
Here is the answer

I know what you are saying
and I do know the horror feeling
but added to my horror feeling on saturday was your message
and then it was repeated by others
and then you posted it on another post later
when I was just recovering

it stirred up emotions. none of them good (as far as I can see)
and some of us have said nothing about what your words really may mean to each of us
a lot feel like you I know ( from reading about it for over two years here now)
but is it necessary to keep saying it?

that's what I am talking about in my reply mostly
it just seemed worse as the other tragedy had happened

but the hate you expressed is now and in the future

and so many people must be feeling the same
think of all that hatred stirring up.........

I never will forget seeing the people on tv wanting to watch that Oklahoma fellow die ( the electric chair ?) a few years ago
why would anyone want to see someone punished
no matter what he done.
surely none of us can throw stones.

we may not be anything as bad
but 'there but for the grace of God go I'
whatever reason he done such a thing ?
thank goodness we are not in that situation
whether it be madness , our surroundings
or people

what he done was just horrific
but to want to gloat and see him squirm is not being a proper human being either ?
in fact it makes them worse as 'they should know better' ?

I don't need to know if someone is feeling 'we must never forgive'

I know the damage that sentiment alone can do. to anyone you say it to and others listening
it just goes on and on and on
and what good can possibly come of it ?
right, we need to 'do something' about what happened
(as we do about starving people and people suffering terribly in wars in other places right now )

if you really think about it , it's when it's on our own doorstep that we feel things a lot more and so we react stronger.
it is affecting us and our comforts maybe ?
I know this changed things for everyone
but mostly we thought about those who suffered in the actual event before this

sept 11th was a crime against humanity not just America
and any right thinking human being would be very very sad , very very angry and very very hurt etc etc

emotions , especially ... and really especially of unbelief

I don't think even the 'planners' themselves expected the towers to destruct so complet and so quickly
and it's aftermath was ' in their eyes' a real 'prize'

horrible thought but there it is
(they know not what they are thinking)

I watched it all as it happened also
in absolute horror and sick to the core
feeling helpless. as everyone did

but most of us can only be where we are at this moment in time
and the best we can do is do is all we can to be kinder and more gentle with our fellow man.
life is so precious, as is our fellow man.

maybe we too have lapsed along the way and this and other atrocities brings us to our senses in other and many and various ways.
I know it did for a lot of people just after it happened

the 'bad' people like to cause confusion and so when that sets it it brings fear and then it brings hate
and more reactions
so on and on it goes

even if we were to go down the road of being kinder
(when circumstances are put up to us) it would be a better world
and maybe we would have learned (a hard) lesson ?

surely the people who died and suffered are worth that at least

but I do understand what you say.

ZZZZZZzzzzzzz.... Oh ....
Hmmm...What do you think?
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 1:01:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Forgiveness starts when the other persons stops attacking.


The Sarge said it, and that's why we cannot forget or forgive yet.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 1:05:32 PM EDT
+1 for sarge.
Forgiveness is only given to those who stop sinning (in this case killing innocent people) and desire change. The terrorists have not stopped and do not desire to stop therefore no forgiveness
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 1:07:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
It's the good lord's job to forgive you, it's my job to help you meet him.

NEVER Forget.
NEVER Forgive.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 1:11:53 PM EDT
I'm not sure what forgiveness accomplishes if the transgressor does not ask for it. Sounds nice and peaceful and "accepting" of others' views etc. ad nauseum. Not to say I wouldn't forgive a close personal friend for something or the pet cat for coughing up a hair ball but we ARE talking MURDER.....CORRECT?
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 1:16:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 1:32:18 PM EDT
Here is a link photography-on-the.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44323&highlight=

Boosting1Bar is on there to and posting about this.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 1:44:58 PM EDT
Wah, Wah

You offended me. I'm tellin' ma.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 1:47:47 PM EDT
Now some UK guy is saying the US should make the whole world safer and not just us!
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:44:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
i have a favorite saying

It's the good lord's job to forgive you, it's my job to help you meet him.

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