Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 5/23/2001 9:59:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/23/2001 11:43:16 AM EDT by Opie]
I purchased an Oly pre-ban lower last November. Oly's site shows the serial number as manufactured in early 1994. I also have a signed statement from the original selling FFL certifying that it was sold and assembled into a "semi-automatic assault weapon" prior to Sept. 1994. Is this documentation enough? I have no copies of any paperwork dated before the ban.
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 12:53:30 PM EDT
The letter from the FFL is probably good enough - Oly's factory records (now burnt up) would be of no help to you if it was first sold as a stripped lower. The letter you have from the original FFL would be good enough for me, if I were buying it.
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 7:57:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/24/2001 3:51:41 AM EDT
Sounds pretty safe to me, however, are you able to contact the original FFL? If so, you might want to ask him to sign the letter, under oath, and make it an affidavit. Reason being, if this guy dies or disappears, the affidavit would be admissible in any court proceeding as an exception to the hearsay rule (unavailable witness). Good luck.
Link Posted: 5/24/2001 5:25:47 AM EDT
Steve in VA: The selling FFL is still around and would be willing to sign a statement under oath. However, he is in another state so I would have to get this done by mail. What would constitute an affidavit? Thanks to all for responding.
Link Posted: 5/24/2001 9:13:35 AM EDT
He would give a statement under oath, most likely before a notary public. Of course, the letter could still be admitted for its effect on your knowledge and intent (you thought it was legal), just not for the truth of the matter asserted (that it was in fact pre-ban). After 20ish to 35ish years the letter becomes admissible for the truth of the matter asserted (depends on the state). Since any trial will likely be in Federal Court, FRE 803(16) says 20 years. If the statement about the pre-ban status is on the face of the invoice or the receipt, it may get in under FRE 803 (14) or (15), if you claim the deal was for an interest in a pre-ban rifle. You could also see if he keeps a book or file showing that the gun was assembled pre-ban. You could try to get a copy of that file in under the business records exception (that's getting more uncertain, most courts would want an affidavit from him stating that those records were made in the standard course of his business, the feds want such a statement for sure under FRE 803(6)).
Link Posted: 5/24/2001 12:28:47 PM EDT
Just get a notary to swear the guy and have it notarized- that's an affidavit. So far as admissibility, you don't have to wait the statutory period of years if the guy becomes "unavailable" (dies or whereabouts unknown)- like I said above, that is an exception to the hearsay rule and the declaration can be offered for its truth. If he is "available", you just drag him into court as a witness- no need to rely on the hearsay document.
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 6:56:07 AM EDT
Thanks for the help. Actually, I'm safe for now. My Oly lower currently has a 16" bull and A2 stock. I really wanted the preban lower so I could use a suppressor. I have one for my HK Tactical and it is too much fun. [:)] Perhaps, I'll wait for a test case. It just won't be me. [:D]
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 2:06:57 PM EDT
suppressor? You mean sound suppressor? You don't need a pre-ban for that, you need the ATF's permission for that.
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 2:20:21 PM EDT
It seems to me that if you had a sound suppressor attached to a post-ban via a threaded muzzle, you'd have to permanently attach the suppressor (hard solder, weld, blind pin, etc.) just as you would a muzzle brake. After all, you COULD unscrew the sound suppressor and put on an Evil Flash Hider of Death (TM) in its place. That's what a terrorist might do if he or she decided to shoot up a bus full of hearing-impaired people. Anybody agree, disagree, or not give a rat's patootie?
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 5:13:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 1:06:37 PM EDT
ATF considers a sound suppressor to be a flash suppressor as well (a very good one, in fact). You can't put a sound or flash suppressor on a post-ban with a pistol grip (if it's got a removable magazine). If your post-ban can legally mount a flash suppressor (mini-14 or M1A, for example, or an AR with the pistol grip removed), then you can mount a sound suppressor - all NFA rules apply to the sound suppressor, too, though.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 1:57:16 PM EDT
You can't have a usable threaded muzzle on a post-ban AR-15. Screwing on a registered, legal, NFA sound suppressor would not make the threaded muzzle legal, unless the sound suppressor was permanently attached.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 2:01:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Circuits: If your post-ban can legally mount a flash suppressor (mini-14 or M1A, for example, or an AR with the pistol grip removed), then you can mount a sound suppressor - all NFA rules apply to the sound suppressor, too, though.
View Quote
Right, and that means that you need to fill out a Form 4 on the S/S, get your CLEO to sign off, fill out the FBI fingerprint cards, get the passport photo, pay the 200 dollars and send it off, in duplicate. Then wait 90 torturous days! Have fun!
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 6:03:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/30/2001 4:40:30 AM EDT by Opie]
Sorry guys, I should have said SOUND suppressor in my earlier post. You have to have a pre-ban lower since the sound suppressor is also considered a flash suppressor. My dealer, here in Tennessee, makes the process of getting a "silencer" pretty painless. (except for the 90 day wait). GEMTECH actually has a bi-lock mount for the M4-96D without the flash hider slots that can be welded on to a post ban upper. However, when you snap the suppressor on, that post ban upper needs to be on a pre-ban lower. [url]www.gem-tech.com/m4-96d.html[/url]
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 10:16:45 AM EDT
Happyshooter & Steve, while having a notary public witness the document is not a bad idea, the Notary can't "swear" the witness in. The only thing a notary does is witness & verify the signatures on the document. The notary has nothing to do with the information in the document. Norm
Top Top