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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 11/18/2003 12:21:20 PM EDT
I'm looking for a tactical rifle on a budget. I found a used .300 without the accu-trigger, but it has the Choate stock. The guy will sell it for $450. Anyone else shot one of these guns. The reviews look good.

Also what is a good "cheap" long range scope I could put on it?
thanks
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 12:24:42 PM EDT
Here's a lesson learned the hard way:

There are cheap scopes.

There are good scopes.

There are no good, cheap scopes.

Save your money and buy a Leupold.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 12:28:49 PM EDT
What about a Tasco world class?
I wish I could afford a good scope, but my budget for this gun is low. Any recs on scopes under $300? or should I look for a used higher end scope?
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 12:37:16 PM EDT
Used higher end scope is the better answer IMHO. Example: Guy here has a Savage 7mm mag with a 3.5-10 x 50 Vari x III. Wants $500 for the package. I'd buy the whole thing, then sell the rifle for about $325 netting me the kick ass scope for $200 or so. Look at your local trader paper.
Scott
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 12:45:51 PM EDT
Stop !!

Don't buy it!!!

Am I too late?

Save your bucks and do it right.

Get the Remington 700PSS with a Leupold.

Remember this warning !

You will regret the Savage!

Don't do it!!

Choose wisely !!

Don't make the costly Savage mistake !!!

Link Posted: 11/18/2003 12:46:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gun-fan:
Used higher end scope is the better answer IMHO. Example: Guy here has a Savage 7mm mag with a 3.5-10 x 50 Vari x III. Wants $500 for the package. I'd buy the whole thing, then sell the rifle for about $325 netting me the kick ass scope for $200 or so. Look at your local trader paper.
Scott



That's a good idea, never thought of that
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 12:52:54 PM EDT
I have a 110FP in .308 with the Choate stock that has been through several 40 hour Sniper schools and deployed operationally multiple times. I have the Tasco Sniper Scope using Luepold base and rings on it and have never wished for anything else. I am a shooter and compete with this gun also. It has been in service for over three years and three thousand plus rounds.

No complaints here.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 12:54:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By oubeta:

Originally Posted By Gun-fan:
Used higher end scope is the better answer IMHO. Example: Guy here has a Savage 7mm mag with a 3.5-10 x 50 Vari x III. Wants $500 for the package. I'd buy the whole thing, then sell the rifle for about $325 netting me the kick ass scope for $200 or so. Look at your local trader paper.
Scott



That's a good idea, never thought of that


Works the other way as well. Never sell a good rifle / scope combination together. The sum of the parts is greater than the whole. This assumes it's not a savage 110 .270 and a simmons whitetail.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 12:58:20 PM EDT
Could anyone tell me about the gun?
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 1:14:49 PM EDT
A Super Sniper is a good scope and won't run you more than about $300.

I recommend it for shooters on a budget. I can't afford a Leupold, and you might not either. No need to deny yourself a weapon. Get the Savage and a $300 SuperSniper 10x42 from swfa.com. You will be shooting for less than $800.

I used a $65 Bushnell Banner 3-9x40 for years and it works fine. I am not an operator, nor a snob. Buy the scope you can afford, and hone your shooting skills. Better scopes and rifles can be bought later. I shoot a Remington LTR, and won't knock a good Savage.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 1:17:38 PM EDT
I've got 4 Savages:
223 x 2
308
30-06
Any of those Savages would outshoot my box-stock Remingtons:
223
308
30-06
Had to pump some $s into the Remingtons to get them up to Savage standards for accuracy.

Parts for Savages can be found at Sharp Shooter Supply and MidwayUSA.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 1:33:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sniper1az:
Stop !!

Don't buy it!!!

Am I too late?

Save your bucks and do it right.

Get the Remington 700PSS with a Leupold.

Remember this warning !

You will regret the Savage!

Don't do it!!

Choose wisely !!

Don't make the costly Savage mistake !!!




Either offer some VALID reasons why he should not buy it or take a hike.

These are good guns.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 1:52:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Torf:
A Super Sniper is a good scope and won't run you more than about $300.

I recommend it for shooters on a budget. I can't afford a Leupold, and you might not either. No need to deny yourself a weapon. Get the Savage and a $300 SuperSniper 10x42 from swfa.com. You will be shooting for less than $800.

I used a $65 Bushnell Banner 3-9x40 for years and it works fine. I am not an operator, nor a snob. Buy the scope you can afford, and hone your shooting skills. Better scopes and rifles can be bought later. I shoot a Remington LTR, and won't knock a good Savage.



THanks
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 3:16:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sniper1az:
Stop !!

Don't buy it!!!

Am I too late?

Save your bucks and do it right.

Get the Remington 700PSS with a Leupold.

Remember this warning !

You will regret the Savage!

Don't do it!!

Choose wisely !!

Don't make the costly Savage mistake !!!





Horsefeathers.

Savage is building the most accurate rifle out of the box on the market today. I will put my Savages up against any Remington, Winchester, Sako, Tikka ad infintum...

Savage rifles must shoot MOA or better before they ship. That's with factory ammo, handloading should improve upon that.

Call Savage tomorrow and ask them what standard they use before they ship any rifle from their factory.

(413) 568-7001


Link Posted: 11/18/2003 3:32:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sniper1az:
Stop !!

Don't buy it!!!

Am I too late?

Save your bucks and do it right.

Get the Remington 700PSS with a Leupold.

Remember this warning !

You will regret the Savage!

Don't do it!!

Choose wisely !!

Don't make the costly Savage mistake !!!




i have 2 savage 10FP 308 rifles, one 24, and one 26 inch barrel, both have the sss stocks/triggers, and have been bedded, and have the harris bipods, ferrel base, warne rings, one wears a 8.5-25X50 lr M1 tactical loopy, the other wears a 3.5-10X40 M3 tactical, and BOTH rifles do honest 1/4 MOA groups if i do my part, i do an easy half MOA on a bad day, they both go to 1000 yards easily, and have beaten all of my friends remmies hands down, and even did so out of the box, so get your pss and bring it up here, we will have a run for the money, i guarantee that the lowly savage crap rifle made from inferior to remmi parts will smoke the pss, or vss
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 3:58:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By oubeta:
Could anyone tell me about the gun?



Yes, it's a good gun, but a SHITTY trigger. If I were you, I'd buy the NEW Savage WITH the accutrigger. You'll kick yourself for it if you don't...

I recommend the Tasco Super Sniper, or a Used Leupold.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:07:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2003 7:49:41 PM EDT by Dave_A]
I have a new Savage 10FP (the model that replaced the 'Savage Tactical') in .308 with the AccuTrigger..

1) The AT is everything they say it is. Period. Light-as-a-feather, almost no trigger travel (over or otherwise)... Just put 1.5lb pressure on the thing and BANG!

2) I have a Simmons 44Mag scope (6.5-20x, 44mm objective, mil-dot). I have no complaints, it's clear enough to shoot in low light, and has managed to hold zero for the 75 or so rounds I've fired since I got the rifle a month ago...

3) I get around 1-3MOA at 100yds (best group was 1 in @ 100yds, 'ring-around-the-bull'), using Australlian surplus .308 (old FAL ammo, on stripper clips. Not exactly 'match grade')... I attribute this to my lack of experience with scoped rifles and shooting beyond 50ft...


P.S.

$350 for the rifle (03 10FP, AT/factory stock)
$150 for the scope
$35 for the base (sharpshooter supply/Ken Ferrel)
$25 for burris zee rings
$20 for the bipod (swivel-stud mount type)
$16 for sling and swivels...
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:28:53 PM EDT
How much would a good trigger job run?
I figure $450 for the gun is a good deal with the choate stock and scope mounts. What is the main difference between your $700 scopes and your $200 Bushnell. I've always used Bushnell's for deer hunting for years. Seem to work just fine. Do I just not know what I'm missing? Is there a $500 difference in clarity?
I mean if you see the deer and the crosshairs does the extra clarity make that much difference?

I'm sure if I was a police sniper and peoples lives were on the line I could justify spending that much, but I'm just looking for a "weekend warrior" sniper gun. Don't get me wrong I want to shoot 1/4 MOA at distange.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:29:17 PM EDT
Since we're on the subject, I'm gunna ask the question.

I'm a lefty, so nobody makes a 'tactical' in LH, so I have been reading about the Rem 700vs, since this can be made in LH and it's close to the pss.

Here's the question, does Savage make something comparable to the 'tactical' in a LH?
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:32:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:36:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By oubeta:
Don't get me wrong I want to shoot 1/4 MOA at distange.



Let me give some good advice. Set your standards a little more reasonably. 1/4 MOA is not likely with most any factory rifle.

I have an Accuracy International AE that will do it, but it is a $2,000+ rifle.

Expect 3/4 to 1 MOA as a reasonable target. That will be much more likely. And don't let people give you a line of bull. MOA rifles are rare, not usual.

Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:38:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sight-rail:
Since we're on the subject, I'm gunna ask the question.

I'm a lefty, so nobody makes a 'tactical' in LH, so I have been reading about the Rem 700vs, since this can be made in LH and it's close to the pss.

Here's the question, does Savage make something comparable to the 'tactical' in a LH?



I don't think so, but email them.

www.savagearms.com/le_home.htm
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:41:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sniper1az:
Stop !!

Don't buy it!!!

Am I too late?

Save your bucks and do it right.

Get the Remington 700PSS with a Leupold.

Remember this warning !

You will regret the Savage!

Don't do it!!

Choose wisely !!

Don't make the costly Savage mistake !!!


BULLSHIT!
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:41:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By oubeta:
Don't get me wrong I want to shoot 1/4 MOA at distange.



Let me give some good advice. Set your standards a little more reasonably. 1/4 MOA is not likely with most any factory rifle.

I have an Accuracy International AE that will do it, but it is a $2,000+ rifle.

Expect 3/4 to 1 MOA as a reasonable target. That will be much more likely. And don't let people give you a line of bull. MOA rifles are rare, not usual.




True,
and I don't need it to do that. I guess in reality I will only use it at the range and for the peace of mind knowing that I have a rifle in my trunk that can shoot your eye out at 500yards and I might use it for deer hunting, but mostly just for fun.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:51:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2003 4:52:53 PM EDT by Maynard]

Originally Posted By oubeta:
How much would a good trigger job run?
I figure $450 for the gun is a good deal with the choate stock and scope mounts. What is the main difference between your $700 scopes and your $200 Bushnell. I've always used Bushnell's for deer hunting for years. Seem to work just fine. Do I just not know what I'm missing? Is there a $500 difference in clarity?
I mean if you see the deer and the crosshairs does the extra clarity make that much difference?

I'm sure if I was a police sniper and peoples lives were on the line I could justify spending that much, but I'm just looking for a "weekend warrior" sniper gun. Don't get me wrong I want to shoot 1/4 MOA at distange.




You can purchase a drop in trigger from SharpShooter Supply in Delphos Ohio for your Savage.

Website:

www.varminthunters.com/sshooter/

Scanned pics of SSS mail order catalog:

imageevent.com/richinva/sharpshootersupply

As far as the scope goes:

All you wanted to know about optics and more.

www.charm.net/~kmarsh/scope.html


With credits to Ken Marsh of rec.guns fame:


Difference between good and cheap scopes.

Repeatability Every experienced shooter knows that different weight bullets, and different brand loads, shoot to different centers of impact. It would be nice to just adjust a scope a few clicks depending on which load you choose to use. With a quality scope, scope adjustments are repeatable. This means that if 20 clicks left will zero when changing loads once, it will always, and 20 clicks to the right will always take you exactly back again. On a cheap scope, each click is variable in adjustment, often a shot or two must be fired before it settles in, and adjusting it back doesn't bring it back to the same place.

After bore-sighting a couple dozen scopes, I noticed that the dime-store scope adjustments are very stiff when new. A few shots must be fired to force large adjustments to take. On the other hand, older cheap scopes move very freely, whether they are being adjusted or not. Either way, adjustments to the vertical affect the horizontal, and vice-versa. I've seen some cheap scopes that actually have portions of the adjustment range that move backwards. When they get a little older, reticle float is common. The reticle settles in a different place after each shot.

Glare Glare (a.k.a. flare) is unwanted light outside the proper transmission path in the scope. It is reflected inside the scope, eventually joining the light intended to be viewed. This results in a washed-out look, loss of contrast, and weak colors.

At least five things cause flare. One is light entering the scope from angles outside the viewed area. (This can be reduced by a recessed objective lens or scope shades.) A second is impurities inside the cheaper grades of optical glass. The third is a rough or imprecise grind on the lens surface randomly reflecting light. The fourth is the lens/air interface or surface itself is reflective, especially with a high polish. This can be reduced with a good coating. The fifth is poor scope design, which arbitrarily discards unwanted light at certain magnifications.

Internal baffles and scope tube darkening treatments can stop this light and reduce glare. Cheap scopes lack baffles, and have bright aluminum, poorly anodized or unpainted internal reflective surfaces. Very large objective scopes (50mm/56mm) using 1" tubes must employ careful design discipline to avoid discarded light from becoming glare. Reducing the total number of lenses used improves flare.

Since the lens coating is only part of the glare equation, the quality of the lens glass and grind must be considered as well. It is altogether likely a high quality fully single-coated system can outperform a cheap fully-multicoated system in terms of resolution and flare.

View Quality scopes employ precisely ground optics and expensive Multiple Coatings. They have less color bleed, transmit more light, and have less edge distortion. All this can mean the ability to pick out antlers among the branches, and brown fur amoung the Autumn leaves.

Usability A quality hunting scope has a longer and more forgiving eye relief and a bigger exit pupil, making them more comfortable and easier to acquire the proper sight picture. They often have a wider field of view than comparably powered cheap scopes, for faster target acquisition. Depth of field is also another issue where cheap scopes lack, especially at higher magnifications. Depth of field is minimum to maximum ranges at which objects will appear in focus. Not a big issue on the range, but it can mean everything while hunting.

Strength Almost all scopes are marketed as shockproof. Not all are. If you dropped your rifle while sliding down that muddy slope, it would be nice to know (once you got all the mud out of the barrel) that the scope is still OK and your rifle still zeroed.

Reliability Cheap scopes are more likely to lose their seal integrity and fog-up, particularly if they have lots of features, like illuminated reticles, adjustable objectives, etc.




Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:56:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By oubeta:

Originally Posted By sight-rail:
Since we're on the subject, I'm gunna ask the question.

I'm a lefty, so nobody makes a 'tactical' in LH, so I have been reading about the Rem 700vs, since this can be made in LH and it's close to the pss.

Here's the question, does Savage make something comparable to the 'tactical' in a LH?



I don't think so, but email them.

www.savagearms.com/le_home.htm



Doh... I found this on the site

Email:
Due to an overwhelming request for information, we are unable to accept inquiries by e-mail.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 5:00:09 PM EDT
I've shot savages and I've shot remingtons about an equal amount.

The stocks on savages are ok, they don't seem to fit me too well though. Remingtons fit me great. Choate Stocks are, well superb, they fit me perfectly (along with everyone else I've seen try them).

Every Savage I have EVER shot has been very accurate right from the box, the scopes that come in the packages that are supposedly boresighted are always off but once the rifle is sighted, it is fine.

I have had a few pretty good Remingtons and I have had some bad remingtons.

I sell guns, I sell both Rems and Savages. For some reason Savage has a bad name. Everyone I have ever sold a savage to has come back to me stating that it is very accurate, not so with the rems (but that could be just luck).

If you have the chance to get the Savage with a Choate Stock on it, take it. If it is in reasonable shape, you won't regret it for a second.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 5:07:25 PM EDT
thanks guys
I bought the savage now just researching scpes
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 5:44:36 PM EDT
sniper1az,

How about responding to the replies about your post? I am kind of curious how you came to your conclusions about Savage rifles. No disrespect intended.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 6:42:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RetiredNavy:
sniper1az,

How about responding to the replies about your post? I am kind of curious how you came to your conclusions about Savage rifles. No disrespect intended.



What replies?
Money was the main issue regarding my decision on the Savage.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 7:16:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2003 7:21:08 PM EDT by lvgunner777]
I have the accu trigger .308 Savage 10fp and just got back from the range for it's first shots off of a rest.


I have very little experience shooting these types of rifle by the way.

As far as your scope, get the Bushnell Elite 3200 with a mildot and target turrets for around $150-175 dollars. It's what I got and it is a VERY good scope. Someone said earlier you can't get a good scope cheap, well, you can if you buy this one, it's very good. I like the fixed 10 power, it works well.


Here is my 10fp:



Here is the group it shot today, first time shooting it off a rest.



By the way, to the rifle snob, I'm in this rilfe for about $720 total with all brand new components. Harris bipod and Leupold rings and bases.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 7:39:36 PM EDT
One more thing. If you buy it NEW. The stock it comes with is a throw away. You MUST get a different stock to obtain best results.

________________________________________
LIFE MEMBER NRA
LIFE MEMBER VFW
MEMBER TSRA
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 8:33:12 PM EDT
I have a 10FP in the McM stock. It has the accutrigger. I love the gun. I can routinely shoot 1/2 MOA at 100 yds and have held under a minute at 800yds in the wind.

During a stalk in a class, I crawled thru a creek for about 30yds with the rifle totally submerged. When I set up for my shot, water was pouring outta the bbl, action and scope caps :). Within a coupla hours (and no cleaning or drying) I shot 70-80 rnds from 250-800yds with no glitches or misses.

I've got no complaints at all.
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