Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 5/19/2005 3:01:39 PM EDT
Washington Times

Air France to buy Boeing's 777 planes


SEATTLE (AP) -- Air France said yesterday it plans to replace part of its aging fleet of cargo planes with Boeing's new 777 freighter, but the airline would not say whether it will become the launch customer for the proposed new airplane.
Boeing Co. spokesman Marc Birtel confirmed that Air France is among the airlines interested in the new plane, but he would not speculate on when the French airline might bring the airplane into its fleet.
Air France spokesman Jean-Claude Couturier said the 777 freighter is the favored option to replace its eight Boeing 747-200s. But Air France would not comment on a report in financial daily La Tribune that the carrier is about to become Boeing's first customer by ordering seven of the 777 freighters.


Well crap, that's stupid - the Boeing news service is just picking up on an article published on 26 March.


Link Posted: 5/19/2005 3:02:42 PM EDT
No way. Impossible. Incroyable.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 3:03:12 PM EDT
well this is indeed very very strange, you'd think that they would've bought converted A330's or even 340's? Is this an olive branch? Or is it keep your friends close and your enemies closer?
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 3:11:22 PM EDT
I heard supposedly that the new Airbus was superior to the 777. If even the French can see a good plane, it must be good. Better not tell the Frenchies who are riding it though, they'll have an anurism and drown in their wine and cheese.

Ben
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 3:12:21 PM EDT
Ha

777>A380
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 3:37:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2005 3:42:36 PM EDT by DOW]
Wow, it's legit. Whole article follows.
Linky

Second article from different source

SEATTLE (AP) -- Air France said yesterday it plans to replace part of its aging fleet of cargo planes with Boeing's new 777 freighter, but the airline would not say whether it will become the launch customer for the proposed new airplane.
Boeing Co. spokesman Marc Birtel confirmed that Air France is among the airlines interested in the new plane, but he would not speculate on when the French airline might bring the airplane into its fleet.
Air France spokesman Jean-Claude Couturier said the 777 freighter is the favored option to replace its eight Boeing 747-200s. But Air France would not comment on a report in financial daily La Tribune that the carrier is about to become Boeing's first customer by ordering seven of the 777 freighters.
Chicago-based Boeing said in November that it would begin offering a 777 freighter to customers, aiming to put the airplane into service by the end of 2008. But the company, which makes commercial airplanes in the Seattle area, has yet to snag a launch customer that would make the new freighter program a reality.
The 777 freighter would be based on the passenger version of the long-range 777-200LR, which is scheduled to enter service in early 2006. The freighter would be able to carry 222,000 pounds of cargo up to 6,400 miles.
Rival Airbus SAS has said its new "superjumbo" A380 freighter will be able to carry 341,000 pounds of cargo the same distance. It also is scheduled to enter service in 2008.
Boeing's biggest freighter offering is the 747-400ER, which could carry 248,000 pounds of cargo 5,700 miles.
Analyst Richard Aboulafia with the Teal Group said a key advantage of the 777 freighter for commercial airlines such as Air France is that it has just two engines, compared with four engines for the A380 and the 747 freighters. That could be a big cost savings for an airline that doesn't need as much space as the bigger planes offer.
But he said the 777 freighter could steal business away from airlines who might otherwise buy Boeing's 747 freighter, at the same time as the A380 freighter is squeezing 747 business with airlines interested in more cargo space.
"You're getting into the 747's niche and that's probably the biggest single complication behind introducing the 777 freighter," Mr. Aboulafia said.
The A380 freighter already has won orders from United Parcel Service Inc. and FedEx Corp., and some analysts say the big airplane has huge potential for ferrying goods around the world. Meanwhile, Boeing's 747 program has become increasingly reliant on cargo orders, having seen very little interest in the passenger version of the jumbo jet in recent years.
Mr. Birtel said Boeing believes the 777 freighter will complement, rather than compete against, its 747 offering.
Air France -- now part of Air France-KLM SA, the world's largest airline -- also is looking to replace four of its larger 747 freighters, which could provide another opening for Airbus.
Although Air France has ordered 10 A380 passenger jets, Mr. Couturier suggested that a decision on whether to buy "superjumbo" freighters was some way off.
"Air France has not yet given any consideration to the A380," he said.
An Airbus spokeswoman did not immediately return calls seeking comment.




Link Posted: 5/19/2005 3:38:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CFII:
Ha

777>A380



+1
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 5:15:47 PM EDT
Where is that Limey Boeing basher…
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 5:17:30 PM EDT
In other news, the Russians are buying Super Hornets.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 6:23:27 PM EDT
I heard that Air France was going to use Super Hornets to replace their 747's...


Originally Posted By raven:
In other news, the Russians are buying Super Hornets.

Link Posted: 5/19/2005 6:24:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
Where is that Limey Boeing basher…



[shhh - he's Irish, and proud of it.]
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 6:29:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
Where is that Limey Boeing basher…



Link Posted: 5/19/2005 6:30:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AeroE:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
Where is that Limey Boeing basher…



[shhh - he's Irish, and proud of it.]



Then is likely to be real irritated with that Limey crack…

Sorry...
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 6:32:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
Where is that Limey Boeing basher…






Think it's past his bedtime. Tag for the morning.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 6:41:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
Where is that Limey Boeing basher…


WHere IS THat LImey BOeing BAsher...
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 6:48:50 PM EDT
Airfrance flys a 777 daily into Houston at about 1400 when I get to work. I have yet to figure that one out.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 7:05:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 7:09:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
It comes down to economics. Cost per pound per mile to operate.

In this respect, the 777 is at the very top of the heap, with very little direct competition.



Ah. Money talks.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 7:19:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 7:23:05 PM EDT
So the sky isn't falling on Boeing?
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 7:55:56 PM EDT
A340 has lousy climb out! Just can't a Boeing,hell Viet Nam has what,6 now or on order,plus some 787s on order too.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:22:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Plus the damn 777's aren't made from crackers and glue like the Airbus designs and will last a few years.


No... the tail breaking off in flight IS pilot error
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:45:40 PM EDT
Perhaps it's simply a case that , Air France has decided that some of its needs and this particular job can be best met at best cost by Boeing products, and some of its needs best served by Airbus products. Good for Boeing, and good for Airbus.

What's the problem?

NTM
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:48:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2005 8:49:30 PM EDT by CFII]

Originally Posted By BulletBait:

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Plus the damn 777's aren't made from crackers and glue like the Airbus designs and will last a few years.


No... the tail breaking off in flight IS pilot error



Well, from the tapes and documents, as well as Airbus A300 pilots comments, its 2 fold. Yes, the AA co pilot broke the tail off. However, there we NO WARNINGS or placarded limitations given by airbus for control manipulation above a certain airspeed. The pilot reverted back to basic flight training, and the aircraft did not like it.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 9:48:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2005 9:49:27 PM EDT by raven]

Originally Posted By Manic_Moran:
Perhaps it's simply a case that , Air France has decided that some of its needs and this particular job can be best met at best cost by Boeing products, and some of its needs best served by Airbus products. Good for Boeing, and good for Airbus.

What's the problem?

NTM



Problem is that Airbus products are made regardless of costs. They're subsidized by governments to compete against Boeing. Considering the corruption of the French political system, it is next to inconceivabale a Boeing product would be bought ahead of a French product. The agencies of France and Germany lean hard on foreign asian governments to buy Airbus planes, and then Air Fance buys Boeing? It is weird. Much dissonance. Unless it is simply a matter of money.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 11:16:13 PM EDT
Money probably has a lot to enter into it.

Even if it is the National carrier, and the French Government has a majority stake in it, ultimately it is a business that tries to, if not make money, run the lowest deficit possible. It does not get unlimited funding from the government. Thus they must choose the most cost-efficient options regardless of who makes them, and I believe Airbus is aware of this and realises that if they -don't- make a good product, they won't get sales. If the governments really wanted to play 'unfair', they could tailor the Airbus specs to the needs of their own carriers, thus the carrier can buy Airbus and be the most cost-efficient possible. But they haven't done this.

The way I've always seen it, the European manufacturers are the kings of commuter aircraft (Saab, Fokker, BAe), the US nails the short-hauls, Airbus has the mid-range aircraft market, and the long-hauls appear generally to be in the Boeing column, with the 330/340 making a valiant effort. Interestingly, it seems that most 330/340 users never operate many long-haul aircraft, so perhaps there is an economy relevant to the numbers sold/maintained? Perhaps the deal with after-sales service/parts somehow makes the deal sweeter for Airbus buyers if they won't be buying more than a dozen or so.

NTM
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 11:48:24 PM EDT
The politics of world aircraft purchases is almost as bad as the politics of the US congress.

This is a bone that the french government (Air France) threw out at Boeing for some goodwill. Airbus really wants to land the tanker contract with the USAF - they want that so bad they'll drink Budweiser for life if that's what it takes. It's no real stretch for Air France to operate a few more triple sevens - they're no stranger to that airframe.

-Gator
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 2:28:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 2:52:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
These days, that's no longer the case. It has been determined that MOST failures in engines
that had been overhauled previously were due to workmanship errors during the overhaul process.
Also, the newer engine generations are so intrinsically reliable that the standing policy among
the airlines, and which has been adopted by the military as well, is to leave the engine on the
wing and don't overhaul it unless there's evidence that it's needed.

I forget what the record is for TOW (Time On Wing) for a single engine is now, but many planes
are expected to never have their engines dismounted for service over the entire service life of
the aircraft. I do know that the record for TOW (that is, uninterrupted time without being
removed) is well over 30,000 operating hours.

First generation jet engines didn't have a total expected service life of 3,000 hours!

CJ



I wish this was true for engines that are in our fighters.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 6:25:00 AM EDT
Bump for ANdy.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 2:11:23 PM EDT
Top Top