This is an outgrowth from a previous thread that has grown unwieldy.

One of my best friends is an ER doctor. He recently told me that he used to perform abortions. He has ambivalent feelings about the procedure, with no solution for either side of the debate. Here are the points he made:


1. It "feels wrong" to do them.

2. Most of the women who want them are in trouble and "really need" them.

3. It tends to mess up women psychologically.

4. The guys who knocked the women up are usually long gone.

5. The patients almost always fail to pay their bill.

Quoted: 1. It "feels wrong" to do them.

Of course it does. Ending a human life at a point when said life is most innocent shouldn't give joygasms. If it does, then it is a sign someone needs to be locked up.

All the high minded debate and talk of "rights" doesn't remove the plain and obvious fact: Abortion is the ending of a human life. A healthy conscience is impossible to talk into submission.

2. Most of the women who want them are in trouble and "really need" them.

I would question the use of the word "need" there. I have no doubt that the majority of the women who have them are frazzled as a result of a string of irresponsible personal choices that put them in a bad situation, and they are about to make things monumentally worse with yet another irresponsible personal choice.

3. It tends to mess up women psychologically.

I would question that as well. I don't think you will find that those who have abortions are all that emotionally well to begin with. (as a general rule....) Still, it is essentially murder. I have talked to lots of women who have had abortions, and the guilt of it is something they can never be rid of. The high minded arguements don't change the reality inside a woman's mind that she killed her child. The pain of that knowledge is deep and very real, even if outsiders don't see it. Lots of women who have an abortion turn to self destructive behaviors because of the guilt they feel.

I haven't talked to one woman who had an abortion that wouldn't give her right arm to go back and make the different choice.

4. The guys who knocked the women up are usually long gone.

Not unusual. Another example of bad personal choices. Date scumbag, have sex with scumbag, announce you are pregnant to scumbag, then scumbag leaves. Whenever I have seen this chain of events it is no shock to see that scumbag wasn't going to stick around in the first place.

Still, scumbags who have a hand in producing abortions ought to have their balls cut off.

5. The patients almost always fail to pay their bill.

He must have done these in poorer neighborhoods, which makes conclusion number 2 more clear. Often there develops a culture of idiocy, a contagious culture of bad choices that is passed from one individual to another. It produces people who are bounced from one crisis to another, often because of their own foolish choices.

People live their lives without intention, and in doing so they doom themselves. Purposeful and considered action in life is CRUCIAL to have any level of success. Our culture does a piss poor job of teaching that to people these days....

Yeah. It's so much easier to simply kill the poor kid rather than to hold people responsible for their actions.

We are SO fucking doomed.

I used to know someone that worked in a clinic.
She said that for every scared middle class kid that came in not knowing how to deal with accidentally getting pregnant, there was a repeat customer from the inner city that had 5 or more previous visits. I actually heard about a girl that was in for her 8th abortion....and on the states bank account, since this was a welfare case.

Apparently, even though the clinics charge people a few hundred bucks to perform the procedure, it costs a few thousand to actually do the work. So...how do you feel about your tax dollars supporting this? Guess your feeling dont really matter since you cant do anything about it.

I was disgusted to learn that clinics have 'regulars'.
I half jokingly suggested that the docs should be sterilizing these people after a set number of visits. Its a very bad situation.

These girls are for the most part desperate, mentally ill, and alone.
My friend was liberal enough to work in the place but conservative enough to make the following statement which I never forgot....

"...you see the type of people that come in and out of my clinic and you bitch about your tax dollars going to support these operations...well, whats going to cost more....a one time fee of a few thousand to eliminate the problem now, or a lifetime of funding to the prison system where these inner city, unwanted kids are going to spending most of their lives?"

Quoted: 1. It "feels wrong" to do them. He KNOWS it's wrong, but is in cognitive denial 2. Most of the women who want them are in trouble and "really need" them. TRANSLATION: They're irresponsible and self-centered. It's got nothing to do with "rape" or "mother's life in danger". 3. It tends to mess up women psychologically. Murdering your own children tends to do that. 4. The guys who knocked the women up are usually long gone. See #2. 5. The patients almost always fail to pay their bill. See #2.

Quoted: This is an outgrowth from a previous thread that has grown unwieldy. One of my best friends is an ER doctor. He recently told me that he used to perform abortions. He has ambivalent feelings about the procedure, with no solution for either side of the debate. Here are the points he made: 1. It "feels wrong" to do them. Murder has a way of making people feel uneasy.... 2. Most of the women who want them are in trouble and "really need" them. =want, as in "I want my MTV"..... 3. It tends to mess up women psychologically. Hos who couldn't keep their thighs shut. 4. The guys who knocked the women up are usually long gone. That's OK- the government will see to all our needs.... 5. The patients almost always fail to pay their bill.

See #4

Quoted: I used to know someone that worked in a clinic. She said that for every scared middle class kid that came in not knowing how to deal with accidentally getting pregnant, there was a repeat customer from the inner city that had 5 or more previous visits. I actually heard about a girl that was in for her 8th abortion....and on the states bank account, since this was a welfare case.

Those happen too.

The types of clients seen varies by location. Frequent flyers happen in all types of medical procedures, including abortion.

Such is life.

Some people just don't give a damn.

Apparently, even though the clinics charge people a few hundred bucks to perform the procedure, it costs a few thousand to actually do the work. So...how do you feel about your tax dollars supporting this? Guess your feeling dont really matter since you cant do anything about it.

Of course I can.

I can vote.

I was disgusted to learn that clinics have 'regulars'. I half jokingly suggested that the docs should be sterilizing these people after a set number of visits. Its a very bad situation.

And therein lies the objection that most folks like myself have. Abortion as a form of birth control (which it is in the vast majority of cases) is a revolting concept at its core.

"...you see the type of people that come in and out of my clinic and you bitch about your tax dollars going to support these operations...well, whats going to cost more....a one time fee of a few thousand to eliminate the problem now, or a lifetime of funding to the prison system where these inner city, unwanted kids are going to spending most of their lives?"

Pre-emptive capital punishment is not the correct answer to any problem, no matter how large the scope.

Quoted: (snip) My friend was liberal enough to work in the place but conservative enough to make the following statement which I never forgot.... "...you see the type of people that come in and out of my clinic and you bitch about your tax dollars going to support these operations...well, whats going to cost more....a one time fee of a few thousand to eliminate the problem now, or a lifetime of funding to the prison system where these inner city, unwanted kids are going to spending most of their lives?"

A study back during the Carter administration said the same thing, and was promptly shoved under the rug due to the outrage. The study went on to say that abortion would also cut the violent crime rate, too, since all these unborn children would not grow up to be criminals.

Quoted: 3. It tends to mess up women psychologically. Murdering your own children tends to do that.

Pretty much.
I knew of a few girls that had abortions when I was younger.
None of them were what I would call emotionally stable, none had traditional supportive families, and none walked away from the experience without having major issues with what they had done.
I always wondered what went through these peoples minds when they grew up and went on to have families later in life. When they (assuming they did) eventually have children, do they really look at the '1st' kid as their first? I cant imagine dealing with that kind of emotional torment for a lifetime.

That all being said, I am fully pro-choice.....
If you arent in a position to raise a child, then 'choose' not to get pregnant in the first place.
Despite what the left would have us believe, one doesnt get pregnant in the same manner one catches a cold...its not in the air...it requires action. Peer pressure isnt an excuse. We have given kids today so many excuses that I dont see how the younger generations can grow to accept responsibility for anything...not when the example they see is of a society trying to justify everything they do.

Just a sad, sad observation.

Quoted: "...you see the type of people that come in and out of my clinic and you bitch about your tax dollars going to support these operations...well, whats going to cost more....a one time fee of a few thousand to eliminate the problem now, or a lifetime of funding to the prison system where these inner city, unwanted kids are going to spending most of their lives?"

A study back during the Carter administration said the same thing, and was promptly shoved under the rug due to the outrage. The study went on to say that abortion would also cut the violent crime rate, too, since all these unborn children would not grow up to be criminals.

There's a fascinating book called Freakonomics that says the same thing - today's declining crime rate is due to the heyday of abortions a couple decades ago.

Quoted: A study back during the Carter administration said the same thing, and was promptly shoved under the rug due to the outrage. The study went on to say that abortion would also cut the violent crime rate, too, since all these unborn children would not grow up to be criminals.

Genocide as a means of crime control is a concept worthy of the Nazi high-command.

The suggestion that murdering a bunch of children will lower our crime problems is a horrible thing to contemplate.

Abortion may indeed have that effect, but the cure is far worse than the disease.

Quoted: There's a fascinating book called Freakonomics that says the same thing - today's declining crime rate is due to the heyday of abortions a couple decades ago.

Yup.

It is amazing to me that at this point in AMERICAN history, we could actually have people saying we have a lower crime rate because fewer little black babies were born.

If Dan Quayle said that, he would be burned at the stake.

But some libbie academic says that, and nobody blinks. In fact, pro-abortion groups USE THAT as an arguement.

The world is one messed up place these days.

Quoted: Quoted: There's a fascinating book called Freakonomics that says the same thing - today's declining crime rate is due to the heyday of abortions a couple decades ago. Yup. It is amazing to me that at this point in AMERICAN history, we could actually have people saying we have a lower crime rate because fewer little black babies were born. If Dan Quayle said that, he would be burned at the stake. But some libbie academic says that, and nobody blinks. In fact, pro-abortion groups USE THAT as an arguement. The world is one messed up place these days.

Indeed it is.

Quoted: ...It is amazing to me that at this point in AMERICAN history, we could actually have people saying we have a lower crime rate because fewer little black babies were born...

Nobody said anything about "black" until now, but what about that statement amazes you, anyway? Like it or not, there's truth in it: A disproportionate amount of crime is committed by inner-city minorities.

Quoted: Quoted: The world is one messed up place these days. Indeed it is.

Yes. But there's no period in history when it was less messed up, either.

I'm surprised brimstone is not raining down right now.