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Posted: 4/20/2007 12:06:13 AM EDT
Air Force lays out specs for its next handgun

By Seamus O’Connor - Staff writer
Posted : Thursday Apr 19, 2007 20:13:25 EDT

The Air Force is asking gun makers for their input on the design of the next handgun for airmen.

The service issued a memo on April 16 laying out its demands. The service wants a weapon with a baseline caliber of .45, though gun is required to be reconfigurable for multiple bullet sizes. The ideal weapon would have a service life exceeding 25,000 rounds and has a grip that can be tailored for any user, according to the memo.

In addition, the memo set out specifications for an accompanying silencer. The device must be able to reduce discharge noise to 140 decibels at least, weigh no more than 10 ounces and have a service life of 3,000 to 10,000 rounds.

The required monthly production rate is 7,500 handguns, starting six months after the forthcoming contract is awarded, the document said.

The information brought in by the memo will be used to create a request for proposals at a yet unannounced time.

Gen. T. Michael Moseley, Air Force chief of staff, first introduced the idea of new Air Force handguns at a House Appropriations Committee hearing in February. An unspecified portion of the $7 billion Air Force supplemental budget request is set aside for handgun acquisition.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 12:30:02 AM EDT
Why would the Air Force need suppressors in enough quantity that they need an RFP to find them?
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 12:34:45 AM EDT
they had a handgun like this. It was called a 1911.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 12:41:14 AM EDT
HK 45

already coming out

already meets those, except the barrel conversions. Thats gonna be tough, unless they want to change the whole slide
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 12:43:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Why would the Air Force need suppressors or any other new handgun?
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 12:44:08 AM EDT
Does anyone make a .45 to 9mm conversion?

That's just a goofy requirement, IMO.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 1:07:46 AM EDT
Well, we were the first to field the AR15/M16, why not the first to replace the M9 completely as well. I'd like to see the HK45 but it will probably be some POS like a S&W.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 1:11:45 AM EDT
I'd like to see the military switch to the G21
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 1:13:03 AM EDT
M&P .45
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 1:13:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2007 1:15:21 AM EDT by Chairborne]

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
I'd like to see the military switch to the G21


No external safety=never happen.


ETA: Although that might not stop the AF from considering it. Our standard carry condition for the M9 is different than other services, we carry round in the chamber, decocked and safety off. No different than a striker fired design with a round in the chamber, except the heavy DA trigger pull on the M9.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 1:14:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chairborne:

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
I'd like to see the military switch to the G21


No external safety=never happen.


True. I believe you can add them on though.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 1:16:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:

Originally Posted By Chairborne:

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
I'd like to see the military switch to the G21


No external safety=never happen.


True. I believe you can add them on though.


The crossbolt BB gun style or an actual safety or safety/decocker?
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 1:20:08 AM EDT
I believe a decocker, not to sure.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 1:20:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 1:39:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 1:45:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ColonelKlink:

Originally Posted By rcr29:
they had a handgun like this. It was called a 1911.


Maybe they are looking for something other than a revolver capacity automatic this time.


+1

They want to keep the weight under 10 pounds as well
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 1:54:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rcr29:
they had a handgun like this. It was called a 1911.


Mine weighs just a bit more.....
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 7:59:06 AM EDT
An aluminum framed 1911 with a lightened slide weighs 25 ounces and holds 8+1 rounds.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:02:18 AM EDT
Sounds like they want the MP.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:03:19 AM EDT
The requirement for the grips sounds favorable for the S&W M&P.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:03:53 AM EDT
Where's the requirement that it fit in the side compartment of a golf club bag?
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:06:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Why would the Air Force need suppressors in enough quantity that they need an RFP to find them?


Easy.

A pilot who gets shot down behind enemy lines needs to do everything he can to stay undetected.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:12:58 AM EDT
Why .45?

Multiple bullet sizes?

Who writes this crap?

The Air Force is complaining about lack of funds, but they want to waste money on this BS?

what a joke.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:20:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cypher214:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Why would the Air Force need suppressors in enough quantity that they need an RFP to find them?


Easy.

A pilot who gets shot down behind enemy lines needs to do everything he can to stay undetected.



Yep, Pilot E&E kit. It just makes sense to have a weapon that is nearly silent for downed pilots.

Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:23:16 AM EDT
Who wants to bet that the following two pistols will be submitted for the solicitation: FNP-45, 14+1 round capacity, and Smith & Wesson M&P45, 10+1 round capacity?

I presume the HK45 (10+1) will be submitted as well.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:23:31 AM EDT
I can see multiple caliber capability if you're talking about 9mm to .40, but .45?

That gets a double
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:24:20 AM EDT
They need a .45 all of the sudden? Those Powerpoint presentations must be getting very dangerous.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:25:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eswanson:
I can see multiple caliber capability if you're talking about 9mm to .40, but .45?

That gets a double


The M3 grease gun had a .45 to 9mm conversion.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:33:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:

Originally Posted By eswanson:
I can see multiple caliber capability if you're talking about 9mm to .40, but .45?

That gets a double


The M3 grease gun had a .45 to 9mm conversion.


Is that true or was it a completely different model? If true, they still had to furnish a replacement barrel, bolt and magazine.

Same is true for the 1911--a new top end and a new mag.

Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:43:37 AM EDT
Glock 21 SF
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:44:04 AM EDT
M&P is the ticket here. frames are all the same size I believe just a different slide/barrel combo.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 9:27:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Does anyone make a .45 to 9mm conversion?

That's just a goofy requirement, IMO.


Probably from a .45 to a .22 for training purposes.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 9:57:44 AM EDT
Why a can?

Downed pilot
PJs taking out a sentry
TACP taking out a sentry

Lots of good reasons for a can. And the AF has plenty of need for a secondary sidearm.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 10:05:58 AM EDT
Is this how pistol procurement usually works?

I would think that the same pistol should be common for all 5 services.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 10:12:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Does anyone make a .45 to 9mm conversion?

That's just a goofy requirement, IMO.


+1 whats the point. If you're behind enemy lines and out of .45 you can whip out your conversion kit and change to 9mm
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 10:12:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2007 10:12:32 AM EDT by motown_steve]
When was the last time the Air Force shot someone with a handgun (aside from maybe a Combat Controller)?
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 10:20:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 10:23:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2007 10:26:17 AM EDT by Darkstar117]

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Air Force lays out specs for its next handgun

By Seamus O’Connor - Staff writer
Posted : Thursday Apr 19, 2007 20:13:25 EDT

The Air Force is asking gun makers for their input on the design of the next handgun for airmen.

The service issued a memo on April 16 laying out its demands. The service wants a weapon with a baseline caliber of .45, though gun is required to be reconfigurable for multiple bullet sizes. The ideal weapon would have a service life exceeding 25,000 rounds and has a grip that can be tailored for any user, according to the memo.

In addition, the memo set out specifications for an accompanying silencer. The device must be able to reduce discharge noise to 140 decibels at least, weigh no more than 10 ounces and have a service life of 3,000 to 10,000 rounds.

The required monthly production rate is 7,500 handguns, starting six months after the forthcoming contract is awarded, the document said.

The information brought in by the memo will be used to create a request for proposals at a yet unannounced time.

Gen. T. Michael Moseley, Air Force chief of staff, first introduced the idea of new Air Force handguns at a House Appropriations Committee hearing in February. An unspecified portion of the $7 billion Air Force supplemental budget request is set aside for handgun acquisition.


The same guy that illegally brings his own .357 revolver, but would prosecute any of us who would do the same...


Originally Posted By motown_steve:
When was the last time the Air Force shot someone with a handgun (aside from maybe a Combat Controller)?


AF SPs on LE duty carry M9s everyday. Also they are issued to drivers & such manning convoys in Iraq.

The AF plays more than most people think.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 10:29:26 AM EDT
Sounds like its an RFI, not a RFQ. They want info, not a quote or proposal.

A 9mm/.40/.45 GAP combo is the easiest to get. But going to .45 ACP usually means a frame change.

I think there is an EAA Witness version that will do it though.

Link Posted: 4/20/2007 10:30:13 AM EDT
Wonder if this one will get canceled like the XM8 or new combat handgun trials that the Army was holding.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 10:31:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Does anyone make a .45 to 9mm conversion?

That's just a goofy requirement, IMO.


Probably from a .45 to a .22 for training purposes.



Didn't consider that, but I'm guessing they were talking about conversion to another 'combat caliber'.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 10:32:21 AM EDT
Must be for the Stargate program...



Link Posted: 4/20/2007 11:05:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2007 11:06:24 AM EDT by chronium76]

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:

Originally Posted By ColonelKlink:

Originally Posted By rcr29:
they had a handgun like this. It was called a 1911.


Maybe they are looking for something other than a revolver capacity automatic this time.


+1

They want to keep the weight under 10 pounds as well



BLASPHMY



The 1911 was the design given by God to us through John M. Browning that represents the epitome of what a killing tool needs to be. It was true in 1911 and is true now." —Colonel Robert J. Coates, USMC


nuff said
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 11:09:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CitySlicker:
Who wants to bet that the following two pistols will be submitted for the solicitation: FNP-45, 14+1 round capacity, and Smith & Wesson M&P45, 10+1 round capacity?

I presume the HK45 (10+1) will be submitted as well.


That FNP-45 made my eyeballs pop boners. Excellent!
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 11:18:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2007 11:18:33 AM EDT by METT-T]
Why in the hell we're going back to each individual service having it's own combat uniform and individual weapons just absolutely blows my mind.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 11:20:52 AM EDT
Another gimme no competition contract for HK I'll assume.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 11:24:53 AM EDT
It'd be nice to put the "M" in "M&P" I'd think...
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 11:31:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Granola:
Sounds like they want the MP.


NNnaaaaa
get them the S&W 99...
perfect
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 11:36:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff:
Why .45?


Does... not... compute...
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 11:40:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By crurifragium:
Where's the requirement that it fit in the side compartment of a golf club bag?


Well that would also explain the silencer requirement , a .45 being fired nearby might cause you to slice.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 11:44:36 AM EDT
taurus has45 with requirements set forth by us special operations command army trials pt 24/7 oss ds 13 rd with one in chamber 5.2 inch barrel-be imported this fall
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