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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/17/2005 11:48:26 AM EDT
Hope this isnt a dupe;

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/17/D8CM6FB00.html

Military May Play Bigger Relief Role
Sep 17 2:59 PM US/Eastern


By ROBERT BURNS
AP Military Writer


WASHINGTON


Presi­dent Bush's push to give the military a bigger role in responding to major disasters like Hurricane Katrina could lead to a loosening of legal limits on the use of federal troops on U.S. soil.

Pentagon officials are reviewing that possibility, and some in Congress agree it needs to be considered.

Bush did not define the wider role he envisions for the military. But in his speech to the nation from New Orleans on Thursday, he alluded to the unmatched ability of federal troops to provide supplies, equipment, communications, transportation and other assets the military lumps under the label of "logistics."

The president called the military "the institution of our government most capable of massive logistical operations on a moment's notice."

At question, however, is how far to push the military role, which by law may not include actions that can be defined as law enforcement _ stopping traffic, searching people, seizing property or making arrests. That prohibition is spelled out in the Posse Comitatus Act of enacted after the Civil War mainly to prevent federal troops from supervising elections in former Confederate states.

Speaking on the Senate floor Thursday, Sen. John Warner, R-Va., chairman of the Armed Services Committee, said, "I believe the time has come that we reflect on the Posse Comitatus Act." He advocated giving the president and the secretary of defense "correct standby authorities" to manage disasters.

Presidents have long been reluctant to deploy U.S. troops domestically, leery of the image of federal troops patrolling in their own country or of embarrassing state and local officials.

The active-duty elements that Bush did send to Louisiana and Mississippi included some Army and Marine Corps helicopters and their crews, plus Navy ships. The main federal ground forces, led by troops of the 82nd Airborne Division from Fort Bragg, N.C., arrived late Saturday, five days after Katrina struck.

They helped with evacuations and performed search-and-rescue missions in flooded portions of New Orleans but did not join in law enforcement operations.

The federal troops were led by Lt. Gen. Russel Honore. The governors commanded their National Guard soldiers, sent from dozens of states.

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld is reviewing a wide range of possible changes in the way the military could be used in domestic emergencies, spokesman Lawrence Di Rita said Friday. He said these included possible changes in the relationship between federal and state military authorities.

Under the existing relationship, a state's governor is chiefly responsible for disaster preparedness and response.

Governors can request assistance from the Federal Emergency Management Agency. If federal armed forces are brought in to help, they do so in support of FEMA, through the U.S. Northern Command, which was established in 2002 as part of a military reorganization after the 9/11 attacks.

Di Rita said Rumsfeld has not made recommendations to Bush, but among the issues he is examining is the viability of the Posse Comitatus Act. Di Rita called it one of the "very archaic laws" from a different era in U.S. history that limits the Pentagon's flexibility in responding to 21st century domestic crises.

Another such law, Di Rita said, is the Civil War-era Insurrection Act, which Bush could have invoked to waive the law enforcement restrictions of the Posse Comitatus Act. That would have enabled him to use either National Guard soldiers or active-duty troops _ or both _ to quell the looting and other lawlessness that broke out in New Orleans.

The Insurrection Act lets the president call troops into federal action inside the United States whenever "unlawful obstructions, combinations or assemblages _ or rebellion against the authority of the United States _ make it impracticable to enforce the laws" in any state.

The political problem in Katrina was that Bush would have had to impose federal command over the wishes of two governors _ Kathleen Blanco of Louisiana and Haley Barbour of Mississippi _ who made it clear they wanted to retain state control.

The last time the Insurrection Act was invoked was in 1992 when it was requested by California Gov. Pete Wilson after the outbreak of race riots in Los Angeles. President George H.W. Bush dispatched about 4,000 soldiers and Marines.

Di Rita cautioned against expecting quick answers to tough questions like whether Congress should define when to trigger the president's authority to send federal troops to take charge of an emergency, regardless of whether a governor agreed.

"Is there a way to define a threshold, or an anticipated threshold, above which a different set of relationships would kick in?" Di Rita asked. "That's a good question. It's only been two weeks, so don't expect us to have the answers. But those are the kinds of questions we need to be asking."
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 11:52:09 AM EDT
Alex Jones is starting to sound believable more and more.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 11:53:51 AM EDT
Not a good road to go down. This can only lead to very bad things.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 11:55:01 AM EDT
Head and pelvis shots
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 12:01:04 PM EDT
Mozambique drills...


LB
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 12:06:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2005 12:06:57 PM EDT by double_wielder]
We will police our own people with our own troops while leaving the Mexican
border wide open...Great

edit for grammar
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 2:09:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By double_wielder:
We will police our own people with our own troops while leaving the Mexican
border wide open...Great




Yup. Another new low.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 2:13:09 PM EDT
This is the reason that our founding fathers gave us the second amendment.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 2:15:32 PM EDT
We're becoming more like Europe every day.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 2:17:48 PM EDT
i don't really like the sound of this
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 2:20:20 PM EDT
I don't have a compendium of the statutes, but there are a number of exceptions to the PCA already. The Act itself assumes that statutes authorizing actions otherwise prohibited by the PCA will be anacted. This doesn't mean that revisiting the PCA isn't dangerous. It just means it's been done rather casually for over 100 years.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 2:23:23 PM EDT

Di Rita said Rumsfeld has not made recommendations to Bush, but among the issues he is examining is the viability of the Posse Comitatus Act. Di Rita called it one of the "very archaic laws" from a different era in U.S. history that limits the Pentagon's flexibility in responding to 21st century domestic crises.

Another such law, Di Rita said, is the Civil War-era Insurrection Act, which Bush could have invoked to waive the law enforcement restrictions of the Posse Comitatus Act. That would have enabled him to use either National Guard soldiers or active-duty troops _ or both _ to quell the looting and other lawlessness that broke out in New Orleans.

The Insurrection Act lets the president call troops into federal action inside the United States whenever "unlawful obstructions, combinations or assemblages _ or rebellion against the authority of the United States _ make it impracticable to enforce the laws" in any state.



Those, my friends, are some very scary thoughts. Can you say "Banana Republic?"

Oh, and although I find these proposals very disturbing and I take them very seriously, gallows humor prompts me say "IBJTC" (in before John Titor comments)
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 2:24:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
This is the reason that our founding fathers gave us the second amendment.



Exactly My thought when Bush said that in Thursday's speech. Damn, we're in some deep shit when Alex Jones' rantings start coming true.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 5:31:42 PM EDT
Full speed ahead to becoming a third world country.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 5:45:55 PM EDT
Average citizens don't really know anything about how the government is supposed to work
I doubt less .001% of the people under the age of 25 even know what Posse Comitatus is.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 5:59:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sq40:
Average citizens don't really know anything about how the government is supposed to work
I doubt less .001% of the people under the age of 25 even know what Posse Comitatus is.



Hell, the average citizen thinks the Secretary General of the US is President of the world.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 6:09:30 PM EDT
[John Titor] Told ya! [/John Titor]

Link Posted: 9/17/2005 6:10:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C-4:
Head and pelvis shots



Well now, I supppose since they have their heads up their asses a pelvis shot would be just about right.

Our nation is lost and I do not see any way for it to be preserved. Armed insurrection will certainly fail against such overwelming and power forces.

How did we come to this?
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 6:15:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2005 6:34:27 PM EDT by FLAL1A]

Originally Posted By Crock:

Originally Posted By C-4:
Head and pelvis shots



Well now, I supppose since they have their heads up their asses a pelvis shot would be just about right.

Our nation is lost and I do not see any way for it to be preserved. Armed insurrection will certainly fail against such overwelming and power forces.

How did we come to this?



They are not prepared for resistance. I have worked with the civil authorities' "front line troops." They are NOT prepared to take casualities. When things are as grim as you can imagine, they will not be grimmer than we can endure.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 6:19:08 PM EDT
tag for later.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 6:19:56 PM EDT
Slippery Slope.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 6:33:35 PM EDT
The role of the military during a disaster like Katrina should perhaps be revisited but messing with PC is indeed scary.
The big fucking problem here is that this wouldnt be a question if Naglin et al hadn't dropped the ball. Fix that and there is no need to revisit PC.
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