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Posted: 5/8/2004 10:20:25 PM EST
I got this as a gift from my younger sisters at Christmas. I'm really more interested in selling it off for gun money, so maybe one of you can let me know what it may be and what it's worth. So far I suspect it of being a Waffen SS NCO visor cap, but I've seen several other possibilities and could be wrong. Also, if you know what it is, maybe an idea of what it might be worth. Pictures are below. In case the print inside is unintellegible, it says "Holters Uniformen, Berlin Germany", with a little picture of a nazi guy in a hat. Your help is appreciated!



Link Posted: 5/8/2004 10:31:58 PM EST
Well, it's obviously a crusher with white piping, that I know. I know if they had pink piping, they were usually tank commanders. Jochen Peiper wore a pink one off the top of my head. Let me ask around and maybe I'll be able to get an answer on some of the WWII forums I post on.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 10:33:19 PM EST
I believe it is a hat with a skull and crossbones on it.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 10:33:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 10:36:36 PM EST by smokycity]
I would say you are correct with the Waffen-SS NCO cap. Your's seems to be missing the eagale/condor cap device above the Totenkof (sp?)(the deaths head symbol). The link I added is a reproduction site for re-enactors and collectors.

www.lostbattalions.com/german33-45/ss/sscaps/ssM37crush.html

Edited to add: it's a M1937 Field Cap.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 10:43:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By smokycity:
I would say you are correct with the Waffen-SS NCO cap. Your's seems to be missing the eagale/condor cap device above the Totenkof (sp?)(the deaths head symbol). The link I added is a reproduction site for re-enactors and collectors.

www.lostbattalions.com/german33-45/ss/sscaps/ssM37crush.html

Edited to add: it's a M1937 Field Cap.



Yeah, I've been to that link you provided before. Based on the shape and color of the repro though, it almost leads me away from thinking thats what it is. I don't know. I also saw a repro of a generals cap that looked IDENTICAL to the actual hat. I'm really looking for someone who can say, "oh yeah, I'm a collector and this is definitely what it is. Judging by repros seems to be pretty unreliable. It is missing the eagle as you mentioned, but i'm not sure if that will affect value or not, as it looks like the eagle was an add on. The totenkopf seems to have been there from the factory, though I can say for sure.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 2:17:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/9/2004 2:22:24 PM EST by panzersergeant]
It looks like a Waffen SS NCO cap with white infantry piping. I believe it is a custom made hat; it was not unusual for SS NCOs and officers to have uniform items custom made, epecially during their early existence when they were more of a private political police force. At any rate, I do not believe it was government issue. It does look genuine for the period, however.

Edited to add Holters Uniformen is/was a private tailor in Berlin.

Panzer Out
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 7:53:13 PM EST
Awesome Panzer, thank you. You seem to know about this stuff. That said, do you have any idea what the hat may be worth or where I might be able to sell it, preferably online? I live in a small town, so the chances of selling locally are pretty slight.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 12:49:18 AM EST
My gut tells me it's a fake. It's made too badly. No German tailor would let something that bad leave his shop, especially if it was private purchase. Even if he had the worst grade of late war uniform cloth to work with, the construction would be first rate.

Remember, this wasn't issue, someone paid for it. Would you pay for a hat that poorly made?

Where did your sister get it?

G
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 1:06:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By grognard1:
My gut tells me it's a fake. It's made too badly. No German tailor would let something that bad leave his shop, especially if it was private purchase. Even if he had the worst grade of late war uniform cloth to work with, the construction would be first rate.

Remember, this wasn't issue, someone paid for it. Would you pay for a hat that poorly made?

Where did your sister get it?

G



I agree- the leather and cloth just look too new. No points of wear, and poor stitching, in that it's visible. The sweatband's leather does not look like any patent leather I've ever seen for sweatbands. It's also rumpled-looking- a good sweatband should be smooth, unless there were water damage, and I see none. Most relics I've ever seen look at least old in the thread or cloth.

Also, was not there some sort of eagle (Reichsadler?) that went above the Totenkopf? I see no wear points or holes for the studs.

Somebody more specifically knowledgeable should chime in on this, but I can only offer my general knowledge of this uniform and of tailoring/leatherwork in general. It looks like something made for a reenactor.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 9:28:13 PM EST
There actually is pin holes where the eagle was. It is also visibly cleaner in the shape of the eagle underneath where the pin once was. My picture may be a bit deceptive as it makes the hat look unusually bright and clean, since I used a flash maybe. Also, the hat has visible sweat stains inside, which may also explain the rumply leather inside. As to poor stitching, I really would not know good from bad. I've tried to find someone locally that knows this stuff to no avail. My sisters picked it up at a local (Denver, CO) Antique shop. The lady who owned that specific booth was apparently crying and said that her husband, the actual proprietor of that booth was killed in a shoot out a few nights earlier. She was trying to liquidate his products to pay for the funeral. The man who owned the shop vouched for the late dealers credibilty and stated he was a well respected dealer in WW2 relics. How far that goes I really can't say since I wasn't there. I've seen some knock offs of armbands and patches and such and all were pretty obvious. If this is a fake, as a novice, I would judge it to be a well contructed one, and going the extra mile to add the stamp of a legitimate German tailor seems far fetched to me, but i don't know much obviously. I'm having trouble rectifying the above two opinions with that of Panzer earlier on who said it looked authentic. It would be nice if someone with some definite knowledge would weigh in and maybe provide a link or some idea of how he reached his conclusion. Somehow I doubt that will happen, but i do appreciate the help I've received thus far. Thanks guys.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 10:13:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 10:14:13 PM EST by Atencio]
It is impossible to tell by looking at it on the computer if it is real or not. The replica stuff being made now is excellent quality with original manufacturers labels, etc on them. You can even buy replicas that look like they are old. If you really want to find out if it is real and what it is worth I would suggest you ask dealers who sell this kind of stuff so they can give you some kind of professional idea.
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