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Posted: 11/20/2008 1:50:46 PM EDT


Maybe I am too optimistic but I think our chances of striking down a future AWB are pretty good.  Here is why I think so.  



A lot has changed since 1994.



1. First off you have the internet which is a great way to communicate and get a large number of people organized.

2. The AR is a lot more commonly used today.  There are a lot more AR owners today than in '94.

3. There are more pro-gun democrats.

4. Democrats still remember how many seats they lost because of the first AWB ban.

5. The NRA is on our side this time.  Back in '94 if I remember right the NRA did nothing to prevent the AWB and even helped pass it.

6. More Pro-2AM groups today.

7. Heller Case (can't hurt)



Now I'm not saying things won't be tough and we can just sit back but I think our chances are pretty good.  All the panic buying is also a good sign people are paying attention this time.  If all these new firearm owners get involved that will help even more.



Ok so am I completely out of my mind?  Flame away!!

Link Posted: 11/20/2008 1:53:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 1:54:33 PM EDT by California_Kid]
You raised several good points.  Thanks for posting it.  We do have some power here, a lot more people and much better communication.

I am still very concerned about it because we are in a situation where Congress does not have to listen to constituents.  It's a parallel to the situation we have here in Californistan, where moonbats (far left segment of the Democratic Party) controls almost 2/3 of the legislature and has stacked the courts.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 1:55:11 PM EDT
I with you, I know ban bills will be presented and fought hard for by some but I completely agree that we have more ammo than ever to help defeat  them.  But I am airing on the side of caution.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 1:57:12 PM EDT
i agree with you but,....



...prepare for the worst, and hope for the best.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 1:57:14 PM EDT
One of the big anti-gunners said it well when he said that before the election, we were in posession of the ball and we were on the 2 yard line. Now, they have posession, but they're still at the 98 yard line.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 1:57:41 PM EDT
I agree with you. We may be wrong but I'm really not worried and am looking forward to all the deals to be had next year when everyone buying now needs to sell.

Also, last time IIRC it only passed by 1 vote.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 2:06:28 PM EDT
We must continue to stay positive and fight the good battle.

Join the NRA, GOA, and other Pro 2-AM groups.  Take your friends and family shooting even if they have never heard a gun in their life.  Give NRA memberships as gifts they do come with a good magazine.  I know I will be giving at least 3 NRA memberships as presents for Christmas.  If I get one person to renew on their own then it was successful in my mind.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 2:10:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 2:12:44 PM EDT by Max_Mike]
Yes you are too optimistic

And there is more to this than just a AWB we are going to get hit from different directions. All the clubs in the bag are going to be used in this beat down,
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 2:15:24 PM EDT
There are no more Democrats, they are CommieCrats.

And they don't remember shit.  Make them feel in 2010.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 2:34:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 2:37:59 PM EDT by motown_steve]
Originally Posted By star2323:
Maybe I am too optimistic but I think our chances of striking down a future AWB are pretty good.  Here is why I think so.  

A lot has changed since 1994.

1. First off you have the internet which is a great way to communicate and get a large number of people organized.
2. The AR is a lot more commonly used today.  There are a lot more AR owners today than in '94.
3. There are more pro-gun democrats.
4. Democrats still remember how many seats they lost because of the first AWB ban.
5. The NRA is on our side this time.  Back in '94 if I remember right the NRA did nothing to prevent the AWB and even helped pass it.
6. More Pro-2AM groups today.
7. Heller Case (can't hurt)

Now I'm not saying things won't be tough and we can just sit back but I think our chances are pretty good.  All the panic buying is also a good sign people are paying attention this time.  If all these new firearm owners get involved that will help even more.

Ok so am I completely out of my mind?  Flame away!!



NONE of that matters! Not one single item on your list is worth anything. Do you want to know why? Because the pro-gun agenda is locked out.

1. Even in pro-gun circles, no one wants to talk about weapons that are characterized as "assault weapons".

2. Even if there are some Democrats who would resist an "assault weapons" ban, there are enough RINOs to invalidate them.

3. EVERY Democrat, pro-gun or not is going to be looking to curry favor with their new President. He is powerful and in the opinion of the news media, congress and majority of voters, he has been given a mandate to advance his agenda.

4. So far, his entire cabinet is being staffed by those who are the most anti-gun libtards ever. Janet Reno's No 2 for Attorney General? Rahm Emanuel, the Brady Bunch's Man of the Year in 2007, for Chief of Staff? Hillary Clinton? Tom Daschle? Give me a fucking break!

5. President Elect Obama comes from THE most anti-gun place in the country. He also has a long and vocal record of opposing the right of the people to keep and bear arms. He has said with his own mouth that he opposes concealed carry and thinks that there should be a Federal Ban on concealed carry. When asked if he would support a ban on all handguns he said he didn't think he could get that done...not that he wouldn't want to ban all handguns, but at that time he didn't think there would be enough votes to make it a reality.

Do not kid yourself. Gun Control is coming and I see nothing that can be done to stop it. The Dems officially came two seats short of shutting the Republicans completely out of the government. They are currently stealing one of those seats in MN (rest assured, Al Franken will get that seat the foxes will see to it) and they have two other races that they are working on stealing. One is in Alaska where the incumbent is going to prison and the other is in Georgia where the incumbent is in a tight runoff. If they can steal either of these elections in conjunction with the Franken steal then the Republicans might as well stay home for the next two years. There is no hope of them getting anything done in Congress. They will be completely irrelevant and totally useless. Even if they don't then there will be enough cross over votes from Northeast RINOs to pass gun control.

I have no hope left. This is an unstoppable tidal wave of liberalism. The NRA will have no sway in this government. Conservatives will have no sway in this government. Moderates will have no sway in this government and gun owners will certainly have no sway over this government. You tell me how the NRA is going to influence the government with the likes of Obama, Franken, Kerry, Clinton, Emanuel, Pelosi and Reid having unfettered control over the Executive and Legislative branches of government.

ETA - The ONLY hope is Heller, and then by the time that it reaches the Supreme Court Obama will probably have named two replacement appointees. Pray that neither of the justices replaced are Scalia or Kennedy. Both of them are in their mid seventies.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 2:37:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By star2323:
Maybe I am too optimistic but I think our chances of striking down a future AWB are pretty good.  Here is why I think so.  

A lot has changed since 1994.

1. First off you have the internet which is a great way to communicate and get a large number of people organized.
2. The AR is a lot more commonly used today.  There are a lot more AR owners today than in '94.
3. There are more pro-gun democrats.
4. Democrats still remember how many seats they lost because of the first AWB ban.
5. The NRA is on our side this time.  Back in '94 if I remember right the NRA did nothing to prevent the AWB and even helped pass it.
6. More Pro-2AM groups today.
7. Heller Case (can't hurt)

Now I'm not saying things won't be tough and we can just sit back but I think our chances are pretty good.  All the panic buying is also a good sign people are paying attention this time.  If all these new firearm owners get involved that will help even more.

Ok so am I completely out of my mind?  Flame away!!




Good points and I agree!
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 2:41:59 PM EDT
It is not a matter of IF but a matter of WHEN.

Link Posted: 11/20/2008 2:44:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By star2323:
Maybe I am too optimistic but I think our chances of striking down a future AWB are pretty good.  Here is why I think so.  

A lot has changed since 1994.

1. First off you have the internet which is a great way to communicate and get a large number of people organized.
2




Tru, but the Gun haters also use the interent also.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 3:23:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 3:24:10 PM EDT by OBird]
I try to be optimistic.


But honestly, before hussein is out in 4 or 8 or 16 years, I honeslty don't know to give better or worse than even money on having an all-out CONFISCATION of AWs.

AWB with OR without confiscation? I give it a 94% chance of happening.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 3:35:12 PM EDT
One thing trumps all your listed items.

People are more ignorant now.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 4:48:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 4:49:33 PM EDT by CaptWillard]
Do not forget also that there is no money to do the things he wants to do but banning things by excecutive order (ammo imports, parts etc) and passing anti gun legislation is FREE. He will want to show his groupies he is doing something even if it is pointless, stupid or ineffective,,he will do it anyway. Everything on his social agenda that doesn't cost anything or much is gonna happen. Make all semiautos a class three item and require registration/taxes to keep them. Take it to the bank.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 4:50:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kingoftheroad:
i agree with you but,....



...prepare for the worst, and hope for the best.


+1
It's like you read what was in my mind and then posted it!
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 4:59:05 PM EDT
You honestly think that the Liberal Media, bought and paid for by George Soros, won't do everything in it's power to convince the SHEEPLE that an AWB is GOOD... it's for the children!

The media convinced more than half of this country that a man like Obama should be President.  The media convinced those same idiots that the economic mess is COMPLETELY the fault of the Republicans.

All it's gonna take is another "mass public shooting rampage".

The media will talk about the overwhelming support for an AWB bill.  Your average sheeple won't know the difference between a 10/22 with banana mag and an AK.  Gun owners will be vilified.  Anyone who has one of those evil assault rifles is obviously mentally unstable, and a threat to society.  Another Columbine or VT waiting to happen.

Congress will push it through, Obama will sign it.  The media will scream about "What a great day this is in the fight against crime!  No longer will people be killed by GUNS!"

And every congress critter that votes for the ban will do so secure in the knowledge that, unlike 1994, there is NO CHANCE they will lose their jobs.  ACORN and the media will see to that.


Things HAVE changed since 1994.  You're right about that.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 5:04:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
There are no more Democrats, they are CommieCrats.

And they don't remember shit.  Make them feel in 2010.


Yes, but I think this thread is more about some rationalize why they voted Obama/demorat.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 5:13:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Loki41872:
You honestly think that the Liberal Media, bought and paid for by George Soros, won't do everything in it's power to convince the SHEEPLE that an AWB is GOOD... it's for the children!

The media convinced more than half of this country that a man like Obama should be President.  The media convinced those same idiots that the economic mess is COMPLETELY the fault of the Republicans.

All it's gonna take is another "mass public shooting rampage".

The media will talk about the overwhelming support for an AWB bill.  Your average sheeple won't know the difference between a 10/22 with banana mag and an AK.  Gun owners will be vilified.  Anyone who has one of those evil assault rifles is obviously mentally unstable, and a threat to society.  Another Columbine or VT waiting to happen.

Congress will push it through, Obama will sign it.  The media will scream about "What a great day this is in the fight against crime!  No longer will people be killed by GUNS!"

And every congress critter that votes for the ban will do so secure in the knowledge that, unlike 1994, there is NO CHANCE they will lose their jobs.  ACORN and the media will see to that.


Things HAVE changed since 1994.  You're right about that.


So what do you recommend doing then?  Just giving up and letting the county go to hell?
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 5:16:40 PM EDT
Gun owners will go quietly into the night.

Link Posted: 11/20/2008 5:26:55 PM EDT
You know, if I was the manufacturer of any AR system, I'd drop the price of my firearms by $200 to $250 and promote the living day lights out of them. Go for 1 million new ARs purchased by Americans by Feb.20th (surely the new Congress can't pass the AWB in a month).

Or give great deals on optics and ammo. "buy now and we'll throw in 1000 rounds of ammo".

The more Americans have them, the more political leverage there'll be to keep them legal.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 5:33:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JusAdBellum:
You know, if I was the manufacturer of any AR system, I'd drop the price of my firearms by $200 to $250 and promote the living day lights out of them. Go for 1 million new ARs purchased by Americans by Feb.20th (surely the new Congress can't pass the AWB in a month).

Or give great deals on optics and ammo. "buy now and we'll throw in 1000 rounds of ammo".

The more Americans have them, the more political leverage there'll be to keep them legal.


I really doubt there is anywhere near that amount of profit in ARs to allow manufacturers to do that.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 5:34:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Loki41872:
You honestly think that the Liberal Media, bought and paid for by George Soros, won't do everything in it's power to convince the SHEEPLE that an AWB is GOOD... it's for the children!

The media convinced more than half of this country that a man like Obama should be President.  The media convinced those same idiots that the economic mess is COMPLETELY the fault of the Republicans.

All it's gonna take is another "mass public shooting rampage".

The media will talk about the overwhelming support for an AWB bill.  Your average sheeple won't know the difference between a 10/22 with banana mag and an AK.  Gun owners will be vilified.  Anyone who has one of those evil assault rifles is obviously mentally unstable, and a threat to society.  Another Columbine or VT waiting to happen.

Congress will push it through, Obama will sign it.  The media will scream about "What a great day this is in the fight against crime!  No longer will people be killed by GUNS!"

And every congress critter that votes for the ban will do so secure in the knowledge that, unlike 1994, there is NO CHANCE they will lose their jobs.  ACORN and the media will see to that.


Things HAVE changed since 1994.  You're right about that.


+10000000000

They have enough confidence to make a dictator jealous right now.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 5:39:49 PM EDT
Some people get caught up in all the doom and gloom. There certainly ARE people in Congress that get all giddy inside when they think of an AWB. But there are lots of democrats that are pro gun in Congress. I don't care what anyone says about Dems. I don't agree with many of their policy ideas, but in Michigan, all the Democrats are very pro gun, except for the dumbass Senators that are basically elected by Detroit. In fact, I was in college last winter and in English class we had to do a project on a subject matter we carried about, and mine was based on gun control and why I disagree with it. Almost all of the "liberals" agreed that it is stupid to ban these "Assault weapons" and they said their own friends who were Democrats were all seeing the light on this issue as well.

The enemies of the 2nd amendment will keep trying to push bills through Congress to ban "AWs" but I don't think they will succeed, at least not within 4 or more years. We are alot stronger than we were back in '94, like it has been said above.

The FBI isn't going to show up at your house and demand for our guns.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 5:51:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Loki41872:
You honestly think that the Liberal Media, bought and paid for by George Soros, won't do everything in it's power to convince the SHEEPLE that an AWB is GOOD... it's for the children!

The media convinced more than half of this country that a man like Obama should be President. The media convinced those same idiots that the economic mess is COMPLETELY the fault of the Republicans.

All it's gonna take is another "mass public shooting rampage".

The media will talk about the overwhelming support for an AWB bill. Your average sheeple won't know the difference between a 10/22 with banana mag and an AK. Gun owners will be vilified. Anyone who has one of those evil assault rifles is obviously mentally unstable, and a threat to society. Another Columbine or VT waiting to happen.

Congress will push it through, Obama will sign it. The media will scream about "What a great day this is in the fight against crime! No longer will people be killed by GUNS!"

And every congress critter that votes for the ban will do so secure in the knowledge that, unlike 1994, there is NO CHANCE they will lose their jobs. ACORN and the media will see to that.


Things HAVE changed since 1994. You're right about that.

THIS!
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 5:52:23 PM EDT
I agree with to a point.

I do think they will ram something down our throats.  They don't give a shit about what anybody thinks.

However I do think there is about 40 D's in the House that if we put enough pressure on them they will vote it down.

You KNOW the D leadership will be putting pressure on them.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 5:52:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Loki41872:
You honestly think that the Liberal Media, bought and paid for by George Soros, won't do everything in it's power to convince the SHEEPLE that an AWB is GOOD... it's for the children!

The media convinced more than half of this country that a man like Obama should be President. The media convinced those same idiots that the economic mess is COMPLETELY the fault of the Republicans.

All it's gonna take is another "mass public shooting rampage".

The media will talk about the overwhelming support for an AWB bill. Your average sheeple won't know the difference between a 10/22 with banana mag and an AK. Gun owners will be vilified. Anyone who has one of those evil assault rifles is obviously mentally unstable, and a threat to society. Another Columbine or VT waiting to happen.

Congress will push it through, Obama will sign it. The media will scream about "What a great day this is in the fight against crime! No longer will people be killed by GUNS!"

And every congress critter that votes for the ban will do so secure in the knowledge that, unlike 1994, there is NO CHANCE they will lose their jobs. ACORN and the media will see to that.


Things HAVE changed since 1994. You're right about that.

THIS!
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 5:54:33 PM EDT
one school shooting and a 2/3rds dem majority will tell you to turn em all in, heller be damned.


they are going to use power to stack the deck so much in favor that even if they piss people off we won't be able to get rid of them.

their grip on the country is about to become as firm as their grip on chicago.

card check
killing off talk radio
legalizing 30 million new democrat voters via illegal alien amnesty
even more of the young generation that has grown up brainwashed by an education system designed by bill ayers and the like will be able to vote in each coming election.

dark times ahead.

Link Posted: 11/20/2008 6:11:49 PM EDT
Fact:  So-called "assault weapons" as defined by the '94 AWB were seldom used in crimes.

Fact:  The crime rate did not drop as a result of the '94 AWB.

Fact:  The crime rate did not increase as a result of the expiration of the '94 AWB.

After ten years, it made no difference.

So the question to politicians is, if it made absolutely no differnce in the crime rate, why do it again, and this time permanently?  

Why?  The lie of "these are the preferred weapons of criminals" was exposed for all to see.

The lie that these were machineguns being banned was exposed.  

So, where is the imperative to pass a new AWB?

It can be for no other reason than "payback" against gun owners, and stripping them of the exact type of weapon most useful to a citizenry that may resist a Communist takeover, overthrow an overbearing totalitarian government.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 6:13:42 PM EDT
Pray for peace but prepare for war.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 6:17:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Fact:  So-called "assault weapons" as defined by the '94 AWB were seldom used in crimes.

Fact:  The crime rate did not drop as a result of the '94 AWB.

Fact:  The crime rate did not increase as a result of the expiration of the '94 AWB.

After ten years, it made no difference.

So the question to politicians is, if it made absolutely no differnce in the crime rate, why do it again, and this time permanently?  

Why?  The lie of "these are the preferred weapons of criminals" was exposed for all to see.

The lie that these were machineguns being banned was exposed.  

So, where is the imperative to pass a new AWB?

It can be for no other reason than "payback" against gun owners, and stripping them of the exact type of weapon most useful to a citizenry that may resist a Communist takeover, overthrow an overbearing totalitarian government.


Facts? LMAO

The Facts are what obama, his communist masters, and their completely owned media SAY they are.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 6:32:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jeeper21:
Gun owners will go quietly into the night.




Negative!


Some will go loudly into the abyss.

Link Posted: 11/20/2008 6:34:05 PM EDT
There are way more AR 15 owners now than then, that's true.


I still think it's coming though, the Bastard Holding Office really really want's it.


Cat
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 6:37:45 PM EDT
They are already gearing up for "something"; look at the media and O's appointments.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 6:38:18 PM EDT
A little food for thought.

1)The NRA did not do nothing.  The 94 AWB was a compromise the NRA pushed for.  Some see this as doing nothing.  However, without their efforts the ban would have been more extensive and there would have been no sunset clause.

2)Some dems remember 1994 the way we do.  The ones who lost.  Pelosi Biden etc. were not affected so they view it differently.  Additioanlly, they not only remember 94 they remember 96 when Clinton got re-elected which blunted a lot of the impact of 94.

3)Expecting rhetoric speaking extremeists who believe their own propaganda to act logically or rationally is sure way to find your self asking if anyone got the number of that offensive line that just ass raped you.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 4:40:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JusAdBellum:
You know, if I was the manufacturer of any AR system, I'd drop the price of my firearms by $200 to $250 and promote the living day lights out of them. Go for 1 million new ARs purchased by Americans by Feb.20th (surely the new Congress can't pass the AWB in a month).

Or give great deals on optics and ammo. "buy now and we'll throw in 1000 rounds of ammo".

The more Americans have them, the more political leverage there'll be to keep them legal.


I agree and this is another area I do not understand.  If I was an AR manufacturer I would be running the factory 24 / 7 right now and doing everything possible to keep up with demand.  The more guns they sale the more people who will be involved in the fight.  Manufacturers might not be able to drop the price but they sure the hell can keep the price stable and run another shift or two to produce more product.

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