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Posted: 5/5/2004 8:27:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 12:28:59 PM EST by wiggy762]
Not bashing or race baiting, just serious observations. For instance, most of the Arab countries that we have sent arms to, we have also sent military and civilian technicians to teach the recipient countries the use and maintenance requirements of these arms. As some of these are weapons systems and quite complex, the terms for the stay of these technicians can be quite long....but only in the Arab countries are civilian techs hired full-time by the host country to continue maintaining these weapons.

This is not a situation where they just need more training, in fact these techs have been required to teach other contract employees how to maintain these weapons. Most of these contract employees are foreign laborers, brought into the country to perform menial tasks that are 'beneath' an average Arab male.

This attitude is most prevalent in Saudi Arabia where with a huge Royal Family (most everyone in metro areas) and vast amounts of OPEC money flooding the country, most every man is able to live quite comfortably without the drudgery of working for a living. They have imported huge numbers of foreigners to take care of every 'distasteful' aspect of life.

This attitude permeats into the Armed Forces of most every Arab country. While each soldier or pilot may think of themselves as the next Saladin, able to destroy the Christian Infidel Invaders in a Glorious Jihad (tm), in reality they are unlikely to be able to field strip and clean their personal weapon without the constant supervision of their Filipino or Jordanian 'batman' showing them how.

Link Posted: 5/5/2004 8:28:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 8:30:50 AM EST by sherm8404]
Algebra?


Hot ass belly dancers?


Fodder for experimental weapons testing and advancement?

Link Posted: 5/5/2004 8:29:16 AM EST
I'm just gonna bite my tounge and let this one go w/o further comment.


Link Posted: 5/5/2004 8:30:18 AM EST
convienience store and apartment managing?
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 8:30:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By sherm8404:
Algerbra?



And not one damned thing since.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 8:31:00 AM EST
Target Practice
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 8:31:34 AM EST
getting threads locked.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 8:31:43 AM EST
Cheb Khaled did some nice backing vocals on that Sting song.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 8:32:56 AM EST
Their youth seems to have rock throwing down to a science. Especially in Israel.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 8:33:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 8:33:35 AM EST by thebeekeeper1]
Rule 1--please don't generalize in this manner.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 10:48:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 10:48:15 AM EST by thebeekeeper1]
Unlocked pending title change.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 12:20:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By wiggy762:

This attitude permeats into the Armed Forces of most every Arab country. While each soldier or pilot may think of themselves as the next Saladin, able to destroy the Christian Infidel Invaders in a Glorious Jihad (tm), in reality they are unlikely to be able to field strip and clean their personal weapon without the constant supervision of their Filipino or Jordanian 'batman' showing them how.

Dumbasses



Been there and seen that. Couldn't agree more.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 12:23:30 PM EST
It's completely true. The Saudis have a huge problem on their hands. Their immense wealth makes them think their shit doesn't stink and almost all but the easiest and most glamorous work is beneath them. They have both 32% unemployment and exploding birthrates. One way to cope with this and keep their people occupied is to send them to religious schools where they become religious watchdogs over Saudi society.

The other way is has been to "Saudize" their economy, the gradual shift of some jobs normally held by foreigners to ordinary Sauds. I'm not talking about professional jobs Saudis must import, like engineers and so on. I'm talking about jewelry salesmen and taxi drivers. They're having difficulty in doing even this, because if a job involves ANY sort of cleaning, say washing a taxi or cleaning the display case glass, it's automatically considered shit work no Saudi man wants to do.

And women? Needless to say, there aren't many options for them. Their work is restricted to jobs where they will only come in contact with other women.

Read this site by a Saudi man who lived in the West for a while. It's a very, very interesting look at Saudi society and quite funny, too.

muttawa.blogspot.com/
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 12:27:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 12:31:06 PM EST by sick]

Originally Posted By sherm8404:
Algebra?


Hot ass belly dancers?


Fodder for experimental weapons testing and advancement?



Fixed
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 12:30:29 PM EST
Thanks for the unlock. Things are better all over.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 12:33:31 PM EST
True, true.

Like here we don't wait tables, raise our own children, or cut the grass. We hire some illegal alien to do such worthless tasks.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 12:40:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:02:09 PM EST
Cheb Khalid is either Algerian or Moroccan, as that is where Rai music comes from.

Saudis don't alllow belly dancing either, only folkloric totally covered troupe performances, performed by men.

Hot belly dancers are from Egypt or Lebanon.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:05:38 PM EST
As, like most oil states, they have not developed a sustainable economic base, in another 20 years (and no oil) they will be back to tents and camels.

Andy
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:12:39 PM EST
Paul,

I understand that you are in California, right?

Please do not sully the good citizens of the USA with blanket observations developed on the Left Coast. We are not the probelm, Californians are. (sorry)

Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:22:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By wiggy762:
This attitude permeats into the Armed Forces of most every Arab country. While each soldier or pilot may think of themselves as the next Saladin, able to destroy the Christian Infidel Invaders in a Glorious Jihad (tm), in reality they are unlikely to be able to field strip and clean their personal weapon without the constant supervision of their Filipino or Jordanian 'batman' showing them how.





This could be a good reason for their military incompetance. In Gulf War I the French requested to be taken out from under the Saudies, because they thought they were incompetant, and when we let the Saudies recapture Khafji, so much gunfire missed high pilots thought it was aimed at them.


Another story I heard was about a SF soldier who was with a tank unit sent to train the Egyptians (they aren't Arabs, but same mindset). The tankers and the SF guys worked for weeks on translating manuals into Egyptian. After they got to Egypt and passed them out, the Egyptian officers took the manuals away.

They didn't want the enlisted men to read (most couldn't anyway), or know more than just their job, because they didn't want the enlisted men to be "better" then the officers. Total caste system. Consequently, the tank unit couldn't do much to help the Egyptians get better. And thus the Egpytian armor force can't fight it's way out of a wet paper bag.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:29:30 PM EST
I hate to overgeneralize, but I've found this to be 100% true. We had a bunch of Saudis training in our IOBC class before the Gulf War and without exception they were lazy hypocrites. One had his wife come out to our field exercises and pick him up in their rental car so he could spend the nights back in his hotel. Another got busted for DUI and they all hung out at the strip clubs every night they had free.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:36:13 PM EST
This is very true and quite to the facts, further more the Saudis do not believe in allowing the lower class perform certain task. Therefore they hire foreigners to do the dirty work.

If you ever get the opportunity to greet one, just say.

Rehtak seyaara wa shaklak khara.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:44:18 PM EST
An interesting article here: Saudi Unempolyment

Link Posted: 5/5/2004 6:20:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 6:21:42 PM EST by Johnny_Reno]

Originally Posted By Spade:

Another story I heard was about a SF soldier who was with a tank unit sent to train the Egyptians (they aren't Arabs, but same mindset). The tankers and the SF guys worked for weeks on translating manuals into Egyptian. After they got to Egypt and passed them out, the Egyptian officers took the manuals away.




Egyptians are Arabs....and they don't speak Egyptian. They speak Arabic.



They didn't want the enlisted men to read (most couldn't anyway), or know more than just their job, because they didn't want the enlisted men to be "better" then the officers. Total caste system. Consequently, the tank unit couldn't do much to help the Egyptians get better. And thus the Egpytian armor force can't fight it's way out of a wet paper bag.



While I won't spend any time praising the effectiveness of the typical Arab army, I would say that your statement is not 100 percent accurate. The Egyptian Army gave the Israelis quite a shock when Anwar Sadat chased them halfway across the Sinai some time ago.


I think the biggest problem facing most Arab armies is that the leadership is not placed or promoted due to demonstrated competency. The officers are selected and promoted based on their perceived loyalty to the current ruler. Hence, when they go up against a real army, they frequently get the snot kicked out of them.

When I was still on active duty, I had the opportunity to read several reports of our SF types cross training with their SF counterparts in some of the arab armies. The reports were less than glowing. Shortly afterwards, I was in a class with a DEVGRU Seal and he made mention of previously spending some time in the region doing the same sort of training. I asked him what he thought of their SF guys and he simply stated "They're morons."
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 6:28:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 6:32:49 PM EST by llanero]
Although they are Persian and not Arab, is this why Iran has a whole fleet of F-16 jets that they can't use since the US support chain left in '79? If so, maybe it's a good thing they have this mindset so IF the hardcore islamic miltants ever do take over Saudi Arabia, the western military technology they have over there will rot in the desert.

As far as the "they're morons" statement in the previous post, a friend's father who is in the petrochemical industry said the exact same thing about the Saudis he had to work with when he was over there in the '80s.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 6:37:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 6:50:44 PM EST by Johnny_Reno]
Dang it. Dupe post.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 6:43:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By llanero:
Although they are Persian and not Arab, is this why Iran has a whole fleet of F-16 jets that they can't use since the US support chain left in '79? If so, maybe it's a good thing they have this mindset so IF the hardcore islamic miltants ever do take over Saudi Arabia, the western military technology they have over there will rot in the desert.




They Iranians have F-14s, not F-16s.

The main reason for their unservicibility is that the main supplier of parts has refused to do business with them. Wanna guess who that would be?

That's why you now see them flying non-US airframes.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 6:49:37 PM EST
Before 9/11 we used to get a lot of Saudi mil. guys over for freefall training. They really werent interested in learning emergency procedures they just said it was all in Gods hands anyway.
They totally sucked and would never listen to what you told them.
They're probably all dead now.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 7:42:06 PM EST
Who was that was telling about how they select pilots? It's not how good you are, its how royal you are.

Another story I heard about how their bodyguards were being trained. Sniper school, class went fine. Time for FTX, they refused. It was too hot.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 3:04:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 3:07:19 AM EST by Cincinnatus]
Had several Saudis in my class at the Basic School.
They didn't exactly like exertion....

[Saudi accent]"Field Day? No, I do not Field Day."[/Saudi accent]

[Saudi accent]"What is this 'Hump' you speak of? I do not hump. That is why we have Jeeps!"[/Saudi accent]





Link Posted: 5/6/2004 3:39:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 4:34:14 AM EST
we all know stereotypes are bad but those of us who have worked, and trained with arabs know the truth. and its little suprise why any western nation <even france> could easily destroy any arab country if they committed themselves militarily.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 5:11:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
Another got busted for DUI and they all hung out at the strip clubs every night they had free.

sounds like my kind of a-rab.

i'll take him over those religious wacko a-rabs any day of the week.



What you don't understand is that those jackasses ARE the religious wacko a-rabs. When I was attending DS "A" school at MINSY, one of the classes had several Saudi CPO's. These Saudi CPO's were caught cheating on several of the exams, which if a US sailor or Marine were caught one time would have meant immediate dismissal, but political correctness reared it's ugly head and they were allowed to continue. Several of them were also arrested for solicitation, but they still got on their knees 5 times a day to pray to their moon god. Those boys are AFU.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 5:19:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
Another got busted for DUI and they all hung out at the strip clubs every night they had free.

sounds like my kind of a-rab.

i'll take him over those religious wacko a-rabs any day of the week.



Problem is, they all TALKED just like the religious whacko Arabs and looked down their noses at westerners for not being Muslims...
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 10:08:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
Another got busted for DUI and they all hung out at the strip clubs every night they had free.

sounds like my kind of a-rab.

i'll take him over those religious wacko a-rabs any day of the week.



That's the problem. A bunch of the 9-11 terrorists spent their off-time at strip clubs too. Even Atta went along but he would not look at the girls (cause he was a fag).

GunLvr
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 10:57:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By Johnny_Reno:


Egyptians are Arabs....and they don't speak Egyptian. They speak Arabic.

While I won't spend any time praising the effectiveness of the typical Arab army, I would say that your statement is not 100 percent accurate. The Egyptian Army gave the Israelis quite a shock when Anwar Sadat chased them halfway across the Sinai some time ago.





1)Didn't know that. Thought all the North Africans were from a different racial group.

2)Pick up a book called "The Yom Kippur War". It was written by The Insight Team of the Sunday Times. Basically the Arab forces did well because of numbers and suprise. They lost because the Isrealis fought well, and the Arabs fought like idiots. Total lack of adapdability and initiative.

Link Posted: 5/6/2004 12:10:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By Arlis:
Who was that was telling about how they select pilots? It's not how good you are, its how royal you are.
.



Ain't THAT the truth, remember that Saudi F15 Pilot a way back who got the 'credit' for greasing those 2 Iranian Phantoms? Related to a 'Royal' so he did it… IIRC it was his Pakistani wingman who did the business.

ANdy
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 1:21:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By Johnny_Reno:
They Iranians have F-14s, not F-16s.




Dangit, you're right. The order for the F-16s didn't get through before the Shah's overthrow.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 2:03:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 2:04:24 PM EST by Johnny_Reno]

Originally Posted By Spade:

Originally Posted By Johnny_Reno:


Egyptians are Arabs....and they don't speak Egyptian. They speak Arabic.

While I won't spend any time praising the effectiveness of the typical Arab army, I would say that your statement is not 100 percent accurate. The Egyptian Army gave the Israelis quite a shock when Anwar Sadat chased them halfway across the Sinai some time ago.





1)Didn't know that. Thought all the North Africans were from a different racial group.

2)Pick up a book called "The Yom Kippur War". It was written by The Insight Team of the Sunday Times. Basically the Arab forces did well because of numbers and suprise. They lost because the Isrealis fought well, and the Arabs fought like idiots. Total lack of adapdability and initiative.




The Egyptians did so well in the Sinai because:

1) They surprised the crap out of the Israelis. The Egyptians used some inventive thinking when it came to breaching the Israeli defenses and crossing the Suez. Who would have ever thought that a water cannon would have a tactical use?

2) New Soviet weapons - I don't recall the exact nomenclature, but the Egyptians soldiers ran into battle carrying "suitcases". In those suitcases were Sagger anti-tank missiles. They worked too. They also brought a new and very good air defense umbrella with them (ZSUs). The Israelis took a hell of a beating on their air and armor forces before they were able to get the battle turned around and back in their favor. It's a good thing too because the Israelis were in the process of breaking out their Jericho missiles....and the warheads on the Jerichos are...well..."special."
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 2:32:51 PM EST
Good thing too.

Back then the Israeli public weren't a bunch of pansies. Dachau was still fresh in their minds and they would have used nukes without reservation. They used to kick ass, as it was all about survival.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 2:36:34 PM EST
The ideal job in the gulf states is to get a government job. Starts at 9-10 in the morning, ends around 2 p.m. The bribes are expected and quite good.

To get my driver's license we had to bribe three seperate guys, the top one got cash AND a case of Johnny Walker black label. Seems over there that besides cash JWB is a normal currency of bribery.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 2:41:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 2:42:36 PM EST by EricTheHun]
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