I live in an area where there isn't alot of ranges to choose from, so I tried to go to a new range today that I have never been to. It is close to my house. Me and my little brother go there today ( we both own Kimber 1911's). I walk in and set my gun down on the counter and the first thing the guy asks me is it loaded. I had the mag in it, but the chamber was empty. I took the mag out and apologized. I admitted my mistake and promised I would never do it again. The guy went on and on about how wrong I was and we came to the understanding of how wrong I was. I knew better and it was a complete slip-up on my part.I carry my gun for protection. Well, some ass-hole behind the counter starts screaming about how I need to go back outside and read the sign on the door and then come back in again. I let it go the first couple of times, but he kept it up and finally I said, "hey man, if I really need to go back out there and read that door, I'm not coming back in here!!"
I left and will never go back in there...

I should have known that place was full of ass-holes when I walked in and it was full of cops. Fucking pricks...

Not to be rude, but after you walked out, they might have refered to YOU as the A$$- Hole at the Range Today.

I am sure they have dealt with a lot of uneducated people who made the same mistake as you did. Whereas in your case it was an [b]innocent mistake[/b], other times it might have been an [b]ignorant mistake[/b]. It sounds like you just got lumped in with all the other people who made that mistake. The guy behind the counter sounds like a real jerk and probably really gets off on yelling at people any time he can.

If it's close to your house, and one of the more convenient ranges for you, you might try visiting again on a completely different day when the loudmouth guy might not be working. And, of course, follow all the rules. Don't let one bad experience ruin the chances that you might get to shoot more often. It's not worth it.

Plus, if you're young, a lot of older guys might really get their jollies scolding a young whipper-snapper like you.

You walk through a gun shop door with a magazine in your weapon around here and youll be lucky if you CAN walk out.

Edit: I see youre in LA too, what part? Im surprised all you got was yelled at.

[rolleyes][rolleyes]

I don't claim to or try to act like I know everything. I just believe this ass-hole didn't need to react like he did. And No, I will not give my business to someone who feels like he needs to vent his frustrations on his own customers. To say that his attitude was rude and brash would be an understatement. I tried to mend the situation while it was still at hand and the old fuck kept mixing it up.

Why did you put your Kimber on the counter in the first place?  I go to my local range all the time with my piece on my side, fully loaded.  I have to walk through the range house too.  No one there gives a shit unless I pull it out and start waving it at people.  Of course, that would be suicide. [:D]

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USP, you're absolutely right. I've gone into ranges like that before and everything was cool. I just don't own a holster for this one.

Hmmm...well, around these parts, if you walk in a gunshop without a magazine in the gun you'll get: " Hey....where's the magazine, dork??".
People around here rely on common sense rather than the State Code Annotated to get them thru the day.

That was pretty much my point. They treated me like I have never held a damned gun before. I was brought up around guns.

FCK him I wouldn't go back there either.

Yeah but those pricks know about range safety and got to shoot today. How about you?

I shot today at a range about 5 miles from there with people that were alot friendlier, cop.

I get a lot of that, even around here!

what exactly do you have against cops?

I guess you could have used a gangsta holster...placing it in your waist band.  I see people do that too with no grief from the range owners.  The guys at the range you went to sound like assholes who were showing off to each other.  Some jerks get off on trying to make others feel small.  Not a way to run a business.

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Look, I really don't have anything against police officers( despite all the times I've been harassed). It just seemed at the time when I walked in there that this particular range was more than less geared for the civil servant and not very understanding to the responsible gun owner.



That's it...I'm going on an all-donut diet from now on!!!!

Food for thought...

Last summer I worked part-time at a gunshop / indoor shooting range.

You'd be AMAZED at how many times a customer handed me a gun to inspect for trade-in, or malfunction, and was STILL LOADED.
I always asked politely first, then would check myself.
I was shocked at how many times a live round flew out of the chamber when I'd rack the slide to be sure it was empty.

Most common response was: "O-gee, I thought is was empty"

There is a .45cal hole in the ceiling of the store from a dumbass handing a loaded weapon to the store owner to inspect.


I'm not faulting you for the rude treatment by the shop owner, as it sounds like it could have been handled better on his part...

You goofed by putting the gun on the counter with the "appearence" of being loaded.
Everyone makes mistakes, and no need to nail you to the cross for it...

Look on the bright side, you left at your own will.
I've seen customers ordered out of the store at gunpoint already...

quote]Originally Posted By Womb-Raider

I shot today at a range about 5 miles from there with people that were alot friendlier, cop.[/quote]

Probably get harrased due to your great attitude, citizen.

Is it just me or is there another sin here?  Why wasn't the action locked open if the gun is unloaded?

took my gun in for a regular cleaning every year or so.  so i have it slung on my back with my black hawk sling and had a 30 round mag in hand (no rounds in it) so they could test fire it after they reasembled it.  so i hand the dude my rifle and then mag.  he looks at it and says "good its not loaded.  once we had a guy bring a fulley loaded mag in the store.  we charged him $42.50 for it."  

it was really odd.  guess it was a good thing i left my mag emty. lol

Yes, it is us citizens who throw our weight around as rookies and harass others with flashing lights, horns, citations and threats...

I didnt want to say it. He might think its harrasment.

NYC-M4, I already stated that when I brought the gun there and sat it down on the counter, the mag was loaded ( not the chamber), and the slide was forward.

And then there was this...



But to make a bad situation worse you add...



This is what I dont understand...




You said you fucked up, great. EVERYONE FUCKS UP. But, If you showed up with a Phillips screwdriver instead of a slotted, Yeah, the guy OVER-REACTED. But dude, you put a loaded gun on his counter and he doesnt know you from a hole in the earth and that is where this guy doesnt want to end up... in a HOLE IN THE EARTH.

I'll bet for sure that you will never do that again.

Now as far as the cop remarks go. I for one am not a cop and sure as hell wouldnt want to be one. But ease up on them regarding this topic. I dont see where ONE cop intervened and was a dick to you.

After reading this story, I can see how things went from bad to worse in a hurry.

First, the mag-in-gun on the counter...
This was BEFORE you went into the shooting range section, correct?
Why was the firearm not in a box, if you don't have a holster for it?

Second, you removed the magazine...
Did you also lock the slide back to show the empty chamber to everyone elses satisfaction?

Shitty attitudes and bad blood in the conversation didn't help from EITHER side of the counter.

What DID the sign say outside the door before entering the shop?

The way I see it, if you have been around firearms all your life, the gun would've been boxed and unloaded/mag out before you entered the shop.
That would've prevented the entire incident.
We've all made a mistake at one point.  Some day in the future you WILL be noticing others' possibly unsafe actions and should remind them of the safety rules.  
It's not necessary to start an ass-chewing like you got, however.  Friendly safety advice goes a long way to helping our cause.
You may go back there sometime after things have cooled down a bit and apologize AGAIN for your error and buy a pistolbox to use next time.
That might help put the entire incident in a better light, as it shows a little humility/humbleness on your part and that you are willing to show them you 'learned your lesson'.
I KNOW THAT'S DIFFICULT TO DO.  
It might be the BEST thing to do, though.

As for the remarks made toward the LEO's...
Do I sense a little hostility here?  
That, too, might be something to look into as far as understanding their side of the situation.
I wish you well in resolving both the safety issue and your perception of Law Enforcement Officers.

I have acknowledged my mistake on more than one level for entering the range with a mag in the gun. HOWEVER, I didn't feel it necessary for that ass-hole to start screaming at me...and continue it on after I appologized 7 times. And that is what my point is. I did not argue with him or try to defeat his will, he just kept condescending and insulting me...and that's what my point is...

True it could have been handled better by the range guy, but you really dont help your case with your comments and facts about what happened.
You screwed up, it happens no ones perfect.
Take it as a learning expierience.

And remember...
Support your local Police.

I can see one two or three verbal bashings there is a point where enough is enough. could the guy be a dickhead about it, probably. Maybe he didnt get laid last night or maybe he DID thats why he is pissy.



I think that is the best suggestion yet.

But dont let it eat you up inside...let it go, lesson learned. Arrogant people tear me up inside too, but hey THEY have to live with themselves everyday... you are LUCKY YOU DONT!

See, I'm a regular poet [;)]

Dear Range Owner,

I have decided that I must discontinue using your range.  Recreational shooting is supposed to be a fun and relaxing past-time.  However, I find that your range is anything but fun and I leave angry and worse off than after a day at the office.  If you would like to earn my and my friends' business back, please consider the following changes.

1.  Retire your range safety officer.  I can take care of myself.  If there are enough shooters on the line to require a safety officer, it's too crowded for my tastes and I will wait until someone leaves the range.  Further, I dislike waiting for shooters to finish putting up his target(s) using tape that lost it's stickyness sometime during the Carter administration.  (This is especially important if you charge by the hour for range use.)

2.  No rules regarding food and drink.  What's so bad about setting down my handgun, rifle, shotgun, or whatever and have my Mountain Dew or take a bite out of something??!  If spills are an issue, charge the one spilling for clean-up or ban them from your range.  If I spill, I will gladly suffer the consequences you deem fit.

3.  No prohibitions on rapid-fire.  I am not the clown that has a post-ban Mac-11, shoots it sideways, and sprays #$%@! everywhere.  Yes, I've got an evil preban AR-15, I'm under 30, and I occasionally feel like dumping a mag downrange.  I assure you that all of my shots will be on the paper.  If I'm shooting too fast to hit the paper, I slow down to a safe rate of fire that I can handle.  Should someone be shooting unsafely, it does not matter HOW they're firing; all that matters is that they're unsafe.  Eject them.

4.  I want room for me and my friends to shoot.  I want for us to be able to set up as we see fit and not be restricted in using targets.  Yes, we use tin cans and plastic bottles and pieces of metal.  No, we don't shatter glass, AOL cd's, or anything else that we can't easily police up along with ALL expended brass and garbage.  Should we leave any trash, feel free to charge a cleaning fee and/or ban us from your range.

5.  Respect.  I do not respect age; I respect wisdom.  The elderly individuals who continually give me and my friends disdainful and sometimes outright hostile looks do nothing to encourage me to spend more time [and money] at your range.  Furthermore, I would appreciate if I and my friends were not continually monitored for perceived safety violations.  Should you actually see an unsafe act, please feel free to eject me or my friends from the range.  Otherwise, please do not hover over our shoulders.  Our guns and magazines are legal, we are obeying ALL your rule of one shot per every other second maximum, and we are not using coarse language or disturbing other range patrons.  Please give us the respect we deserve; please end that respect if and only if we do something wrong to stop that respect.

I am sorry to have to bother you.  If you do decide to make some changes to your range, please do let me know and I and my friends will gladly return and patronize your range and facilities.  Otherwise, we will be somewhere out in the desert shooting for FREE.  While it will cost us more in gas to get there than it would be to use your range, at least we will actually be able to enjoy our sport.  

Sincerely,

A. Noyyed Shooter

Prebans, you are awesome...


Thanks guys, I have blown off some steam again. Although I don't think I'll be going there again.





Goodnight...

I was going to bed but decided to read on a couple of minutes and I'm glad I did. Thanks...

Actually, no you didn't.  If the slide had been locked open so the chamber was obviously empty this story takes on a whole new light.  

Edited to add:  Reread it one more time and saw the mag was loaded.  If the mag was loaded with the slide locked back, the situation was even more dangerous than I thought.

Ya know, even if he put a hot gun on the counter with the safety disengaged, his entire point seems to be that he didn't do it out of ignorance. Had he been ignorant, I can understand the range guy making him read the rules before he shoots. However, this seems to be a case where he was negligent. At that point, reading the rules is NOT for educational value, but instead punishment and humiliation. While I have yet to make such a mistake, I, for one, am tired of people at some of the local shooting ranges and gun stores acting like complete jerks.

Thanks, Johnphin.


Pretty much what I've been trying to say.

How is the gun store owner supposed to know if his mistake was out of ignorance or negligence?

By the discussion that followed the infraction?

Thank you...

I personally think that he may have reamed him for a second, maybe two, but after he had apologized, all should be good.  I personally walk into ranges with my weapon in a holster locked and loaded.  If I reach for it, I let the shop keeper know so that he doesn't think I'm gunnin' for him.  I have to agree with Johnphin though.  The keeper should have known if it was negligence or ignorance after the discussion which should not have been a tirade.  IMO.

Yeah Sherm , what can I say We Beez Juz A bunchan ignorant cintz down heahh!! Neva Handled a FI-Awmm B-4!!!

One more thing, walk back in there and take your apology back.

AMEN!!!     FUCKEM!!!

Wait a minute! Reading this thread got me ticked off. I don't know you, so I can't pass judgement. But let me go over the story as I see it... I'm not going to be politically correct and hold your hand and say the owner is "a bad man" like some of the posters here.

So, you go into this man's place of business without reading the sign(s) on the door and casually lay a loaded weapon on his counter.

The loaded weapon is noticed and cleared and apologies are made. Oh goody!

Now, you are in this man's place of business. This is his life..His paycheck that he pays his mortgage with, feeds his kids with, and pays his bills with, and you say "FUCKEM!!!"? He probably pays THOUSANDS of dollars each year for liability insurance. He has the ATF, Fire Marshall, Police, and the EPA (proper ventilation) looking up his ass for any violations..And you say "FUCKEM!!!"?

You say that you have been handling guns all your life? How is he supposed to know that when you walk in and make a bonehead mistake? How do you know that this guy wasn't just muzzle swept by a cop or two within the last 5 minutes? How do you know this guy hasn't been shot by accident by another guy who has been handling guns all his life too? You know NOTHING about this man other than he hurt your feelings by telling you to go out and read his sign. Boo fucking hoo! He wasn't denying you access to the range! He just wanted you to read his sign, then come back in, follow the rules,  and have fun shooting.

But, "FUCKEM!!!", right?

And when you left all pissed off, who lost? You did as I see it. You chose to not follow the rules and leave and go somewhere else. (Your perogative) Do you think it hurt him? Nope..But it sure pissed you off and got your goat..He got the best of you!

When I am at the range and someone sweeps me with their muzzle, they get an earfull. They deserve it. I really don't want to die because of some dumbass. Intentionally or accidently!! I'm a CCW Instructor in 2 states and when I am at the range playing Rangemaster with my students while they qualify, and I see someone do something grossly unsafe after we went through the safety rules a million times during class, they flunk! I send em home..See ya! No refund either. They screwed up and jeopardized my safety and the safety of the other students.

I won't tell you what to do as that is your decision. But I personally would be thanking that guy for a valuable lesson learned. Because I guarantee you won't do it again, right? He might have saved your life someday...

You may think I'm an asshole too, but that's ok because I calls em as I sees em...And as I see it, the shop owner was right. It wouldn't have killed you to go out and read the sign after his 1st request for you to do so. But, he had to tell you 7 times and you refused, but you had the time to apologize 7 times before you left.

Have fun with that Kimber...Nice weapon..

Be safe

We have one here in Phx too. I wont name any names, but they have locations on Camlback and one on Cave Creek that I know of. Just no possible knowledge of customer service. If I go into a fucking Mcdonalds and ask if a Big Mac has tomato, I dont wanna be scolded because it sais on the sign,"whats on a big mac" I want the fucker who I payin to explain it to me nicely. Every job I have ever worked was directly linked to customer service. Now I fix airplanes. If you were on that airplane and asked me what was wrong, what would you want me to say? Its a pice of shit airplane? NO of course not! ....I get it EVERY DAY!!! I give the customer a general understanding of what is broken and that we have it under control or fixed... Its as easy as that. Its not about the 5 dollars he was gonna spend at the range today and many more after that. Its about being nice to each other and realizing everyones faults and living with them. This could have been defused so many ways. But I salute you, take no shit from people just because they dont have the patience or are even willing to help you. Sounds to me like he didnt even want you in there to begin with.

One does not necessarily follow the other....