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Posted: 8/22/2017 12:27:07 PM EDT
A little background information.  I've come close to dead a few times by my own hand, other's hands and G-d's hand.  The only thing I'm afraid of is water over my head.  I can swim, but for some reason when it's over my head I'm like a cat duct taped to a cinder block.

My wife of 35 years loves the water, she was probably a fish in a previous life.  Because of me, she's missed out on something she really enjoys.  A few years ago we bought kayaks.  Mine was supposed to be more stable and it was more expensive.  It came in in early April.  Like a dumb-ass I put it in the water right away.  

The shop is on the Fox River here in Green Bay.  I get on the water, take one paddle stroke and I'm in the water not on it.  The river is real freaking cold.  Despite the PFD I'm in an f'ing panic.  Fortunately there's a close fishing boat and they drag my ass out.  I didn't buy the boat.

For our 35th anniversary, two weeks ago, we went canoeing on the Chain-of-Lakes.  Google it, beautiful water in central Wisconsin.  Though scarred shitless.  She was in the canoe with me and kept me calm.  The first third of the time I was literally white-knuckled on the sides.  I not only survived but actually got into it and had fun.

When she goes out to kayak I sit on a dock and wait for her to come back.  It sucks and she doesn't get to really enjoy it for thinking she has to come back soon.  But she's never complained.

At 56 I'm not in the fighting trim I was in my youth.  I'm afraid a small cockpit will hold me under water should I tip over.  Obviously stability is important.  I've done some internet research, but initial stability is important so I can at least stay upright until I get going and secondary is important if I get going.  Few boats seem to have both.  Then all the technical specs get confusing.  Inside, sit-on-top, hybrid, blah, blah, blah.  I'm sure I'm overthinking the whole thing out of fear and one experience.

This weekend our 7 year old granddaughter was talking about wanting to go.  My wife said she would love to take her.  I told her she was still too young.  Later she went to the store with my wife.  On the way she said, "So, let's talk about this kayaking thing.  Grandpa doesn't want me to go because he's afraid I'll fall out and drown, doesn't he?"  She's seven!  It seems that it's time for me to man-up.

I'd like a good, solid, affordable basic kayak that's stable and I can get comfortable and confident with.  I'm tired of watching my wife paddle off into the sunset without me.  We're missing out fun we can have together and with our grandchildren.  

Suggestions, advice, ideas?

Edit to add required photo of my wife.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 12:34:04 PM EDT
[#1]
The flater the bottom the more stable it is. Look at a fishing model as the opening will be larger
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 12:37:08 PM EDT
[#2]
I've got a couple sit on top fishing kayaks that are almost hard to dump.

Bass pro has a line they carry, ascend maybe, that are super wide sit on tops. Look into those.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 12:37:34 PM EDT
[#3]
A lot of people (the gear snobs) badmouth them, but I was given a Pelican kayak for a Christmas present. If all you want to do is paddle around on flat water, it's a good kayak. I've rocked the hell out of it to see what it would take to flip and have found that it would take a lot to dump me.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 12:38:35 PM EDT
[#4]
I'm 40 and while yeah I can swim I really don't like the water - I mean do you KNOW what fish DO in that water

Anyway

I got a sit in 14' perception sport

I'm not overweight - but no matter I've not fallen out of the kayak - Unless you try or get it hung on something sideways it will not flip

At least me in mine

If you get a sit in and a skirt for it you can self right the boat if it flips assuming the water is deep enough (more of an ocean going kayak thing but)

I rather like Kayaking and go as often as I can - rivers in south MS are pretty
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 12:40:01 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I've got a couple sit on top fishing kayaks that are almost hard to dump.

Bass pro has a line they carry, ascend maybe, that are super wide sit on tops. Look into those.
View Quote
Ascend is a good choice.

I have a Wilderness Systems Aspire 105 and it has a drop down skeg that gives it even more stability.  Some people don't like a sit in though because they feel trapped if you were to tip over.  I've never had that thought though.  It's very stable.



I'd still recommend an Ascend though.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 12:42:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Look into the Vibe kayak line and maybe even add some of these outriggers
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 12:43:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Do you wear a life jacket when you kayak?

I have a SUP, not a kayak, but I always wear an inflatable PFD and a leash (more valuable IMO).

I've been tossed off in some windy/choppy weather, but staying connected to the floaty things made it much less invigorating.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 12:48:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Sit on top fishing kayak and spend more time in and on the water.

Practice getting in and out in shallow water or a pool.

Drop some coin on a decent PFD and learn to wear it correctly.

Spend more time in and on the water. (Wash,rinse,repeat)

Good luck
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 12:50:44 PM EDT
[#9]
We've been taking our kids kayaking for 4 years.  The youngest is 8 now.  7 isn't too young.  Get a good PFD for them that has a anti-submarine strap and a recovery handle on the back shoulder.  

My kids swim so that helps.  Youngest is not a strong swimmer but he's been flipped into the river a few times.  He panics a bit but he treds water and swims to the river shore.

Flat bottom fishing kayaks are usually the most stable.   You can add out riggers to most also.  Honestly, some people are so bad around water they could flip a kayak sitting on shore.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 12:52:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Don't let your fear ruin the fun for everyone else. Being cautious is one thing but you have a phobia. I dated a girl that was afraid of water and had the same problems

I have taken my 4 and 6 year olds out on the small quarry lakes and some local creeks near the house and had no issues. One sits in the cargo hold and the other sits at my feet. They lean way over the sides to see stuff. We've never accidentally Been swimming. Just a leisurely glide through the water. They have pfd's on at all times though.

Let you wife take them on her boat. You tak your on. The bigger fishing kayaks are what you need. Sit on top, Jackson tuna, wilderness atac, diablo.... something along those lines.

See if you can rent one before you buy. Take it out in shallow still water and try to tip it and find out what it takes you'll be surprised.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 12:57:26 PM EDT
[#11]
Kayaking is a blast.  I learned to kayak years ago in Moab Utah in Westwater canyon on the Colorado River.  

The vary first thing the instructor taught me was how to do a "wet exit".  He explained it to me step by step:  
1.  Straighten your legs out.  
2.  Pull the splash skirt release cord with your free hand (1 hand holds the paddle).  
3.  With your free hand push the boat off your legs (do not attempt to pull yourself out of the boat, push the boat off of you).  
4.  Surface and grab the boat.  
We did that over and over until it became instinctive.

The next thing I learned was high and low braces and hip snaps to keep the boat upright.

Then I learned how to (Eskimo) roll.

After that we rapids, and it was a blast!
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:01:16 PM EDT
[#12]
If you are afraid of water over your head, you do not know how to swim.  Get into a Master's swim class and learn how to swim.  It will give you the confidence in open water that you need.  That with a proper kayaking wetsuit, and you will be fine.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:03:41 PM EDT
[#13]
I'm 6'4 280 and a lot of torso, so high center of gravity. I have a 14.5 foot Malibu stealth. Pretty flat bottom and 550lb capacity so it is rock steady. I can stand up and paddle it with a little care no chance I'll flip while seated. My daughter can move from now to stern while I'm paddling without a problem (6yo, 60lbs). Make sure your kayak has significantly more capacity than you plan on loading it with and that will greatly help with stability.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:04:58 PM EDT
[#14]
As others have said, I think a wide, flat bottom, sit on top kayak would suit you. I have a Wilderness Ride 135 and it is so stable I can stand upon it and fish if I want to. It is more like a tri-hull design which gives it great primary stability. The trade off is it isn't as fast as some others, but you can still cover some distance with it.  I just cruise anyway. It isn't a race. Whatever you choose. Wear a good PFD and practice doing deep water recovery with it flipping it and getting back into it in water where you can't touch the bottom. The confidence will ease your fears.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:08:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Skip sit inside kayaks.  They may be decently stable, they may not, but you're definitely not going to want to be in a cockpit if it flips.  I've done ocean kayak recovery procedures and been trained on underwater exits, and that's exactly the sort of thing that you would hate.

Stay with a good solid, wide-bodied sit-on-top kayak.  Fishing models as mentioned above, tend to be wider and more stable, to enable easier fishing.  You're probably going to want something around 10-12 feet long; much more length and you may find the weight gets problematic in moving it around, and you're not going to gain any stability.  The key is learning how to paddle smoothly, and for that it really does help to take some classes.  Experience will get you there as well, if you paddle a lot, but most people simply have no idea how to actually maneuver a craft with paddles.  I've taken an 8 foot sit-on-top out in a small craft advisory without flipping or losing gear, and it's very doable.

Figure $500-600 for a good kayak.  Buy a cheap paddle at first if you want, but life will be so much easier and happier if you spend the money for a nice carbon fiber paddle, up in the $200-300 range; the difference is night and day, particularly if you're paddling longer distances on flat water.  And in the same vein, spending money on a good PFD is probably advisable as well.  I rarely wear mine except when expecting trouble on a river, or in a storm, or heavy surf, etc...but a well made $75-100 PFD is far more comfortable and wearable than a $20 Wal-Mart generic PFD.  A paddle strap or leash may be a good idea, depending on the kayak design and if it has a paddle holder.  Some boats come with good seats, others basically require you to buy a detachable fabric seat.  If so, be sure to buy it and get a good quality one; an uncomfortable seat is going to suck.

In 15 years of paddling in all sorts of dumb conditions, I've only flipped by accident once or twice.  It's not a big deal, it just takes practice to get comfortable...and once you do, you're going to love it.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:15:16 PM EDT
[#16]
OP,

You and I are near the same age, but I started fishing for bass from kayaks about five years ago. I still go almost every weekend. Love it.

I own three boats.  A sit inside and two sit on tops.  Go with the latter, preferably a wider one. Sit inside type kayaks are more stable because they keep your center of gravity low, but can swamp and are harder to get in and out of. I can roll off my SOT's and self rescue in deep water in those because they don't swamp if rolled.  In deep water you'll likely just leave your sit in type and swim for shore.

SOT boats often come with nice, removable stadium chairs.  I prefer these because they keep your butt off any water that might get on the deck. Easy to get in and out of too.

My current favorite is what I consider the best bang for the buck in the SOT kayak market. It is Perception Pescador Pro 12'. I did a lot of trials and price comparisons before buying it. It is as stable (wide and low COG) as any chaired SOT fishing kayaks that I demo'd and only cost about half of what most popular models cost. Got mine at a kayak outfitter's store for $750 after tax.

Discovered this weekend that my only limited water in this boat was while testing it in some class 3 rapids. Lakes, flat rivers, class 2 creeks and mild breaking surf, you are good to go.  Class 3 does not like my old ass in a 12' fishing lounger.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:16:19 PM EDT
[#17]
For your phobia I don't know if any kind of kayak will make you feel comfortable. Sounds like you're better off with a Drift boat or quality raft, They are designed for rough water and are damn near impossible to swamp. Throw on a trolling motor if you want to make things easier.

Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:18:12 PM EDT
[#18]
I've got a Wilderness Systems Ride 135.  It's a sit-on fishing kayak that I can sit on it sideways and dangle my feet in the water while the kayak remains fully stable.   You will fall off this thing before it will flip on you.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:27:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Nucanoe Frontier - two seater

If you turn it over you screwed up bad. Watch some youtube videos of people trying to flip it. 
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:36:46 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If you are afraid of water over your head, you do not know how to swim.  Get into a Master's swim class and learn how to swim.  It will give you the confidence in open water that you need.  That with a proper kayaking wetsuit, and you will be fine.
View Quote
Agreed. Only thing I can add is getting some neoprene diver's boots if in cold water. I use a pair of them in winter (Alabama). These do not turn into water buckets like regular muck style knee highs or waders. I don't want to fiddle with trying to remove rubber boots while swimming in cold water. You are in a cold clime. The wet suit would be a great idea, too. We have mild winters, so I use the knee high diver boots, wool socks, jeans lower torso and wool jacket up top just in case I find myself making a fire on a bank after taking an accidental swim. A good PFD if it is warm or cold. Always a PFD.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:48:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
For your phobia I don't know if any kind of kayak will make you feel comfortable. Sounds like you're better off with a Drift boat or quality raft, They are designed for rough water and are damn near impossible to swamp. Throw on a trolling motor if you want to make things easier.

http://www.theoutdoorline.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/IMG_9272-1.jpg
View Quote
Yep, very stable. You can walk around in them. Is that your boat? I am thinking of buying one.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:49:54 PM EDT
[#22]
http://feelfreeus.com/kayaks/fishing-kayaks/lure-11-5/

But you should probably find a paddleboat retailer and take a basic safety course before you buy anything.

Just google around and make some phone calls:  http://www.allaboutrivers.com/Wisconsin_kayak_lessons/Wisconsin_paddling_schools-BT7-sWI.html
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:50:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Fear is the mind killer.  It is the little death. 

Honestly. Take swimming lessons. Start swimming laps.  Address the fear the water and the kayak will become stable. I can talk long about the various merits of design-but confidence is the foundation. When I taught, two first lessons were hanging out upside down (for a rescue) and wet exit.  Once you did this to students they became comfortable and were no longer tippy. That said, with a true phobia, you need to work that out first
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:52:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Try a boat.  After decades of nothing but being on nice stable boats, I got into a canoe and thought it was like trying to stay balanced on a log.  Very nerve wracking.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:11:23 PM EDT
[#25]
I love my Old Town Predator MX, lots of room. I've busted through ice with it  It Sounds to me like you  should also spend time in a pool or something to get comfortable with being in the water.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:12:31 PM EDT
[#26]
Disclaimer: Phobias drive me insane.

You're a grown man. You know you can swim. You know you're wearing a PFD. Sack up and quit being a baby. Get over it. Push yourself through it. There's the solution to your problem.

As for choices, any of the sit on top fishing kayaks should work for you. I had a Tarpon 120 that was very stable.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:12:58 PM EDT
[#27]
I've got a Jackson Cruise and a Wilderness System Tarpon. Both around of them are around 12ft and I think pretty stable. I've had them for about 2 year and have had my youngest daughter on them with me since we got them. she would lean over and move all around and I e never came close to flipping. Both have positives and negatives. The cruise has a more comfortable seat,  almost like a camping chair, while the Tarpon is quite a bit faster. I like sit on top much more than the sit in myself. Just pick one that's comfortable to you. Sit it in shallow water and rock back and forth and learn to use the foot pegs to brace yourself. Once you get comfortable with that and know the capabilities of your boat you'll feel a lot better on the water.  You still need to work on that fear by getting in water as often as possible.  You need your brain to be able to kick in if/when you end up in the water sometime. Moving water isn't the place to panic even if you're wearing a pfd.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:16:08 PM EDT
[#28]
I've never fallen out of my Kayak when underway.  I'm not very graceful and have managed to end up in the water several times when getting in and out of the darn thing.  I mostly do lakes.  I've been out when the wind was blowing waves onto the top deck of the Kayak and still felt stable.  I spent the extra $ on good fitting life jackets and always wear one.

I like the canoe much more.  Have you checked on outriggers for your canoe?  Look kind of funky, but might make the difference in how you feel in the boat.  I've seen a couple of home made units.  Much easier for me to get in and out of the canoe.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:16:25 PM EDT
[#29]
A PFD won't matter dick if the water is so cold that you're unable to get out of the water.      

 Once you get bellow 65/60 degrees of water, the ability of self rescue and survival drops rapidly.  At 55 and bellow, you will likely die unless you're wearing protective outerwear that keeps you dry.  
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:20:21 PM EDT
[#30]
I run a Ascend FS12T from Bass Pro shops.

It's a sit on top flat bottom that is stable enough I can sit on it with legs hanging off the side or stand in it to cast.

You'd have to purposely try to turn turtle in it to get wet.  

The downside is with that much stability you give up speed and maneuverability.

Certainly a great yak for the lakes, not so much for a faster/narrower river
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:20:25 PM EDT
[#31]
Agree on above suggestion of Wilderness Ride, nice and stable. Emotion SOT angler Stealth models are also stable platforms.
Another poster suggested the Bass Pro Asscent model, I haven't paddled one but the SOT is wide and looks stable, check out the reviews on that one also.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:21:13 PM EDT
[#32]
Got the one in my avatar from Menards for around $200.  It is a viper brand.  

Three other buddies have went and got the same ones.  

They are damn near impossible to flip.  Actually, nobody has flipped theirs yet.

Even with my spastic 65lb Dutch shepherd on board I've never been over.


Labor day weekend we're doing a 3 day float/camp trip down the Kansas river.  

Can't wait.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:22:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Yep, very stable. You can walk around in them. Is that your boat? I am thinking of buying one.
View Quote
Not mine, I sold mine  few years ago for a bigger boat, but loved the hell out of the drift boat. The damn thing would draft in 4'' of water with 4 people and gear and could cut right through rapids like they weren't even there. Just keep it headed straight and you were good to go. I would consider it if I were OP especially if he likes fishing one of the best drift boat manufacturers in the country is ran out of Wisconsin Hyde boats.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:23:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Ascend is a good choice.

I have a Wilderness Systems Aspire 105 and it has a drop down skeg that gives it even more stability.  Some people don't like a sit in though because they feel trapped if you were to tip over.  I've never had that thought though.  It's very stable.

https://cdni.llbean.net/is/image/wim/295447_32594_41?hei=200&wid=174

I'd still recommend an Ascend though.
View Quote
I have the Aspire 105 as well. The only time I've tipped it was getting into it after "several" beverages.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:27:59 PM EDT
[#35]
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:29:42 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Fear is the mind killer.  It is the little death. 

Honestly. Take swimming lessons. Start swimming laps.  Address the fear the water and the kayak will become stable. I can talk long about the various merits of design-but confidence is the foundation. When I taught, two first lessons were hanging out upside down (for a rescue) and wet exit.  Once you did this to students they became comfortable and were no longer tippy. That said, with a true phobia, you need to work that out first
View Quote
Best reply.
good luck.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:33:42 PM EDT
[#37]
Your own fear is likely making you more unstable in the boat. There are plenty of good, stable, boats out there, but unless you are comfortable in the water, you shouldn't be in them. Take the advice of other posters and overcome your water-panic, and you will not have any more problems with boats.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:40:28 PM EDT
[#38]
In my very limited experience, generally a sit-in kayak will be more stable if only because your center of gravity is lower. That said, if you are worried about filling the boat and sinking it, I would look into a sit-on-top fishing kayak. It's not going to be as fast or maneuverable as some others but they plenty stable. There are a lot of youtube videos if you search "kayak stability test", this is just one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQkLy0vGE0s
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 3:12:22 PM EDT
[#39]
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 3:12:23 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Nucanoe Frontier - two seater

If you turn it over you screwed up bad. Watch some youtube videos of people trying to flip it. 
View Quote
Great advice here.

I've had one for 2 years, it's incredibly stable and an awesome all around kayak.

The Frontier 12 - Stability
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 3:21:08 PM EDT
[#41]
I want to say props to you for stepping out of your comfort zone to do something for your family!










dibs on guns!

Jk you will be fine!
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 4:03:31 PM EDT
[#42]
In all fairness, will describe what happened to me early summer.  First understand I used to paddle a LOT.  Not float and fish, but rapids, playboating, miles, and competition.  Stand up paddles kind of scared me.  Got a nice one for my wife in June and tried to paddle it.  I did not fall, but I did not enjoy it.  I was in a lake/river that I did not know.  I could see stuff under the water that I just knew would skewer me if I fell.  Plus they lied, it was not that stable...  (fwiw I was perfectly ok kayaking there)

Took a different stand up board (one with more volume, wife's was simply too small for me), to water that was not full of punji sticks and wow-I was stable.  , Boat can mater, but fear sucks.  

Always was tippy with canoes.  Took a race oriented course with my stepson-that canoe was perfectly stable.  Instructor explained how that canoe was "race outfitted". It seams that canoes for serious canoeists have different geometry than rec boats.  The Alumacraft Voyager I paddled had the stock seats removed and adjustable wenonah seats installed (about 2" lower than stock).  They allow you to balance the boat fore/aft and lower the center of gravity.  Just changing the seating entirely changed the experiance.  Moral of story-take classes, you never know what you will learn.  My favorite boat now is a canoe (31lb, 17' Wenonna Voyager  Kevlar Ultralite).  Every design is a compromise, it is a very light, fast tripper-which makes it a super stable, slow race boat (race boats are very not stable, so understand the "super stable" is relative to race boats, likewise "slow" still makes it the fastest canoe/kayak have ever owned).  Kevlar race boats make black rifle disease feel inexpensive 

Lots of modern fishing kayaks can be stood in (you might need a pull up strap-don't be embarrassed).  That said, wide = slow.  Deal with the phobia.  If your wife enjoys canoes-take a canoeing class.

old kayak joke:
A one person kayak is called k1, a one person canoe is a C1, a tandom kayak is a K2, a tandem canoe is a divorce-if you do it, take classes.
-
I looking forward to canoeing with my wife some this fall.  Will see how that goes.  Going from padding 2-3 days a week to being married, don't think I have been in a kayak/canoe with my wife for 30 minutes in 15 years.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 4:21:46 PM EDT
[#43]
Get one of the Lifetime 10' sit on tops at Walmart. Angler model is OD green and a regular is lime green. They're pretty wide and very stable. It can not. Be. Flipped.

They aren't made for rapids (but it's gonna see some later this year) but on lakes and more calm rivers I can sit on it sideways and even stand up on it and I'm 6'1" and 275lbs.

I got one and my step dad sold his more expensive yak and got one too after taking mine out.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 4:31:26 PM EDT
[#44]
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 4:40:35 PM EDT
[#45]
Wife and I bought  Old Town Vapor 10' XT model kayaks 6 years ago.
Super stable, big cockpit, easy to move. I added poles holders.

Last summer I told the wife, hold my beer, I want to swamp this thing. I had to really lean on the side to take on water and continue to push to easily fall out...can't get trapped in this big mouth kayak. The kayak stayed afloat and I kicked to shore to bail it out...that was a bitch.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 4:41:37 PM EDT
[#46]
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