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Posted: 12/12/2013 6:58:21 AM EDT
I have bought a fair amount of stuff from individuals in the past that involved shipping.  Mostly musical instruments and firearms.

I suppose I have been lucky up to now as I have never gotten a damaged item or had a problem.

I recently bought a Bolt Gun on Gunbroker that showed up damaged.  It appears to me that it was shipped that way as the box it was shipped in showed no signs of damage or stress.

Seller maintains it was 100% when he shipped.  I think he is full of shit.  

How does this play out with Fed-Ex claims if seller is unwilling to help?

twofish
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:03:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 7:03:44 AM EDT by rebel_rifle]
If the box shows no signs of being damaged and it has not been re-boxed, I would think the shipper is going to tell you to go pound sand.

I am with you, it sure appears that the seller has been less than truthful. How were the pics that he sent before he shipped? Do any of them show the areas that are now damaged?

I think your next step is to dispute it within Gunbrokers rules with the seller.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:07:58 AM EDT
Did the FFL open it?
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:08:21 AM EDT
Pics showed both sides of gun but were not close or hi-res enough to show the damage.

I asked seller to send full size images of the pics rather than the reduced ones on GB.  Seller said his son does pics for him and son deletes images after listing is up on GB.

So no hi-res pics....
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:09:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 7:14:16 AM EDT by twofish]
Yes, my FFL and I opened it together.  Damage was there.  My FFL would be the one to verify that the gun was damaged when received.  I feel like Fed-Ex is gonna say if the box was not damaged they have no responsibility and I really can't disagree.

Seller is being an ass.  Siad send it back and if it passes his inspection he would refund purchase price less shipping and FFL fees. By the time I pay to ship back that would put me about a total of $100.00 bucks in the hole just for the priveledge of looking at a fucking damaged gun.  I told seller that was not going to happen.

twofish
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:11:52 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By twofish:
Pics showed both sides of gun but were not close or hi-res enough to show the damage.

I asked seller to send full size images of the pics rather than the reduced ones on GB.  Seller said his son does pics for him and son deletes images after listing is up on GB.

So no hi-res pics....
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Sounds like you were duped, but then again you also made the decision to buy it with crappy pics. What did his ad say? You may have an out if he at least described it as 100% or whatever percentage he used.

Did you pay with a credit card? How was the sellers feedback? Does he have any feedback?

Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:12:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 7:12:41 AM EDT by supermo]
The person that shipped the gun has to make the claim. He paid for it and shipped it, it is his so far as insurance claims go. Carrier will tell you that as well.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:17:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 7:20:24 AM EDT by twofish]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By supermo:
The person that shipped the gun has to make the claim. He paid for it and shipped it, it is his so far as insurance claims go. Carrier will tell you that as well.
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I have copied sellers FFL on everything.  Seller used FFL to ship gun but apparently gun was already packaged when FFL received for shipping and he did not see it prior to shipping to deny or confirm any damage.

Sellers FFL has contacted Fed-Ex about claim but I really don't believe Fed-Ex damaged the gun.  Seller claims if Fed Ex pays claim that they will only pay full price of sale for claim, Fed Ex. then takes the gun and auctions to recoup some of the expense.  

I have no idea about this but it sounds like bullshit to me.  I guess I need to talk to a Fed-Ex rep to verify or deny.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:24:06 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By twofish:


I have copied sellers FFL on everything.  Seller used FFL to ship gun but apparently gun was already packaged when FFL received for shipping and he did not see it prior to shipping to deny or confirm any damage.

Sellers FFL has contacted Fed-Ex about claim but I really don't believe Fed-Ex damaged the gun.  Seller claims if Fed Ex pays claim that they will only pay full price of sale for claim, Fed Ex. then takes the gun and auctions to recoup some of the expense.  

I have no idea about this but it sounds like bullshit to me.  I guess I need to talk to a Fed-Ex rep to verify or deny.
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Originally Posted By twofish:
Originally Posted By supermo:
The person that shipped the gun has to make the claim. He paid for it and shipped it, it is his so far as insurance claims go. Carrier will tell you that as well.


I have copied sellers FFL on everything.  Seller used FFL to ship gun but apparently gun was already packaged when FFL received for shipping and he did not see it prior to shipping to deny or confirm any damage.

Sellers FFL has contacted Fed-Ex about claim but I really don't believe Fed-Ex damaged the gun.  Seller claims if Fed Ex pays claim that they will only pay full price of sale for claim, Fed Ex. then takes the gun and auctions to recoup some of the expense.  

I have no idea about this but it sounds like bullshit to me.  I guess I need to talk to a Fed-Ex rep to verify or deny.



The seller is bullshitting you!

Right now, I would start with Gunbroker and dispute it.

You never answered, how did you pay? Check, mo, credit card?

Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:29:44 AM EDT
Isn't it only about $20 to USPS a rifle? You don't need an outbound FFL for a rifle shipment.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:31:41 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:



The seller is bullshitting you!

Right now, I would start with Gunbroker and dispute it.

You never answered, how did you pay? Check, mo, credit card?

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Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:
Originally Posted By twofish:
Originally Posted By supermo:
The person that shipped the gun has to make the claim. He paid for it and shipped it, it is his so far as insurance claims go. Carrier will tell you that as well.


I have copied sellers FFL on everything.  Seller used FFL to ship gun but apparently gun was already packaged when FFL received for shipping and he did not see it prior to shipping to deny or confirm any damage.

Sellers FFL has contacted Fed-Ex about claim but I really don't believe Fed-Ex damaged the gun.  Seller claims if Fed Ex pays claim that they will only pay full price of sale for claim, Fed Ex. then takes the gun and auctions to recoup some of the expense.  

I have no idea about this but it sounds like bullshit to me.  I guess I need to talk to a Fed-Ex rep to verify or deny.



The seller is bullshitting you!

Right now, I would start with Gunbroker and dispute it.

You never answered, how did you pay? Check, mo, credit card?



Paid by USPS Money Order.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:36:18 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By QwikKotaTx:
Isn't it only about $20 to USPS a rifle? You don't need an outbound FFL for a rifle shipment.
View Quote


I understand that.  Seller charged $40.00 to ship.  I had to pay my FFL 25.00 to receive.  Then I add another 25.00 or so to ship back and that is $90.00 bucks in just to look at the gun.

Then I am not 100% confident that seller would refund all my original purchase price less shipping....fucking people.  I guess I have been lucky up to this point as I have bought alot of stuff and never had a problem.

I\
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:37:45 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By twofish:


I have copied sellers FFL on everything.  Seller used FFL to ship gun but apparently gun was already packaged when FFL received for shipping and he did not see it prior to shipping to deny or confirm any damage.

Sellers FFL has contacted Fed-Ex about claim but I really don't believe Fed-Ex damaged the gun.  Seller claims if Fed Ex pays claim that they will only pay full price of sale for claim, Fed Ex. then takes the gun and auctions to recoup some of the expense.  

I have no idea about this but it sounds like bullshit to me.  I guess I need to talk to a Fed-Ex rep to verify or deny.
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Originally Posted By twofish:
Originally Posted By supermo:
The person that shipped the gun has to make the claim. He paid for it and shipped it, it is his so far as insurance claims go. Carrier will tell you that as well.


I have copied sellers FFL on everything.  Seller used FFL to ship gun but apparently gun was already packaged when FFL received for shipping and he did not see it prior to shipping to deny or confirm any damage.

Sellers FFL has contacted Fed-Ex about claim but I really don't believe Fed-Ex damaged the gun.  Seller claims if Fed Ex pays claim that they will only pay full price of sale for claim, Fed Ex. then takes the gun and auctions to recoup some of the expense.  

I have no idea about this but it sounds like bullshit to me.  I guess I need to talk to a Fed-Ex rep to verify or deny.



I may be wrong, but the seller's FFL would have had to verify the serial number if he was involved at all.  Like I said, I could be wrong but I always thought FFLs had to record every transaction through their hands.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:39:09 AM EDT
Start with Gunbroker.

Like the other poster said, the seller has to initiate the claim with FedEx. I bet he doesn't.

If you had used a cc, you could dispute the payment to him, but that's not the case.

Does the seller have ample feedback? How is the feedback? My guess is, he has done this before. This is why you need to contact Gunbroker ASAP.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:41:35 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Pharcta2:



I may be wrong, but the seller's FFL would have had to verify the serial number if he was involved at all.  Like I said, I could be wrong but I always thought FFLs had to record every transaction through their hands.
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Originally Posted By Pharcta2:
Originally Posted By twofish:
Originally Posted By supermo:
The person that shipped the gun has to make the claim. He paid for it and shipped it, it is his so far as insurance claims go. Carrier will tell you that as well.


I have copied sellers FFL on everything.  Seller used FFL to ship gun but apparently gun was already packaged when FFL received for shipping and he did not see it prior to shipping to deny or confirm any damage.

Sellers FFL has contacted Fed-Ex about claim but I really don't believe Fed-Ex damaged the gun.  Seller claims if Fed Ex pays claim that they will only pay full price of sale for claim, Fed Ex. then takes the gun and auctions to recoup some of the expense.  

I have no idea about this but it sounds like bullshit to me.  I guess I need to talk to a Fed-Ex rep to verify or deny.



I may be wrong, but the seller's FFL would have had to verify the serial number if he was involved at all.  Like I said, I could be wrong but I always thought FFLs had to record every transaction through their hands.



I don't believe in this case the sending FFL had to record the serial number, he was only shipping it as a courtesy for the seller as the seller is not required to ship it through an FFL, it only has to be received by an FFL as it was an interstate sale.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:44:37 AM EDT
I have shipped a lot of long guns.  Usually damage shows on the box...

Exactly what sort of damage are we talking about?

A bent barrel?  Scratches?  A broken Stock?

Be specific here, and post a pic or two.  Also be sure to save ALL of the packaging.

.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:57:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 7:58:20 AM EDT by NorthPolar]
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Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:



I don't believe in this case the sending FFL had to record the serial number, he was only shipping it as a courtesy for the seller as the seller is not required to ship it through an FFL, it only has to be received by an FFL as it was an interstate sale.
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Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:
Originally Posted By Pharcta2:
Originally Posted By twofish:
Originally Posted By supermo:
The person that shipped the gun has to make the claim. He paid for it and shipped it, it is his so far as insurance claims go. Carrier will tell you that as well.


I have copied sellers FFL on everything.  Seller used FFL to ship gun but apparently gun was already packaged when FFL received for shipping and he did not see it prior to shipping to deny or confirm any damage.

Sellers FFL has contacted Fed-Ex about claim but I really don't believe Fed-Ex damaged the gun.  Seller claims if Fed Ex pays claim that they will only pay full price of sale for claim, Fed Ex. then takes the gun and auctions to recoup some of the expense.  

I have no idea about this but it sounds like bullshit to me.  I guess I need to talk to a Fed-Ex rep to verify or deny.



I may be wrong, but the seller's FFL would have had to verify the serial number if he was involved at all.  Like I said, I could be wrong but I always thought FFLs had to record every transaction through their hands.



I don't believe in this case the sending FFL had to record the serial number, he was only shipping it as a courtesy for the seller as the seller is not required to ship it through an FFL, it only has to be received by an FFL as it was an interstate sale.


IF the FFL shipped it, it had to have been logged in.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 8:09:23 AM EDT
Seller had good feedback on GB with around 40 transactions.  I have asked FFL if you personally saw the rifle prior to shipping and he has yet to respond.

Add described gun as unfired. He bought it new, put it in his safe, never fired and was now selling.  Described as New Old Stock 100% since he had hever fired it.

Also described it in e-mails as the same.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 8:19:10 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By twofish:
Seller had good feedback on GB with around 40 transactions.  I have asked FFL if you personally saw the rifle prior to shipping and he has yet to respond.

Add described gun as unfired. He bought it new, put it in his safe, never fired and was now selling.  Described as New Old Stock 100% since he had hever fired it.

Also described it in e-mails as the same.
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Being as he stated 100%, you may have him by the short hairs. Either he damaged it or it was damaged in shipment. If the box/packaging shows no damage, i doubt fedex will pay. That leaves it with the seller.

As to the shipping FFL, I doubt he wants to get involved. Especially if the seller deals with him on a regular basis. If that guy did not see the rifle prior to his sending it, that leaves it on the door step of the seller.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 8:29:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 10:01:56 AM EDT by twofish]
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Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:



Being as he stated 100%, you may have him by the short hairs. Either he damaged it or it was damaged in shipment. If the box/packaging shows no damage, i doubt fedex will pay. That leaves it with the seller.

As to the shipping FFL, I doubt he wants to get involved. Especially if the seller deals with him on a regular basis. If that guy did not see the rifle prior to his sending it, that leaves it on the door step of the seller.
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Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:
Originally Posted By twofish:
Seller had good feedback on GB with around 40 transactions.  I have asked FFL if you personally saw the rifle prior to shipping and he has yet to respond.

Add described gun as unfired. He bought it new, put it in his safe, never fired and was now selling.  Described as New Old Stock 100% since he had hever fired it.

Also described it in e-mails as the same.



Being as he stated 100%, you may have him by the short hairs. Either he damaged it or it was damaged in shipment. If the box/packaging shows no damage, i doubt fedex will pay. That leaves it with the seller.

As to the shipping FFL, I doubt he wants to get involved. Especially if the seller deals with him on a regular basis. If that guy did not see the rifle prior to his sending it, that leaves it on the door step of the seller.


Yea and I don't know how these things play out with GB.  I don't know how involved they will get but I am going to find out.  

Quote in e-mail from seller.   " There was NO damage when the rifle was packed and shipped. The rifle was in like new unfired condition.Just as stated in my description."

Starting to get the feeling that I have very little recourse unless GB will take him to task...

A photo from the listing:



What I got


Link Posted: 12/12/2013 10:42:32 AM EDT
So had anyone made a claim with Gunbroker?
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 10:47:11 AM EDT
I am looking at the before and after pics on my iPad, so I can blow up the first pic.

There is clearly no damage in the first pic, but there obviously is in the pic of what you received. Somewhere the damage occurred.

Good luck on getting it resolved.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 11:08:35 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:
I am looking at the before and after pics on my iPad, so I can blow up the first pic.

There is clearly no damage in the first pic, but there obviously is in the pic of what you received. Somewhere the damage occurred.

Good luck on getting it resolved.
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Thanks Reb,

What is baffling though is that there is no apparent damage to the packaging that the gun came in.  Gunbroker does not look like they are going to be much help as they don't seem to care about much except straight up fraud (read I paid for it but never got it)  everything else I have read sounds like it must be worked out between buyer and seller or it does not get worked out.

I would like to think Fed Ex will have something positive to say buy I am not getting my hopes up.

Best I can figure Pic in ad was taken prior to damage and sale or it mysteriously did get damaged in shipping.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 11:34:02 AM EDT
Perhaps he took the picture from some where on the internet, because there is clearly no damage in the first pic. I would see if he will pay for a new stock, otherwise small claims maybe your only option.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 11:45:31 AM EDT
That is a "He said/She said" situation.

I would take it to a furniture repair shop and see what it would cost to spot repair it or have it stripped and redone. I bet it is less than returning it.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 11:48:25 AM EDT
Bummer.



That's a nasty little ding, but i agree with OP; I wouldn't eat $90+ to send it back and 'hope' the seller did the right thing.




Good luck.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:52:27 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
Bummer.

That's a nasty little ding, but i agree with OP; I wouldn't eat $90+ to send it back and 'hope' the seller did the right thing.

Good luck.
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That's what worries me.  Get me once, bad on you.  Get me twice, bad on me.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:59:30 PM EDT
Just to make sure the first pic is the same gun you received, take a look at the woodgrain and see if the markings are the same.  Good luck.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 1:12:07 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RogueSpear2023:
Perhaps he took the picture from some where on the internet, because there is clearly no damage in the first pic. I would see if he will pay for a new stock, otherwise small claims maybe your only option.
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Doesn't look like the same  gun from the pics you have posted.  Closely compare the grain patterns of yours and the original pic from the same angle.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:41:58 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ar2de:



Doesn't look like the same  gun from the pics you have posted.  Closely compare the grain patterns of yours and the original pic from the same angle.
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Originally Posted By ar2de:
Originally Posted By RogueSpear2023:
Perhaps he took the picture from some where on the internet, because there is clearly no damage in the first pic. I would see if he will pay for a new stock, otherwise small claims maybe your only option.



Doesn't look like the same  gun from the pics you have posted.  Closely compare the grain patterns of yours and the original pic from the same angle.



Different.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:58:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2013 4:14:19 AM EDT by twofish]
Will check in the A.M.

Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:17:43 AM EDT
it is definitely the correct rifle and the one pictured in the GB listing.

Update:  Spoke with Fed Ex Claims.  A claim has been initiated by the FFL who shipped the gun.

If/when he fills out the claim form and supplies them with pics of the damage they will make a decision within 5-7 business days of receiving claim info.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 2:03:24 PM EDT
Thanks for the update. Good luck.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 4:48:35 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
Thanks for the update. Good luck.
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Thanks
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