Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/26/2005 8:09:34 PM EDT
If the mothers life is in danger is it alright? Say surgery is urgently needed for a woman who recently found out she is pregnant and that it would be deadly for the unborn child. AT what point does it make it alright to abort the pregnancy in your opinion?
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:14:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 8:15:13 PM EDT by Dusty_C]
This is gonna be a rough thread. I didn't have an opinion one way, or another, until my sister in law aborted a baby my wife and I wanted to adopt and had even offered to pay all her living expenses while she was pregnant. Now I think that it's wrong. Call me pro choice though. A woman can make the decision to open her legs or not. That's the choice. If she gets knocked up, she should carry it to term. Now abortions that are needed for medical reasons or due to rape, I can understand.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:21:41 PM EDT

I think that God doesn't agree with killing unborn children for no other reason but selfishness.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:35:09 PM EDT
My opinion there is never a good reason to kill the unborn. I have never faced the situation you described but when I had my children my wife and I made a contingeny. If it came to a point where it was either the child or her, the child would live. If it came to both her and the child having a chance of dying, we agreed to let the child at least have a chance and take the risk.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:44:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
My opinion there is never a good reason to kill the unborn. I have never faced the situation you described but when I had my children my wife and I made a contingeny. If it came to a point where it was either the child or her, the child would live. If it came to both her and the child having a chance of dying, we agreed to let the child at least have a chance and take the risk.



That's deep. I don't know if I could make the same choice.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:27:07 PM EDT
God speaks very clearly in the Bible on the value of unborn children. God’s Word says that He personally made each one of us, and has a plan for each life:

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart" (Jeremiah 1:5).

"Even before I was born, God had chosen me to be His" (Galatians 1:15).

"For You created my inmost being; You knit me together in my mother’s womb . . . Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be" (Psalm 139:13, 16). "Your hands shaped me and made me . . . Did You not clothe me with skin and flesh and knit me together with bones and sinews? You gave me life" (Job 10:8–12).

"This is what the Lord says—He who made you, who formed you in the womb" (Isaiah 44:2).

"Did not He who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same One form us both within our mothers?" (Job 31:15).

Because man is made in God’s own image (Genesis 1:27), each life is of great value to God: "Children are a gift from God" (Psalm 127:3). He even calls our children His own: "You took your sons and daughters whom you bore to Me and sacrificed them...You slaughtered My children" (Ezekiel 16:20,21). The Bible says of our Creator, "In His hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of every human being" (Job 12:10). God, the giver of life, commands us not to take the life of an innocent person: "Do not shed innocent blood" (Jeremiah 7:6); "Cursed is the man who accepts a bribe to kill an innocent person" (Deuteronomy 27:25). "You shall not murder" (Exodus 20:13). Taking the life of the unborn is clearly murder—"He didn’t kill me in the womb, with my mother as my grave" (Jeremiah 20:17)— and God vowed to punish those who "ripped open the women with child" (Amos 1:13).

NOTE: taken from the evidence bible @ www.wayofthemaster.com
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 4:13:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 4:14:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:

+1 but i honestly thought this thread would be 9 pages of bashing by now....
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 4:24:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 4:37:59 AM EDT
Abortion is murder in ever sense of the word.

In a situation where the mother/baby is in trouble you try to save both.

Link Posted: 8/27/2005 4:39:18 AM EDT
Randall I'm thinking he's asking about cases where saving both is impossible. And that does happen.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 4:51:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2005 4:55:36 AM EDT by RandallFlag]

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
Randall I'm thinking he's asking about cases where saving both is impossible. And that does happen.



Rarely does it happen.

And if it truly is one or the other then you save the one with the best chance of survival .

Link Posted: 8/27/2005 4:53:40 AM EDT
I guess I think it happens more often than most people think is because I'm near Arkansas Childrens hospitial where it happens on a regular basis and my mother was an OB nurse.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 4:56:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
I guess I think it happens more often than most people think is because I'm near Arkansas Childrens hospitial where it happens on a regular basis and my mother was an OB nurse.



Really?


Because I rarely hear of it.

What type of conditions are these that both are at sucj risk?

Auto injury or what?

Link Posted: 8/27/2005 5:00:44 AM EDT
They differ, I can just remember several times my mom coming home very upset from being involved in these cases. Seeing things like that imprint on you pretty had and can alter your preception of things.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 5:01:56 AM EDT
Well, I suspect that some of those situations really aren't a choice of life and death.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 5:04:32 AM EDT
The ones my mom were involved with were, she worked at ACH not an abortion clinic. ACH will only do abortions if a staff Doc says that the mother will die if they don't do it.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 5:06:11 AM EDT
ANd Doc's rush that judgement WAY to early IMHO.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 5:09:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RandallFlag:
ANd Doc's rush that judgement WAY to early IMHO.

We're talking about one of the top, if not THE top, childrens hospitial in the world. If a child can live, they will ensure that it happens.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 5:12:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2005 5:15:58 AM EDT by RandallFlag]

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By RandallFlag:
ANd Doc's rush that judgement WAY to early IMHO.

We're talking about one of the top, if not THE top, childrens hospitial in the world. If a child can live, they will ensure that it happens.




I was speaking in general terms.

I don't know how that hospital operates but my remark stands.

Doctors will take the easy way out many times for many reasons.

Link Posted: 8/27/2005 5:15:00 AM EDT
Last time i know of a DR taking the easy way out there, was the world famous Dr. Jonathon Drummond Webb. He was the subject of many tv shows. The heartache of his work caused him to take his ownlife several months ago.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 5:16:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2005 5:17:11 AM EDT by RandallFlag]
Well, I think the threath of malpractice suits has more to do with some of their decisions than the actual health of the child.

Link Posted: 8/27/2005 5:19:07 AM EDT
You know, there are some DR's out there are still dedicated to the health of their patients.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 5:22:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
You know, there are some DR's out there are still dedicated to the health of their patients.



Yes I know. I have one of them. He is what tells me much of this stuff. He tells me all the BS he has to deal with and how hard it makes for him to truly take care of his patients.


Again, I am not picking on the place your mother works at.

But my remarks stand.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 6:15:11 AM EDT
My brith mother was dying from breast cancer during her pregnancy with me. The doctors said that she could abort me and have more aggressive cancer treatment but she chose to have me instead of saving her own life. This was back in '60 before they had much of the treatment that they have today. Today they may have been able to save both of us but back then it was her or me and being the good mother that she was she made up her mind that saving her unborn son was more important to her. She was in a coma for the last month of her pregnancy and died 9 days after I was born.
As a Heathen we worship our ancestors and she is truly a woman that deserves my respect and worship. If people abort all of their offspring they'd be no future generation to give them veneration. I know that in the afterlife when I go to be with my ancestors my birth mother will be there and I can thank her in person for her sacrifice and for my life. In Frith and Troth.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:29:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 8:31:32 AM EDT by JennieJo]

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
Now abortions that are needed for medical reasons or due to rape, I can understand.



The only "abortions" that I'm aware of that are needed for medical reasons are ectopic pregnancies and women that become eclamptic. Both of which jepordize the lives of both.

With the eclamptic woman, the life threatening symptoms don't usually begin until well into the second trimester, at which the baby could survive if delivered early. So, it's not exactly an abortion.

As far as an ectopic pregnancy, both mother and child will die if carried to term. It would be murder to let both die. So, this is not a question of who to kill, it is a question of who to save. Science has not yet found a way to re-transplant the fetus into the mother's womb. Until then, we must save the one life that is saveable.

I would have to disagree with allowing a mother to murder their unborn child based on rape. If you found out today that you were the product of rape, should your mother be allowed to kill you based on that knowlege? Of course not. You have the right to life no matter who your mother or father is, and so should the unborn.

Anyone that believes that a fetus is truely a person, should also believe that an abortion is murder at any age. If your mother can't murder you today because she was raped, neither can a woman murder her child simply because of it's younger age.

The reason ALL humans spend the first several months of their existance inside the womb is so that they are protected at this most fragile, defenseless, innocent age. It was not designed to be a death sentence in waiting.

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:24:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
My opinion there is never a good reason to kill the unborn. I have never faced the situation you described but when I had my children my wife and I made a contingeny. If it came to a point where it was either the child or her, the child would live. If it came to both her and the child having a chance of dying, we agreed to let the child at least have a chance and take the risk.



I don't agree with your view, but I applaud you for being consistent. If life is sacred, its sacred even in cases of rape or danger to the mother.

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:42:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
My opinion there is never a good reason to kill the unborn. I have never faced the situation you described but when I had my children my wife and I made a contingeny. If it came to a point where it was either the child or her, the child would live. If it came to both her and the child having a chance of dying, we agreed to let the child at least have a chance and take the risk.



I don't agree with your view, but I applaud you for being consistent. If life is sacred, its sacred even in cases of rape or danger to the mother.




And that logically leads to a decision that one life is more valuable than the other.

In the case of a rape resulting in a pregnancy, the unborn baby is also a victim. I have read testimonies from women who have borne a child resulting from a rape. Some have kept the baby, and others have given it up for adoption, but in none of the accounts I've read did they regret preserving that small life that was dependent upon them.

On a different tangent, several years ago a coworker came to me for advice. His teenage daughter was pregnant by her boyfriend. They were considering abortion. I replied that I couldn't kill my grandchild just because the situation was inconvenient. He decided for her to have the procedure anyway.

People want to do whatever they want without consequence. Fooled around and made a baby? It's inconvenient? Get rid of it and pretend nothing happened.

Sadly, it's not that simple.

Statistically, about 98% of abortions are for convenience. I have this old fashioned notion that birth control should take place before conception.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 12:26:01 PM EDT
My general belief is that abortion is wrong except in cases of rape, incest, or the endangerment of the mother's life. Even then, it is something the woman should pray carefully to the Lord about.

FYI, my grandmother was told by her physician that she should have an abortion because of pregnancy complications that endangered her life. She prayed and chose to keep the baby. As a result my dad was born.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:42:51 PM EDT

IMHO the doctor should make every attempt to save both the mother and baby. A doctor should never intentionaly harm or end human life at any stage of development. Even at the risk of losing them both the doctor must always try to preserve the life of the mother and child. To not do so would go against the oath and duty of a doctor not to do harm. To not do so would violate my Christian beliefs.

Shok
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:49:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:
My general belief is that abortion is wrong except in cases of rape, incest, or the endangerment of the mother's life.




I have known people that were the result of rape and incest (slightly retarded). Despite the obstcales both are productive members of society. In either case two wrongs don't make a right.

Shok
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:17:28 PM EDT
to gives one's life in the service of the Lord (in this case childbrith) is a glorious thing.


Murdering an innocent is an atrocious crime that will be judged.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:49:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By QShok:

Originally Posted By Shane333:
My general belief is that abortion is wrong except in cases of rape, incest, or the endangerment of the mother's life.




I have known people that were the result of rape and incest (slightly retarded). Despite the obstcales both are productive members of society. In either case two wrongs don't make a right.

Shok



You left out the very next sentence of that quote. It was important.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:42:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:

You left out the very next sentence of that quote. It was important.



Not important to my point that aborting babies because of rape or incest is wrong. I already stated my opinion on when the mother health is in danger. Just my .02 on rape and incest.

Shok
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:02:25 AM EDT
Liberal paradigm shift:


1969: Military people being called "baby killers" because killing babies (even imaginary ones) is bad.


Post Roe v. Wade: Baby killers (real ones) are heroes to the liberal crowd because now killing babies is good.

Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:28:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JennieJo:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
Now abortions that are needed for medical reasons or due to rape, I can understand.



The only "abortions" that I'm aware of that are needed for medical reasons are ectopic pregnancies and women that become eclamptic. Both of which jepordize the lives of both.

With the eclamptic woman, the life threatening symptoms don't usually begin until well into the second trimester, at which the baby could survive if delivered early. So, it's not exactly an abortion.

As far as an ectopic pregnancy, both mother and child will die if carried to term. It would be murder to let both die. So, this is not a question of who to kill, it is a question of who to save. Science has not yet found a way to re-transplant the fetus into the mother's womb. Until then, we must save the one life that is saveable.

I would have to disagree with allowing a mother to murder their unborn child based on rape. If you found out today that you were the product of rape, should your mother be allowed to kill you based on that knowlege? Of course not. You have the right to life no matter who your mother or father is, and so should the unborn.

Anyone that believes that a fetus is truely a person, should also believe that an abortion is murder at any age. If your mother can't murder you today because she was raped, neither can a woman murder her child simply because of it's younger age.

The reason ALL humans spend the first several months of their existance inside the womb is so that they are protected at this most fragile, defenseless, innocent age. It was not designed to be a death sentence in waiting.





<golfclap>



I agree.

if one claims to hold to even the most basic tenets of the bible, then abortion is murder - period.

I cannot fathom how anyone could claim to hold to even the most basic tenets of the Bible and still believe otherwise.

Link Posted: 9/17/2005 2:02:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2005 2:03:27 PM EDT by ZitiForBreakfast]

Originally Posted By Shane333:
My general belief is that abortion is wrong except in cases of rape, incest, or the endangerment of the mother's life.



That is a very weak standpoint, to me you are 100% for abortion. You want an innocent child to be killed. The child did nothing wrong. Removing the "bad memory" of incest or rape should not include sucking the brains out of a fetus.

And, provide me the stat's where a woman has been killed because she gave birth and the true reasons why she died. I am interested in seeing what proof and facts you used to get to your stance.

Link Posted: 9/17/2005 2:06:49 PM EDT
If a Doctor tells me the baby my wife is carrying WILL kill my wife, I got bad news for the child.

God forgive me.

Abortion for "birth control" though is absolutely out of the question.

Just my conviction, I don't really care what you do as long as I don't have to pay for it.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 3:14:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WindGapAR15:
If the mothers life is in danger is it alright? Say surgery is urgently needed for a woman who recently found out she is pregnant and that it would be deadly for the unborn child. AT what point does it make it alright to abort the pregnancy in your opinion?



If the mother's life is in danger, yes, the baby may be aborted. HOWEVER, and listen to this carefully: That RARELY ever happens. VERY RARELY! That is why it is a non-issue.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 3:16:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bvmjethead:
If a Doctor tells me the baby my wife is carrying WILL kill my wife, I got bad news for the child.

God forgive me.

Abortion for "birth control" though is absolutely out of the question.

Just my conviction, I don't really care what you do as long as I don't have to pay for it.


You are in the right, even if it is sad and regrettable. Feel no pangs of conscience though, because, as I said, in such a case it is permissible. BUT: This is a one-in-a-hundred-million case...
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 7:37:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:

Originally Posted By Shane333:
My general belief is that abortion is wrong except in cases of rape, incest, or the endangerment of the mother's life.



That is a very weak standpoint, to me you are 100% for abortion. You want an innocent child to be killed. The child did nothing wrong. Removing the "bad memory" of incest or rape should not include sucking the brains out of a fetus.

And, provide me the stat's where a woman has been killed because she gave birth and the true reasons why she died. I am interested in seeing what proof and facts you used to get to your stance.




I find it so interesting that people say, "abortion is bad," yet leave the Lord out of it. Abortion is bad because it is in direct opposition to God's plan for His children.

Hence, I find it interesting that people are so critical of what I wrote, yet leave out the part of, "it is something the woman should pray carefully to the Lord about."

If a woman carefully prays to the Lord with sincerity, seeking His counsel, she is more than likely going to make the correct decision. Yet my suggestion for women to seek the Lord's counsel is answered on this forum with, " you are 100% for abortion. "
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 7:48:44 AM EDT
Surgery done. Baby and Mom fine.
Top Top