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Posted: 1/9/2020 10:52:23 PM EDT
In my assessment there is a high probability that the current "Virginia: There's Battle Lines Being Drawn" thread will get nuked, or locked on the 20th if not earlier for a number of reasons, leaving the participants in Richmond without coordination or updates. I realize there is a thread about radios for comms but I submit the vast majority of participants will arrive without radio capability. There is a cheaper, more effective way to enable instant updates and enable every participant to contribute and to be eyes/ears for the entire rally.
We cannot rely on the ARF forum for updates that we sorely need if it's one click away from being locked, leaving us stranded and blind. Don't tell me that has never happened before. I realize ARF is convenient but it can disappear in a nanosecond, especially if a legal "cease and desist" type letter arrives. Install the Telegram messenger app on your mobile device. Telegram runs on Android, iphones, windows devices, phones, tablets and PC's, it's platform-independent. Go to Google Play Store or Apple App store. It looks like this:  Attached FileTakes about 5 minutes to install. Secondly, make your phone number invisible to the outside world - follow this procedure. Make your number invisible in telegram Then, join the Rattlesnakerally group in Telegram. To find it, start the Telegram app and select the search function:  Attached FileType in the search term: RattleSnakeRally You will get two results, the first one, RattleSnakeRally, is a group that functions like a forum where all users can contribute to the discussion and post updates, maps, pics, even videos. The second one, RattleSnakerallyChannel is a read-only community, a telegram channel. If not interested in posting, can select the channel. Users interested in contributing updates can post in the first group.  Attached FileI think this RattleSnakeRally telegram group can function as a very useful tool to augment the tools we have in place where any member of the rally can post updates and be eyes for the entire community. The other benefit is that it can't be easily turned off unlike a forum thread. If you find this agreeable, please circulate this information. Respectfully yours |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 11:19:23 PM EDT
[#1]
Your contact information is not visible to the other members, especially if you make the contact info invisible.
The group has a limit of 200,000 users. Telegram channels have no theoretical limit at all. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 11:30:16 PM EDT
[#2]
It could be helpful if we have problems on arfcom although that is highly unlikely. It could come in particularly useful prior to the rally but probably not during the event itself just owing to the the cell network likely to be overloaded.
Thanks for setting that up. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 11:30:53 PM EDT
[#3]
The Telegram app became very popular during Hong Kong protests as it's the only tool that can instantly reach out to 200,000 users and unlike forums, FoolBook or Twitter lacks politically correct administration to turn things off.
This is the tool we need Telegram groups during Hong Kong protests |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 11:31:44 PM EDT
[#4]
Mobile devices will likely be inoperable.
Hasn't this been discussed......ad naseum? |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 11:37:31 PM EDT
[#5]
Lol good job putting that out there on the free wide web
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Posted: 1/9/2020 11:38:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It could be helpful if we have problems on arfcom although that is highly unlikely. It could come in particularly useful prior to the rally but probably not during the event itself just owing to the the cell network likely to be overloaded. Thanks for setting that up. I have been here for a long time. I've seen a gazillion threads get locked and nuked, sometimes randomly. It's already in the controversial zone, with many warnings. It's just amazing nobody plans for that contingency, we sorely need a backup so things can keep going and our comms don't became decapitated, leaderless and blind, turning us into a large crowd. You can't turn off Telegram. Radios are a not a solution. 98% of the people there won't have one, either unable to afford one or are radio-illiterate. Telegram is free and doesn't care about the range. I get it that cell networks can be deactivated but if you find a wifi hot spot.. or just move out of range, you are connected. It's a network that depends on everyone contributing. If you see an event, take a pic. Post your comments on the RattleSnakeRally group and also post the map. You can do all that in under 20 seconds. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 11:41:34 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mobile devices will likely be inoperable. Hasn't this been discussed......ad naseum? You don't need 100% cell coverage. All you need is a hot spot. And if you are 30 minutes away from Richmond you can receive updates from those near Capital, or vice-versa, warning of checkpoints, arrests, etc. It's hard to take down the entire cellular grid. It's a useful tool under many circumstances. We can't rely on the forums. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 11:43:44 PM EDT
[#8]
Disregard the shit-talkers, this will be a valuable tool in the toolbox.
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Posted: 1/9/2020 11:45:40 PM EDT
[#9]
I think it would be a good idea to limit data use as much as possible to allow for those live-streaming.
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Posted: 1/9/2020 11:45:44 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Disregard the shit-talkers, this will be a valuable tool in the toolbox. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 11:45:50 PM EDT
[#11]
Stolen from the cited article.
"While there is a common perception that Telegram is a secure messaging app, not all messages have more secure 'end-to-end' encryption by default. Only secret chats in Telegram have this encryption by default while group chat messages do not. That means that group communications on Telegram are less secure than secret chats." |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 11:46:30 PM EDT
[#12]
practice posting, get the hang of it. It's like a text messenger except there are 50,000 recipients, with each one able to reply. You can create private chats between members, not just encrypted but with message self-destruct timers. You read it and it's gone in 30 seconds. It's peer-to-peer meaning no messages are stored on the servers.
I am kind of thinking worst-case scenario, gotta think 5 steps ahead like in a chess game. What if this and what if that. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 11:47:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Sounds good. Thanks for going through the trouble.
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Posted: 1/9/2020 11:48:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Telegram app became very popular during Hong Kong protests as it's the only tool that can instantly reach out to 200,000 users and unlike forums, FoolBook or Twitter lacks politically correct administration to turn things off. This is the tool we need Telegram groups during Hong Kong protests |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 11:54:35 PM EDT
[#15]
BTW, speaking of HK inspired ideas:
Wasn't there some type of phone app they used based on a Bluetooth(?) mesh, that DOESN'T rely on cellular service? IIRC, it was something that used any other phone in range running the app, as a node, greatly extending the range. It could be (and was) used to send texts to another specific user (and although it uses the other phones to bounce/pass the signal forward, a p2p message is only readable by the recipient. There may have been a mass text option as well. The 2 main advantages of it were that killing cell service in the AO didn't affect it. And apparently, unlike normal text messages etc. the Chi.gov couldn't use it against the users. Anyone recall the details/specifics of this? |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 11:54:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stolen from the cited article. "While there is a common perception that Telegram is a secure messaging app, not all messages have more secure 'end-to-end' encryption by default. Only secret chats in Telegram have this encryption by default while group chat messages do not. That means that group communications on Telegram are less secure than secret chats." You can mesg a single person or the entire group. A "Secret chat" has a timeout value you can set. 1 second, 30 seconds, 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day or 1 week. That's for the situations where discretion is needed. I am just deeply concerned how we can communicate if the forum goes down. I don't have a radio, don't know anyone with a radio, it's a limited tool. A very limited number of recipients have it and a limited number of broadcasters. It can't send pics, nor maps. nor videos. My vision is to arm everyone with the capability to do a SITREP instantly and anywhere. Then you begin to harness the power of 15K or 50K or 100K or however many show up. Report roadblocks, arrests, take pics, post them. Whatever. Be creative. Without comms we are _blind_ and sorry, but the forum is just not a reliable or dependable source of intel as it can be nuked instantly worst-case and best case, is moderated to the point where I am not sure how much can be posted on it. ARF is a single point of failure. Unless there are other forums involved I am not aware of but they too can be instantly locked/deleted/members banned. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 11:55:53 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
China has had a hell of a time dealing with these kind of apps. While nothing will be a 100% secure, that alone should tell you what you need to know. Bluetooth meshing works. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 11:56:03 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BTW, speaking of HK inspired ideas: Wasn't there some type of phone app they used based on a Bluetooth(?) mesh, that DOESN'T rely on cellular service? IIRC, it was something that used any other phone in range running the app, as a node, greatly extending the range. It could be (and was) used to send texts to another specific user (and although it uses the other phones to bounce/pass the signal forward, a p2p message is only readable by the recipient. There may have been a mass text option as well. The 2 main advantages of it were that killing cell service in the AO didn't affect it. And apparently, unlike normal text messages etc. the Chi.gov couldn't use it against the users. Anyone recall the details/specifics of this?  Gotenna Mesh Review, The Future Of The Internet? |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 11:59:47 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BTW, speaking of HK inspired ideas: Wasn't there some type of phone app they used based on a Bluetooth(?) mesh, that DOESN'T rely on cellular service? IIRC, it was something that used any other phone in range running the app, as a node, greatly extending the range. It could be (and was) used to send texts to another specific user (and although it uses the other phones to bounce/pass the signal forward, a p2p message is only readable by the recipient. There may have been a mass text option as well. The 2 main advantages of it were that killing cell service in the AO didn't affect it. And apparently, unlike normal text messages etc. the Chi.gov couldn't use it against the users. Anyone recall the details/specifics of this? |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:01:24 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BTW, speaking of HK inspired ideas: Wasn't there some type of phone app they used based on a Bluetooth(?) mesh, that DOESN'T rely on cellular service? IIRC, it was something that used any other phone in range running the app, as a node, greatly extending the range. It could be (and was) used to send texts to another specific user (and although it uses the other phones to bounce/pass the signal forward, a p2p message is only readable by the recipient. There may have been a mass text option as well. The 2 main advantages of it were that killing cell service in the AO didn't affect it. And apparently, unlike normal text messages etc. the Chi.gov couldn't use it against the users. Anyone recall the details/specifics of this? I get that coverage can be overloaded... but even then something will get through eventually. We are not transmitting 4K videos. (Although you can do that too if you want) but a few bytes of intel can be invaluable. Every user who has a phone can install the Telegram messenger and is turned into a reporter and can provide a valuable service to the community. I've looked into every messenger, telegram is the only one that has a high or no limit of users in a group/channel. 200,000 and I doubt we will hit that number. Telegram channels are designed for millions and have no limit at all, so if you don't want to write anything, just subscribe to the channel in read-only mode (RattlesnakeRallyChannel). |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:03:31 AM EDT
[#21]
@txjim42
This is the thread you seek. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:05:44 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like GoTennas. I picked up a pair after reading posts and watching videos about them posted in other threads. They come in pairs. $125 on Amazon.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRIe0fma7wo |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:07:53 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like GoTennas. I picked up a pair after reading posts and watching videos about them posted in other threads. They come in pairs. $125 on Amazon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRIe0fma7wo |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:09:34 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bridgefy is a bluetooth mesh app that allows p2p messages and public broadcasts. Gotenna has more range but requires extra hardware. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
BTW, speaking of HK inspired ideas: Wasn't there some type of phone app they used based on a Bluetooth(?) mesh, that DOESN'T rely on cellular service? IIRC, it was something that used any other phone in range running the app, as a node, greatly extending the range. It could be (and was) used to send texts to another specific user (and although it uses the other phones to bounce/pass the signal forward, a p2p message is only readable by the recipient. There may have been a mass text option as well. The 2 main advantages of it were that killing cell service in the AO didn't affect it. And apparently, unlike normal text messages etc. the Chi.gov couldn't use it against the users. Anyone recall the details/specifics of this? The Gotenna Mesh is good for what it is, but the article I read, mentioned that this was something that uses smartphones Bluetooth to create the mesh which worked great in HK due to the density of the crowd. IIRC, the article mentioned some success sending texts to recipients clear across the island because there were enough phones running the app to bounce the message through. Should've bookmarked the article, 'cuz I can't remember where I read it, or the details/name of the app. Could be ideal in this case. Doesn't potentially take up bandwidth which folks may be using for livestreaming. Doesn't require purchasing additional hardware like the Gotenna. Cell service going down won't affect it. With the number of people there in a smallish area, range shouldn't be an issue, as with the protestors in HK, if there are a large enough number running it. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:09:57 AM EDT
[#25]
Disregard, this is incorrect. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:10:57 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bridgefy is a bluetooth mesh app that allows p2p messages and public broadcasts. Gotenna has more range but requires extra hardware. We *need* this tool, i.e. Telegram, with group messaging, so anyone reach 50K users with a single click, especially in these dire circumstances. Just think before you post, it's not a message to a single person but a massive twit-like post except there is no size limit. I haven't figured out yet if there is a way to timeout the group posts, appears the timeout feature (message self-destruct timer) exists only in Private Chats, correct me if I am wrong. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:12:04 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it's possible to create one big gotenna net, that'd really be what you guys in VA need. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:13:49 AM EDT
[#28]
Thank you the link @70satvert and ad_nauseam for doing this. I think this is important to this keep bumped so folks are aware of this.
I wouldn't put it past some tyrants to pressure LEA's, site owners, and/or to make false claims to disrupt organizational efforts/comms here. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:17:05 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank you @70satvert. I think this is important to this keep bumped so folks are aware of this. I wouldn't put it past some tyrants to pressure LEA's, site owners, and/or to make false claims to disrupt organizational efforts/comms here. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:19:55 AM EDT
[#30]
Bridgefy doesn't have good reviews. Gotenna, while costs, seems to work.
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:23:24 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank you @70satvert. I think this is important to this keep bumped so folks are aware of this. I wouldn't put it past some tyrants to pressure LEA's, site owners, and/or to make false claims to disrupt organizational efforts/comms here. In the longer, fast moving thread, folks have already mentioned not being able to send/receive text messages in large, crowded places like concerts and packed sporting events, simply from the nearby cell service being overloaded. People could definitely have similar issues here, depending on how many people end up in downtown Richmond on the 20th. Alternative comms are important, and why I'm thinking more along the lines of options that don't rely on cellular service. The Gotenna is definitely an option, but very likely one that won't be terribly widespread. An app that can simply be downloaded, turning the phone into a transceiver/node that's independent of cellular service could be a really powerful solution. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:28:24 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think it would be a good idea to limit data use as much as possible to allow for those live-streaming. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:38:54 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bridgefy is a bluetooth mesh app that allows p2p messages and public broadcasts. Gotenna has more range but requires extra hardware. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
BTW, speaking of HK inspired ideas: Wasn't there some type of phone app they used based on a Bluetooth(?) mesh, that DOESN'T rely on cellular service? IIRC, it was something that used any other phone in range running the app, as a node, greatly extending the range. It could be (and was) used to send texts to another specific user (and although it uses the other phones to bounce/pass the signal forward, a p2p message is only readable by the recipient. There may have been a mass text option as well. The 2 main advantages of it were that killing cell service in the AO didn't affect it. And apparently, unlike normal text messages etc. the Chi.gov couldn't use it against the users. Anyone recall the details/specifics of this? I searched "Hong Kong protesters Bluetooth app", and it looks like it IS Bridgefy that they're using. Has encrypted user-to-user mode, as well as unencrypted broadcast that will go to every Bridgefy app it can reach. Works well for the HK protests with a high density of users. Doesn't have anywhere near the range of a Gotenna (Bluetooth = ~300 ft, vs Gotenna's 1 - 1.5 miles LoS), but could be ideal for the Rally with enough users. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:46:58 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank you the link @70satvert and ad_nauseam for doing this. I think this is important to this keep bumped so folks are aware of this. I wouldn't put it past some tyrants to pressure LEA's, site owners, and/or to make false claims to disrupt organizational efforts/comms here. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:48:30 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Absolutely. We need fall back points. would not surprise me at all. it's a high-profile situation, very visible. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:49:00 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bridgefy doesn't have good reviews. Gotenna, while costs, seems to work. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:50:12 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not just intentional actions. In the longer, fast moving thread, folks have already mentioned not being able to send/receive text messages in large, crowded places like concerts and packed sporting events, simply from the nearby cell service being overloaded. People could definitely have similar issues here, depending on how many people end up in downtown Richmond on the 20th. Alternative comms are important, and why I'm thinking more along the lines of options that don't rely on cellular service. The Gotenna is definitely an option, but very likely one that won't be terribly widespread. An app that can simply be downloaded, turning the phone into a transceiver/node that's independent of cellular service could be a really powerful solution. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:54:42 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: does anyone have a Gotenna they can bring? |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:55:13 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol good job putting that out there on the free wide web 
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:57:51 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks again. I searched "Hong Kong protesters Bluetooth app", and it looks like it IS Bridgefy that they're using. Has encrypted user-to-user mode, as well as unencrypted broadcast that will go to every Bridgefy app it can reach. Works well for the HK protests with a high density of users. Doesn't have anywhere near the range of a Gotenna (Bluetooth = ~300 ft, vs Gotenna's 1 - 1.5 miles LoS), but could be ideal for the Rally with enough users. I will experiment with it. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 1:07:28 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
please post a review of what's best/optimum for us. Telegram is not end-all but it just one tool in the arsenal. we can't rely on the forum alone, or on radios. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Not just intentional actions. In the longer, fast moving thread, folks have already mentioned not being able to send/receive text messages in large, crowded places like concerts and packed sporting events, simply from the nearby cell service being overloaded. People could definitely have similar issues here, depending on how many people end up in downtown Richmond on the 20th. Alternative comms are important, and why I'm thinking more along the lines of options that don't rely on cellular service. The Gotenna is definitely an option, but very likely one that won't be terribly widespread. An app that can simply be downloaded, turning the phone into a transceiver/node that's independent of cellular service could be a really powerful solution. The experiences that folks have already encountered with cellular service in crowds leaves me looking for alternatives. If the Gotenna was more common, it would appear to be a solid option, but I don't think it's very widespread amongst our folks (although a few more have bought them since they were mentioned in the main thread). Baofengs seem like 1 avenue, as it seems like quite a lot of arfcommers have them, but one thing they all probably have are cellphones. Being able to use them for mass comms broadcasts and encrypted private comms, completely independent of relying on cellular service seems like a great idea. There are definitely a few interesting things to learn from the protesters in Hong Kong (comms, defeating facial recognition etc.). |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 1:22:33 AM EDT
[#42]
Exactly...
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Posted: 1/10/2020 1:24:56 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There will be dozens at a minimum. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: does anyone have a Gotenna they can bring? The much better range means it could be an ideal comms options for organizers/leaders. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 1:32:50 AM EDT
[#44]
makes sense.
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Posted: 1/10/2020 8:30:03 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have found you can either be a mesh node or be in text mode. Not both simultaneously though. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 9:16:01 AM EDT
[#46]
...
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Posted: 1/10/2020 9:25:45 AM EDT
[#47]
Thanks for the info
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Posted: 1/10/2020 9:37:56 AM EDT
[#48]
If anyone is going to have a HF portable would you post a 20 and 40 meter freq, I would like to try and keep up on your progress.
Be safe. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 9:40:34 AM EDT
[#49]
There was a supposedly really good mesh networking app for phones that used the wifi as a mesh network. Evidently it got borked up somehow and so people that have downloaded it recently (like me) can't get it to work. That would have been ideal.
I've also downloaded Signal as it is another end-to-end encrypted app for texting, voice, and video. The text part can be used with the goTenna unit. The goTenna units don't have the bandwidth to support voice or video. The cell network on game day probably won't either. It appears there will be 100-200 goTenna units there. Hopefully we can distribute those around enough to get coverage of the whole rally area. Obviously, the goTenna mesh approach is only going to be good for a mile or two around the rally center. There are ways to send texts to everyone within range but it takes a lot of the available bandwidth so it's important to only use that when needed. As we get closer to game day, we'll probably set up a burner with a goTenna unit, and post the random ID somewhere so that if you needed to send a secure text to ops, you'll know what address to send it to. There's a tradeoff between getting information out to the widest number of "our people" while limiting the ability of our adversaries to clog up the works. I guess we'll see how well we did on the 20th. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 9:41:00 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mobile devices will likely be inoperable. Hasn't this been discussed......ad naseum? Off grid, secure, encrypted, and each device acts as a repeater. You can also be anonymous. |
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