Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
PSA
Member Login

Site Notices
6/2/2020 2:34:59 PM
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 1/6/2005 10:24:23 PM EDT
I was asked a couple of times in a previous thread how a tomahawk could be used as a silent kill weapon.  So hear is the theory.

In silent killing you have several targets:  1.  Jugular and windpipe combo (various techniques)
                                                       2.  Cervical nerves/Occipital region (base of skull)    
                                                       3.  Lungs

Genaeral targets:  1.  Aorta (feeds blood from heart)
                        2.  Brachial Arteries  (middle of upper arm)
                        3.  Femoral arteries (middle of upper leg originating in groin area)
                        4.  See also silent targets

Almost all silent killing as I know it is taught with the knife.  There is also Rope/Garought and chokes/neckbreaks.  As far as the with the Tomahawk the ones used in Vietnam and possibly currently possess a chopping axe edge and a spike edge along with being nicely weighted for optimum cutting or cleaving.  My targets of choice with a tomahawk would be the Occipital region(with Axe edge) and the lungs (with the spike).  The cervical nerves when cut stop all body and motor funtion.  And obviously if you have a hole in your lungs you won't be screaming for help due to the large quantities of blood now filling them.  The problem with the lung techiques is you have to follow up quickly to limit the sentries movements or actions for the few seconds of life he has left.  You do not want your target raising alarms.

Let me know if anyone wants me to share further, or if those with experience here want to shoot holes in my theory please do.  I always welcome a learning opportunity in a topic of interest.

   
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 10:32:48 PM EDT
In reality, throat cutting more often results in the attacker getting injured than the target.  Attackers will carelessly cut themselves (wrists, forearms, etc.) instead of engaging the mark's neck.

Link Posted: 1/6/2005 10:36:53 PM EDT
interesting
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 10:38:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:
In reality, throat cutting more often results in the attacker getting injured than the target.  Attackers will carelessly cut themselves (wrists, forearms, etc.) instead of engaging the mark's neck.




I'm trying to focus on the tomahawk, do you want me to elaborate on the knife?  And yes your right!  Throat cutting is all Hollywood, they're several better techniques.  Should I elaborate or will this thread get locked???
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 10:39:27 PM EDT
well Im interestind if you go on.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 10:40:38 PM EDT
I'm sure many here have done some silent killing after having a big helping of beans.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 10:41:36 PM EDT
Bare with me  I am a moderate typer at best.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 10:43:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:
In reality, throat cutting more often results in the attacker getting injured than the target.  Attackers will carelessly cut themselves (wrists, forearms, etc.) instead of engaging the mark's neck.




I'm trying to focus on the tomahawk, do you want me to elaborate on the knife?  And yes your right!  Throat cutting is all Hollywood, they're several better techniques.  Should I elaborate or will this thread get locked???



I see the employment of the tomahawk in the same light as a blunt object.  A blow to the cranium with a ball bat would produce the same physical response (albeit not as deadly) as an axe, hatchet, or tomahawk would to the back of the head.

An immediate loss of consciousness would be the end result.  Whether and axe or bat was utilized would determine the grotesque demise.  
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 10:49:44 PM EDT
You watch too many movies.  

Killing is a *very* messy and noisy business, despite what you may have read on the internet.  People are tough, and instant incapacitation is almost impossible to achieve quickly, and almost never quietly.

Geez.


Link Posted: 1/6/2005 10:53:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:
In reality, throat cutting more often results in the attacker getting injured than the target.  Attackers will carelessly cut themselves (wrists, forearms, etc.) instead of engaging the mark's neck.




I'm trying to focus on the tomahawk, do you want me to elaborate on the knife?  And yes your right!  Throat cutting is all Hollywood, they're several better techniques.  Should I elaborate or will this thread get locked???



I see the employment of the tomahawk in the same light as a blunt object.  A blow to the cranium with a ball bat would produce the same physical response (albeit not as deadly) as an axe, hatchet, or tomahawk would to the back of the head.

An immediate loss of consciousness would be the end result.  Whether and axe or bat was utilized would determine the grotesque demise.  



+1..

also keep in mind that like the egg the human head is ovular shaped and has it's strongest points on the fontal lobe and just above the opcipital nerve cluster. A hawk would be very effective at the base of the skull and additionally to both sides of the head.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 10:57:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:
I'm sure many here have done some silent killing after having a big helping of beans.





I'm pretty sure that is about the extent of killing experience contributed by anyone on this thread so far. And even if they had (and obviously they have not) why would you be discussing it on an internet board? Amazing. Now I remember why I rarely come here anymore. What's the average age on here, 12?
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:07:29 PM EDT
My last kill was an eight-legged freak.  There was next to no sound involved.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:09:28 PM EDT
If you read this and attempt any of it you do so at your own risk and peril.  I am not responsible for any of your actions.  To choke someone unconcious can be a felony assault charge.  If you want to learn chokes extensively seek a credible Ju Jutsu or Judo instructor      

 NO WEAPON  2 techs.
Keys to a choke   1. Control the head   2.  Minimal force is required to actually choke

Chokes are dangerous Do not attempt them in an unsupervised unsafe manner.    

Sleeper choke drop=  First of a sleeper choke is a Carotid artery choke.  Pressure is applied from the sides of the neck with the forearm and Bicep.  DONE PROPERLY THEIR IS NO PULLING OR JERKING INVOLVED.  1.  apply arm around neck, bicep on one side forearm on the other.  2.  place choking arm hand in opposite bicep.  3.  Apply pressure by squeezing choking arm (wrist towards shoulder) then afterwards push forward with non-choking arm.  Should show effect within 3 seconds if done properly.  After all this while holding your opponents head secuerley kick your feet backwards and land on your belly.

Jugular crush=  This is a WRIST CHOKE.  From behind place the choking arm around opponent at a flat 90 degree angle.  2.  Line choking wrist (just behind where the thumb starts, base of hand) with the spot where the trachea and neck muscles meet on the neck.  3.  With opponent tightly held  close both hands together(L-Pattern).  4.  Simply bending the choking arms wrist inward should apply the choke.  The original technique applied with massive force crushes the Jugular.

BREAKING THE NECK

The neck is most easily broken by a shrp pull at a 45degree angle.  It does not take near the force you would think.  Start from the sleeper choke poition and a quick pull at a 45 can do the trick.

If the thread stays active I'll post more sometime in the next couple of days.        
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:10:00 PM EDT
Whats the spot of the skull that supposed to be fatal with a hard hit?
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:11:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taxman:
Whats the spot of the skull that supposed to be fatal with a hard hit?




On humans or klingons?
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:11:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By Taxman:
Whats the spot of the skull that supposed to be fatal with a hard hit?




On humans or klingons?



Humans seriously.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:13:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taxman:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By Taxman:
Whats the spot of the skull that supposed to be fatal with a hard hit?




On humans or klingons?



Humans seriously.



Sorry, can't help you. I've only trained for klingons.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:14:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By Taxman:
Whats the spot of the skull that supposed to be fatal with a hard hit?






Sorry, can't help you. I've only trained for klingons.




I was wondering becuase I have knocked the hell out of myslef in several places I heard was fatal and Im still here
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:15:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sharky375:

Originally Posted By bastiat:
I'm sure many here have done some silent killing after having a big helping of beans.



I'm pretty sure that is about the extent of killing experience contributed by anyone on this thread so far. And even if they had (and obviously they have not) why would you be discussing it on an internet board? Amazing. Now I remember why I rarely come here anymore. What's the average age on here, 12?



I bet you're an expert.  Go get 'em killer!
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:19:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:
Sleeper choke drop=    



I thought that was the one where you snuck up behind the mark, placed your forearm under their chin, struck them in the kidney region (with palm during practice, knife in reality) then dropped straight down on your stomach.  This action snaps the neck.

Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:20:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taxman:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By Taxman:
Whats the spot of the skull that supposed to be fatal with a hard hit?




On humans or klingons?



Humans seriously.



Base O da Skull.  The cervical Nerves control motor function if severed the spine is severed (No Motion in the body afterwards) Remember the old mob movies a nail in the top of the neck/base of the skull.  I have also been told sniper are told often to shoot through the teeth to hit this target.  No running away, no flailing limbs to make noise, less chance of involuntary squeeze of the trigger, and muscular failure in the target.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:21:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By Mattl:
Sleeper choke drop=    



I thought that was the one where you snuck up behind the mark, placed your forearm under their chin, struck them in the kidney region (with palm during practice, knife in reality) then dropped straight down on your stomach.  This action snaps the neck.




Without the knife!!!
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:22:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Base O da Skull.  The cervical Nerves control motor function if severed the spine is severed (No Motion in the body afterwards) Remember the old mob movies a nail in the top of the neck/base of the skull.  I have also been told sniper are told often to shoot through the teeth to hit this target.  No running away, no flailing limbs to make noise, less chance of involuntary squeeze of the trigger, and muscular failure in the target.




All that is doing is givng me a headache, how hard of a hit does it take, or is a blade necessary.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:23:18 PM EDT
Samurai Sword to neck.

No screaming.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:23:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By Sharky375:

Originally Posted By bastiat:
I'm sure many here have done some silent killing after having a big helping of beans.



I'm pretty sure that is about the extent of killing experience contributed by anyone on this thread so far. And even if they had (and obviously they have not) why would you be discussing it on an internet board? Amazing. Now I remember why I rarely come here anymore. What's the average age on here, 12?



I bet you're an expert.  Go get 'em killer!



+1 don't like Don't read it.  US ARMY FM 21-150 Hand to Hand Combat manual as a largest source.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:25:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By Mattl:
Sleeper choke drop=    



I thought that was the one where you snuck up behind the mark, placed your forearm under their chin, struck them in the kidney region (with palm during practice, knife in reality) then dropped straight down on your stomach.  This action snaps the neck.




Without the knife!!!



In the military they told us to hit the kidney region with our bayonet.  When we practiced this, the mark would keep his left arm vertical, with his left hand about mouth level.  The attacker would strike, using his palm, and drop to the ground on his stomach.

Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:26:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taxman:

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Base O da Skull.  The cervical Nerves control motor function if severed the spine is severed (No Motion in the body afterwards) Remember the old mob movies a nail in the top of the neck/base of the skull.  I have also been told sniper are told often to shoot through the teeth to hit this target.  No running away, no flailing limbs to make noise, less chance of involuntary squeeze of the trigger, and muscular failure in the target.




All that is doing is givng me a headache, how hard of a hit does it take, or is a blade necessary.



A dagger or large nail is sufficient.  I am told an elbow in a downward motion can kill but for most of us a strike will only render someone unconcios.  DONKEY PUNCH!  
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:27:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:
In reality, throat cutting more often results in the attacker getting injured than the target.  Attackers will carelessly cut themselves (wrists, forearms, etc.) instead of engaging the mark's neck.




I'm trying to focus on the tomahawk, do you want me to elaborate on the knife?  And yes your right!  Throat cutting is all Hollywood, they're several better techniques.  Should I elaborate or will this thread get locked???



please elaborate, for educations sake.  I tried cutting a deer's throat once, and a sheeps. It's farkin' harder than it looks.  And absolutely ZERO fun.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:30:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By Mattl:
Sleeper choke drop=    



I thought that was the one where you snuck up behind the mark, placed your forearm under their chin, struck them in the kidney region (with palm during practice, knife in reality) then dropped straight down on your stomach.  This action snaps the neck.




Without the knife!!!



In the military they told us to hit the kidney region with our bayonet.  When we practiced this, the mark would keep his left arm vertical, with his left hand about mouth level.  The attacker would strike, using his palm, and drop to the ground on his stomach.




You're overthinking it trust the technique works by elongating the spine and seperating or cracking vertebrae.  Think of it as a violent neck crank.  And forget the knife same principle, different technique.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:36:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By Sharky375:

Originally Posted By bastiat:
I'm sure many here have done some silent killing after having a big helping of beans.



I'm pretty sure that is about the extent of killing experience contributed by anyone on this thread so far. And even if they had (and obviously they have not) why would you be discussing it on an internet board? Amazing. Now I remember why I rarely come here anymore. What's the average age on here, 12?



I bet you're an expert.  Go get 'em killer!




Naaah......I'll leave the killin to the experts here. You operators/ninjas seem to have it well in hand. Please dont hurt me while I roll on back over to SOCNET.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:44:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sharky375:

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By Sharky375:

Originally Posted By bastiat:
I'm sure many here have done some silent killing after having a big helping of beans.



I'm pretty sure that is about the extent of killing experience contributed by anyone on this thread so far. And even if they had (and obviously they have not) why would you be discussing it on an internet board? Amazing. Now I remember why I rarely come here anymore. What's the average age on here, 12?



I bet you're an expert.  Go get 'em killer!




Naaah......I'll leave the killin to the experts here. You operators/ninjas seem to have it well in hand. Please dont hurt me while I roll on back over to SOCNET.



Whats next Cyanide chimes in???   I am sure their are other threads to attract your interesy sharky.  
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:52:48 PM EDT
Medula Oblongata.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 12:03:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sharky375:

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By Sharky375:

Originally Posted By bastiat:
I'm sure many here have done some silent killing after having a big helping of beans.



I'm pretty sure that is about the extent of killing experience contributed by anyone on this thread so far. And even if they had (and obviously they have not) why would you be discussing it on an internet board? Amazing. Now I remember why I rarely come here anymore. What's the average age on here, 12?



I bet you're an expert.  Go get 'em killer!




Naaah......I'll leave the killin to the experts here. You operators/ninjas seem to have it well in hand. Please dont hurt me while I roll on back over to SOCNET.



You do that CAG boy.

Link Posted: 1/7/2005 3:33:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By Sharky375:

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By Sharky375:

Originally Posted By bastiat:
I'm sure many here have done some silent killing after having a big helping of beans.



I'm pretty sure that is about the extent of killing experience contributed by anyone on this thread so far. And even if they had (and obviously they have not) why would you be discussing it on an internet board? Amazing. Now I remember why I rarely come here anymore. What's the average age on here, 12?



I bet you're an expert.  Go get 'em killer!




Naaah......I'll leave the killin to the experts here. You operators/ninjas seem to have it well in hand. Please dont hurt me while I roll on back over to SOCNET.



You do that CAG boy.




Neck breaking, cleaving heads off and when someone who has done probably a bit more than your average armchairDELTAcommando over here, he gets ridiculed....


Link Posted: 1/7/2005 5:24:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By Mattl:
Sleeper choke drop=    



I thought that was the one where you snuck up behind the mark, placed your forearm under their chin, struck them in the kidney region (with palm during practice, knife in reality) then dropped straight down on your stomach.  This action snaps the neck.




Without the knife!!!



In the military they told us to hit the kidney region with our bayonet.  When we practiced this, the mark would keep his left arm vertical, with his left hand about mouth level.  The attacker would strike, using his palm, and drop to the ground on his stomach.




Yes, I am surprised it took this long for someone to mention the kidney technique.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 5:25:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By crashburnrepeat:

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:
In reality, throat cutting more often results in the attacker getting injured than the target.  Attackers will carelessly cut themselves (wrists, forearms, etc.) instead of engaging the mark's neck.




I'm trying to focus on the tomahawk, do you want me to elaborate on the knife?  And yes your right!  Throat cutting is all Hollywood, they're several better techniques.  Should I elaborate or will this thread get locked???



please elaborate, for educations sake.  I tried cutting a deer's throat once, and a sheeps. It's farkin' harder than it looks.  And absolutely ZERO fun.



Yes it is.  Cartilidge is tougher than many think.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 5:44:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Taxman:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By Taxman:
Whats the spot of the skull that supposed to be fatal with a hard hit?




On humans or klingons?



Humans seriously.



Base O da Skull.  The cervical Nerves control motor function if severed the spine is severed (No Motion in the body afterwards) Remember the old mob movies a nail in the top of the neck/base of the skull.  I have also been told sniper are told often to shoot through the teeth to hit this target.  No running away, no flailing limbs to make noise, less chance of involuntary squeeze of the trigger, and muscular failure in the target.



Yeah, when I went to sniper school they taught us to aim for the teeth.  Works better on the clean crooks- you can see those pearly whites even in low light

Looks like someone got ahold of "How to Kill Vol. I" and stayed home from school to play on the computer.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 5:51:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2005 5:55:27 AM EDT by QuietShootr]

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:
In reality, throat cutting more often results in the attacker getting injured than the target.  Attackers will carelessly cut themselves (wrists, forearms, etc.) instead of engaging the mark's neck.




+1 and a .... Sin_Bin, you should head over to SOCNET and say hi.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 6:04:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2005 6:05:35 AM EDT by ODA_564]
Otherwise normal people whose line of work has actually required them to do these things don't discuss them like they are in the locker-room after the game.

They did it because they had to do it.

When "the mark" voids his or her's bowels and bladder and the fear / death stink is right 'your' nostrils its not an academic exercise or a 'thrill' (unless you're a sociopath).  Especially when its some poor dumb bastard that didn't want to be there and was thinking about his sweetheart and family just moments before (this caveat does not apply to willing thugs - some garbage needs taking out).

Dead people are not pixels in a video game.

Sociopathic 'stone killers' are not highly regarded in combat units.  Nor do combat soldiers seek out killing (it has a way of not working out) - its their business, not their pleasure.  



Link Posted: 1/7/2005 6:19:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 6:32:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jmoffatt:
Medula Oblongata.



Zenyatta Mondatta
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:00:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sukebe:

Originally Posted By jmoffatt:
Medula Oblongata.



Zenyatta Mondatta



Hakuna Matata

Seriously, killing is not silent, although in Mattl's case, the screams would not be heard because his head is in his rectum.  I find it astounding that this is even a topic of theoretical discussion.  If I am ever in the position where I actually need to send someone to meet his maker, the need for quiet is not an issue, because it will be in self-defense, or in defense of my family, and so it should be with us all.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:21:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ODA_564:

Dead people are not pixels in a video game.

Sociopathic 'stone killers' are not highly regarded in combat units.  Nor do combat soldiers seek out killing (it has a way of not working out) - its their business, not their pleasure.  


+1
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:39:25 AM EDT
This thread should be moved to the self defense forum.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 12:22:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2005 12:33:06 PM EDT by napalm]

Originally Posted By Sharky375:

Originally Posted By bastiat:
I'm sure many here have done some silent killing after having a big helping of beans.





I'm pretty sure that is about the extent of killing experience contributed by anyone on this thread so far. And even if they had (and obviously they have not) why would you be discussing it on an internet board? Amazing. Now I remember why I rarely come here anymore. What's the average age on here, 12?




'Rarely come here anymore?' It looks like you rarely came here in the first place.

Link Posted: 1/7/2005 5:24:34 PM EDT
I lurk. Dont post much. I'm sure you can see why.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 7:44:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sharky375:
I lurk. Dont post much. I'm sure you can see why.




True. Then again maybe if folks like you posted more and had more input the forums here would be more to your liking. Let these guys have their fun though; I'm sure no one takes these guys seriously in this anyhow.


Besides, it's not like they go over to SOCNET and shit on your threads. Or do they?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 8:10:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:
In silent killing you have several targets:  1.  Jugular and windpipe combo (various techniques)
                                                       2.  Cervical nerves/Occipital region (base of skull)    
                                                       3.  Lungs



I disagree with lung injuries being a silent way of killing someone.  Even with several stab wounds to both chest cavities a person can still breath and scream until the lungs collapse.  

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 8:19:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 9:36:49 AM EDT by TheRedHorseman]
ignore me I know nothing
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 9:55:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
ignore me I know nothing




OT: Did you know that your safes hump faster in Firefox than they do in Internet Exploder?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 10:02:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By napalm:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
ignore me I know nothing




OT: Did you know that your safes hump faster in Firefox than they do in Internet Exploder?



I was just  thinking that!!!
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top