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Posted: 9/12/2004 7:10:37 PM EDT
I hope those that have a great knowledge of the gun laws of this country please read this and lets try and find any problems...

I have a Saiga - 12 shotgun that I am wanting to convert to pistol grip and folding stock.

The Saiga is a semi-auto shotgun that accepts a 5-round detatchable magazine.

I have not been able to do convert it for several reason ....

1) The 1994 AWB deemed it a Semi Auto Assault Weapon

With it sunsetting tonight, I do not have to worry with it any more

2) Since the Saiga-12 is a imported Russian shotgun it also is subject to the 1989
import ban [ 922(r) ]. This states that a firearm cannot be assembled from parts
if it is the same as one that is banned by import. It cannot have more than 10 imported

The parts count for a Saiga shotgun can be found in this BATF letter:

Part Counts per different models for 922(r) compliance

The parts count for the Saiga-12 is 13 parts. This does not take in account for a pistol grip because Saigas do not enter this country with PGs... SO, the parts count is now 14 to add a pistol grip.

Here is the details of the Saiga-12 parts count & compliance:

*Parts that are not applicable to the Saiga are striked out

(1) Receiver---------------------------------Russian
(2) Barrels-----------------------------------Russian
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks, trunion
(5) Muzzle attachments---------------------Russian
(6) Bolts--------------------------------------Russian
(7) Bolt carriers------------------------------Russian
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons-------------------------------Russian
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers============== US COMPLIANT
(12) Hammers============= US COMPLIANT
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors========== US COMPLIANT
(15) Buttstock============= US COMPLIANT
(16) Pistol grips============ US COMPLIANT
(17) Forearms, handguards------------------Russian
(18) Magazine bodies-------------------------Russian
(19) Followers---------------------------------Russian
(20)Floorplates -------------------------------Russian

Russian (imported) parts = 10

US made - compliant parts = 5

With these parts ( trigger, hammer & disconnect ) chenged to US parts I am in good shape.

I also will add the US made pistol grip ( so it doesnt count against me )

I also will a US made folding butt-stock ( so it doesnt count against me )

This leaves me to be able to use imported mags and imported chokes ( muzzle attachments )

Now I am 922(r) compliant !

This leaves the "sporting purposes" clause....

As far as everything that I could find there is no specific "sporting purposes" guidelines but there is the vague provision where the Secretary of the Treasury has the power to deem firearms "sporting" or "non-sporting".

They did this with the Striker-12 ( StreetSweeper ) and the USAS-12 shotguns.

Those shotguns are now deemed Destructive Devices and require a $200 tax....

For the Saiga to be considered a DD the Secretary will have to name it specifically....

At this point is there ANY legal reason that would prevent me from using a 8-round magazine in my shotgun ?

Does it look like I have covered my bases or do you see something that I have overlooked ??

Thanks, looking forward to everyone's posts...

Link Posted: 9/12/2004 7:16:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 7:19:52 PM EDT by 1Andy2]
It seems like you know just about as much as anyone else on this subject

However, if you haven't gone here yet, then do so. They know tons about the saiga-12. Hell I just got one and I had to go there to learn how to operate it properly (the manual sucks).

ETA: As far as I read the law, nothing prevented you from having an 8 round detachable mag on your semi-auto shotgun while the ban was still in effect except for the ATF's insistence that a "fixed" mag and a detachable mag are the same thing.

Now with the awb expiring, you should have no worries whatsoever in that regard.

The only problem you might have is FINDING one.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 7:26:23 PM EDT
Umm, like... those guns don't have muzzle devices n'stuff...
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 7:30:47 PM EDT
I have been a member over there for awhile now.

I post over at saiga-12.com all the time.... we are looking for the same answers to these questions... just not alot of members over there. There is no place better to get answers from thatn the great members of ar15.com
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 7:33:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 7:34:27 PM EDT by TapperMan]

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
Umm, like... those guns don't have muzzle devices n'stuff...

Some models have external screw on chokes.
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