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Posted: 7/19/2010 6:00:35 AM EDT
Volokh Conspiracy, Administration Now Says Individual Mandate Is a “Tax,” by Jonathan H. Adler (Case Western):
During the debate over health care reform, the Obama Administration steadfastly denied that a statutory penalty for failing to purchase a government-approved health insurance policy would constitute a “tax.” The President himself categorically rejected the argument that the mandate is a tax in an ABC interview. Now, however, the Administration is relying upon the federal taxing power to defend the constitutionality of the health care law.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2010/07/after-denying-.html
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 6:05:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 6:06:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 6:07:51 AM EDT

of course he is

will the lame stream media call him out on it?  


Link Posted: 7/19/2010 6:17:44 AM EDT
You absolutely cannot believe anything you hear coming from this administration. Not anything.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 6:18:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 6:21:10 AM EDT
It will be interesting to watch that butthead gibbs try and spin this one.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 6:47:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Deadeye_Jack:
You absolutely cannot believe anything you hear coming from this administration. Not anything.


Well, it's a good thing the administrations before this one were paragons of honesty and open government.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 6:50:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By callgood:
It will be interesting to watch that butthead gibbs try and spin this one.


Shoot, he has more dance moves than the late Michael Jackson!  He needs em too.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 6:54:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By callgood:
It will be interesting to watch that butthead gibbs try and spin this one.


You have to wonder if any of the shit stains in the MSM will even address the question to him. I'm  thinking they'll give the Douchebag yet another pass.

Link Posted: 7/19/2010 6:58:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jwr6:
Originally Posted By Deadeye_Jack:
You absolutely cannot believe anything you hear coming from this administration. Not anything.
Well, it's a good thing the administrations before this one were paragons of honesty and open government.

So, it's really telling when this administration is getting to eye popping levels.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 6:58:50 AM EDT
But we've always been at war with eastasia??
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 6:59:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jwr6:
Originally Posted By Deadeye_Jack:
You absolutely cannot believe anything you hear coming from this administration. Not anything.


Well, it's a good thing the administrations before this one were paragons of honesty and open government.


the sins of past administrations do NOT excuse the sins of the present administration.


Link Posted: 7/19/2010 7:06:56 AM EDT
NYT came about as close as the MSM will to calling him out on it.

Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax

By ROBERT PEAR
Published: July 16, 2010

WASHINGTON — When Congress required most Americans to obtain health insurance or pay a penalty, Democrats denied that they were creating a new tax. But in court, the Obama administration and its allies now defend the requirement as an exercise of the government’s “power to lay and collect taxes.”

And that power, they say, is even more sweeping than the federal power to regulate interstate commerce.

Administration officials say the tax argument is a linchpin of their legal case in defense of the health care overhaul and its individual mandate, now being challenged in court by more than 20 states and several private organizations.
...
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 7:12:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2010 7:16:58 AM EDT by bullyforyou]
Originally Posted By Bubbles:
NYT came about as close as the MSM will to calling him out on it.

Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax

By ROBERT PEAR
Published: July 16, 2010

WASHINGTON — When Congress required most Americans to obtain health insurance or pay a penalty, Democrats denied that they were creating a new tax. But in court, the Obama administration and its allies now defend the requirement as an exercise of the government’s “power to lay and collect taxes.”

And that power, they say, is even more sweeping than the federal power to regulate interstate commerce.

Administration officials say the tax argument is a linchpin of their legal case in defense of the health care overhaul and its individual mandate, now being challenged in court by more than 20 states and several private organizations.
...


understand how dangrous that comment is in the light of an interstate commerce clause that has been perverted to allow them to regulate EVERYTHING.

as an aside, we need to start running folks who intend to go to washington for the sole purpose of repealing legislation. congress will grow ever burdonsome and  authoritarian, and the courts have no intention of limiting them. that'll be our only way out.


Link Posted: 7/19/2010 7:25:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2010 7:36:48 AM EDT by orangelo]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act



The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act passed the Senate on December 24, 2009, by a vote of 60–39 with all Democrats and Independents voting for, and all Republicans voting against. It passed the House of Representatives on March 21, 2010, by a vote of 219–212, with all 178 Republicans and 34 Democrats voting against the bill. At the time of the vote, there were four vacancies in the House.


Notice anything fishy about the dates and order in which that tax law (obunga is the one calling it a tax) passed each house of Congress?





Hint:







Article I

Section 7

All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills.


Link Posted: 7/19/2010 7:33:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bullyforyou:
Originally Posted By Bubbles:
NYT came about as close as the MSM will to calling him out on it.

Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax

By ROBERT PEAR
Published: July 16, 2010

WASHINGTON — When Congress required most Americans to obtain health insurance or pay a penalty, Democrats denied that they were creating a new tax. But in court, the Obama administration and its allies now defend the requirement as an exercise of the government’s “power to lay and collect taxes.”

And that power, they say, is even more sweeping than the federal power to regulate interstate commerce.

Administration officials say the tax argument is a linchpin of their legal case in defense of the health care overhaul and its individual mandate, now being challenged in court by more than 20 states and several private organizations.
...


understand how dangrous that comment is in the light of an interstate commerce clause that has been perverted to allow them to regulate EVERYTHING.

as an aside, we need to start running folks who intend to go to washington for the sole purpose of repealing legislation. congress will grow ever burdonsome and  authoritarian, and the courts have no intention of limiting them. that'll be our only way out.




 Your are right......but I don't believe we'll ever get out of this mess through elections.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 7:36:59 AM EDT



Originally Posted By bullyforyou:



Originally Posted By Bubbles:

NYT came about as close as the MSM will to calling him out on it.



Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax



By ROBERT PEAR

Published: July 16, 2010



WASHINGTON — When Congress required most Americans to obtain health insurance or pay a penalty, Democrats denied that they were creating a new tax. But in court, the Obama administration and its allies now defend the requirement as an exercise of the government’s "power to lay and collect taxes.”



And that power, they say, is even more sweeping than the federal power to regulate interstate commerce.



Administration officials say the tax argument is a linchpin of their legal case in defense of the health care overhaul and its individual mandate, now being challenged in court by more than 20 states and several private organizations.

...




understand how dangrous that comment is in the light of an interstate commerce clause that has been perverted to allow them to regulate EVERYTHING.



as an aside, we need to start running folks who intend to go to washington for the sole purpose of repealing legislation. congress will grow ever burdonsome and  authoritarian, and the courts have no intention of limiting them. that'll be our only way out.






It's not our only way out, just the last decent one.  
 
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 7:39:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By orangelo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act
The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act passed the Senate on December 24, 2009, by a vote of 60–39 with all Democrats and Independents voting for, and all Republicans voting against. It passed the House of Representatives on March 21, 2010, by a vote of 219–212, with all 178 Republicans and 34 Democrats voting against the bill. At the time of the vote, there were four vacancies in the House.

Notice anything fishy about the dates and order in which that tax law (obunga is the one calling it a tax) passed each house of Congress?

Hint:


Article I
Section 7
All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills.




was that added when it went to the house?  i can't remember now.

Link Posted: 7/19/2010 7:43:18 AM EDT
The SCOTUS will wipe its ass with the Healthcare Bill, if it even gets to them before being thrashed.  Obama isn't getting the free pass from the courts that he thought he would.  The SCOTUS isn't going to buy the sophomoric argument the Holder Justice Department puts forth.  

Now, I think it's sad that the courts are our last hope, and that Congress doesn't give a shit about the Constitution.   November can't come soon enough.  Also, does anyone else think Eric Holder looks like a catfish?
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 7:46:22 AM EDT
Whatever sewage spews from his lips, the exact opposite is true.  He is and always will be a politician.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 7:47:07 AM EDT
This is great.  If it IS a tax, then it fails constitutional muster since a tax bill must originate in the house.  This, I believe, is one of the tacks that challengers are taking.  There is no room for interpretation:  If it is a tax bill it is void since it did not originate in the house.

Link Posted: 7/19/2010 7:49:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By realengr:
This is great.  If it IS a tax, then it fails constitutional muster since a tax bill must originate in the house.  This, I believe, is one of the tacks that challengers are taking.  There is no room for interpretation:  If it is a tax bill it is void since it did not originate in the house.



Oh Liberals don't care about silly stuff like that
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 7:50:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Vulthoom:
The SCOTUS will wipe its ass with the Healthcare Bill, if it even gets to them before being thrashed.

I hope you're right.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 7:52:52 AM EDT
If it is a tax, it's still a tax on someone that has not bought a private contract from a private company simply because they are alive.

There is no way to avoid the situation that requires the tax or the private contract purchase and is therefore a poll tax and that has already been found to be unconstitutional.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 7:56:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jwr6:
Originally Posted By Deadeye_Jack:
You absolutely cannot believe anything you hear coming from this administration. Not anything.


Well, it's a good thing the administrations before this one were paragons of honesty and open government.


Yeah, except this President touted himself as being "committed to making his administration the most open and transparent in history", yet has been pretty much totally opposite that in the short time he has been in office. He's a liar and a fraud who was supposedly going to rise above the petty machinations of previous administrations and "heal the planet."

Link Posted: 7/19/2010 8:00:37 AM EDT



Originally Posted By realengr:


This is great.  If it IS a tax, then it fails constitutional muster since a tax bill must originate in the house.  This, I believe, is one of the tacks that challengers are taking.  There is no room for interpretation:  If it is a tax bill it is void since it did not originate in the house.





I believe I remember a lawsuit on those very grounds being filed the very day it was signed into law.



 
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 8:01:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Vulthoom:
The SCOTUS will wipe its ass with the Healthcare Bill, if it even gets to them before being thrashed.  Obama isn't getting the free pass from the courts that he thought he would.  The SCOTUS isn't going to buy the sophomoric argument the Holder Justice Department puts forth.  

Now, I think it's sad that the courts are our last hope, and that Congress doesn't give a shit about the Constitution.   November can't come soon enough.  Also, does anyone else think Eric Holder looks like a catfish?


Soap box
Ballot box
Jury Box
Bullet box
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 8:05:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jwr6:
Originally Posted By Deadeye_Jack:
You absolutely cannot believe anything you hear coming from this administration. Not anything.


Well, it's a good thing the administrations before this one were paragons of honesty and open government.


Compared to the current admin., they were saints.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 8:16:58 AM EDT
Everybody calm down and take your soma.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 8:27:40 AM EDT
I get to say it!!!  Obango lied and our economy died!
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 8:31:56 AM EDT
wait, are they lying ???

can't be...
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 8:46:45 AM EDT
FOX News is going to report on this in a few minutes.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 2:11:03 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Essayons:


Volokh Conspiracy, Administration Now Says Individual Mandate Is a "Tax,” by Jonathan H. Adler (Case Western):

During the debate over health care reform, the Obama Administration steadfastly denied that a statutory penalty for failing to purchase a government-approved health insurance policy would constitute a "tax.” The President himself categorically rejected the argument that the mandate is a tax in an ABC interview. Now, however, the Administration is relying upon the federal taxing power to defend the constitutionality of the health care law.



http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2010/07/after-denying-.html


If it is a tax, it's a non-income-tax direct tax...



Which means every penny has to be apportioned among the states, or it's unconstitutional...



Which means it's unconstitutional.



 
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 2:21:56 PM EDT
Lot's of good news (note the dripping sarcasm> coming out about Obama Care in recent weeks:

- While claiming no taxes related to HC, his Admin. is now pushing the mandate as a "tax"??

- No Federal funding for abortions, yep! another lie and apparently the Peoples Republic of Md is #2 on the list of states ok with that, go figure!

- You can keep your Dr! yep, more bullshit from the Socialist in Chief. Folks are finding out the choice to retain their Doctors most likely won't be applicable, another big surprise! or not!


So one can only imagine the lovely little things we'll find out were in the "Financial Reform" bill!
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:06:26 PM EDT



Originally Posted By myfakename:


Whatever sewage spews from his lips, the exact opposite is true.  He is and always will be a politician.






 
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:09:16 PM EDT
From the New York Times, even.....even the libs will have to admit the validity of the story in the face of that...
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