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Posted: 12/16/2014 12:07:04 AM EST
I'm betting these have been asked a zillion times, but I spent an hour searching the internet and didn't really find an answer.

I started SS about 3 weeks ago, But I'm really not progressing at a rate given in the book for a novice. Should I keep trying to add weight each time and possibly not finish all the sets/reps? Or am I better off to miss an increase and keep the volume?

I am 39 years old, was 193lbs when I started and now closer to 198, so put on a few pounds by trying to keep a caloric excess.

Squats started at 200 and are now at about 227, haven't moved for a week. This is 5x3 weights
Bench started at 135 and is now 145 for 5x3
Deads are the same as squats, but I cracked a rib last week and haven't even tried them or the bench since last Wednesday.

So even with my cracked rib, which I don't think is contributing to missing my squat progression, I'm trying to work out 3x/week and I'm able to add weights, but not get the full 5x3. Tonight I was able to squat last week's progression 4x3, and was also able to increase OHP but missed all the sets/reps.


Thanks-
Link Posted: 12/16/2014 12:40:36 AM EST
From the Wiki

Stalling, Resetting and ProgressingMy <insert exercise> is stuck now, and it won't go up. Why did I stall?

You will "stall" on some exercises faster than others. This is going to be a function of the following:

Experience with each exercise - if you have been benching for years or even months and you are only now deadlifting for the first time, you will stall on the bench long before you stall on the deadlift, unless you make enormous weight jumps on the deadlift. This is the most typical "reason" for the bench stalling so soon.Mechanical Complexity of each exercise - the mechanical complexity of the squat is far greater than that of the bench press. You have far more going on in each of the involved joints with the squat than with the bench press. As a result, you will hit a wall on the bench press before the squat.Musculature involved with each exercise - You use far more musculature in the deadlift and squat when compared to the press. This means that you have a larger host of potential weak points in the deadlift and squat that gets fixed with training. As your weak points get stronger, your lift will get stronger, so you will "stall" later in the program on this exercise because you have a greater # of potential weak points to address (and improve). The press is much easier to perform properly, so technique will be a limiting factor for a much shorter period of time.Total "upper limit" of the exercise - this is a function of the musculature and complexity of the exercise. The more you can POSSIBLY lift on an exercise, the longer it will take to reach your genetic potential, and thus the longer it'll take before you actually stall. Generally, your strength will be as follows, from strongest to weakest (once you are "fully and proportionately developed")

Deadlift > Squat > Bench press/power clean > Standing press

Compare your strength to the strength standards table (The Strength Standard Tables are only an approximation. You might look at it and say, “Hey, this says I'm intermediate,” calm down, you're probably still a beginner.)

What this means is that, once you are "fully and proportionately developed", assuming you don't have any type of injuries, oddities in your structure (i.e. super-short, stumpy arms; very small hands/weak grip; genetic deformity/malformation of your spine, etc), or problems with your mindset (i.e. you're a pussy who is afraid to squat or deadlift), your deadlift will end up being your strongest exercise relative to the others, and your standing press will be the weakest.

Now that you can recognize that it is normal for your presses and rows to stall before you deads and squats, you must determine WHY you are stalling.

There are 4 different reasons for stalling, in addition to the basic guidelines above. Rip mentions 2 of them in Practical Programming, I'm going to expand that to 4 due to the questions I've seen asked via the internet.

Are you stalling because:

You aren't doing what you are supposed to be doing for recovery. This includes dietary considerations (enough protein/carbs/fats? Enough vitamins? Enough water? Skipping meals or eating every 2-4 hours?) as well as rest considerations (go to sleep at 10 PM or 1 AM with an 8 AM class that morning?)You aren't adding weight properly. Yes, I'm talking to you greedy bastards who decide that you can jump 10 lbs between bench workouts, or you decide to add a 25 to each side of the bar for your next squat workout.You have recently added exercises (such as dips/chins/arm work) or made your own adjustments to the program in whatever manner.You are doing everything right WRT rest, recovery and weight progression, but you are simply advancing closer to your genetic limitations.

1 is easy to fix. Get your ass to sleep on time, eat properly. Don't change anything about your training for at least a week until you have made 100% sure that you got your 8 hours of sleep, and that you ate your necessary calories EVERYDAY, didn't skip meals, got proper protein/carbs/fats during the day and at crucial times (especially post-workout, breakfast, and before bed). You screwed yourself on this one, but this one is easy to fix. Fix it and progress as normal until #4 describes you.

2 is easy to fix as well. Drop 5 lbs on your presses and rows (and cleans, drop 10 lbs on your squat and deadlift, and start back up. This time, however, be sure to only add 5 for presses/rows/cleans, and add 10 for squats and deadlifts. This will USUALLY fix the issue, depending upon how rapidly you added the weight. A problem exists when you were adding weight to exercises that you had no business adding weight to. We'll get to you folks in a moment, because you may have induced overtraining (systemic overtraining, not "biceps overtraining" or "pectoral overtraining", both of which are misnomers)

3 is usually pretty easy to fix as well. Stop EVERYTHING, strip back to the basic 3 exercises for the day, add a set or three of abdominal work, and THAT IS IT. Make sure you have #1 above in line, and train for a few weeks with only the basic 3 and the ab work. You greedy bastards were CONVINCED that 10 sets of barbell curls and triceps pressdowns wouldn't hurt, and instead of the big gunz and the bicep peak, you got your asses buried! Good for you. Listen next time ya damn teenage know-it-all! ;) (Yes, I was a teenage know-it-all.) (Hell, I'm a middle-aged know-it-all...nothing's changed, I'm just older and fatter!)

4 is a "true stall". In other words, you are a coach's dream because you listened, did exactly what you were told, put forth full effort and intensity, you took your training (and especially your recovery/rest/nutrition) seriously, and yet you still hit the inevitable wall. See the questions regarding stalling and resetting.That's right, a legitimate stall is a hallmark of progress. Ironic, no?

Link Posted: 12/16/2014 12:45:21 AM EST
There is something in there about reseting, I can't remember.

You may have started to high.

It could be form issues, you may need to drop the weight down and really make sure you are doing the exercise correctly.
Link Posted: 12/16/2014 5:21:41 AM EST
I wouldn't use SS. I would follow the advanced novice program in Practical Programming instead.

Lower squats to 150 to 170 to start, keep the other weights the same. Make sure your form is good.

Add 5 -10 pounds per week, start at 10 pounds per week to start. As you get higher weights only add 5 pounds per week.

Practical Programming Advanced Novice

Week A
Monday
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
Back Extension
Chin-ups: 3 sets for reps or add weight if completing more than 15 reps

Wednesday
3x5 Squat (lighter weight, use 80% of Monday's) OR 3x3 front squats
3x5 Press
1x5 Deadlift

Friday
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
Back Extension
Chin Up

Week B
Monday
3x5 Squat
3x5 Press
Power Clean

Wednesday
3x5 Squat (lighter weight, use 80% of Monday's) OR 3x3 front squats
3x5 Bench Press
Back extension
Chin Up

Friday
3x5 Squat
3x5 Press
Deadlift
Link Posted: 12/16/2014 8:01:04 AM EST
You started your weights to high, and you're not a teenager like SS is geared towards. IIRC you're supposed to start with just the bar.

Knock 25% off your weights and go at it again, adding only the prescribed amount each session.
Link Posted: 12/16/2014 10:26:15 AM EST
thanks gents, I'll drop the weight down and keep going again.

Any reason to drop it so far? It seems like a longs ways back down, but It's likely a really good idea right now anyway because although I didn't think squats were hurting my rib, it's really hurting and somewhat swollen this morning. It hurts to pull on my socks, so dead lifts are still out for a while.
Link Posted: 12/16/2014 10:53:11 AM EST
If its hurting that bad take some time off. No use making it worse.

As for dropping the weights that far, when you're adding 10#s every workout it won't take long at all to be far ahead of where you are now. The program is designed for progression, even if its 10 steps back and 11 steps forward you're still getting stronger.
Link Posted: 12/16/2014 10:54:07 AM EST
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Originally Posted By GUNGUY148:
You started your weights to high, and you're not a teenager like SS is geared towards. IIRC you're supposed to start with just the bar.

Knock 25% off your weights and go at it again, adding only the prescribed amount each session.
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Originally Posted By GUNGUY148:
You started your weights to high, and you're not a teenager like SS is geared towards. IIRC you're supposed to start with just the bar.

Knock 25% off your weights and go at it again, adding only the prescribed amount each session.


That's Stronglifts procedure.

Originally Posted By SCW:
thanks gents, I'll drop the weight down and keep going again.

Any reason to drop it so far? It seems like a longs ways back down, but It's likely a really good idea right now anyway because although I didn't think squats were hurting my rib, it's really hurting and somewhat swollen this morning. It hurts to pull on my socks, so dead lifts are still out for a while.


Normal SS protocol adds 15lbs per week to the squat, 60lbs per month. That's fast progression. Back it off to the intermediate and you're still getting 10lbs per week/40 per month. Better to start a little lower and keep progressing rather than stall right away.
Link Posted: 12/16/2014 5:34:07 PM EST
A few of things....

How is your sleep? recovery includes rest as well as caloric surplus.

How serious is the injury? how does impact range of motion? Might need some lighter work while it heals. It will also impact your recovery overall.

What other injuries do you have, if any, that would impact your performance?

Did you posy anythning on the Starting Strength forums? NOT Rip's Q&A...you'll get shredded!

Look at the coaches forum or Andy Baker's forum. There is also a separate forum on injuries.

http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/forum.php
Link Posted: 12/16/2014 7:05:52 PM EST
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Originally Posted By sirostac:
A few of things....

How is your sleep? recovery includes rest as well as caloric surplus.

How serious is the injury? how does impact range of motion? Might need some lighter work while it heals. It will also impact your recovery overall.

What other injuries do you have, if any, that would impact your performance?

Did you posy anythning on the Starting Strength forums? NOT Rip's Q&A...you'll get shredded!

Look at the coaches forum or Andy Baker's forum. There is also a separate forum on injuries.

http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/forum.php
View Quote



Sleep is crappy lately, the rib makes it harder to sleep well.
It's just a cracked rib, so not a really significant injury just annoying. After trying to squat last night it was a bit swollen and more tender, but other than pushing and pulling with the left arm I have full mobility and function. No other injuries.

I didn't post anywhere else, there are a lot of people here who are pretty knowledgeable about this stuff so I just posted here. I'm going to take the rest of the week off and try again on monday with reduced weight, 170lbs sounds pretty easy but I'll just take it for granted that I don't know what the hell I'm doing and listen to some advice.

Just for fun- Here is the time and place of the injury. If the camera timer had gone just a few seconds sooner I'd have a really cool photo of me flying through the air and landing on my head and shoulder. Glad the ice was a foot thick, I wouldn't have made it if I'd gone under right then. Not sure my son would have made it out either.


Link Posted: 12/16/2014 7:10:37 PM EST
A little trick that can help you break through a mental barrier is to do one over rep. You add 20 lbs to the bar more than your work load. Then you do one rep. After that the other weight should feel easy.
Link Posted: 12/16/2014 10:30:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By SCW:



Sleep is crappy lately, the rib makes it harder to sleep well.
It's just a cracked rib, so not a really significant injury just annoying. After trying to squat last night it was a bit swollen and more tender, but other than pushing and pulling with the left arm I have full mobility and function. No other injuries.

I didn't post anywhere else, there are a lot of people here who are pretty knowledgeable about this stuff so I just posted here. I'm going to take the rest of the week off and try again on monday with reduced weight, 170lbs sounds pretty easy but I'll just take it for granted that I don't know what the hell I'm doing and listen to some advice.

Just for fun- Here is the time and place of the injury. If the camera timer had gone just a few seconds sooner I'd have a really cool photo of me flying through the air and landing on my head and shoulder. Glad the ice was a foot thick, I wouldn't have made it if I'd gone under right then. Not sure my son would have made it out either.

<a href="http://s981.photobucket.com/user/SCW-Shooter/media/2FF25029-E127-4D87-BC2F-CB92B208B459.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae294/SCW-Shooter/2FF25029-E127-4D87-BC2F-CB92B208B459.jpg</a>
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Originally Posted By SCW:
Originally Posted By sirostac:
A few of things....

How is your sleep? recovery includes rest as well as caloric surplus.

How serious is the injury? how does impact range of motion? Might need some lighter work while it heals. It will also impact your recovery overall.

What other injuries do you have, if any, that would impact your performance?

Did you posy anythning on the Starting Strength forums? NOT Rip's Q&A...you'll get shredded!

Look at the coaches forum or Andy Baker's forum. There is also a separate forum on injuries.

http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/forum.php



Sleep is crappy lately, the rib makes it harder to sleep well.
It's just a cracked rib, so not a really significant injury just annoying. After trying to squat last night it was a bit swollen and more tender, but other than pushing and pulling with the left arm I have full mobility and function. No other injuries.

I didn't post anywhere else, there are a lot of people here who are pretty knowledgeable about this stuff so I just posted here. I'm going to take the rest of the week off and try again on monday with reduced weight, 170lbs sounds pretty easy but I'll just take it for granted that I don't know what the hell I'm doing and listen to some advice.

Just for fun- Here is the time and place of the injury. If the camera timer had gone just a few seconds sooner I'd have a really cool photo of me flying through the air and landing on my head and shoulder. Glad the ice was a foot thick, I wouldn't have made it if I'd gone under right then. Not sure my son would have made it out either.

<a href="http://s981.photobucket.com/user/SCW-Shooter/media/2FF25029-E127-4D87-BC2F-CB92B208B459.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae294/SCW-Shooter/2FF25029-E127-4D87-BC2F-CB92B208B459.jpg</a>


That could have been ugly!
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 11:59:47 AM EST
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Originally Posted By SCW:



Sleep is crappy lately, the rib makes it harder to sleep well.
It's just a cracked rib, so not a really significant injury just annoying. After trying to squat last night it was a bit swollen and more tender, but other than pushing and pulling with the left arm I have full mobility and function. No other injuries.

I didn't post anywhere else, there are a lot of people here who are pretty knowledgeable about this stuff so I just posted here. I'm going to take the rest of the week off and try again on monday with reduced weight, 170lbs sounds pretty easy but I'll just take it for granted that I don't know what the hell I'm doing and listen to some advice.

Just for fun- Here is the time and place of the injury. If the camera timer had gone just a few seconds sooner I'd have a really cool photo of me flying through the air and landing on my head and shoulder. Glad the ice was a foot thick, I wouldn't have made it if I'd gone under right then. Not sure my son would have made it out either.

<a href="http://s981.photobucket.com/user/SCW-Shooter/media/2FF25029-E127-4D87-BC2F-CB92B208B459.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae294/SCW-Shooter/2FF25029-E127-4D87-BC2F-CB92B208B459.jpg</a>
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Originally Posted By SCW:
Originally Posted By sirostac:
A few of things....

How is your sleep? recovery includes rest as well as caloric surplus.

How serious is the injury? how does impact range of motion? Might need some lighter work while it heals. It will also impact your recovery overall.

What other injuries do you have, if any, that would impact your performance?

Did you posy anythning on the Starting Strength forums? NOT Rip's Q&A...you'll get shredded!

Look at the coaches forum or Andy Baker's forum. There is also a separate forum on injuries.

http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/forum.php



Sleep is crappy lately, the rib makes it harder to sleep well.
It's just a cracked rib, so not a really significant injury just annoying. After trying to squat last night it was a bit swollen and more tender, but other than pushing and pulling with the left arm I have full mobility and function. No other injuries.

I didn't post anywhere else, there are a lot of people here who are pretty knowledgeable about this stuff so I just posted here. I'm going to take the rest of the week off and try again on monday with reduced weight, 170lbs sounds pretty easy but I'll just take it for granted that I don't know what the hell I'm doing and listen to some advice.

Just for fun- Here is the time and place of the injury. If the camera timer had gone just a few seconds sooner I'd have a really cool photo of me flying through the air and landing on my head and shoulder. Glad the ice was a foot thick, I wouldn't have made it if I'd gone under right then. Not sure my son would have made it out either.

<a href="http://s981.photobucket.com/user/SCW-Shooter/media/2FF25029-E127-4D87-BC2F-CB92B208B459.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae294/SCW-Shooter/2FF25029-E127-4D87-BC2F-CB92B208B459.jpg</a>



OP, where is this at?
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 12:13:09 PM EST
How long have your squats been stalled? Prior to your cracked rib?

I don't believe there's any way the cracked rib is NOT hurting your squats or bench.

Regardless of resetting, I would take time to let that heal.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 12:40:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By RatherBeLifting:
How long have your squats been stalled? Prior to your cracked rib?

I don't believe there's any way the cracked rib is NOT hurting your squats or bench.

Regardless of resetting, I would take time to let that heal.
View Quote


RBL- this post is a month old now, but I've re-set since then anyway. My squats and deads were the same weight and progressing at the same rate, so I found the SS wiki and there is a very nice and specific section about 'what if my squats and deadlifts are the same'. His suggestion was that it's one of five things-

1- not squatting deep enough
2- not squatting deep enough
3- not squatting deep enough
4- not squatting deep enough
5- not squatting deep enough

So I did some more research to see how deep I should be going and videoed myself a few times, realized that I'm not squatting deep enough and rolled back the weights a bit again, reset at 185lbs and squatted as deep as I could. Now I'm up to 215 going very deep, dead lifts are up to 277 as of this morning and all the lifts are still progressing on schedule.

And yeah, the rib had an effect, no question. It rarely hurts anymore although there is a lot of swelling between the ribs and slightly below them.... I'm sure it's not my belly chub, gotta be the rib. Gotta be.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 12:45:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 4:44:47 PM EST by SCW]
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Originally Posted By Zedhead:



OP, where is this at?
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Originally Posted By Zedhead:
Originally Posted By SCW:
Originally Posted By sirostac:
A few of things....

How is your sleep? recovery includes rest as well as caloric surplus.

How serious is the injury? how does impact range of motion? Might need some lighter work while it heals. It will also impact your recovery overall.

What other injuries do you have, if any, that would impact your performance?

Did you posy anythning on the Starting Strength forums? NOT Rip's Q&A...you'll get shredded!

Look at the coaches forum or Andy Baker's forum. There is also a separate forum on injuries.

http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/forum.php



Sleep is crappy lately, the rib makes it harder to sleep well.
It's just a cracked rib, so not a really significant injury just annoying. After trying to squat last night it was a bit swollen and more tender, but other than pushing and pulling with the left arm I have full mobility and function. No other injuries.

I didn't post anywhere else, there are a lot of people here who are pretty knowledgeable about this stuff so I just posted here. I'm going to take the rest of the week off and try again on monday with reduced weight, 170lbs sounds pretty easy but I'll just take it for granted that I don't know what the hell I'm doing and listen to some advice.

Just for fun- Here is the time and place of the injury. If the camera timer had gone just a few seconds sooner I'd have a really cool photo of me flying through the air and landing on my head and shoulder. Glad the ice was a foot thick, I wouldn't have made it if I'd gone under right then. Not sure my son would have made it out either.

<a href="http://s981.photobucket.com/user/SCW-Shooter/media/2FF25029-E127-4D87-BC2F-CB92B208B459.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae294/SCW-Shooter/2FF25029-E127-4D87-BC2F-CB92B208B459.jpg</a>



OP, where is this at?



Out between Beaver and Milford clear up on the top of those mountains west of the freeway, buried in some rocks. I'll create a post about it in GD and put a link here, it's pretty cool up there.


EDIT- post created- find it HERE
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