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Posted: 5/4/2004 5:44:50 PM EST
There is the battle sight zero for the AR15/M16 that if you zero it at 25 yards, it is zeroed for 200 yds.

Is there a comparable figure for .308 and .30-06?

How many use the 25 yard zero procedure for 5.56/.223 vs. zeroing it at 100 yards?
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 5:48:40 PM EST
the 20" A2 has a 25/300 yard zero.

This is the point where the bullet rises to where the sights are alinged, and then continues to rise, and then passes back through that line of sight.

Any gun set up in a manner will have this ability, the issue is where do these 2 points of the parabola intersect the line of sight.

TXL
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 5:54:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By TxLewis:
the 20" A2 has a 25/300 yard zero.

This is the point where the bullet rises to where the sights are alinged, and then continues to rise, and then passes back through that line of sight.

Any gun set up in a manner will have this ability, the issue is where do these 2 points of the parabola intersect the line of sight.

TXL

What I read was 200 yards. Oh well.


I see what you are saying, but wouldn't ballistics of different caliber require that the shorter zero range vary?
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 6:27:29 PM EST

The AR15 or M16 zero's at 25 meters, not yards. The 25 meter zero is also the 300 meter zero. In high power competition shooting, you'll zero your AR at 200 yards, then get a zero for 300 yards and 600 yards. You'll figure out these three zeros and will write them in your log book, so you'll know how many clicks it's going to take to hit the 10 ring the first time out at the different firing lines. If you use a M1A for high power competition, you'll shoot to find these three same zeros for your rifle.

The military always uses meters now and civilians always use yards it seems.

As for .308 and .30-06, they are usually zeroed at 200 yards or 200 meters, depending on which you want to use. Most .308 battle rifles, like the fal, start their rear sights at 200 yards, as in the L1A1, or at 200 meters at in the G1 FAL. For M1 Garands, most find their zeros for each 100 yards, then mark it down in a log book. You might even find some rifleman that place marks on their rear sights to where certain zeros are.

And with a lot of bullet drop compensated scopes, you'll zero at 200 yards or meters.

Leading to, if you really want to find out where your rifle shoots, write your shots down in a log book with where the sights are set at.


Link Posted: 5/4/2004 6:34:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By lippo:
The AR15 or M16 zero's at 25 meters, not yards. The 25 meter zero is also the 300 meter zero. In high power competition shooting, you'll zero your AR at 200 yards, then get a zero for 300 yards and 600 yards. You'll figure out these three zeros and will write them in your log book, so you'll know how many clicks it's going to take to hit the 10 ring the first time out at the different firing lines. If you use a M1A for high power competition, you'll shoot to find these three same zeros for your rifle.

The military always uses meters now and civilians always use yards it seems.

As for .308 and .30-06, they are usually zeroed at 200 yards or 200 meters, depending on which you want to use. Most .308 battle rifles, like the fal, start their rear sights at 200 yards, as in the L1A1, or at 200 meters at in the G1 FAL. For M1 Garands, most find their zeros for each 100 yards, then mark it down in a log book. You might even find some rifleman that place marks on their rear sights to where certain zeros are.

And with a lot of bullet drop compensated scopes, you'll zero at 200 yards or meters.

Leading to, if you really want to find out where your rifle shoots, write your shots down in a log book with where the sights are set at.



Unfortunately, the longest range I can find around here is 100 yards, which is why I was wondering about the short distance zero for the .308 and .30-06.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 6:59:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/4/2004 7:00:41 PM EST by FLAL1A]

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Unfortunately, the longest range I can find around here is 100 yards, which is why I was wondering about the short distance zero for the .308 and .30-06.



Larry, PM me. If I correctly recall you as a resident of Savannah, I am close enough to make it worth your while to visit for a weekend - maybe an FDCC weekend. We can get to ranges out to 600 yds within an easy drive of my house, and watch cool movies with my sons, too!
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 7:02:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/4/2004 7:04:57 PM EST by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By lippo:

The AR15 or M16 zero's at 25 meters, not yards.




The Improved Battlesight Zero by LT. Col. Santose is at 50 YARDS and crosses over again at 200 meters.

It's a great zeroing method
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 7:07:31 PM EST
If you zero an AR at 25 meters, its gonna be way high at 300. I suggest the Santose Zero, adjust the rear sight so it will go 2 clicks below the 300 position, use the small aperture and zero at 50 yards. This will put you dead on at 50 and 200 yards, and dead on at 300 on the 300 position. Ops
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 7:24:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/4/2004 7:27:06 PM EST by five2one]

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Unfortunately, the longest range I can find around here is 100 yards, which is why I was wondering about the short distance zero for the .308 and .30-06.



Larry, PM me. If I correctly recall you as a resident of Savannah, I am close enough to make it worth your while to visit for a weekend - maybe an FDCC weekend. We can get to ranges out to 600 yds within an easy drive of my house, and watch cool movies with my sons, too!




I'm in Savannah too. Going to Richmond Hill DNR range thursday afternoon. Nice to know another arfcom guy is nearby.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 7:29:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By lippo:

The AR15 or M16 zero's at 25 meters, not yards.




The Improved Battlesight Zero by LT. Col. Santose is at 50 YARDS and crosses over again at 200 meters.

It's a great zeroing method



fight4yourrights. '......crosses over again at 200 meters' or you mean at 200 yards.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 7:30:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By lippo:

The AR15 or M16 zero's at 25 meters, not yards.




The Improved Battlesight Zero by LT. Col. Santose is at 50 YARDS and crosses over again at 200 meters.

It's a great zeroing method



Very cool! Thank you!
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 9:08:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Unfortunately, the longest range I can find around here is 100 yards, which is why I was wondering about the short distance zero for the .308 and .30-06.



Larry, PM me. If I correctly recall you as a resident of Savannah, I am close enough to make it worth your while to visit for a weekend - maybe an FDCC weekend. We can get to ranges out to 600 yds within an easy drive of my house, and watch cool movies with my sons, too!



I am moving back to Atlanta (Winder) in 3 weeks. I am on call this coming weekend, making a trip to Atlanta the next and the one after that, then I will be back up there.

Thanks for the invite, I may still take you up on it once I get back up there.

IIRC, you are in the panhandle somewhere?
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 9:10:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By five2one:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Unfortunately, the longest range I can find around here is 100 yards, which is why I was wondering about the short distance zero for the .308 and .30-06.



Larry, PM me. If I correctly recall you as a resident of Savannah, I am close enough to make it worth your while to visit for a weekend - maybe an FDCC weekend. We can get to ranges out to 600 yds within an easy drive of my house, and watch cool movies with my sons, too!




I'm in Savannah too. Going to Richmond Hill DNR range thursday afternoon. Nice to know another arfcom guy is nearby.



Great, now you show up. I am moving back to Atlanta in 3 weeks. What time you going to Richmond Hills on Thursday? I might not have to be at work until 2100 that day, so maybe we can meet there around 1300.

Link Posted: 5/5/2004 4:31:53 AM EST
I am only about 150 miles from you guys (till Larry moves to Atlanta). Whenever the mood strikes you, look me up. The range I have in mind is really a freat deal of fun. Excellent steel range for handguns, & on the 0 - 300 & the 600 yd range, you can shoot whatever guns and targets you want, as long as it isn't incendiary. Great shotgun ranges, too.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 4:42:47 AM EST
Try the Deteriorated Battlesight Zero!
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 4:44:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 4:45:47 AM EST by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By mojo:


fight4yourrights. '......crosses over again at 200 meters' or you mean at 200 yards.




No, I don't. 50 yards, 200 meters.


A 200 meter zero has the happy coincidence of an initial trajectory cross-over at 50 yards, a distance available on almost all civilian ranges including many indoor ranges. This makes it easy to achieve a 200 meter battlesight zero without recourse to surveying your own range. If 200 meters is available you can fine-tune the zero at the real distance. And should when you get the chance.


5. The lowest sight setting

Link Posted: 5/5/2004 4:59:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Ops:
If you zero an AR at 25 meters, its gonna be way high at 300. I suggest the Santose Zero, adjust the rear sight so it will go 2 clicks below the 300 position, use the small aperture and zero at 50 yards. This will put you dead on at 50 and 200 yards, and dead on at 300 on the 300 position. Ops



While I agree the santose zero is probably much more effective. An AR zeroed at 25 meters, using the L (long range sight) is zeroed at 300 mtrs as well, the bullet rises to the 25 mtr spot, continues to rise, and then gravity starts to win, and pulls it back down to zero at 300 mtrs. This is using a 55gr mil spec bullet at 3250 fps and a 20" barrell.

AT least the was what the -10 said last time I read it.

TXL
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 9:52:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By five2one:
I'm in Savannah too. Going to Richmond Hill DNR range thursday afternoon. Nice to know another arfcom guy is nearby.



Great, now you show up. I am moving back to Atlanta in 3 weeks. What time you going to Richmond Hills on Thursday? I might not have to be at work until 2100 that day, so maybe we can meet there around 1300.




I probably won't be there until 16:00. If you're there, I'll be there in a small blue pick-up. I'm a big bastard with longish brown hair and beard. If not, then maybe our paths will cross again.

John K.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 10:09:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By TxLewis:

While I agree the santose zero is probably much more effective. An AR zeroed at 25 meters, using the L (long range sight) is zeroed at 300 mtrs as well, the bullet rises to the 25 mtr spot, continues to rise, and then gravity starts to win, and pulls it back down to zero at 300 mtrs. This is using a 55gr mil spec bullet at 3250 fps and a 20" barrell.

AT least the was what the -10 said last time I read it.

TXL



The problem is that it shoots very high in between 25 and 300 meters, whereas the Santose zero is within 2" from 50 yds to 250 meters
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 11:25:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By TxLewis:
While I agree the santose zero is probably much more effective. An AR zeroed at 25 meters, using the L (long range sight) is zeroed at 300 mtrs as well, the bullet rises to the 25 mtr spot, continues to rise, and then gravity starts to win, and pulls it back down to zero at 300 mtrs. This is using a 55gr mil spec bullet at 3250 fps and a 20" barrell.

AT least the was what the -10 said last time I read it.

TXL



TXL I think you need to re read the -10

There is no 'L' aperture on the A2. For the A2 you are supposed to set the sight at 8/3+1 then zero at 25M. The Army said it would give you a 300M zero - but they were wrong (you should be setting it closer to '4'). Using the 8/3 +1 method puts the round a bit high at 300M. If you want to zero you're A2 for 300M use the USMC method and zero at 36 YARDS with the small aperture with the sight set to 8/3.

If you have an M16A1 you flip to 'L' and zero at 25M; this gives you a 375M zero. Flip back to the unmarked aperture and you have a 43M/250M zero (not too far off the Santose IBSZ).

The 50y/200M zero is the most flexible for most (non KD cometetive) shooters.

Back to LarryG's question. Larry. a Zero relies on many things they include:
1) Ballistics of the round (MV, BC, and weight of bullet).
2) Height over the bore of the sighting system
3) The max variance off the point of aim you will allow.

There is a 25M (also known as the 1000 inch) zero for the M1 and M14. IIRC that produced a 250y 'Battlesight Zero'.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 10:38:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By five2one:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By five2one:
I'm in Savannah too. Going to Richmond Hill DNR range thursday afternoon. Nice to know another arfcom guy is nearby.



Great, now you show up. I am moving back to Atlanta in 3 weeks. What time you going to Richmond Hills on Thursday? I might not have to be at work until 2100 that day, so maybe we can meet there around 1300.




I probably won't be there until 16:00. If you're there, I'll be there in a small blue pick-up. I'm a big bastard with longish brown hair and beard. If not, then maybe our paths will cross again.

John K.

Well, my schedule got changed, AGAIN. Now, I have to be in at 1500, instead of 2100.

Won't make it.
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