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Posted: 4/3/2002 5:56:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2002 6:01:19 PM EDT by ARH]
We have all seen way to many films where the actors had very poor gun handling skills. There are exceptions to this and I would like to know which actors or actresses,and in which film or films did they exhibit good gun handling skills or appear to have had some training. I would say Linda Hamilton in Terminator 2 appeared to have had good training for the role. ARH PS This is my one hundredth post. It only took me nine months.
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 6:00:46 PM EDT
what about that bitch that shot JR [:)]
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 6:05:08 PM EDT
Well she hit him. Thanksfor making me laugh so hard that milk shot out of my nose. ARH
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 6:06:11 PM EDT
or Mr Burns
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 6:11:59 PM EDT
clint eastwood in "in the line of fire" and that hot chick who's name i can't remember in "the postman" (BTW, the greatest car/m4 movie of all time)
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 6:15:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 6:18:56 PM EDT
Heat, no. 1. Ronin wasn't bad, either.
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 6:21:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By aa777888-2: Heat, no. 1. Ronin wasn't bad, either.
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ronin was very good as far as gun handling, especially the part where deniro is using the SAW, very realistic. i think it was a SAW anyway. the car chases got a little stupid, though.
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 6:22:05 PM EDT
Charlton Heston Chuck Connors(The Rifleman) Kirk Douglas Chuck Norris The taller one on Simon and Simon Robert Conrad (Wild Wild West) Steven Segall all of these SEEMED to naturally be able to handle a gun sensibly without that silly mess where they check a revolver and snap their wrist to close the cylinder kind of crap. What NOT to look for : the A-Team- none of them could hit the side of a barn if they were inside. Don't know what brand of .223 they use in movies for mini14s, but when it hits metal or a windshield it just makes a little spark.
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 6:25:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JMO: Charlton Heston Chuck Connors(The Rifleman) Kirk Douglas Chuck Norris The taller one on Simon and Simon Robert Conrad (Wild Wild West) Steven Segall all of these SEEMED to naturally be able to handle a gun sensibly without that silly mess where they check a revolver and snap their wrist to close the cylinder kind of crap. What NOT to look for : the A-Team- none of them could hit the side of a barn if they were inside. Don't know what brand of .223 they use in movies for mini14s, but when it hits metal or a windshield it just makes a little spark.
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yeah, that fucking show was why i bought a mini14 in the first place, and noting the accuracy, maybe they WERE trying to hit something. hehehe. funny thing, these guys were supposed to be former special forces , they expended countless thousands of rounds and i don't think they ever shot anyone, isn't t.v. great?
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 6:28:46 PM EDT
Just watched Tom Selleck in Quigley Down Under. Now yes, it's laughable when he snap shoots buckets at 900 yards (with peep sights), but he did seem to know how to properly shoulder a rifle. Plus, you have to give the guy some credit as I'm certain he's taken major sh*t in the acting community for being an advocate of firearms rights.
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 6:31:33 PM EDT
Heat and Ronin are definitely great movies and have great shooting scenes. It's not the best movie in the world, but there was some good gunplay in Way of the Gun. ARH
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 6:36:55 PM EDT
I'm sorry if this is movies only, but I have a decent TV example. *SOME* of the actors on Tour of Duty (in case you don't know its a TV show on TNT about 'Nam) seem to reasonably handle firearms. And yes, of course Charlton Heston.
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 6:38:17 PM EDT
Don Johnson has shown good technique with firearms. Particularly in Nash Bridges I have noted litle things like fingers out of the trigger guard until ready to fire and always assuming a gun to be loaded. (a few times when this rule was ignored on the show they made a point to have the gun a.d. as a result) I'm not a fan of Johnson or the show but the gun handling makes it bearable to watch.
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 6:48:17 PM EDT
Let's include television as well as films. We might as well point out some of the most blatant examples of bad gun handling too. Does it seem like every time you see a SWAT team on TV they all muzzle sweep the man stacked in front of them? ARH
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 6:53:21 PM EDT
Red Dawn, usually any Johm Milius movie is pretty good in the gun department.
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 6:57:38 PM EDT
Jimmy Cann in "Thief". (he did a lot of quick-peeks but it was taught that way at the time.) "Way of the Gun" has excellent gun handling throughout. One of the best movies ever in that regard.
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 7:15:45 PM EDT
In his latest box office smash, "Training Day," Denzel Washington, who is otherwise a superb actor, plays a self-absorbed, manipulative, ultra-violent crooked cop who carries a brace of semi-auto's in a pair of holsters on opposing shoulders, brand unknown. To fire, he first crosses his arms, then draws, then points the hardware in the general direction of the target, while canting the pisols 90 degrees to the side so as to completely obscure the sights and make them totally useless. With arms still crossed so as to make aiming or any useful gun handling impossible, he unleashes a fullisade of at least 1,000 rounds at 800 rounds per minute. The underlying dogma here is the same that makes me sick at just about every movie that comes from Hollywood today: style before substance. Every time I see some hip-hop ditty-bop jive-ass idiot cant his gun 90 degrees over to the side because he and the audience think it makes him look cool, and thereby destroy any chance at aimed fire, I become quietly enraged. The single most important point and objective of any firearm is accuracy. Any gun that cannot be fired accurately is nothing more than a paper weight and leaves me bored to tears. To use this ridiculous practice as a model of gun handling facilitates the slaughter of innocent bystanders, is an abomination to common sense, and is unconscionable. The people who create and encourage this dangerous carelessness should be publicly horse-whipped, after visiting and listening to the pitiful sobs of the relatives of a recent accidental shooting victim, with a final visit to the morgue to view the corpse. Is it any wonder that I absolutely LOATHE Hollywood and all the lies and shallowness and hypocracy that it stands for? It amazes me how Hollywood attracts people with no common sense nor any sense of social responsibility, like flies on shit, while they continually lay claim to possessing a higher moral authority. -Beldar
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 7:27:40 PM EDT
another bad handling in "Training Day" Ethan Hawk holds a pistol grip (no stock) shotgun so that his right hand (grip hand) is right in front of his face. if he fired it'd kick him in the face so hard he'd lose some teeth and probably be knocked out "3000 Miles to Graceland" had some good stuff, fairly accurate reloading for the most part plus a sweet looking m16, with what looked like the 10in barrel that Bushmaster sells and a Beta-C type drum magazine
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 7:36:21 PM EDT
What did you guys think of Bruce Willis' handling of twin .45's in 'Last Man Standing'? (And that of other people in the movie) CJ
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 7:36:55 PM EDT
Thanks Beldar and sharky 30, I know what not to rent. Do you think the hollywood portrayal of gun fights (the idiotic canting) could be advantageous for some of us with at least a little traing? I mean that if this "hip-hop ditty-bop jive-ass idiot" is canting his gun and killing air with his bullets, I am going to take cover and drill him between the nips with a 230 grain Hydra Shok. ARH
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 7:39:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2002 7:39:49 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
And who could ever forget Arnold in "Commando"? [:D] [img]http://www.foxhome.com/schwarzenegger/images/photocommando1.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 7:58:47 PM EDT
Originaly posted by The_Macallan. The_Macallan And who could ever forget Arnold in "Commando"? He didn't have to aim in that one. ARH
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 8:18:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARH: Thanks Beldar and sharky 30, I know what not to rent. Do you think the hollywood portrayal of gun fights (the idiotic canting) could be advantageous for some of us with at least a little traing? I mean that if this "hip-hop ditty-bop jive-ass idiot" is canting his gun and killing air with his bullets, I am going to take cover and drill him between the nips with a 230 grain Hydra Shok. ARH
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the good folks at birdman weapons systems (www.birdman.org) have created a product that caters to the gangsta shooter, they're called homeboy nit sytes, mounted on the side of the slide. goosd site, i LMAO.
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 8:19:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 8:33:25 PM EDT
The bad guy at the end of "Invasion USA" does a pretty realistic job with the M16 he's firing at Chuck Norris. He empties a mag, pops another one in, slaps the bolt release, and resumes firing. If you watch Commando, there's a scene where Arnold sneaks up on a guy on the island, and when he grabs him around the neck with his M16, you can see it's plastic, no details, and you can actually see it bending!
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 8:47:32 PM EDT
Y'ask me, they also did a good job in "The Rock." Anyone who has the "Criterion Edition" with the second DVD - watch it! There's some good info there form Harry the Hump (VN-Era SEAL who now does technical consulting fro Hollywierd) that most of us here would still learn somthing from... If you see "GSG" is the creds somewhere for tech consulting, Harry the Hump was there and got it done right! BTW - Be sure to watch the outtakes of Ed Harris when he's first calling in the "hostage sit" on the Rock... Lots of fun! Factoid - all of the SEALs except Commander Anderson (Michael Beihn) actually ARE former SEALs who work now for Harry the Hump (Harry Humphries, in case you were wondering.) Harry himselfs has two or three tours in the Big Asian Vacation under his belt... FFZ
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 9:22:51 PM EDT
I thought Michael Beihn and Bill Paxton were in Martini Ranch.
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 9:31:51 PM EDT
Way of the Gun all the way
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 9:50:36 PM EDT
I know the rest of the movie wasn't very good, but I thought the fire fight at the end of "Proof of Life" was pretty well done. Nothing comes close to Heat though. M4s, FAL, G3, TMP, FNC, etc. I was shocked by the quality of weapons handling in that movie.
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 10:17:38 PM EDT
John WAYNE (ALL OF THEM) JIMMY STEWART (WINCHESTER 73?? TOM SELLECK (The Sacketts) BEN JOHNSON (The Sacketts) <-- The real cowboy among them. Glenn Ford (The Sacketts) Jesse Ventura. Sam Elliot (The Sacketts) Ben Johnson; Sam Elliot. Ben
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 3:08:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FreeFireZone: Y'ask me, they also did a good job in "The Rock." Anyone who has the "Criterion Edition" with the second DVD - watch it! There's some good info there form Harry the Hump (VN-Era SEAL who now does technical consulting fro Hollywierd) that most of us here would still learn somthing from... If you see "GSG" is the creds somewhere for tech consulting, Harry the Hump was there and got it done right! BTW - Be sure to watch the outtakes of Ed Harris when he's first calling in the "hostage sit" on the Rock... Lots of fun! Factoid - all of the SEALs except Commander Anderson (Michael Beihn) actually ARE former SEALs who work now for Harry the Hump (Harry Humphries, in case you were wondering.) Harry himselfs has two or three tours in the Big Asian Vacation under his belt... FFZ
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By the way, Dennis "the snake" Chalker was also a former Navy SEAL.. He has his own website aswell. I cant remember his address though. One thing that gets on my nerves on how actors handle firearms is that they ALWAYS have their finger on the trigger. Even if they are just holding it. They have thier finger on the trigger....ARRRGGGG
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 4:15:37 AM EDT
The most accurate gun handling part of training day was when Denzel did cross his guns and go blazing he didn't hit a damn thing! (they were S&Ws, either 4506s or 1006s) BrenLover
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 4:55:59 AM EDT
I thought Charlie Sheen used exceptional gun handling technique when he made the one legged gook dance in Platoon! [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 5:43:52 AM EDT
"The taller one on Simon and Simon" That was Gerald McRaney and he's married to Delta Burke. His co-star was Jameson Parker and he has appeared on numerous gun-friendly shows.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 7:00:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By brouhaha: My top 3 in order of preference: HEAT The Way of the Gun Ronin
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Don't forget "3,000 miles to Grace Land". Good Movie. Plenty of AR action with Beta C Mag, nickel plated 1911, SAW (at the end) Starring Kevin Costner, Kurt Russell, Christian Slater, Courteney Cox, Howie Long, Jon Lovitz, and David Arquette [img]http://www.metacritic.com/media/movies/titles/3000miles/picture.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 7:29:15 AM EDT
This one is for the worst handling of firearms in a movie: Michael Douglas in "An American President." Remember the speech he made near the end of the movie, just to get some more tail from the Annette Benning character, as far as I'm concerned.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 8:20:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bilster: This one is for the worst handling of firearms in a movie: Michael Douglas in "An American President." Remember the speech he made near the end of the movie, just to get some more tail from the Annette Benning character, as far as I'm concerned.
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That movie was made by Alan (Crackhead) Sorkin, the same leftwing radical nutcase who produces "[s]West[/s] Left Wing". Seems he is so utterly obsessed with wielding power over us uneducated neanderthals that that's all he can do is pretend to be the President and write characters that do nothing except spout off radical liberal-socialist rantings against the "vast right wing conspiracy". One of the worst movies I ever saw. Made me sick to be [b]lectured[/b] to that way. I remember sitting in the movie theater with my jaw stuck to the floor as Michael Douglas' "President" character railed and ranted against everything I hold dear - independence, freedom, individual responsibility. With that smug, condescending, arrogant claptrap he was spouting at the end - it was like I was sitting in a Soviet-style brainwashing camp - straight out of Orwell's "1984". When are WE going to get to see movies where CONSERVATIVE characters can rant and rail against the hypocritical, irrational, self-hating, racist, anti-American, socialist communists in Hollywood and Gov't? Damn the Hollywood lefties to hell.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 8:36:48 AM EDT
Originally posted by The_Macallan "When are WE going to get to see movies where CONSERVATIVE characters can rant and rail against the hypocritical, irrational, self-hating, racist, anti-American, socialist communists in Hollywood and Gov't?" Damn the Hollywood lefties to hell. It would be nice to see some movies containing characters with conservative values. If there is a character with conservative values, they are usually portrayed as a right wing ultra Christian who everybody should be afraid of. I don't think we will see what we want to see on the big screen or TV until people with conservative values get into the business. Until then it will be the same old shit as always. ARH
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 10:30:26 AM EDT
Earlier on in this thread, a comment was made about Tom Selleck in "Quigley Down Under" making snap shots at a bucket 900 yards downrange and being ridiculous. Let me make a few points: 1. Tom, who is a personal friend of mine, is a very avid shooter and accomplished marksman. 2. Those "shots" you saw, were "live" and were at 700 yards. Yes, it took him 3 rounds to get the range (we did not see that) but he actually made those shots. 3. His rifle was a 45-110 SS Sharps, loaded with 100 grains of FFg and a 535gr postell bullet, paper patched. Sights were period vernier "soule" type sights with a Hadley diopter. 4. The "Quigley" Sharps was patterned after the actual "Creedmore" Sharps with the only deviations being the ladder sight, patchbox on the buttstock, and the front "blade" sight. These Creedmore rifles, although not in the 45-110 SS config (they were, for the most part 40-65's) were routinely used to hit targets at 1000 yards during the Creedmore heyday (by the way, the Creedmore range was located in Long Island, New York in the Queens county area!). There is more but let me say this. If any of you here doubt the ability of a person and a rifle as depicted in "Quigley Down Under", hop on a plane and come here to Hawaii. There are a group of us who can and do hit targets at ranges of 700 yards with regularity, each of us using either a Sharps in the 45-110 or 40-65 config or Remington Rolling Blocks and Winchester High Walls. Al with tang vernier "soule" sights with Hadley diopters. Study your history. You'll find many of instances where buffalo were taken in excess of 900 yards with these guns. As a matter of record, I dropped my first buffalo in S. Dakota with my 45-110 Sharps with a paced off (and recorded) distance of 850 yards. Buffalo dropped dead in his tracks. Never discount the accuracy and lethality of these old guns or the people who dedicate themselves to shoot them (by the way, I own 2 AR15's as well). Thanks for your time.......
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 11:05:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: When are WE going to get to see movies where CONSERVATIVE characters can rant and rail against the hypocritical, irrational, self-hating, racist, anti-American, socialist communists in Hollywood and Gov't? Damn the Hollywood lefties to hell.
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May I recommend American Movie Classics, Turner Classic Movies, and Encore Western? All three of these channels show scads of old movies espousing exactly the values you describe. Hollywood has always been heavy on lefties, but they didn't really start churning out the leftist propaganda pics until the 1970's or so.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 11:06:36 AM EDT
Thought the gunhandling in "Silverado" was pretty decent. All the others listed are great also. As far as the "homeboy" method of shooting goes, has anyone else here ever tried that? I did, and couldn't have hit the broad side of a barn if I was standing inside it. Showed it to my girlfriend also, and believe me, if some asshole ever pulls on me like that, I'll POP A SCUMBAG![pistol]
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 11:20:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gamesniper: As far as the "homeboy" method of shooting goes, has anyone else here ever tried that?
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I did it as a demonstration of what [b]not[/b] to do to a friend I was teaching the basics of pistol shooting. The pistol canted 90 degrees inward and my wrist cocked slightly downward. Fired 8 shots fairly rapid fire. I couldn't even hit an IDPA target at 7 yds. I couldn't get the gun back on target because the recoil was so weird. I finished the last two rounds in the magazine with a proper grip double tap and put both rounds in the center of the target (as demonstration of what you are supposed to do). So I hope those morons who might plan to perform antisocial acts will treat bad gun handling in movies as training videos to give the good guys a major tactical advantage.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 11:28:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Golgo-13: May I recommend American Movie Classics, Turner Classic Movies, and Encore Western? All three of these channels show scads of old movies espousing exactly the values you describe. Hollywood has always been heavy on lefties, but they didn't really start churning out the leftist propaganda pics until the 1970's or so.
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Yeah, nothing like "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" to perk me up. I just hate watching a station owned by Ted Turncoater.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 11:39:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2002 11:58:59 AM EDT by guardian855]
Originally Posted By Beldar: In his latest box office smash, "Training Day," Denzel Washington, who is otherwise a superb actor, plays a self-absorbed, manipulative, ultra-violent crooked cop who carries a brace of semi-auto's in a pair of holsters on opposing shoulders, brand unknown. To fire, he first crosses his arms, then draws, then points the hardware in the general direction of the target, while canting the pisols 90 degrees to the side so as to completely obscure the sights and make them totally useless. With arms still crossed so as to make aiming or any useful gun handling impossible, he unleashes a fullisade of at least 1,000 rounds at 800 rounds per minute. The underlying dogma here is the same that makes me sick at just about every movie that comes from Hollywood today: style before substance. Every time I see some hip-hop ditty-bop jive-ass idiot cant his gun 90 degrees over to the side because he and the audience think it makes him look cool, and thereby destroy any chance at aimed fire, I become quietly enraged. The single most important point and objective of any firearm is accuracy. Any gun that cannot be fired accurately is nothing more than a paper weight and leaves me bored to tears. To use this ridiculous practice as a model of gun handling facilitates the slaughter of innocent bystanders, is an abomination to common sense, and is unconscionable. The people who create and encourage this dangerous carelessness should be publicly horse-whipped, after visiting and listening to the pitiful sobs of the relatives of a recent accidental shooting victim, with a final visit to the morgue to view the corpse. Is it any wonder that I absolutely LOATHE Hollywood and all the lies and shallowness and hypocracy that it stands for? It amazes me how Hollywood attracts people with no common sense nor any sense of social responsibility, like flies on shit, while they continually lay claim to possessing a higher moral authority. -Beldar
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Hollywood is not interested in accuracy of events or real life, nor are they interested in morality, responsibility, or anything like that. They are more interested in style and money. I believe the reason they adopted the "gansta" method of shooting is because first of all regardless of it's total ineffectiveness in real life, it makes the character look like he is a "badass", I personally don't think so, I would be more afraid of someone who is shooting at me who is looking thru his sights, but to the unwashed and uneducated masses, it looks impressive I guess. And second, but most of all, it enables the audience to see the actor's face. By holding the gun to the side, it gets the majority of the pistol out of the way of his face. They paid Denzel $10 million, they don't want to cover his face up. Hollywood does this all the time. In Blade II, some of the vampires run around with protective suits on for the daytime, but they don't wear protective head gear. why not? Because you wouldn't be able to tell the actors apart. They do this for more than just guns, like in Star Wars, if the battle was really fought in space there would be no sound, but that would be boring to watch
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 12:52:29 PM EDT
PROGUN! I whole heartedly agree with you. I'm an avid Sharps shooter myself. Even though my range is only out to 500 yrd., I know it can be done.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 12:56:18 PM EDT
I can't believe that nobody has mentioned Blackhawk Down and We Were Soldiers as having good gun handling. Somebody mentioned the show Band of Brothers. If you compare the casts you'll see many names appear in lists for Blackhawk Down, We Were Soldiers, Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 2:14:30 PM EDT
On the Terminatior 2 special edition DVD, it shows Linda doing weapon training. What a WOMAN![sex]
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 2:39:01 PM EDT
"There is more but let me say this" Progun, please continue. May I suggest a new entry though? This is interesting.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:20:48 PM EDT
JasonDemond does the DVD say where she was trained or who the instructors were? Just curious. ARH
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 9:53:35 PM EDT
Steve McQueen in "The Getaway."
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