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Posted: 10/11/2004 4:51:16 PM EDT
I just wanted to start a discussion of when you think human rights begin in a life cycle and your logic behind it.

For instance someone might believe it starts when a sperm combines with the egg. Then they would give their own reasoning.

I would like to avoid discussion of government funded abortion and keep this as simply a purely philosophical discussion on when equal rights begin and why.

Also take into account when I say human rights I mean the rights equal to yours (or the mothers)as far as right to life.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:53:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:54:34 PM EDT
Nut up and post your own view first, chief
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:55:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:55:42 PM EDT
Ye gods.. Here it goes again.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:56:39 PM EDT
Oh shit!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:56:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:57:07 PM EDT

(in before this thread hits forty pages)

If it can get up and running, that is.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:57:44 PM EDT
Uh, hey, whoa, sorry, wrong room. I'll, you know, just back out, now, don't want any trouble....


*running away*
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:58:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:58:15 PM EDT
Nobody say nothin'.

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:00:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:
Ye gods.. Here it goes again.

Amen. I'm staying out of this one.....
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:01:14 PM EDT
ruh roh....
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:01:19 PM EDT
OK nevermind
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:01:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mtechgunman:

(in before this thread hits forty pages)

If it can get up and running, that is.

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:02:47 PM EDT
Can we get a lock on isle 3?
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:03:21 PM EDT
Life starts at conception. Don't like my views? Good For You.
I have a very hard time understanding people's justification for abortion, except when lives are threatened.

I'll let you figure out how that's not a paradox on your own.

People that trot out the 'people have the right to retain control over their own bodies' argument are people I agree with, except that I think the life and rights of the human developing within themselves or their partner should supersede their own selfish desires. That is why the unborn child needs legal protection.

BUT WAIT, there's more...what about cases of rape or incest? Well, I just don't fucking know.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:03:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:04:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc6969:

Originally Posted By FredM:
OK nevermind

Is this a lock request?

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:05:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:05:23 PM EDT
I'll start...

Life begins at the moment of conception. Taking that life at any stage during it's development, whether at the fifth week, fifth month of fifth year is murder.

Also, partial birth/ "late term" abortions are the most disgusting and barbaric practice known to man. Receiving, performing or assisting in a partial birth abortion should be a capital offence.

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:05:43 PM EDT
Woo Hoo! I'm posting on the first page of this thread.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:05:50 PM EDT
IMHO a human life starts at about 8 weeks, when electrical activity begins in the fetal brain.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:06:35 PM EDT
Yeah if you are gonna reply don't even think about exceptions to the rule like rape, incest, alien inbreeding, etc.

More interested in why life starts at when you think it starts. What has happened at that point that is significant.

Sorry guys

I am just trying to figure this out for myself.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:08:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:
IMHO a human life starts at about 8 weeks, when electrical activity begins in the fetal brain.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with this post but this is the format that I really wanted.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:10:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:16:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 5:30:58 PM EDT by dogear]
Ah, this is simple. Fertilization begins (human) life (human being). No Life, no Liberty, hence no Pursuit of Happiness. Can't separate the spark from the fire. Human rights begin when human life begins.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:20:23 PM EDT
In embryology the fetus has a rudimentary cardiovascular system and heartbeat around the 3rd or 4th week. In a classical definition I would say that could be a marker of life beginning. However, life may also be defined as cell division which occurs almost immediatley after fertilization of an ovum by sperm, thus producing a multipotential cell, which in turn gives rise to a human being. So, I would argue life begins at conception.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:26:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 5:27:04 PM EDT by Ken226]
I think abortion is a rediculous form of birth control. But for other reasons, for example, if the mothers life will be endangered or if she was raped, abort all you want. Other than that, I think 15-20 years sounds about right. And partial birth abortion should be punishable by public hanging, for the mother and the doctor.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:31:13 PM EDT
[flamesuit on] IMHO Life begins at the baby's first breath outside the womb. Before that, it's a part of the female body. [/flamesuit off]

I should really know better than to reply to this thread with my opinion...
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:32:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Good luck, bud.


Life begins at conception because the basic processes of life begin at conception. (Cell division, etc...) The product of reproduction between a human male and a human female isn't a goldfish, and should not be flushed like one. Thus if whatever it is is alive, AND is the product of human reproduction....

Viola!! Human life.

And left alone, those few cells will grow into a person just as much a person as you or I. So interrupting that process is murder.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:39:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 5:40:15 PM EDT by FredM]
For the undecided people consider this before posting:

When does life end? When is it ethical to take someone off life support?

Or more abstract:

We hunt animals because they do not show the characteristics of humans therefore they don't have human rights although they do have brain activity and a heartbeat. If we encountered an alien race or other (bigfoot) how would we determine what rights this organism would have? What charactristics?

If you already have your mind made up then just post your opinion. This post is worthless to you.

By the way I take no credit for the above ideas. They are not my own original thoughts.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:40:26 PM EDT

Let me get a bucket of popcorn and a Pepsi first.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:47:39 PM EDT
wow, this thread is going slow......shoulda waited and started it after the premarital sex thread was over.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:47:42 PM EDT
Only if we could abort the ones who abort their children.

I am serious
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:47:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 5:48:55 PM EDT by 69hpbt]
As a parent I can solidly say human rights don't start till you move out, until then I own your ass.

(imho life starts at conception)
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:51:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 69hpbt:
As a parent I can solidly say human rights don't start till you move out, until then I own your ass.

I know it is a joke but that is a valid argument. Soundness of the argument is where problems start.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:54:54 PM EDT
Life begins when the LAST kid moves out!!
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:55:09 PM EDT
This should be great
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:55:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:34:29 PM EDT
Pro-choice. BOHICA

Maybe I don't feel good about abortion in most instances, but in some scenarios it applies.

Even when I was hard-core fundamentalist I felt that people should at least have the choice of "going to Hell". From that perspective, God gave us that choice. I'm certainly not better than to argue it.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:40:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:45:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:48:19 PM EDT
I have come to accept that life begins when you turn the computer off.

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:50:18 PM EDT
When a fetus has brain waves = human

that's about 6 weeks.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 7:10:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
Without a doubt nothing beats a hot apple pie with a nice light crisp crust ... just ten minutes out of the oven and still all hot and gooey - just a touch of cinnamon.

Kind of strange the guy asks for a discussion, is told to "nut up" and post his own opinion, then runs out of the discussion ... seems to be rather like huh?

I have 5 replies in this thread not counting this one and i have already sid that I am undecided which is why I wanted this discussion.

Are you joking?
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 7:32:03 PM EDT
I'll add fuel to the impending flame fest - never been afraid to say my piece!!

Life begins at birth. I have zero objection to abortion at any time by any method. Murder of a pregnant woman is as horrible as any murder but should not, IMHO, carry any charge for killing an unborn fetus.

sKerry is a prime example of an abortion that SHOULD have been performed!!!!
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 7:38:33 PM EDT
The very definition of the word "Abortion" means to end a life.....

Murder by any other name is still murder
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:32:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 8:33:30 PM EDT by DScott]

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
The very definition of the word "Abortion" means to end a life.....

Murder by any other name is still murder

Ending a life is murder? Always?

So you for or against capital punishment? Murder, right?

MOAB on a pile of the bad kind of Iraqis? Murder, right?

Shooting the guy raping your wife? Murder, right?

We end life all the time- we kill, indeed, but not all killing is murder.

Tissue begins living when it reproduces, but does not become a viable human being for many months afterward. It's not when "life" begins that defines this debate, unless what you really mean to say is when living tissue becomes a potentially viable human being.

But I'm sure you knew that...

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:35:00 PM EDT
Killing in self defense is not murder.

But I'm sure you knew that...

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:58:16 PM EDT
I'm stayin out of this one. I may agree with yall on abortion, but after that thread about homosexuality, I aint touchin politics outside of gun control here.

- BG
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