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Posted: 2/21/2007 7:20:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2007 7:40:28 AM EST by moproclean]
First of all I intend this thread to be in no way racist, so don't take what I say as so. I admit I do listen to a little rap from time to time and have black friends and my brother in law's wife is black.

I was having a discussion with one of my black friends that I grew up with and went to grade school with. We can talk openly about racial issues and he is very understanding without turning defensive. He's a great guy. Paid his way through college to become a pharmacist (which I rag on him cause he's a "drug dealer"), and is making a good living pulling in nearly SIX figures.

Well we did get to talking about how blacks still are "beaten down" by the white man and how you hear some of them wanting reparations. I don't know the exact numbers off the top of my head but something like 1 in 11 black males from 20-35 are in prison or have served time, and another percent, something in the 5-11 range are on government aid. My buddy, (kinda like a young Bill Cosby) was telling me that "yeah, we meaning our ancestors had to suffer 100's of years ago when there was slavery and then trying to fit in with white people even up until today, BUT we (today) have it way better than if our ancestors didn't come over here. Just a wild guess, but I'd say 90% of African-Americans decended from slaves. Of the blacks that are in the USA today wouldn't you agree they have it MUCH better off than if their ancestors were never brought to this country and they still had to survive (not live) in Africa? He thinks that through the unfortunate events of the past that he is a thousand times better off over here than if he was born in Africa. Look at all the countries over there, corruption, genocide, violence, wars, famine, disease, and so on and so forth. The odds of an African American making something of themself vs. someone born and living in Africa now is probably 10,000 to 1, or higher. I know costs and standards of living is different between here and there, but even a McDonalds worker here makes more in a month than they might in a year or two. They can get government aid, are prevented (for the most part) from being discriminated against for many things, and they have better access to cheap or free healthcare. He agreed when I said it seems like the poorest blacks over here are richer than the richest Africans in Africa.

Again, not trying to start a shitstorm, popcorn check, racial whatever, just pointing out that all the crap you hear on TV and the crap that someone like Al Sharpton spits out of his mouth is just a bunch of BS. The "black man" has never had it better than in a country like the USA, but what makes me and my friend mad is you always hear the black leaders (Jackson, Sharpton, etc) still make it sound like it's whitey's fault they're poor and can't get a job and can't do this or that, when all it really takes is getting off your ass , putting the xbox down and finding a job or getting a loan for school cause you have the opportunity here and are thousands of times better off than if you were born here vs being born across the Atlantic.


EDIT: It's 6 figures. I'm a moron.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 7:24:00 AM EST
Is he voting for Obama?
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 7:27:00 AM EST
Not just a race thing.

Most "poor" Americans have TV, AC, and a car.

USA is a great place to be.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 7:28:12 AM EST

making a good living pulling in nearly 5 figures.


Cost of living must be much lower in your parts.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 7:32:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2007 7:32:42 AM EST by joelad]
A debate pointing out the obvious.

My ancestors emigrated here from Europe. My paternal great-grandparents from the current day Czech Republic. Had they not, and had I been born there under Communist rule, no doubt my life would have been much different. I would have been a baby for Prauge Spring. Not saw the fall of Communism until I was 25.

Instead I grew up under capitalism, and have a relatively good life. Just like anyone who is born, lives, and dies here in America.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 7:37:05 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 7:38:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

making a good living pulling in nearly 5 figures.


Cost of living must be much lower in your parts.



He's single.
Bought a 100K ranch home, mortgage, like mine is about $850/month
Drives a regular car, 4 door used 02 accord.
Doesn't throw money out the window on fancy things.

I think he puts away in savings about 2-3K a month.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 7:39:49 AM EST
Shit. it's 6 figures. He makes 92K/year. I was just countin zeros
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 7:46:01 AM EST
Uhh, I'm not sure 'bout that fancy MO book learnin', but 92,000 only has around 3 zeros according to TX 'rithmatic.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 7:46:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2007 7:48:17 AM EST by PosterChild]

making a good living pulling in nearly 5 figures.



See? Proof that the man is keeping them down. And this poor guy doesn't even know it.

Edit to add: Hey TaterSalad! My wife and I are going to see Ron White Friday. It's my Christmas present from her.

Hijack over.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 7:49:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By TaterSalad:
Uhh, I'm not sure 'bout that fancy MO book learnin', but 92,000 only has around 3 zeros according to TX 'rithmatic.


Sorry, I went to grade school in TX.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 7:52:47 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 7:55:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By TC6969:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

making a good living pulling in nearly 5 figures.


Cost of living must be much lower in your parts.


No shit!

5 figures starts at 10,000 so "nearly 5 figures" tops out at 9,999.

Glad to hear he's doing so good!

Awww, come-on guys. Be nice to the new guy.

I know what you're saying about how everyone should respect what we have here. You can still do that while pointing out racist problems that still exist. Around here if you DWB (driving while black) in the wrong neighborhood late at night, you'll often get stopped. Just watching the way cops treat blacks at roadblocks shows you that racism is still alive and well in this country. We can still appreciate what we has even when he complains about the problems. If we don't recognize the problems then they'll never get fixed.z
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 8:00:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By moproclean:

Originally Posted By TaterSalad:
Uhh, I'm not sure 'bout that fancy MO book learnin', but 92,000 only has around 3 zeros according to TX 'rithmatic.


Sorry, I went to grade school in TX.


So did I.

Anyway, I think it has more to do with the control that Sharpton, Jackson, et al, want to have over the people who follow them. It's easier to have a defeatist attitude than to actually man up and take control of your life, so they coddle the people who listen to them and constantly assure them that their poverty and stupidity aren't their fault. They can more easily galvanize the masses by repeating the simple mantra that it is all the white man's fault. This attitude has pervaded the generations. Another observation I have made is that these people in a state of poverty and shittiness RESENT black people who have made something of themselves because they have been told that the only way they could have done this is if they became the "white man's n***er."

It's all about a people convinced that they will always be oppressed, and too prideful to actually contribute to society because they believe any measure of deference is akin to being enslaved.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 8:02:05 AM EST
its not a black thing., Your friend chose to live a resposible life, and put meaning to it instead of follwing the " he made me this way" excuse for failing.

welfare etc is what keeps da brotha down, and his own lack of self respect and esteem. Like anyone who doesnt care they wont get far in life, it sthat simple.
I worked in .gov houseing blacks,whites etc. They all have the same traits,
lazy, and lack of respect for others and their self!



Link Posted: 2/21/2007 8:02:10 AM EST
If your brother-in-law's wife is black, would that mean she's your sister?
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 8:02:21 AM EST
(1) Your friend is NOT African. He's an American. Just like the rest of us. Remind him that this "title" shit is just yet another Al Sharpton wet dream cause he is such an ass he can't figure out who HE is.

(2) Good for your friend! Sounds as if he has a good paying job, is educated, pays his taxes and is a sound citizen contributing to society.

(3) There are far TOO MANY people in America (of all races) that think the government "OWES" them. The government "owes" people nothing! If you want something in life then you should get off your ass and go get it.

I for one am sick and tired of the media trying to classify people as "The potential first black President" "The potential first woman president" "The first........(fill in the blank)"
Why can't people just accept the best PERSON for the job and end this BS "identity" crap.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 9:47:16 AM EST
Great replies guys. I'll copy and forward this onto him. Glad I could get my point of view across without coming as it being racist.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 9:50:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By KBaker:
If your brother-in-law's wife is black, would that mean she's your sister?


I too am wondering about this
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 9:55:29 AM EST
The irony is, he is probably resented for his success.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 10:03:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By dedfella:

Originally Posted By KBaker:
If your brother-in-law's wife is black, would that mean she's your sister?


I too am wondering about this


My wife's brother's wife.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 10:15:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 10:15:41 AM EST by MagKnightX]

Originally Posted By dedfella:

Originally Posted By KBaker:
If your brother-in-law's wife is black, would that mean she's your sister?


I too am wondering about this


Wife's brother's wife, perhaps?

Edit: damn this slow connection!
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 10:21:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By moproclean:

Originally Posted By dedfella:

Originally Posted By KBaker:
If your brother-in-law's wife is black, would that mean she's your sister?


I too am wondering about this


My wife's brother's wife.


ah, I'm a dumbass
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 10:26:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By Typical_Infidel:
Not just a race thing.

Most "poor" Americans have TV, AC, and a car.

USA is a great place to be.

Agreed.

Think of all the poor and downtrodden folks (white, black, brown, purple) who are morbidly obese.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 10:56:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By moproclean:
First of all I intend this thread to be in no way racist, so don't take what I say as so. I admit I do listen to a little rap from time to time and have black friends and my brother in law's wife is black.

I was having a discussion with one of my black friends that I grew up with and went to grade school with. We can talk openly about racial issues and he is very understanding without turning defensive. He's a great guy. Paid his way through college to become a pharmacist (which I rag on him cause he's a "drug dealer"), and is making a good living pulling in nearly SIX figures.

Well we did get to talking about how blacks still are "beaten down" by the white man and how you hear some of them wanting reparations. I don't know the exact numbers off the top of my head but something like 1 in 11 black males from 20-35 are in prison or have served time, and another percent, something in the 5-11 range are on government aid. My buddy, (kinda like a young Bill Cosby) was telling me that "yeah, we meaning our ancestors had to suffer 100's of years ago when there was slavery and then trying to fit in with white people even up until today, BUT we (today) have it way better than if our ancestors didn't come over here. Just a wild guess, but I'd say 90% of African-Americans decended from slaves. Of the blacks that are in the USA today wouldn't you agree they have it MUCH better off than if their ancestors were never brought to this country and they still had to survive (not live) in Africa? He thinks that through the unfortunate events of the past that he is a thousand times better off over here than if he was born in Africa. Look at all the countries over there, corruption, genocide, violence, wars, famine, disease, and so on and so forth. The odds of an African American making something of themself vs. someone born and living in Africa now is probably 10,000 to 1, or higher. I know costs and standards of living is different between here and there, but even a McDonalds worker here makes more in a month than they might in a year or two. They can get government aid, are prevented (for the most part) from being discriminated against for many things, and they have better access to cheap or free healthcare. He agreed when I said it seems like the poorest blacks over here are richer than the richest Africans in Africa.

Again, not trying to start a shitstorm, popcorn check, racial whatever, just pointing out that all the crap you hear on TV and the crap that someone like Al Sharpton spits out of his mouth is just a bunch of BS. The "black man" has never had it better than in a country like the USA, but what makes me and my friend mad is you always hear the black leaders (Jackson, Sharpton, etc) still make it sound like it's whitey's fault they're poor and can't get a job and can't do this or that, when all it really takes is getting off your ass , putting the xbox down and finding a job or getting a loan for school cause you have the opportunity here and are thousands of times better off than if you were born here vs being born across the Atlantic.


EDIT: It's 6 figures. I'm a moron.



Racist? Hell, I think your post is admirable. Race is still the most taboo subject of discussion in America. While whites and blacks may spend a lot of time discussing the topic amongst themselves, they rarely discuss it together. Of course, this virtually guarantees that nothing meaningful is ever accomplished, as each side exists in an echo-chamber, preaching to the converted and never once gaining any sort of insight into the minds and mindset of others.

The fact that you and your friend can sit and discuss matters of race with a person of another race puts you head and shoulders ahead of many in our society. As long as both of you are willing to listen and learn, as well as talk, both of you couldn't help but come away from the experience having learned something valuable for it.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 11:00:53 AM EST
The lack of paragraphing in the middle made me lose interest rapidly.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 11:02:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By zoom:

Originally Posted By TC6969:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

making a good living pulling in nearly 5 figures.


Cost of living must be much lower in your parts.


No shit!

5 figures starts at 10,000 so "nearly 5 figures" tops out at 9,999.

Glad to hear he's doing so good!

Awww, come-on guys. Be nice to the new guy.

I know what you're saying about how everyone should respect what we have here. You can still do that while pointing out racist problems that still exist. Around here if you DWB (driving while black) in the wrong neighborhood late at night, you'll often get stopped. Just watching the way cops treat blacks at roadblocks shows you that racism is still alive and well in this country. We can still appreciate what we has even when he complains about the problems. If we don't recognize the problems then they'll never get fixed.z



DWB? A fat load of horse shit. Criminal profiling nets more blacks because more blacks commit crime per capita. 1% of the US population is responsible for over half of the prison population. Were they all framed by the "man"? Half of em framed? A fourth?

When a victim of crime describes their attacker are they lying when they say black? There are more black on white violent crimes (Simple assault and up) than there are black on black violent crimes. But it is the police who are racist for stopping and arresting blacks? Its the man that is racist and frames and entraps these criminals?

Black americans are stopped and arrested at a lower rate than what the crime statistics show should be warranted. But all dem cops is racist?

Link Posted: 2/22/2007 11:21:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By Thorgrimm_the_Vain:

Originally Posted By zoom:

Originally Posted By TC6969:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

making a good living pulling in nearly 5 figures.


Cost of living must be much lower in your parts.


No shit!

5 figures starts at 10,000 so "nearly 5 figures" tops out at 9,999.

Glad to hear he's doing so good!

Awww, come-on guys. Be nice to the new guy.

I know what you're saying about how everyone should respect what we have here. You can still do that while pointing out racist problems that still exist. Around here if you DWB (driving while black) in the wrong neighborhood late at night, you'll often get stopped. Just watching the way cops treat blacks at roadblocks shows you that racism is still alive and well in this country. We can still appreciate what we has even when he complains about the problems. If we don't recognize the problems then they'll never get fixed.z



DWB? A fat load of horse shit. Criminal profiling nets more blacks because more blacks commit crime per capita. 1% of the US population is responsible for over half of the prison population. Were they all framed by the "man"? Half of em framed? A fourth?

When a victim of crime describes their attacker are they lying when they say black? There are more black on white violent crimes (Simple assault and up) than there are black on black violent crimes. But it is the police who are racist for stopping and arresting blacks? Its the man that is racist and frames and entraps these criminals?

Black americans are stopped and arrested at a lower rate than what the crime statistics show should be warranted. But all dem cops is racist?




While studies have shown that the rates at which minorities are stopped by the police do roughly correspond to the rates at which they commit crimes, I do take issue with your assertion that there are more black on white violent crimes in the U.S. than black on black crimes.
Every study and statistic that I've ever seen indicates that black criminals victimize their fellow blacks far more often than they victimize whites. If you can cite references, please do. (Not trying to start an argument, just trying to be better informed.)
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 11:34:07 AM EST
Here is a collection of statistics from the DOJ.

www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

The site is a PITA to navigate, so I stopped with the information above. There is similar information for all types of crimes.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 11:42:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By ICZEOZN:
Here is a collection of statistics from the DOJ.

www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

The site is a PITA to navigate, so I stopped with the information above. There is similar information for all types of crimes.


Thanks. I'll check it out.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 11:42:27 AM EST
Speaking of race as being a "taboo" subject, Why don't schools really teach you what Lincoln really thought about the black race? "All men are created equal"?, I think not acording to Honest Abe.

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois" (September 18, 1858), pp. 145-146. ought about the black race?

Link Posted: 2/22/2007 11:52:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 11:52:49 AM EST by ReelVirginian1861]
It's sad that congress decided to make some people twice as equal as others.

Link Posted: 2/22/2007 11:52:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By runcible:

Originally Posted By Thorgrimm_the_Vain:

Originally Posted By zoom:

Originally Posted By TC6969:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

making a good living pulling in nearly 5 figures.


Cost of living must be much lower in your parts.


No shit!

5 figures starts at 10,000 so "nearly 5 figures" tops out at 9,999.

Glad to hear he's doing so good!

Awww, come-on guys. Be nice to the new guy.

I know what you're saying about how everyone should respect what we have here. You can still do that while pointing out racist problems that still exist. Around here if you DWB (driving while black) in the wrong neighborhood late at night, you'll often get stopped. Just watching the way cops treat blacks at roadblocks shows you that racism is still alive and well in this country. We can still appreciate what we has even when he complains about the problems. If we don't recognize the problems then they'll never get fixed.z



DWB? A fat load of horse shit. Criminal profiling nets more blacks because more blacks commit crime per capita. 1% of the US population is responsible for over half of the prison population. Were they all framed by the "man"? Half of em framed? A fourth?

When a victim of crime describes their attacker are they lying when they say black? There are more black on white violent crimes (Simple assault and up) than there are black on black violent crimes. But it is the police who are racist for stopping and arresting blacks? Its the man that is racist and frames and entraps these criminals?

Black americans are stopped and arrested at a lower rate than what the crime statistics show should be warranted. But all dem cops is racist?




While studies have shown that the rates at which minorities are stopped by the police do roughly correspond to the rates at which they commit crimes, I do take issue with your assertion that there are more black on white violent crimes in the U.S. than black on black crimes.
Every study and statistic that I've ever seen indicates that black criminals victimize their fellow blacks far more often than they victimize whites. If you can cite references, please do. (Not trying to start an argument, just trying to be better informed.)



National Crime Victimization Survey
(these numbers are extrapolated from survey participants)
1994 asserts that there were 1,140,670 incidences of violence where a white victim reported the attacker to be black. There were 6,830,360 white victims of violent crime. so about 17 percent of the white victims were attacked by blacks.

Blacks in 1994 were the victims 1,100,490 violent crimes of which 12 percent reported a white attacker or 135,360.

Subtract that from the 1,100,490 violent crimes where a black was victimized..... 965,130 incidences of black or other minority (excluding hispanics who are counted as white in offender stats.) which is less than 1,140,670

These numbers also indicate that nearly 90 percent of interacial crime is black on white. There is a margin of error due to the unwillingness to include hispanic as a class of offender but they are a seperate class of victim.

www.icpsr.umich.edu/NACJD/NCVS/
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 11:59:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1GunnerHogan1:
(1) Your friend is NOT African. He's an American. Just like the rest of us. Remind him that this "title" shit is just yet another Al Sharpton wet dream cause he is such an ass he can't figure out who HE is.



Exactly... One of the guys from my range is from Johanasburg (sp) in Africa. I'd pay anything (not really) for him to tell people he's African American (he's Caucasian). I'd die laughing.

Magoo
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 12:00:34 PM EST
you are 100% right my friend. i work in research and work side by side with a black phD student. i've known him for a few years now and we've had hte same discussions. he talks about how pathetic it is the leaders speak of "everyone move back ot africa" b/c even they dont want to leave. this place is awesome and when you like at the shithole africa is, noone would want to go back to that.

they still stitch womens vaginas shut in some parts to prevent intercourse. i mean wtf.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 12:05:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 12:08:00 PM EST by Bama-Shooter]
So if someone paid for a cruise ship to take blacks who wanted to move to Mother Africa for free, how many do you think would show up for the trip?

Hint, it might fill a life boat.

ETA: And there's no such thing as an African-American. You either one or the other, not both.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 12:20:46 PM EST
My econ teacher summed it up this way. Would you rather be rich in the middle ages, or poor in modern America.

Rich and have to worrry about sickness and death everyday, no AC, no heat, bad food.

Poor with cable TV, AC, cars, and modern healthcare?
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 12:22:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By ICZEOZN:
Here is a collection of statistics from the DOJ.

www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

The site is a PITA to navigate, so I stopped with the information above. There is similar information for all types of crimes.


While I am still sifting through the site (it IS a little tough), the stats on homicides don't seem to support the idea that there are more black on white crimes than black on black. According to the DOJ, between '76 and '04, 86% of whites were killed by other whites and 94% of blacks were killed by other blacks. While the numbers on interracial homicides do show a higher incidence of blacks killing whites than whites killing blacks, murder would seem, overall, to be a predominantly INTRAracial crime; most white killers target white victims and most black killers target black victims.

It would seem that, for most people, we're most likely to be killed by "Us", rather than "Them".
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 12:32:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By Thorgrimm_the_Vain:

Originally Posted By runcible:

Originally Posted By Thorgrimm_the_Vain:

Originally Posted By zoom:

Originally Posted By TC6969:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

making a good living pulling in nearly 5 figures.


Cost of living must be much lower in your parts.


No shit!

5 figures starts at 10,000 so "nearly 5 figures" tops out at 9,999.

Glad to hear he's doing so good!

Awww, come-on guys. Be nice to the new guy.

I know what you're saying about how everyone should respect what we have here. You can still do that while pointing out racist problems that still exist. Around here if you DWB (driving while black) in the wrong neighborhood late at night, you'll often get stopped. Just watching the way cops treat blacks at roadblocks shows you that racism is still alive and well in this country. We can still appreciate what we has even when he complains about the problems. If we don't recognize the problems then they'll never get fixed.z



DWB? A fat load of horse shit. Criminal profiling nets more blacks because more blacks commit crime per capita. 1% of the US population is responsible for over half of the prison population. Were they all framed by the "man"? Half of em framed? A fourth?

When a victim of crime describes their attacker are they lying when they say black? There are more black on white violent crimes (Simple assault and up) than there are black on black violent crimes. But it is the police who are racist for stopping and arresting blacks? Its the man that is racist and frames and entraps these criminals?

Black americans are stopped and arrested at a lower rate than what the crime statistics show should be warranted. But all dem cops is racist?




While studies have shown that the rates at which minorities are stopped by the police do roughly correspond to the rates at which they commit crimes, I do take issue with your assertion that there are more black on white violent crimes in the U.S. than black on black crimes.
Every study and statistic that I've ever seen indicates that black criminals victimize their fellow blacks far more often than they victimize whites. If you can cite references, please do. (Not trying to start an argument, just trying to be better informed.)



National Crime Victimization Survey
(these numbers are extrapolated from survey participants)
1994 asserts that there were 1,140,670 incidences of violence where a white victim reported the attacker to be black. There were 6,830,360 white victims of violent crime. so about 17 percent of the white victims were attacked by blacks.

Blacks in 1994 were the victims 1,100,490 violent crimes of which 12 percent reported a white attacker or 135,360.

Subtract that from the 1,100,490 violent crimes where a black was victimized..... 965,130 incidences of black or other minority (excluding hispanics who are counted as white in offender stats.) which is less than 1,140,670

These numbers also indicate that nearly 90 percent of interacial crime is black on white. There is a margin of error due to the unwillingness to include hispanic as a class of offender but they are a seperate class of victim.

www.icpsr.umich.edu/NACJD/NCVS/


Ouch...more numbers. I'm getting a headache.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 12:42:01 PM EST
I have heard that something like 25% of black males 18-28 are either in jail on probation/parole or in some way involved with the criminal justice system.....is this true?

Link Posted: 2/22/2007 12:53:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By Thorgrimm_the_Vain:

Originally Posted By runcible:

Originally Posted By Thorgrimm_the_Vain:

Originally Posted By zoom:

Originally Posted By TC6969:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

making a good living pulling in nearly 5 figures.


Cost of living must be much lower in your parts.


No shit!

5 figures starts at 10,000 so "nearly 5 figures" tops out at 9,999.

Glad to hear he's doing so good!

Awww, come-on guys. Be nice to the new guy.

I know what you're saying about how everyone should respect what we have here. You can still do that while pointing out racist problems that still exist. Around here if you DWB (driving while black) in the wrong neighborhood late at night, you'll often get stopped. Just watching the way cops treat blacks at roadblocks shows you that racism is still alive and well in this country. We can still appreciate what we has even when he complains about the problems. If we don't recognize the problems then they'll never get fixed.z



DWB? A fat load of horse shit. Criminal profiling nets more blacks because more blacks commit crime per capita. 1% of the US population is responsible for over half of the prison population. Were they all framed by the "man"? Half of em framed? A fourth?

When a victim of crime describes their attacker are they lying when they say black? There are more black on white violent crimes (Simple assault and up) than there are black on black violent crimes. But it is the police who are racist for stopping and arresting blacks? Its the man that is racist and frames and entraps these criminals?

Black americans are stopped and arrested at a lower rate than what the crime statistics show should be warranted. But all dem cops is racist?




While studies have shown that the rates at which minorities are stopped by the police do roughly correspond to the rates at which they commit crimes, I do take issue with your assertion that there are more black on white violent crimes in the U.S. than black on black crimes.
Every study and statistic that I've ever seen indicates that black criminals victimize their fellow blacks far more often than they victimize whites. If you can cite references, please do. (Not trying to start an argument, just trying to be better informed.)



National Crime Victimization Survey
(these numbers are extrapolated from survey participants)
1994 asserts that there were 1,140,670 incidences of violence where a white victim reported the attacker to be black. There were 6,830,360 white victims of violent crime. so about 17 percent of the white victims were attacked by blacks.

Blacks in 1994 were the victims 1,100,490 violent crimes of which 12 percent reported a white attacker or 135,360.

Subtract that from the 1,100,490 violent crimes where a black was victimized..... 965,130 incidences of black or other minority (excluding hispanics who are counted as white in offender stats.) which is less than 1,140,670

These numbers also indicate that nearly 90 percent of interacial crime is black on white. There is a margin of error due to the unwillingness to include hispanic as a class of offender but they are a seperate class of victim.

www.icpsr.umich.edu/NACJD/NCVS/



Once again, I'm not trying to start an argument. I will be the first to admit that numbers and statistics are NOT my strong suit.

However, if, in 1994, 17% of white victims of violence were victimized by blacks, and 88% of black victims of violence were victimized by blacks (if I'm reading the numbers correctly), the aren't black criminals victimizing blacks at a higher rate than whites?

(Why couldn't I get into a debate about grammar, or literature. Why did it have to be numbers? )
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:12:39 PM EST
You friend should listen to Larry Elder.

http://www.larryelder.com/
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 7:19:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 7:20:06 PM EST by Thorgrimm_the_Vain]

Blacks in 1994 were the victims 1,100,490 violent crimes of which 12 percent reported a white attacker or 135,360.

Subtract that from the 1,100,490 violent crimes where a black was victimized..... 965,130 incidences of black or other minorities victimizing blacks (excluding hispanics who are counted as white in offender stats.) which is less than 1,140,670 white victims reporting a black attacker



So as long as my math is good, and the 965,130 incidence of black on black violent crimes is less than the 1,140,670 black on white violent crimes, I am correct to state based on the data given by the NCVS that in 1994 there were more black on white violent crimes than black on black



Not talking rate , merely talking overall numbers.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 7:21:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

making a good living pulling in nearly 5 figures.


Cost of living must be much lower in your parts.


If he is single, high 5 figures is plenty...unless he makes 10k a year
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 7:41:15 PM EST
There is no such thing as an "African American", either you are an American or you are not.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 8:16:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 8:27:19 PM EST by Bostonterrier97]

Originally Posted By moproclean:
First of all I intend this thread to be in no way racist, so don't take what I say as so. I admit I do listen to a little rap from time to time and have black friends and my brother in law's wife is black.

I was having a discussion with one of my black friends that I grew up with and went to grade school with. We can talk openly about racial issues and he is very understanding without turning defensive. He's a great guy. Paid his way through college to become a pharmacist (which I rag on him cause he's a "drug dealer"), and is making a good living pulling in nearly SIX figures.

Well we did get to talking about how blacks still are "beaten down" by the white man and how you hear some of them wanting reparations. I don't know the exact numbers off the top of my head but something like 1 in 11 black males from 20-35 are in prison or have served time, and another percent, something in the 5-11 range are on government aid. My buddy, (kinda like a young Bill Cosby) was telling me that "yeah, we meaning our ancestors had to suffer 100's of years ago when there was slavery and then trying to fit in with white people even up until today, BUT we (today) have it way better than if our ancestors didn't come over here. Just a wild guess, but I'd say 90% of African-Americans decended from slaves. Of the blacks that are in the USA today wouldn't you agree they have it MUCH better off than if their ancestors were never brought to this country and they still had to survive (not live) in Africa? He thinks that through the unfortunate events of the past that he is a thousand times better off over here than if he was born in Africa. Look at all the countries over there, corruption, genocide, violence, wars, famine, disease, and so on and so forth. The odds of an African American making something of themself vs. someone born and living in Africa now is probably 10,000 to 1, or higher. I know costs and standards of living is different between here and there, but even a McDonalds worker here makes more in a month than they might in a year or two. They can get government aid, are prevented (for the most part) from being discriminated against for many things, and they have better access to cheap or free healthcare. He agreed when I said it seems like the poorest blacks over here are richer than the richest Africans in Africa.

Again, not trying to start a shitstorm, popcorn check, racial whatever, just pointing out that all the crap you hear on TV and the crap that someone like Al Sharpton spits out of his mouth is just a bunch of BS. The "black man" has never had it better than in a country like the USA, but what makes me and my friend mad is you always hear the black leaders (Jackson, Sharpton, etc) still make it sound like it's whitey's fault they're poor and can't get a job and can't do this or that, when all it really takes is getting off your ass , putting the xbox down and finding a job or getting a loan for school cause you have the opportunity here and are thousands of times better off than if you were born here vs being born across the Atlantic.



Some facts first and then my opinion.
(a.) African Americans are not just your typical "Black" American who is usually a hybrid descendent of Bantu/Indian/European Stock. But they also have to include the Bedouin's who live in Northern Africa, the Egyptians, as well as many Whites.

Africa has the Bantus, Khoisan's, Berbers, Hottentots, Nilotics, Nubians, etc. They are all somewhat different racially. Not all of them are "black". If we throw in the Indians, Asians and Whites then it becomes even more confusing.

(b.) Most Slaves were captured by other Black Tribes and sold to the Europeans and Arabs. They may have been traded a number of times before winding up on a slave ship bound for the Americas or the Middle East.

(c.) Except for a few instances (and areas) most civilization was tribal and pre-bronze.

(d.) Life was barbaric before the arrival of the Europeans. Modern Medical care was pretty much non-existent prior to the 20th century for black Africans.

(e.) The life of an American Slave was better than the life of a Tribal Member in Africa in the sense that, that slave had access to better food and living conditions. And some small amenities afforded to the by the Industrial Age. (clothing, needles, a knife, some tools, shoes, etc).

The American Slave did not have to worry about ending up as Lunch for some lion stalking him in the bush.

(f.) After the Civil War: Life for Ex-Slaves was astronomically better than their relatives living in Africa. In spite of the Racism, Lynchings, etc. They could own their own land, learn how to read and write, travel, hunt, buy guns and other western products. Whereas their African Relatives were pretty much relegated to living in a stone age culture, unless they got lucky and found a job in a Mine in Southern Africa.

(g.) Even the very poor Black Americans are better off in many ways than their distant relatives living in any of the African Nations.

Monetary Reparations be damned. If they don't like America, they can go BACK to Africa like some of their Ancesters did and found a new nation called Liberia (and we know what a paradise that place is)

Which place is better...

Africa



OR

America





Link Posted: 2/22/2007 8:22:54 PM EST
lol at this thread.

Whats the point of this thread anyways? "I listen to rap sometimes, and my buddy who was born in the US is black and makes money"...lol WTF?
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 8:29:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By gaspain:
lol at this thread.

Whats the point of this thread anyways? "I listen to rap sometimes, and my buddy who was born in the US is black and makes money"...lol WTF?



He is showing us that he is not racist. He has an employed, wealthy black friend. Otherwise due to his being on a gun board it would be assumed that he was a evil nazi, anti-semite, kluxer, homophobic, misogynistic, pro-genocide, white-supremacist, slaver, bad bad man.


You have to prove your innocence of thought crime. We are guilty of thought crime until proved innocent.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 5:46:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By Thorgrimm_the_Vain:

Blacks in 1994 were the victims 1,100,490 violent crimes of which 12 percent reported a white attacker or 135,360.

Subtract that from the 1,100,490 violent crimes where a black was victimized..... 965,130 incidences of black or other minorities victimizing blacks (excluding hispanics who are counted as white in offender stats.) which is less than 1,140,670 white victims reporting a black attacker



So as long as my math is good, and the 965,130 incidence of black on black violent crimes is less than the 1,140,670 black on white violent crimes, I am correct to state based on the data given by the NCVS that in 1994 there were more black on white violent crimes than black on black



Not talking rate , merely talking overall numbers.


Yeah, I think that was where I went off the track, confusing "number" and "rate".

See, learn somethin' new every day.
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