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Posted: 5/25/2005 10:32:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 10:40:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 10:44:13 AM EDT
Is your point that drug use has been around for thousands of years?
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 10:48:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By axmurderer:
Is your point that drug use has been around for thousands of years?




My point is that the Chinese even went so far as mass beheadings to stem the tide of this evil and sadistic drug.
People who advocate the legalization of any opiate are fucking insane!

There is no good use for opiates except for the terminally ill.
Or people who are suffering massive amounts of pain.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 10:55:43 AM EDT
The Chinese tend to behead for anything they don't like, including democracy.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 10:55:54 AM EDT
but....but...but..... drugs is a victimless crime
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:00:17 AM EDT
Define DRUGS.

Alchohol is a drug. Why it is legal I have no idea. Oh yeah, that's right, the people DEMANDED it be legal. But surely they wanted it for health reasons...

And we all know alchohol is a victimless crime, right?

Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:01:13 AM EDT
Yeah, I think ALL physically addictive drugs should be outlawed. Tobbacco and Alcohol included.

There's no ligitimate use for any of them.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:11:48 AM EDT
"A fear of narcotics is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"


If I wanted opiates Id go see doctor quacko and get the govt to buy them for me. Some good those drug laws are doing....
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:16:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2005 11:16:55 AM EDT by tyman]

April 1994 Kurt Cobain, lead singer of the Seattle-based alternative rock band, Nirvana, dies of heroin-related suicide.



yaaaaaay

It's good for something at least...
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:18:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:18:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tyman:

April 1994 Kurt Cobain, lead singer of the Seattle-based alternative rock band, Nirvana, dies of heroin-related suicide.



yaaaaaay

It's good for something at least...



He didn't do it, Courtney did it!!
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:19:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2005 11:20:36 AM EDT by sgtar15]
We use opium every single day in many differant forms.

www.chamisamesa.net/morphine.html

It is already legal and thank GOD that it is.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:21:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By guardian855:
but....but...but..... drugs is a victimless crime



Umm. Do you think all drug laws should stay the same as they are now? Legalize anything or keep what's illiegal illegal?
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:22:11 AM EDT
if you believe that everyone is as weak-minded and weak-willed as you, then your support for drug banning is logical. however, to be consistent, you should also ban cinnamon, which serves no constructive purpose, and, along with other spices, has caused more wars than all drugs combined.

and then there's tea, which is what brought opium to china in the first place.

so why aren't you an anti-tea evangelist?

Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:24:16 AM EDT
I'm flexible on this issue. They can completely legalize them all, to include alcohol and tobacco. Or they can prohibit them all. what i do not support are half measures like decriminalization and existing laws that allow some people to use their prefered recreational drug while denying others.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:28:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2005 11:29:25 AM EDT by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:30:08 AM EDT
has anyone else got the munchies all of a sudden or is it just me??


Sgatr15
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:32:35 AM EDT
I'm addicted to food.

I'll just die if I don't get it and the withdrawal symptoms are horrendous
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:34:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2005 11:37:57 AM EDT by H46Driver]

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By axmurderer:
Is your point that drug use has been around for thousands of years?




My point is that the Chinese even went so far as mass beheadings to stem the tide of this evil and sadistic drug.
People who advocate the legalization of any opiate are fucking insane!



I don't think that I understand your point here. The Chinese imposed the death penalty on opium users and they still used it. Doesn't seem like prohibition worked too well.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


There is no good use for opiates except for the terminally ill.
Or people who are suffering massive amounts of pain.



I agree with you here, but lots of things are legal that don't have a good use (at least in my opinion) like Hummer H2s, scrappel, and NASCAR.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:36:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
has anyone else got the munchies all of a sudden or is it just me??


Sgatr15


------------------------------------------------------------------
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:37:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By beaterAR:
"A fear of narcotics is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"


If I wanted opiates Id go see doctor quacko and get the govt to buy them for me. Some good those drug laws are doing....




Yeah Mr one post, who are you by day here LOL
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:37:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2005 11:37:35 AM EDT by guardian855]

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:

Originally Posted By guardian855:
but....but...but..... drugs is a victimless crime



Umm. Do you think all drug laws should stay the same as they are now? Legalize anything or keep what's illiegal illegal?



I recognize that laws are accepted social practices and norms. Why is alchohol legal and marijuana illegal? Because we as a society feel that way and that's the way it is. It's tradition. One could argue about marijuna

Now, in my mind there is no arguing about the hardcore drugs like heroin, pcp, crack, meth, etc. There is no room in our society for those drugs, and those drugs have been legislated in one form or another for hundreds of years (China beheaded opium addicts starting in the late 1700s)
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:38:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tyman:

April 1994 Kurt Cobain, lead singer of the Seattle-based alternative rock band, Nirvana, dies of heroin-related suicide. (with a shotgun blast to the front of his head )



yaaaaaay

It's good for something at least...

Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:44:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2005 11:49:22 AM EDT by t-stox]
BLAH BLAH BLAH! First off not all drugs are equal. Marijuania is not Heroin, nor is mushrooms. Yet basically all substances are banned. If sex was a pill it would be ILLEGAL! So you think what? we should become like China or saudi Arabia? The truth will come but for us Americans it will come SLOOOOOOOOOW. We dont have the balls to do what is daring. What will happen is this, Europe, canada and some of latin america (In columbia they already have legalised small amounts) will DECRIMINALISE drugs, and aim for "harm reduction" Meaning most harm to drugs addicts comes from their "illegality" and not the drugs themselves. this will work, Why? because it already has! Then slowly people will see that we have two paths to take either become like Saudi Arabia and Singapore With No freedom and draconian laws or take the path of Europe (you know, where our culture came from) and canada and go for harm reduction. IT will slowly happen as we see that in these countries all the Drug problems dissappear as they already are. But in the mean time we'll have to suffer and lose many many personal freedoms while the state wages it's war on it's own people. The state now can basically take your property without a trial or conviction, the "leeway" given to spy on people with warrents is much broader now. Did you know taking your garbage out 10 minutes before pick up is now considered "probable cause?", Did you know that if you have a high electric bill this is probable cause? Did you know that helicopters take IR readings of houses at RANDOM and if you house is "hot" that is probable cause? There is a huge network of informants that rat people out to the state. Many people die each year from botched raids. Many innocent people get their houses ransacked because of bad information given by "rats." Millions of people each year have their car searched at random roadblocks without real suspicion. What are they looking for ? pirated CD's? The worst part about it is, once those rights are gone we'll never get them back. And if the state can do that to drug users they can do it to anyone who does things they take a dim view of. Maybe anyone caught with a sawed off shotgun should have his house confiscated and their children taken away, sounds reasonable to me! After all they'll do that if you get caught with pot plants.......
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 11:52:42 AM EDT
Actually I lurk alot. Use this forum mostly for EE and information. GD sometimes to kill time.

But the criminals out there trying to put a gun to a fellow humans head and force them to live by their standards, disgusted and disheartened me enough to join the forum just so I add one more person to the numbers of sensable people who have a concept of the responsabilites that freedom and liberty entail.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 12:02:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
has anyone else got the munchies all of a sudden or is it just me??


Sgatr15



No, but maybe in 18 minutes.....
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 12:16:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2005 12:21:44 PM EDT by XD_Fan]

Originally Posted By guardian855:

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:

Originally Posted By guardian855:
but....but...but..... drugs is a victimless crime



Umm. Do you think all drug laws should stay the same as they are now? Legalize anything or keep what's illiegal illegal?



I recognize that laws are accepted social practices and norms. Why is alchohol legal and marijuana illegal? Because we as a society feel that way and that's the way it is. It's tradition. One could argue about marijuna

Now, in my mind there is no arguing about the hardcore drugs guns like heroin, pcp, crack, meth AR-15s, AK-47s, etc. There is no room in our society for those drugs guns, and those drugs guns have been legislated in one form or another for hundreds of years 9China beheaded opium addicts starting in the late 1700s) (Hitler killed the Jews and other after prohibiting the possesion of guns)



Fixed it for you.

I'm sorry caffine, alcohol and tobacco are every bit as bad as the rest of the "recreational" drugs. The toll of death alcohol and tobacco have taken in the past year is far and away worse than anything happening with meth, crack, etc. Legalize drugs, tax the shit out of them (like we do alcohol and tobacco) and let the addicts off themselves if they don't have any more self-control than that. Think of it as evolution in action.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 12:18:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
has anyone else got the munchies all of a sudden or is it just me??


Sgatr15



Link Posted: 5/25/2005 12:25:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By t-stox:
BLAH BLAH BLAH! First off not all drugs are equal. Marijuania is not Heroin, nor is mushrooms. Yet basically all substances are banned. If sex was a pill it would be ILLEGAL! So you think what? we should become like China or saudi Arabia? The truth will come but for us Americans it will come SLOOOOOOOOOW. We dont have the balls to do what is daring. What will happen is this, Europe, canada and some of latin america (In columbia they already have legalised small amounts) will DECRIMINALISE drugs, and aim for "harm reduction" Meaning most harm to drugs addicts comes from their "illegality" and not the drugs themselves. this will work, Why? because it already has! Then slowly people will see that we have two paths to take either become like Saudi Arabia and Singapore With No freedom and draconian laws or take the path of Europe (you know, where our culture came from) and canada and go for harm reduction. IT will slowly happen as we see that in these countries all the Drug problems dissappear as they already are. But in the mean time we'll have to suffer and lose many many personal freedoms while the state wages it's war on it's own people. The state now can basically take your property without a trial or conviction, the "leeway" given to spy on people with warrents is much broader now. Did you know taking your garbage out 10 minutes before pick up is now considered "probable cause?", Did you know that if you have a high electric bill this is probable cause? Did you know that helicopters take IR readings of houses at RANDOM and if you house is "hot" that is probable cause? There is a huge network of informants that rat people out to the state. Many people die each year from botched raids. Many innocent people get their houses ransacked because of bad information given by "rats." Millions of people each year have their car searched at random roadblocks without real suspicion. What are they looking for ? pirated CD's? The worst part about it is, once those rights are gone we'll never get them back. And if the state can do that to drug users they can do it to anyone who does things they take a dim view of. Maybe anyone caught with a sawed off shotgun should have his house confiscated and their children taken away, sounds reasonable to me! After all they'll do that if you get caught with pot plants.......



---------------------------------------
Nice post. Maybe Canada can teach us a little about health care too. We sure as hell need it.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 12:27:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 12:29:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Incontrovertible Fact #1: Anyone who wants drugs can get them.
Incontrovertible Fact #2: Only by making drugs illegal have we contributed to general criminality.

By making some drugs illegal, we have driven up their prices and made more money for illicit dealers and everyone who works in the illict drug supply chain.

While Wahlgreens and CVS pharmacists rarely engage in gunplay over disputes, illicit dealers commit violent crimes to maintain their exclusivity of territory. Illicit consumers commit crimes to pay the illicit dealers' higher prices.

By making all drugs legal but controlled, like alcohol and tobacco are now, we let people take responsibility for themselves and the results of their own lifestyle. Everyone knows that tobacco is universally physically addictive, as is cocaine, opium and methamphetamine. With that knowledge, addiction to any of those substances are not diseases or sicknesses as they're commonly defined, but simply personal failures.

If people choose to fail when the substances are illegal, some will certainly choose to do so when they're legal, but we also have the option of denying them the protection of the ADA or any other legislation or program aimed at people whose health, access or employability has been affected by reasons beyond their own control.

Legalize it all, and let Darwin take over.



+1 Yep
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 12:30:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2005 12:31:33 PM EDT by jquillen1985]

Originally Posted By guardian855:

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:

Originally Posted By guardian855:
but....but...but..... drugs is a victimless crime



Umm. Do you think all drug laws should stay the same as they are now? Legalize anything or keep what's illiegal illegal?



I recognize that laws are accepted social practices and norms. Why is alchohol legal and marijuana illegal? Because we as a society feel that way and that's the way it is. It's tradition. One could argue about marijuna




Acutally it's because of a little more than that.

Why?
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 12:41:04 PM EDT
Since the old thread was abandoned, I'll re-post this here.


Not that interjecting any truth, common sense, rationale or the obvious is going to have any affect to the singled-minded embecilic among us, but here goes.

This article is pointing out two things - 1) That making the mere pocession of anything that may have the potential to do harm illegal is unConstitutional. 2) That the war on drugs has cost all of us an exuberant amount of money and has been wholely unsuccessful.

Moreover, one of the results of the war on drugs has been more intrusive, rights-reducing laws that have the potential to be used against anyone. Such as, being able to use military assets against it's own citizens. The war on drugs has done nothing to prevent use, abuse or trafficking.

Some of you people seem to fall into the illusion that if you make something illegal it will somehow magically result in an absolute abolishment of that activity. And, the one posters moronic rationale that then nothing should outlawed is just that, moronic. The unsuccessful war on drugs proves this point just as the AWB proved it had no affect on crime.

The point is, the gov't has NO right to tell anyone what they can or cannot do to their body. Be it alcohol, tobacco, hydrogenated fats, drugs or anything else. Simply legalizing majiuana and controlling its manufacture and distribution the same as tobacco would alleviate a huge burden on our society, create jobs and tax revenue, and reduce prison overcrowding and the criminalizing of citizens. It WILL also reduce crime. No more black market vendors. The amount of money drug traficking produces is a huge magnet for individuals to take up as a vocation when they can't make the NBA.

The real problem with legalizing and controlling certain drugs? You guessed it, loss of power of certain individuals. Loss of a platform for certain Napoleanitis-inflicted politicians to campaign. Reduction in an already over-inflated domestic military force (ATF, FBI and the rest of the alphabet agencies), loss of an ability to justify huge budgets, etc, etc.

Someone smoking weed or snorting up a line of coke has no affect on me unless that person causes an action while under the influence, the very same as with alcohol. However, every one of you are effecting the death of my planet every time you drive your car. I don't care if you're a tree-hugging, save the three-eyed little-peckered barn owl in bum-fuck Oregon activist, or not. The fact is fossil fuels, along with a lot of other things impact everyones lives.

The only time that what YOU think someone should or should not do to their own person only matters when it is you or your minor children.
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