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Posted: 8/22/2017 1:19:27 PM EDT
Couple thought here.

There is a lot of water and blood under the bridge by this point, but thinking about the end game....

1. We invaded 16 years ago because the Taliban ALLOWED/FACILITATED Al Qaeda to set up camps in Afg. Prior to that we were not directly threatened by the Taliban
2. Taliban has in the past, and perhaps will in the future, shut down all poppy production out of religious reasons
3. Taliban will kill off IS and Al Qaeda. They are currently warring with one another while we are warring with all three.
4. Taliban is the implementer of the education system in most of Afg. The Afg govt hands the edu resources over the Taliban and the Taliban runs the schools in most of the county.

So why are we fighting the Taliban?

Sounds like we achieve a good end if we support them and ensure that they take back over the country??

Dont get me wrong, Im all in favor of making a parking lot out of the Middle East. However since we cant use a policy that works ever, why would this be a horrible approach?
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:25:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Would it be a bad idea if Trump negotiated with Mexico to get the cartels outta USA, and Mex, and get them over into AFG to deal with this shit so we don't have to.  The cartels would control that shit hole in a fucking hot minute with all that poppy over there, and our .mil can come home
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:43:19 PM EDT
[#2]
They harbored bin laden...


And their oppression of women and "education" system (which consists of reading the the kuran all day) and their destruction of historical monuments.... but they are, in reality, no worse than any other option than kill or convert them all....
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:51:43 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Couple thought here.

There is a lot of water and blood under the bridge by this point, but thinking about the end game....

1. We invaded 16 years ago because the Taliban ALLOWED/FACILITATED Al Qaeda to set up camps in Afg. Prior to that we were not directly threatened by the Taliban
2. Taliban has in the past, and perhaps will in the future, shut down all poppy production out of religious reasons
3. Taliban will kill off IS and Al Qaeda. They are currently warring with one another while we are warring with all three.
4. Taliban is the implementer of the education system in most of Afg. The Afg govt hands the edu resources over the Taliban and the Taliban runs the schools in most of the county.

So why are we fighting the Taliban?

Sounds like we achieve a good end if we support them and ensure that they take back over the country??

Dont get me wrong, Im all in favor of making a parking lot out of the Middle East. However since we cant use a policy that works ever, why would this be a horrible approach?
View Quote


The Taliban does exist. But it seems to be more of an umbrella term than anything else. I didn't fight "Taliban". I was fighting a different group that was primarily working in my AO.

These people are tribal. Their priorities are typically:
1.Myself
2.Family
3.Tribe

There is no national identity and western values will not work unless we completely change them...(Through the womb and death).

When I played hide and go seek with Berghdal, I ended up in a village that had not seen any American troops before. They thought we were Russian.  That was 2009/10 IIRC. So about 8 years into the war....8 years..completely untouched.

We can buy troop safety for a short time through COIN/Bribes...but long term change? The only currency that will buy that is Time. I don't think Americans are willing to invest decades into war.

Then again...most Americans will never serve..so I don't know why they care...but that is a whole different issue.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:58:20 PM EDT
[#4]
The Taliban only existed for ~5 years before the attack and never had full control of the country. Furthermore,there were many rival factions under a large umbrella and all of these were happy to take Arab and Paki money to support Al Qaeda and oppose what was known as,derogitarily though the nuance was lost on the West,as the Northern Alliance.

  This notion that Mullah Omar and his cronies were sitting around in bliss while Al Qaeda unbeknownst to them planned and launched the 9/11 attacks is bunk. It is also untrue that the core of the Taliban had ever been US allies,let alone the bullshit about OBL being an American asset and ally.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:03:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Seems to me that every American soldier that died in that shithole, died for no reason at all.

A terrible waste of resources.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:12:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Would it be a bad idea if Trump negotiated with Mexico to get the cartels outta USA, and Mex, and get them over into AFG to deal with this shit so we don't have to.  The cartels would control that shit hole in a fucking hot minute with all that poppy over there, and our .mil can come home
View Quote
I doubt that there is a single narcotics cartel leader that would want to move from Mexico City to Kabul anymore than you would want to move from NYC to Jalalabad. Regardless, why would the cartel care if ISIS/Al Qaeda/Abu Sayyuf/Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood or any other terrorist organization set up training facilities and command/control to stage attacks against the US (such as the 9-11 attacks) as long as they (the Mexicans that you want to control it) controlled the poppy/cocaine production/distribution and the terrorists allowed the Mexican cartels to do so unhindered? Your plan fails on all levels.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:15:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
They harbored bin laden...


And their oppression of women and "education" system (which consists of reading the the kuran all day) and their destruction of historical monuments.... but they are, in reality, no worse than any other option than kill or convert them all....
View Quote
I agree with most of your post. Except, it wasn't Taliban that destroyed historical monuments. That was ISIS. A totally different group. As far as everything I've read, ISIS is the only Muslim terrorist group that has purposely destroyed historical monuments.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:21:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:31:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Our commitment against the Taliban also has to do with our protection of Pakistan where the Taliban are practicing an insurgency.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 3:22:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I doubt that there is a single narcotics cartel leader that would want to move from Mexico City to Kabul anymore than you would want to move from NYC to Jalalabad. Regardless, why would the cartel care if ISIS/Al Qaeda/Abu Sayyuf/Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood or any other terrorist organization set up training facilities and command/control to stage attacks against the US (such as the 9-11 attacks) as long as they (the Mexicans that you want to control it) controlled the poppy/cocaine production/distribution and the terrorists allowed the Mexican cartels to do so unhindered? Your plan fails on all levels.
View Quote
Not a plan, just a thought.  I'm just tired of American blood being shed.  Last night's address had a whole lot of youth in the audience.  That's the youth that should be shaping american society, not the shits we have running around reshaping and redefining america.  Maybe I'm just getting older and seeing a lot of bs at every corner.

But, to respond to your question, I was thinking it would be in the cartels interest to expand to a new part of the world.  In exchange for USA staying out of cartel business, cartels make sure terrorists are not doing what you mentioned.  If USA doesn't have a reason to be there, cartels are free to operate and make money.  Let the cartels and the terrorists fight with each other.  Those two groups deserve each other and can certainly one up each other in they murderous ways
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 3:56:48 PM EDT
[#11]
I would suggest that the Taliban shutting down poppy production was a short term political move, as opposed to an indication that they truly sought to eradicate opium production.  Opium has a larger impact on the Afghan economy today than cocaine did on Columbia in its heyday.  

I'd further suggest that, even if we wiped out 100% of afghan poppy production for the next three years, there would still be tons and tons of opium.  It has a long shelf life, and there are warehouses full of it.    

Its also an important store of value, and it works like an alternative currency.  Sort of like dollars and gold.  Which would you rather be holding if the government was unstable?  

The Taliban is largely made up of poorly educated, religious nuts from rural areas.  Many of those that can actually read have read nothing other than the Q and religious commentary associated with or relating to the Q.  The idea that they will abandon religiously motivated actors in Afghan in favor of helping the US limit terrorism is foolish, in my estimation.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 2:45:46 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I agree with most of your post. Except, it wasn't Taliban that destroyed historical monuments. That was ISIS. A totally different group. As far as everything I've read, ISIS is the only Muslim terrorist group that has purposely destroyed historical monuments.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
They harbored bin laden...


And their oppression of women and "education" system (which consists of reading the the kuran all day) and their destruction of historical monuments.... but they are, in reality, no worse than any other option than kill or convert them all....
I agree with most of your post. Except, it wasn't Taliban that destroyed historical monuments. That was ISIS. A totally different group. As far as everything I've read, ISIS is the only Muslim terrorist group that has purposely destroyed historical monuments.
The post below yours....was exactly the one I was thinking of but there were more. They started it.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 3:02:27 AM EDT
[#13]
Afghanistan isn't in the middle east.

They have a shit ton or resources and China has already moved in just like they moved into Africa.

It's always about money.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 5:21:03 AM EDT
[#14]
The Globalist Elites are heavily invested in the illicit drug trade, the cultivation, processing, distribution and money laundering. Their ability now to manufacture Fentanyl may impact poppy cultivation in Afghanistan some but I doubt it.

These NWO assholes want a dramatic reduction in global population. Deadly narcotics is just one tool in their bag, a very lucrative one.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 6:00:26 AM EDT
[#15]
Its not our job to build up a country after tearing them down, but we play the cards we are dealt.
If we allow AFG to fall into extremism, I'm pretty sure their next goal will be to take the fight stateside.

I think it would just be Iraq on repeat with just another faction of religious extremism.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 6:25:24 AM EDT
[#16]
No American life should be lost fighting any of the goat fuckers in that part of the world.  We got OBL, that was the mission.  

If they take their form of crazy and threaten us, then yep level the country.  If they act like the DPRK, level the country.

Right now, AFG does not do those things and don't have the ability, so IDGAF about AFG.

The people have generations of inbred stupid and you can't fix that.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:10:51 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I would suggest that the Taliban shutting down poppy production was a short term political move, as opposed to an indication that they truly sought to eradicate opium production.  Opium has a larger impact on the Afghan economy today than cocaine did on Columbia in its heyday.  

I'd further suggest that, even if we wiped out 100% of afghan poppy production for the next three years, there would still be tons and tons of opium.  It has a long shelf life, and there are warehouses full of it.    

Its also an important store of value, and it works like an alternative currency.  Sort of like dollars and gold.  Which would you rather be holding if the government was unstable?  

The Taliban is largely made up of poorly educated, religious nuts from rural areas.  Many of those that can actually read have read nothing other than the Q and religious commentary associated with or relating to the Q.  The idea that they will abandon religiously motivated actors in Afghan in favor of helping the US limit terrorism is foolish, in my estimation.  
View Quote
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:14:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
No American life should be lost fighting any of the goat fuckers in that part of the world.  We got OBL, that was the mission.  

If they take their form of crazy and threaten us, then yep level the country.  If they act like the DPRK, level the country.

Right now, AFG does not do those things and don't have the ability, so IDGAF about AFG.

The people have generations of inbred stupid and you can't fix that.
View Quote
Agreed, across the board.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:33:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The Taliban does exist. But it seems to be more of an umbrella term than anything else. I didn't fight "Taliban". I was fighting a different group that was primarily working in my AO.

These people are tribal. Their priorities are typically:
1.Myself
2.Family
3.Tribe

There is no national identity and western values will not work unless we completely change them...(Through the womb and death).

When I played hide and go seek with Berghdal, I ended up in a village that had not seen any American troops before. They thought we were Russian.  That was 2009/10 IIRC. So about 8 years into the war....8 years..completely untouched.

We can buy troop safety for a short time through COIN/Bribes...but long term change? The only currency that will buy that is Time. I don't think Americans are willing to invest decades into war.

Then again...most Americans will never serve..so I don't know why they care...but that is a whole different issue.
View Quote
Thank you
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