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Posted: 6/19/2014 2:47:15 AM EDT
This Gentleman is Michael Trömner, a historian and collector of early firearms. He posted this on vikingsword.com and I am reposting it here for everyone to see. This is beyond sad, it's criminal:

Since the German Reunification in 1990, state and museum funds for all cultural belongings in common, and especially for the purchase of antique 'military'/arsenal firearms - no matter how old and important they may be - , have been crudely cut back. Military firearms are officially condemned as possibly raising aggressive feelings with museum visitors viewing them.

The situation has aggravated, especially after those rampages acted by youngsters started. At Columbine high-school in Colorado, two senior students murdered 12 of their fellow students and one teacher in 1999. Moreover, they injured 24 students, with three other people being injured while attempting to escape. Eventually, the killers committed suicide.
The German cultural authorities feel that those antique historical firearms may incite young people to go mad and act in killing frenzy (German: Amoklauf). In 2009, at Winnenden high-school, Southern Germany, and in a murder-suicide act, a 17-year old student shot 16 people imcluding himself.

Actually, it was Swiss! cultural politicians who started that anti-historical firearms campaign in the 1990's. Consequently, large and important Swiss firearms collections have been banned from public exhibition and packed into the storage rooms. This happened to the large famous weapons collection at the Historisches Museum Berne, to the ample collections of the Swiss Landesmuseum Zurich and the Altes Zeughaus Solothurn, as well as to a other Swiss state museums.

And it was the same sad story with German museums as well. By the early 1990's, almost all firearms have been withdrawn from the exhibition rooms of such important museums as the Bayerisches Nationalmuseum Munich, the Deutsches Historisches Museum/Altes Zeughaus Berlin or the wonderful arsenal collection at the Stadtmuseum/Zeughaus Munich - to name just a few of them. Most antique firearms, 300 to 600 years old, have even been withdrawn from the huge exhibition halls of the Bayrisches Armeemuseum Ingolstadt, only 30 km next to my home.
They will never be on viewing again for at least the next 30 years!

On the other hand, crossbows, edged weapons like swords and, of course, all kinds of armor, are still officially regarded as noble and gallant (German: edel), knightly or even kingly, and are not primarily defined as means of war, by both the official political and cultural Swiss and German authorities and the museums. Consequently, they are allowed to stay on exhibition, while antique firearms, even - or maybe especially - when they are the earliest ever made, like all guns in my collection, which holds not one single item that was manufactured after ca. 1720! Even the most antique firearms are officially condemned - politically, morally and culturally, and are regarded as endangering peaceful life and politics.

The story is as sad as it is true. Most museum curators will look down in a highly suspicious way on any scholar asking to be granted access and do research on firearms and their accouterments. Many of those people, especially the so-called generation 1968, and of course female curators, even react personally and blatantly disgusted. Various times, I have been asked how I can manage to combine my academic interest in these items with my conscience, and have been affronted as being a firearms freak who is gaga about guns. Of course I have fired original 400 year-old muskets; is just part of my comprehensive research, and believe me: firing a matchlock musket that is 1.67 m long overall and weighs 1o kgs is an incomparable experience which leaves a lasting impression.

Everybody who really knows me and both my personal and political serious creed realizes that I actually love and defend peace, as well as the rights of all political persecutees and refugees, that I respect all living beings, and especially humans, no matter what color their skin may be or what nation belong to. I have always fought for the good fight, and animal rights. I love and defend all animals, and especially cats, from the bottom of my heart!
Not only am I a Christian and believe in God, I also graduated, among others, in Theology from Regensburg University in 1982.

But I also love historical arsenal arms, just for their cultural, historical, technical, art historical and social importance; and they clearly document the fact that there are both sides to every medal, as well as every human being is, and will always be, giftet with both good and evil - the reverse of the medal.

Link Posted: 6/19/2014 2:54:02 AM EDT
Europeans are effeminate weaklings... already knew this.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 3:00:08 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Castillo:
Europeans are effeminate weaklings... already knew this.
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We aren't far behind I am afraid.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 3:00:38 AM EDT
More bleeding heart-liberal pussification .

Anyone who leaves a museum and is somehow moved to violence merely from the display of firearms , needs serious fucking therapy .

This country WORLD is so fucked
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 3:05:31 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Castillo:
Europeans are effeminate weaklings... already knew this.
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History disagrees with your statement.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 3:05:44 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Castillo:
Europeans are effeminate weaklings... already knew this.
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We're the ones that produced Pajama Boy, I'm afraid.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 3:10:45 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Castillo:
European panty-wasted politicians are effeminate weaklings... already knew this.
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FIFY
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 3:11:16 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By mnvwguy02:


History disagrees with your statement.
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Originally Posted By mnvwguy02:
Originally Posted By Castillo:
Europeans are effeminate weaklings... already knew this.


History disagrees with your statement.


This.

It's more than likely the sheer amount of warfare, especially the horrific wars of the 19th and 20th centuries, that turned Europeans off of firearms. That, they never had the "right" to bear arms legally outlined like we did.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 3:26:07 AM EDT
I don't understand the theory that an object can somehow move a person to commit violence. Especially the early matchlocks, which are amazing pieces of technology and human ingenuity. The world has gone mad.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 3:34:49 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By batjka104:
I don't understand the theory that an object can somehow move a person to commit violence. Especially the early matchlocks, which are amazing pieces of technology and human ingenuity. The world has gone mad.
View Quote


The world hasn't GONE mad, it has always BEEN mad.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 3:36:43 AM EDT
"...........condemned as possibly raising aggressive feelings".


Link Posted: 6/19/2014 3:37:03 AM EDT
Damn hoplophobia.

I swear, some people around the world must think guns are made of Hate Metal and emit violence radiation that makes people go mad and want to murder people.

It's that stupid. Simply, purely, stupid.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 3:46:15 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ASRM:


We aren't far behind I am afraid.
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Originally Posted By ASRM:
Originally Posted By Castillo:
Europeans are effeminate weaklings... already knew this.


We aren't far behind I am afraid.


and rushing to catch-up
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 3:50:53 AM EDT
I had to google the guy...apparently he is fairly prominent in the museum/historical weapons world.

Wife being German...she's not shocked. "It's b/c most people over there have never even handled a gun"

More so in the West than East. In the East, she was required to do military type training in school (think...2k run with a rifle and grenades, with a grenade throwing station and shooting station).

Her mom was terrified by the thought that we have guns in the house. She's never seen one of them...but terrified with the knowledge they're here.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 4:17:00 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By robplumm:
I had to google the guy...apparently he is fairly prominent in the museum/historical weapons world.

Wife being German...she's not shocked. "It's b/c most people over there have never even handled a gun"

More so in the West than East. In the East, she was required to do military type training in school (think...2k run with a rifle and grenades, with a grenade throwing station and shooting station).

Her mom was terrified by the thought that we have guns in the house. She's never seen one of them...but terrified with the knowledge they're here.
View Quote


What's even more sad is that this guy, Michael Trommer, who had dedicated his life to early firearms research, is now a nuisance in Germany. He is very sick and can't even afford medicine. He has no income - no grants are coming from the government. No museum is interested in his collection, which is one of the most amazing in the world. It looks like they want him and his creed to disappear.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 4:18:53 AM EDT
Sad.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 4:20:24 AM EDT
I went to some castle in Nurmberg Germany in 2004. They had a decent collection of very large matchlock and other types of muzzle loading firearms. I hope that they have not caved yet.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 4:45:03 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By rickGI:
I went to some castle in Nurmberg Germany in 2004. They had a decent collection of very large matchlock and other types of muzzle loading firearms. I hope that they have not caved yet.
View Quote


Chances are, they have.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 4:52:23 AM EDT
In 25 years there will be land war in Europe. Maybe sooner, it just depends on economics. This shit runs in cycles and it WILL happen again.

You can't repress the human condition and human behavior forever. The more you try, the more violent the reaction will be.

Link Posted: 6/19/2014 5:09:00 AM EDT
I guess that is why my grandparents left Europe... they saw the pussification coming
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 5:27:17 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By phatmax:
In 25 years there will be land war in Europe. Maybe sooner, it just depends on economics. This shit runs in cycles and it WILL happen again.

You can't repress the human condition and human behavior forever. The more you try, the more violent the reaction will be.

View Quote


There's a war going on in Europe right now. If anyone had told me a year ago that Ukraine is going to explode like this, I would have called him a nut...

It's probably because the Ukrainians and the Russians go to museums with displays of ancient armor and arms too often.That's what had prompted the whole thing.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 5:31:10 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By mnvwguy02:


History disagrees with your statement.
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Originally Posted By mnvwguy02:
Originally Posted By Castillo:
Europeans are effeminate weaklings... already knew this.


History disagrees with your statement.


Fair enough. Modern Euros then
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 5:31:11 AM EDT
I'm happy to have the D-Day museum so close to me. And they just expanded! Will need to go pay them a visit to show support of their great collection.

Many of there machine guns where donated by widows/grand kids who found "grandpa's chest". Im glad they were preserved!
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 5:38:24 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Castillo:


Fair enough. Modern Euros then
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Originally Posted By Castillo:
Originally Posted By mnvwguy02:
Originally Posted By Castillo:
Europeans are effeminate weaklings... already knew this.


History disagrees with your statement.


Fair enough. Modern Euros then
This. The men have vaginas surgically grafted on at birth to decrease assertiveness and foster passivity.

They aren't even called "men" anymore. They're called "wem".
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 5:43:36 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By batjka104:


What's even more sad is that this guy, Michael Trommer, who had dedicated his life to early firearms research, is now a nuisance in Germany. He is very sick and can't even afford medicine. He has no income - no grants are coming from the government. No museum is interested in his collection, which is one of the most amazing in the world. It looks like they want him and his creed to disappear.
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Originally Posted By batjka104:
Originally Posted By robplumm:
I had to google the guy...apparently he is fairly prominent in the museum/historical weapons world.

Wife being German...she's not shocked. "It's b/c most people over there have never even handled a gun"

More so in the West than East. In the East, she was required to do military type training in school (think...2k run with a rifle and grenades, with a grenade throwing station and shooting station).

Her mom was terrified by the thought that we have guns in the house. She's never seen one of them...but terrified with the knowledge they're here.


What's even more sad is that this guy, Michael Trommer, who had dedicated his life to early firearms research, is now a nuisance in Germany. He is very sick and can't even afford medicine. He has no income - no grants are coming from the government. No museum is interested in his collection, which is one of the most amazing in the world. It looks like they want him and his creed to disappear.
In Germany? Intriguing...

He should have a pension and "free medical"
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 5:48:34 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By primuspilum:
This. The men have vaginas surgically grafted on at birth to decrease assertiveness and foster passivity.

They aren't even called "men" anymore. They're called "wem".
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Originally Posted By primuspilum:
Originally Posted By Castillo:
Originally Posted By mnvwguy02:
Originally Posted By Castillo:
Europeans are effeminate weaklings... already knew this.


History disagrees with your statement.


Fair enough. Modern Euros then
This. The men have vaginas surgically grafted on at birth to decrease assertiveness and foster passivity.

They aren't even called "men" anymore. They're called "wem".


Link Posted: 6/19/2014 6:16:28 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By robplumm:
In Germany? Intriguing...

He should have a pension and "free medical"
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Originally Posted By robplumm:
Originally Posted By batjka104:
Originally Posted By robplumm:
I had to google the guy...apparently he is fairly prominent in the museum/historical weapons world.

Wife being German...she's not shocked. "It's b/c most people over there have never even handled a gun"

More so in the West than East. In the East, she was required to do military type training in school (think...2k run with a rifle and grenades, with a grenade throwing station and shooting station).

Her mom was terrified by the thought that we have guns in the house. She's never seen one of them...but terrified with the knowledge they're here.


What's even more sad is that this guy, Michael Trommer, who had dedicated his life to early firearms research, is now a nuisance in Germany. He is very sick and can't even afford medicine. He has no income - no grants are coming from the government. No museum is interested in his collection, which is one of the most amazing in the world. It looks like they want him and his creed to disappear.
In Germany? Intriguing...

He should have a pension and "free medical"



That's what I thought, too. But I guess in order to get free medicine he would have to get rid of all possessions, including the collection.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 6:18:47 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By batjka104:



That's what I thought, too. But I guess in order to get free medicine he would have to get rid of all possessions, including the collection.
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Originally Posted By batjka104:
Originally Posted By robplumm:
Originally Posted By batjka104:
Originally Posted By robplumm:
I had to google the guy...apparently he is fairly prominent in the museum/historical weapons world.

Wife being German...she's not shocked. "It's b/c most people over there have never even handled a gun"

More so in the West than East. In the East, she was required to do military type training in school (think...2k run with a rifle and grenades, with a grenade throwing station and shooting station).

Her mom was terrified by the thought that we have guns in the house. She's never seen one of them...but terrified with the knowledge they're here.


What's even more sad is that this guy, Michael Trommer, who had dedicated his life to early firearms research, is now a nuisance in Germany. He is very sick and can't even afford medicine. He has no income - no grants are coming from the government. No museum is interested in his collection, which is one of the most amazing in the world. It looks like they want him and his creed to disappear.
In Germany? Intriguing...

He should have a pension and "free medical"



That's what I thought, too. But I guess in order to get free medicine he would have to get rid of all possessions, including the collection.

Fuck that 42% of his income he paid every month for his entire life, eh?

I might have to inquire to the wife more about the med system over there later today....I know her mom buys supplemental insurance for several hundred a month. She also got "screwed" on her pension for being in the East Those in the west literally get around 3x more.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 6:18:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2014 6:23:53 AM EDT by Erik_O]
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Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
Damn hoplophobia.

I swear, some people around the world must think guns are made of Hate Metal and emit violence radiation that makes people go mad and want to murder people.

It's that stupid. Simply, purely, stupid.
View Quote

Where's the "Shut Up and Take My Money" gif?

Ah, here's one:

Link Posted: 6/19/2014 6:21:18 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Erik_O:

Where's the "Shut Up and Take My Money" gif?
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Originally Posted By Erik_O:
Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
Damn hoplophobia.

I swear, some people around the world must think guns are made of Hate Metal and emit violence radiation that makes people go mad and want to murder people.

It's that stupid. Simply, purely, stupid.

Where's the "Shut Up and Take My Money" gif?

No shit, I want a Hate Metal upper too!


Link Posted: 6/19/2014 6:22:32 AM EDT
Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any
other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.
Nations and peoples who forget this basic truth have always paid for it
with their lives and freedoms.
- Heinlein
View Quote


When I read stories like this or run into people or groups that espouse the idea that anything can be negotiated or talked out, my mind always goes back to this quote and the truth in it.


Link Posted: 6/19/2014 7:01:05 AM EDT
The Germannic tribes were once feared to a point that even Caesar's legions only made a short forray across the Rhine. Their military hardware was some of the best available in later years, their ships able to go toe to toe with the Grand Fleet. Then, the British and the French set the stage for such fanatical nationalistic socialism as embodied by the Nazi party, and the various evils that were committed. You can thank the Treaty of Versailles and the rest of Europe for that one.

Now, the entire county seems to have been turned into eunichs. Any kind of national pride is apparently related to Nazism and therefore shunned or avoided, violence is censored in all forms of media, museums and histories burried. Sad to see such a culture like that turn so weak.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 7:06:17 AM EDT
The white Mr. T will be along shortly to explain, I'm sure.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 7:11:26 AM EDT
FYIGM


Link Posted: 6/19/2014 7:14:45 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Castillo:
Europeans are effeminate weaklings... already knew this.
View Quote



Come to the military museum in Tallinn and see the fun game where kids get to shoot down Russian helicopters with an M2.



You have to start them young
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 7:17:55 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Castillo:
Europeans are effeminate weaklings... already knew this.
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Aren't you the ones who expel kids from school for having food in the shape of guns?
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 7:20:27 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Willmar:
The white Mr. T will be along shortly to explain, I'm sure.
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lol que
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 10:40:10 AM EDT
Does anyone here have any connections in museums? Maybe someone will be able to help Mr. Tromner, if only for an amazing knowledge he'd acquired over the years. It's unbelievable that a leading firearms scholar is abandoned and left in a desperate situation.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 10:45:15 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Lacoochee:


When I read stories like this or run into people or groups that espouse the idea that anything can be negotiated or talked out, my mind always goes back to this quote and the truth in it.


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Originally Posted By Lacoochee:
Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any
other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.
Nations and peoples who forget this basic truth have always paid for it
with their lives and freedoms.
- Heinlein


When I read stories like this or run into people or groups that espouse the idea that anything can be negotiated or talked out, my mind always goes back to this quote and the truth in it.





Believing in peace solveing everything is as asinine as believing violence will solve everything.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 10:48:34 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By outofbattery:



Come to the military museum in Tallinn and see the fun game where kids get to shoot down Russian helicopters with an M2.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/mossie500/coldness/IMAG2012.jpg

You have to start them young
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Originally Posted By outofbattery:
Originally Posted By Castillo:
Europeans are effeminate weaklings... already knew this.



Come to the military museum in Tallinn and see the fun game where kids get to shoot down Russian helicopters with an M2.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/mossie500/coldness/IMAG2012.jpg

You have to start them young

I really want to visit.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 10:56:56 AM EDT
I'm not surprised by the Germans Doing this, they have worked very hard in the recent past to eliminate all historical references to violence. Part of it being fueled by the atrocities they committed during WWII. I cant blame them After all what country would advertise they committed one of the worst genocides the world has every seen! But it is part of history and sad to see them covering it up and to have a whole young generation of young German men and women who have no knowledge of the world wars.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 12:42:09 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By p2tharizo:


Democrats We're the ones that produced Pajama Boy, I'm afraid.
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Originally Posted By p2tharizo:
Originally Posted By Castillo:
Europeans are effeminate weaklings... already knew this.


Democrats We're the ones that produced Pajama Boy, I'm afraid.

Fixed it
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 12:42:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Castillo:
Europeans are effeminate weaklings... already knew this.
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Didn't really help much when we marched over and killed off two generations worth of Alpha males in two world wars.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 3:12:23 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By JordanJP:


The world hasn't GONE mad, it has always BEEN mad.
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Originally Posted By JordanJP:
Originally Posted By batjka104:
I don't understand the theory that an object can somehow move a person to commit violence. Especially the early matchlocks, which are amazing pieces of technology and human ingenuity. The world has gone mad.


The world hasn't GONE mad, it has always BEEN mad.


Except it used to limp and hop to keep up with rationality. Now it's taken the lead. We're going backwards in so many ways.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 5:28:09 PM EDT
I just wanted to add that these "authorities" are missing the big picture. Because after all, what constituted a "firearm". It is no more than a pipe closed on one end with a touch hole drilled in. A 2n grader can make one with supplies from a local hardware store. Same goes for a powder - both charcoal and saltpeter are easily made. So if anyone wants to make a gun and shoot someone with it, he could do so fairly easily. The genie is out of the bottle, no matter what the politicians think.

But Michael's collection is not an "arsenal of deadly weapons", but an insight into progress of human civilizatoon. I've seen photos - he has everything from earliest crude barrels to extremely complicated matchlocks, as well as period artwork depicting yhease weapons in action. To say that all this stuff is merely killing instruments would be to ignore everything associated with human history and culture.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 5:33:57 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By mnvwguy02:


History disagrees with your statement.
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Originally Posted By mnvwguy02:
Originally Posted By Castillo:
Europeans are effeminate weaklings... already knew this.


History disagrees with your statement.
LOL...(Agreeing with you) no shit.
Link Posted: 6/20/2014 2:09:55 AM EDT
Bump
Link Posted: 6/20/2014 2:10:37 AM EDT
Bump
Link Posted: 6/20/2014 2:20:32 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By outofbattery:



Come to the military museum in Tallinn and see the fun game where kids get to shoot down Russian helicopters with an M2.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/mossie500/coldness/IMAG2012.jpg

You have to start them young
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Originally Posted By outofbattery:
Originally Posted By Castillo:
Europeans are effeminate weaklings... already knew this.



Come to the military museum in Tallinn and see the fun game where kids get to shoot down Russian helicopters with an M2.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/mossie500/coldness/IMAG2012.jpg

You have to start them young


God bless Estonia!
Link Posted: 6/20/2014 2:32:28 AM EDT
White guilt.
Link Posted: 6/20/2014 2:44:51 AM EDT
Mo-rans, everywhere!
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