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Posted: 10/31/2009 4:45:48 PM EST
I thought we were hunting them and the Taliban to the end of the earth? What happened? Are we there already? Seems we have lost our will to fight at least politacly speaking.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 6:09:30 PM EST
AQ takes it orders from the Saudis, the Saudis are working for the CIA. The Taliban are the fall guys, did you not get the memo. This is about oil and arms..Money. That is all.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 6:21:44 PM EST
Hard to fight a war without money, and we have no money.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 8:08:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2009 8:10:21 PM EST by MIDGAPATRIOT]
We don't "hunt" people who work for our "friends".
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 8:09:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By dirtface:
AQ takes it orders from the Saudis, the Saudis are working for the CIA. The Taliban are the fall guys, did you not get the memo. This is about oil and arms..Money. That is all.


THIS +10000000000000000000000000
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 8:11:33 PM EST
Al Qaeda is in Western Pakistan.

Pakistan is a large nation. Pakistan will not grant ISAF access into the area other than UAV unmanned predator drones that they publicly deny and condemn. The population of Pakistan and even members of its Government and Military support the Taliban. The Taliban refused to cooperate with the U.S. after 9/11 in capturing UBL, Zawahiri, or the rest of AQ's leadership so we had to invade Afghanistan and overthrow them and they are now firmly in league with AQ. Pakistan on the intenational stage presents an image of cooperation while they play both sides for their own benefit.

To get ISAF access to Pakistan would require nothing short of an invasion. We would then need enough troops to prevent flight from Pakistan by AQ, fight the Pakistan military, and secure all their nuclear sites without any chance whatsoever of losing a single nuke. We'd have to do all of that while still maintaining our commitment in Iraq and being ready to face other potential challenges like North Korea, China, and Russia. Such an action would require a massive Draft and massive increase in military production, which are two things the American public would not allow.

Even if we could get access into Pakistan unrestricted and kill or capture every member of AQ it wouldn't destroy AQ, because AQ is a terrorist movement. You can't destroy a terrorist movement anymore than you can communism. It will always be present so you have to look BIG PICTURE.

BIG PICTURE = COIN (Counter Insurgency).

The theory is that you can nation build and form stable enough governments that will in turn fight as your proxy against the growth of radical terrorist groups in their country. You hope that those nations become prosperous enough overtime that they serve as "beacons" of enlightenment to the rest of the region and that other nations and their citizens embrace the west as they have. Over a period of generations you decrease the number of potential recruits for terrorist organization, increase cooperation with nations throughout the region, and in turn reduce the risk of another 9/11 attack.

Short of dropping nuclear weapons on the entire middle east and then pissing off Russia and China by doing so starting WWIII where everyone is going to die it's our only viable option.

I've looked at it and thought about it a GREAT deal. COIN is the only way to go. As for revenge against Bin Laden and Zawahiri we'll eventually get lucky and get them with a drone strike or they'll either be killed by rivals or simply die of old age. Sooner or later though they'll be dead.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 9:00:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By SilentType:
Al Qaeda is in Western Pakistan.

Pakistan is a large nation. Pakistan will not grant ISAF access into the area other than UAV unmanned predator drones that they publicly deny and condemn. The population of Pakistan and even members of its Government and Military support the Taliban. The Taliban refused to cooperate with the U.S. after 9/11 in capturing UBL, Zawahiri, or the rest of AQ's leadership so we had to invade Afghanistan and overthrow them and they are now firmly in league with AQ. Pakistan on the intenational stage presents an image of cooperation while they play both sides for their own benefit.

To get ISAF access to Pakistan would require nothing short of an invasion. We would then need enough troops to prevent flight from Pakistan by AQ, fight the Pakistan military, and secure all their nuclear sites without any chance whatsoever of losing a single nuke. We'd have to do all of that while still maintaining our commitment in Iraq and being ready to face other potential challenges like North Korea, China, and Russia. Such an action would require a massive Draft and massive increase in military production, which are two things the American public would not allow.

Even if we could get access into Pakistan unrestricted and kill or capture every member of AQ it wouldn't destroy AQ, because AQ is a terrorist movement. You can't destroy a terrorist movement anymore than you can communism. It will always be present so you have to look BIG PICTURE.

BIG PICTURE = COIN (Counter Insurgency).

The theory is that you can nation build and form stable enough governments that will in turn fight as your proxy against the growth of radical terrorist groups in their country. You hope that those nations become prosperous enough overtime that they serve as "beacons" of enlightenment to the rest of the region and that other nations and their citizens embrace the west as they have. Over a period of generations you decrease the number of potential recruits for terrorist organization, increase cooperation with nations throughout the region, and in turn reduce the risk of another 9/11 attack.

Short of dropping nuclear weapons on the entire middle east and then pissing off Russia and China by doing so starting WWIII where everyone is going to die it's our only viable option.

I've looked at it and thought about it a GREAT deal. COIN is the only way to go. As for revenge against Bin Laden and Zawahiri we'll eventually get lucky and get them with a drone strike or they'll either be killed by rivals or simply die of old age. Sooner or later though they'll be dead.


He's dead, most likely been dead for a while.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:54:14 AM EST
Very interesting. The oil part is a givin. With out it we die as a nation. Every thing and anything in your home on your person or in your mouth is a product of petroleum. If not out right made out of it then in the tractor trailer, train or plane that got it to you/us.

Having watched and studied the middle east and the current events over the last 20 years i think the whole WW 3 thing is already in motion. Its started most just dont want to open there eyes and see it. We grow weaker by the day as a nation and over time this will be our achilles heal that some one or group there of will exploit. 9-11 was simply a probe if you will to test our resolve and shift the focus to a area we will be more vulnerable at. Hell we drag our feet long enough and the technology catches up to us thats when we are truly not safe any more as a nation.

As WW 2 taught us technology and resolve are key to victory. Oh yeah and the draft. Folks wont go for that until it is shoved down there throat by another major attack or the Iranians or N. Koreans glass somebody. Thanks again for the input gentelman.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:59:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By dirtface:
AQ takes it orders from the Saudis, the Saudis are working for the CIA. The Taliban are the fall guys, did you not get the memo. This is about oil and arms..Money. That is all.

You ate paint chips as a kid, didn't you?
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 8:13:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By MK262:

Originally Posted By dirtface:
AQ takes it orders from the Saudis, the Saudis are working for the CIA. The Taliban are the fall guys, did you not get the memo. This is about oil and arms..Money. That is all.

You ate paint chips as a kid, didn't you?



MK... don't worry. Arkham asylum is piped into Echelon and will find them in moments.
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